updated

[EskimoBob]

Code:

Symbol     2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21 2012.09.22 2012.09.23 2012.09.25    Change  7 days
CPA              52079      52079      52079      52079      50829      42500      -9579    -18,39%
BMF               5244       5347       5337       5337       4947       4598       -646    -12,32%
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606       1606       1606       1504       -107     -6,64%
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127       2127       2078       1847       -286    -13,41%
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434       3414       3383       3326       -154     -4,43%
YARR               290         80         80         80         63         63       -227    -78,28%
NYAN              1417       1417       1416       1416       1336        911       -506    -35,71%

Gain/loss from first day of trading (provided by assbot)

Code:

CPA [1@0.1BTC] paid: 0.00569688 BTC. Last price: 0.01 BTC. Capital gain: -0.09 BTC. Total: -0.08430312 BTC. (-84.3%)
BMF [1@1BTC] paid: 0.09810305 BTC. Last price: 0.4104 BTC. Capital gain: -0.5896 BTC. Total: -0.49149695 BTC. (-49.1%)
NYAN.A [1@1BTC] paid: 0.08 BTC. Last price: 1 BTC. Capital gain: 0 BTC. Total: 0.08 BTC. (8%)
NYAN.B [1@1BTC] paid: 0.14081227 BTC. Last price: 0.95 BTC. Capital gain: -0.05 BTC. Total: 0.09081227 BTC. (9.1%)
NYAN.C [1@1BTC] paid: 0.14837546 BTC. Last price: 0.09 BTC. Capital gain: -0.91 BTC. Total: -0.76162454 BTC. (-76.2%)
YARR [1@1.28BTC] paid: 0.37 BTC. Last price: 1 BTC. Capital gain: -0.28 BTC. Total: 0.09 BTC. (7%)
NYAN [1@1BTC] paid: 0.07637664 BTC. Last price: 0.945 BTC. Capital gain: -0.055 BTC. Total: 0.02137664 BTC. (2.1%)

Total gain, if you invested equal amount of coin to every "fond": -26.2%

[Bitcoin Oz]

Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

[bitcoinbear]

Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

How much of these funds were invested in OBSI.HRPT?

[Puppet]

Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

How much of these funds were invested in OBSI.HRPT?

looks like about 8000 shares direct exposure and.at least  a few thousand indirectly through other holdings like bmf.
www.tsukino.ca/cpa/nyan/

that's only obsi hrpt.  don't be shocked if the other obsi junk goes too.

[EskimoBob]

Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

How much of these funds were invested in OBSI.HRPT?

http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/nyan/

NYAN.A OBSI.1MHS   400   (price not updated)
NYAN.B OBSI.HRPT   5,367 (price not updated)
NYAN.C OBSI.HRPT   500   (price not updated)

Looks like it has not been updated for 9 days. This is obviously really convenient excuse to play dumb and shuffle that crap around.
Fact is, even A and B owners are exposed to "ponzy" grade junk.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Now it looks like OBSI-HRPT is shutting down :/

How much of these funds were invested in OBSI.HRPT?

http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/nyan/

NYAN.A OBSI.1MHS   400   (price not updated)
NYAN.B OBSI.HRPT   5,367 (price not updated)
NYAN.C OBSI.HRPT   500   (price not updated)

Looks like it has not been updated for 9 days. This is obviously really convenient excuse to play dumb and shuffle that crap around.
Fact is, even A and B owners are exposed to "ponzy" grade junk.

There is also 2200 HRPT in NYAN.A which I complained about before as they shouldnt qualify as a low risk fund security.

[Francesco]

I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

Looks like 600 coins of stock bought back. 7k USD isn't something I would sneeze at. I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed, but that is neither here nor there. I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue. I also agree that CPA should only be partially valued based upon NAV. This sort of metric works really well when looking at stock portfolios such as YABIF, but not so well when it comes to actual businesses.

Assets with minimal liquidity are pretty standard for this exchange. This is particularly true since the pirate induced credit shift and the faltering of mining with the ASIC switch.

I'd be most worried that having lost a ton on Pirate she's now trying to go double or bust on Obsi.  And her companies have more exposure to Obsi than she seems to realise (some of which, in fairness, wasn't her doing and is now unavoidable).  She seems to have confidence in OBSI.HRPT at a time when nearly everyone else in the market believes it's a Ponzi about to crash.  This smacks more of desperation to make a profit (for once), than of planned exposure to a properly assessed risk.

It's not desperation! The point is NYAN.C has right in its contact it will blindly "invest" in anything giving immediate profit, regardless of the worries it might be all gone tomorrow. So he/she wasn't having a special confidence in OBSI.HRPT, but buying them was the only way to truly follow the contract.
The problem with this is when A and B have losses too, and to make up for that, toxic assets make their way out of C to funds that should be clean of that junk.

[guruvan]

Now we're back to just insulting those who question your dubious accounting & definition of risk. No. That's not really how it works.

It's a huge red flag. Defensiveness always is....especially when it's so aggressive.

I will personally continue to state my opinions about your behavior and practices so that others might be aware, and do their own due diligence on the subjects. If at some time you change your accounting, or behavior, I will change my tune. I have no personal problem with you, but I see massive risk for investors in your accounting. You may think it's bullshit, and overstated, but usually company owners do.

But hey...I've had these concerns since I first met you, before you built any companies. What you've built has only shown me that my concerns were valid and are being realized.

[nimda]

lol

[Bitcoin Oz]

I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

Looks like 600 coins of stock bought back. 7k USD isn't something I would sneeze at. I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed, but that is neither here nor there. I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue. I also agree that CPA should only be partially valued based upon NAV. This sort of metric works really well when looking at stock portfolios such as YABIF, but not so well when it comes to actual businesses.

Assets with minimal liquidity are pretty standard for this exchange. This is particularly true since the pirate induced credit shift and the faltering of mining with the ASIC switch.

I'd be most worried that having lost a ton on Pirate she's now trying to go double or bust on Obsi.  And her companies have more exposure to Obsi than she seems to realise (some of which, in fairness, wasn't her doing and is now unavoidable).  She seems to have confidence in OBSI.HRPT at a time when nearly everyone else in the market believes it's a Ponzi about to crash.  This smacks more of desperation to make a profit (for once), than of planned exposure to a properly assessed risk.

It's not desperation! The point is NYAN.C has right in its contact it will blindly "invest" in anything giving immediate profit, regardless of the worries it might be all gone tomorrow. So he/she wasn't having a special confidence in OBSI.HRPT, but buying them was the only way to truly follow the contract.
The problem with this is when A and B have losses too, and to make up for that, toxic assets make their way out of C to funds that should be clean of that junk.

If HRPT doesn't collapse , the assets will be moved out before bitcoins are. So the assets will find themselves back in .C in short order, or sold if they can't be.

Nefario has confirmed that asset thread's OP are valid and binding in terms of the contract in his comments on Goat's delisting.

Therefore I can do what I want (i.e. what I said I was going to do) wrt OBSI.HRPT and the NYANS.

Stop whining. If you guys don't like it, don't invest. The contracts have all been there and been the same from day 1. THIS IS NOT A MANAGED FUND. IT IS A DERIVATIVE. Everything we do is disclosed. There is nothing underhanded going on here. DO NOT INVEST IN WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND.. and if you do.. don't whine about it. Thanks.

and if you do whine about it.. at least try to be a shareholder. People like Deprived and Puppet are just wastes of human brain cells.

I am a shareholder and bought NYAN.A mainly because it was sold as low risk and now it contains 2000 ponzi shares meaning I need to realise a loss to get out of it. In what world is HRPT low risk 

[Deprived]

I am a shareholder and bought NYAN.A mainly because it was sold as low risk and now it contains 2000 ponzi shares meaning I need to realise a loss to get out of it. In what world is HRPT low risk 

Contract includes a bidwall @ .99 do not sell for an immense loss.

Yup - nyan.a shareholders aren't facing any sort of disaster (unless you believe usagi will actually default).

It's nyan.b that are really getting screwed - their safe(er) investments will get handed to nyan.a because nyan.a chose to invest in HRPT.  Doubt many nyan.b investors read the contract and expected their assets to end up being given to nyan.a because nyan.a invested in a high-risk non-mining security.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I am a shareholder and bought NYAN.A mainly because it was sold as low risk and now it contains 2000 ponzi shares meaning I need to realise a loss to get out of it. In what world is HRPT low risk 

Contract includes a bidwall @ .99 do not sell for an immense loss.

There is no bidwall at .99 so yet again the contract is not being honored. Its called a "bidwall" for a reason.

[Deprived]

I am a shareholder and bought NYAN.A mainly because it was sold as low risk and now it contains 2000 ponzi shares meaning I need to realise a loss to get out of it. In what world is HRPT low risk 

Contract includes a bidwall @ .99 do not sell for an immense loss.

There is no bidwall at .99 so yet again the contract is not being honored. Its called a "bidwall" for a reason.

Meh - contract only says it'll be maintained in a reasonably timely manner.  If it's been cleared with sells then just put shares up for sale at .99 and wait for usagi to come online and replace the wall.  If he/she doesn't do it then, then you have a complaint - but short of using all the funds on a bidwall there's no way to guarantee a wall will always be there when someone wants to sell.

I'd seriously suggest putting up a sell order rather than waiting for the bidwall btw - usagi's idea of a wall may be rather more modest than what you or I would consider to be a wall.

[Puppet]

Congratulations!

..to the shareholders that got out.

In about one week, CPA market valuation just went from
52500 x 0.1 = 5250  
to
36160 x 0.034 =1229

[Bitcoin Oz]

Congratulations!

..to the shareholders that got out.

In about one week, CPA market valuation just went from
52500 x 0.1 = 5250  
to
36160 x 0.034 =1229

To be fair it should make the dividends increase by a lot since the same revenue now gets split amongst less shares. That over time might increase the share price for people who want dividend income stream.

[Puppet]

To be fair it should make the dividends increase by a lot since the same revenue now gets split amongst less shares. That over time might increase the share price for people who want dividend income stream.

Thats of course true if you believe there will be (non trivial) dividends to be paid. Without a public record of CPA's assets and liabilities, I wouldnt count on that, not when it indirectly holds at least 1000s of obsiponzi bonds (through its ownership of NYAN)  and  has to insure Nyan.A (and who knows what else) against obsi.ponzi losses.

[Bitcoin Oz]

To be fair it should make the dividends increase by a lot since the same revenue now gets split amongst less shares. That over time might increase the share price for people who want dividend income stream.

Thats of course true if you believe there will be (non trivial) dividends to be paid. Without a public record of CPA's assets and liabilities, I wouldnt count on that, not when it indirectly holds at least 1000s of obsiponzi bonds (through its ownership of NYAN)  and  has to insure Nyan.A (and who knows what else) against obsi.ponzi losses.

Im just saying thats the reasoning behind it. Im as annoyed as anyone that OBSI.HRPT is held by both NYAN.A and B when in reality it should be solely in NYAN.C which is the HIGH RISK FUND.

[pyrkne]

Fact is, even A and B owners are exposed to "ponzy" grade junk.

You sir, are a fraud.

And when I say fraud, I mean you are issuing a type of malicious criminal libel for financial gain. Trust me this is a well-known type of crime. Actually don't trust me. Look it up yourself. You're being paid to discredit be. I'd be really careful with facts and figures if I were you.

It's now become obvious that you are trying to depress the price of BMF and other companies for whatever reason. You have outstanding scammer accusations against you with multiple supporting witnesses against you, including forum mods.

I will be honestly surprised if you escape a scammer tag.

Scammer tag or not for him, do you honestly think this is a flattering tone to take?

You seem most defensive when accused of lacking professionalism. And yet lacking professionalism on this forum looks to the casual observer like your day job.

~pyotr

[EskimoBob]

Fact is, even A and B owners are exposed to "ponzy" grade junk.

You sir, are a fraud.

And when I say fraud, I mean you are issuing a type of malicious criminal libel for financial gain. Trust me this is a well-known type of crime. Actually don't trust me. Look it up yourself. You're being paid to discredit be. I'd be really careful with facts and figures if I were you.

It's now become obvious that you are trying to depress the price of BMF and other companies for whatever reason. You have outstanding scammer accusations against you with multiple supporting witnesses against you, including forum mods.

I will be honestly surprised if you escape a scammer tag.

Scammer tag or not for him, do you honestly think this is a flattering tone to take?

You seem most defensive when accused of lacking professionalism. And yet lacking professionalism on this forum looks to the casual observer like your day job.

~pyotr

Usagi, you are the scammer here. Why do you call me a scammer is still unclear. I have never scammed anyone. If "scamm  = having a opinion based on known facts about some fucked up portfolios or imaginary Co's" then you need to see a professional and get another prescription.
   
Usagi, you have broken your contract with your investors (including me), I am surprised you do not have a scammer tag.

[Puppet]

Im just saying thats the reasoning behind it.

Dividends isnt the reason. When usagi requested a loan, saying it was needed to grow CPA business and get more insurance contracts ("We have contracts on the table that we can't sign because we can't back the assets yet."),  I predicted the coins would instead be used for this:



Q.E.D.

The reasoning is as simple as it is flawed; because of the circular ownership of usagi's companies, any loss (or gain) in NAV in any of them has a leveraged effect on all of them. For instance,  Nyan B holds a large amount of CPA shares. If CPA price goes down, it hurts Nyans NAV, which in turn costs CPA because it both owns and insures NYAN. And so you get a downward spiral, since a further lowering of CPA value again hurts Nyan. The same is true for BMF <> Nyan <> CPA.

So rather than let the market decide what the assets are worth, usagi discovered that with such low market depth, you can easily manipulate prices - at least briefly. He proudly announced he doubled CPA market valuation by buying 1 BTC worth of shares. That sounded like a plan, but of course it,  didnt last very long. So he decided to get a loan to have more ammo to really push the rock uphill. He spent at least 500 BTC (most of it loaned at 100+% APR) with no real effect on share price. It only showed the emperor has no clothes.