Nefario GLBSE

[repentance]

I look forward to the day when Bitcoin users stop crying "scam" every time they lose money.  

Agreed. But things will stop looking like scams when an operation's principle actors are asking people to just "trust" them. Trust has been common factor behind all of these failures, which is odd since trust is the exact opposite of Bitcoin's architecture. The con in "con game" is short for confidence for a reason.

Let's be honest - the reason why people are willing to put blind faith in these operators boils down to greed.  They're "investing" on the slight possibility that the scheme is both legitimate and sustainable.  Intellectually they might know that there's a high risk of failure, but the remote possibility of easy money hooks them emotionally - especially if they're people who unlikely to ever acquire wealth by conventional means. 

What is utterly ridiculous is that people keep investing more than they can afford to lose in these ventures.  Every time a Bitcoin venture fails we get posts about people having lost funds they needed for day to day expenses, or even worse, losing funds they'd borrowed and now can't return.  If you wouldn't bet the amount you're placing in Bitcoin schemes at the casino, then you need to consider how catastrophic the failure of your investment would be to your real life.

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[Severian]

Let's be honest - the reason why people are willing to put blind faith in these operators boils down to greed.  

Greed is the constant, yessir. One thing I admire about the Bitcoin design philosophy is that greed appears to have been in mind during the process, hence irreversible payments. No amount of design can protect people from their own shortcomings or inability to employ common sense.

If you wouldn't bet the amount you're placing in Bitcoin schemes at the casino, then you need to consider how catastrophic the failure of your investment would be to your real life.

I have a feeling that a fairly high percentage of users would put the rent in a slot machine if given half a chance.

[MPOE-PR]

Let's be honest - the reason why people are willing to put blind faith in these operators boils down to greed.  They're "investing" on the slight possibility that the scheme is both legitimate and sustainable.  Intellectually they might know that there's a high risk of failure, but the remote possibility of easy money hooks them emotionally - especially if they're people who unlikely to ever acquire wealth by conventional means. 

Spot on, actually.

[MPOE-PR]

I agree - we investors are thinking too short term. Let's hope that the failures this year lead to less failures next year.

The exchanges have been around for what, six months?

GLBSE has been fleecing the naive since early 2011 actually. MPEx exists since March 2012, Cryptoexchange since June I think.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I agree - we investors are thinking too short term. Let's hope that the failures this year lead to less failures next year.

The exchanges have been around for what, six months?

GLBSE has been fleecing the naive since early 2011 actually. MPEx exists since March 2012, Cryptoexchange since June I think.

 The original intent of glbse was to be simply a trading floor not the judge and jury. The exchange shouldnt pick winners and losers.

Do you believe people can govern themselves or do they need a nanny to tell them what to do ?  The best thing the community can do is come up with independent agencies to do credit checks and verifications and the massive scams should have made people realise theres a great business opportunity for someone to do this. Theres only so  much glbse can do with the resources it has and instead of whining about it why arent you providing solutions instead ?

[MPOE-PR]

Theres only so  much glbse can do with the resources it has and instead of whining about it why arent you providing solutions instead ?

You're asking PR why do they "whine" instead of providing the solutions? What exactly is the thought process that went into that?

Otherwise, MPEx is the solution, and has been, since launch.

[smoothie]

What I can tell you is that you are spending your efforts in the wrong place if you want to debate GLBSE policy on this forum.

I see usagi-thought is making inroads. Loup, why not just make some local forum rules?

Not true. GLBSE/Nefario actually opened the thread about delisting Goat himself.

They only decided to ignore the forum after the SHTF

This is indeed true. Nefario gets brave in front of the mirror, softens up in public.

They used to have a forum. It's been gone since around the time GLBSE 2.0 launched, and GLBSE launched a support account here because the other forum was poorly supported and resulted in information spread out in two different places.

Lol maybe Loup is trying to revive it?

They have already ignored me long enough for me to get the hint. To my knowledge ( but I didnt look too hard ) the scam section only has this thread relating to nefario scamming. So I put my complaints where they belong, I don't care if I shot myself in the foot since I know my bitcoins are already stolen.

I'm not sure on the policy here, but if you believe you have a case for a scammer tag against Nefario, it might be best to post your accusation in a new thread.  Presumably you will get the opportunity to work with BadBear and Maged the same way Goat did, and presumably your interactions will be different, if only more private.  I can see the point in posting here since you are in a way "a victim of the same scam" but I think you are more "a victim of a different scam" or "a victim of piss-poor customer service" and I don't know what anyone else would think, but a separate thread will at least get your complaint seem by more eyes than page 17 of this one.

Twas tried. Very well presented if I may say so myself, didn't go anywhere because c0x.

Ouch. While I certainly have no issue with a good barroom brawl now and again, painting my comments with the usagi-thought brush is just plain mean. My point is simply this- the extremely poorly communicating and somewhat more than occasionally erratic management of GLBSE has made their rules (currently) that you can only communicate with them through their support (yeah right, support, my ass!!) tickets and through their (non-existent) forum. Revive it? Hell, I'm trying actively to dump every shit investment I have in GLBSE before it completely tanks in the next few weeks (just like version 1.0 did) and we all get stuck holding nothing but air, and still enjoying their piss-poor communications.

Far from being an apologist for GLBSE (I'm not, I think their customer service is second only to pirate and possibly bitcoinica for openness and accessibility) I am just trying to make a point that jasinlee might have more success in dealing with them on their terms, rather than taking the Full Goat approach. Full Goat gets your shit delisted, your assets frozen, and your panties in a twist. Just like bitcoinica needed "fucking respect" I find one can do much better treating the delusional demi-gods of investment genius by playing to their vanity, and was trying to offer that advice to jasinlee.

Or stick to the Full Goat Method, it matters not a whit. Chances are you will end up just as royally screwed as pretty much every other venture around here.

Looks like you're on the shit-end of the stick now given your past ramblings of pirate investors etc.

Got any big words you would like to use now that you obviously are in a bad predicament with your "investments"?

Disclosure: I invested $0/0BTC with both pirate and GLBSE.

Have a nice day,

Smoothie

[smoothie]

Disclosure: I invested $0/0BTC with both pirate and GLBSE.

But you did make that stupid fucking 'bet' about BTCUSD being ≥ $11 in 26 days.  

How was it stupid? I'm currently in "profit" and still haven't lost a penny like you my friend. I made that bet in July when Bitcoins were $8.50. Please show me how it was "stupid".

Try harder to troll me.  

BTW how much did you have invested with PussyAt30?

Edit: How much also did you have invested with GLBSE (Gigantic Lying Bastards Stealing Eggs?)

[pyrkne]

Disclosure: I invested $0/0BTC with both pirate and GLBSE.

But you did make that stupid fucking 'bet' about BTCUSD being ≥ $11 in 26 days.  

How was it stupid? I'm currently in "profit" and still haven't lost a penny like you my friend. I made that bet in July when Bitcoins were $8.50. Please show me how it was "stupid".

Try harder to troll me.  

BTW how much did you have invested with PussyAt30?

Edit: How much also did you have invested with GLBSE (Gigantic Lying Bastards Stealing Eggs?)

Not my eggs!

[Tomatocage]

Didn't BitcoinINV say that the SEC guy mentioned that it "might be a good idea" to remove funds from "the exchange" (though it was unclear which exchange they were referring to)?

[smoothie]

Didn't BitcoinINV say that the SEC guy mentioned that it "might be a good idea" to remove funds from "the exchange" (though it was unclear which exchange they were referring to)?

Yes I remember this being said vaguely.

[EskimoBob]

Nefario (James McCarthy?) closed the GLBSE and fucked it up for everyone who had made investments.
He was lying in London meeting, how GLBSE can be moved blaa blaa blaa and keep operating no matter what. 
Do we really need more proof that this asshole is a scammer and a liar?

[Puppet]

Its ironic that Nefario would be labeled a scammer here for most likely obliging to the law and while presumably not stealing anything from anyone.
An "incompetent" label might be warranted, but I see no evidence of scamming.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Nefario (James McCarthy?) closed the GLBSE and fucked it up for everyone who had made investments.
He was lying in London meeting, how GLBSE can be moved blaa blaa blaa and keep operating no matter what. 
Do we really need more proof that this asshole is a scammer and a liar?

Not scamming. Asset issuers hold most of the bitcoins.

[Deafboy]

Its ironic that Nefario would be labeled a scammer here for most likely obliging to the law and while presumably not stealing anything from anyone.
An "incompetent" label might be warranted, but I see no evidence of scamming.

That's the paradox here. He practically screwed lot of people by obeying the law

[Ghostofkobra]

Its ironic that Nefario would be labeled a scammer here for most likely obliging to the law and while presumably not stealing anything from anyone.
An "incompetent" label might be warranted, but I see no evidence of scamming.

It is fully possible to scam people while following the law.

Websters define scam as: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation


1. Let ppl invest money in your venture.
2. Buy stuff for the money or make really bad deals (and know that they were bad)
    - Maybe take a 1/100 shot at fame and fortune for OPM (Other Peoples Money)
3. Company turns belly up and doesnt pay its creditors. And does so according to the law.


This would in my book be a scam, although its fully legal.

The same goes for handling a exchance (like GLBSE) telling people that it will be operating for a long time.
Charging ppl for listing assets and for selling/buying shares.

Then one day close down shop and burn the lists of who owned what.


/GoK

[Puppet]

What makes you think he is burning that list?

As for your example, you may find it is indeed illegal and you will be liable for the losses if those loses are the result of gross mismanagement and/or if you didnt properly disclose risks to your investors etc.

[repentance]

Its ironic that Nefario would be labeled a scammer here for most likely obliging to the law and while presumably not stealing anything from anyone.
An "incompetent" label might be warranted, but I see no evidence of scamming.

If people actually relied on his statements about the legality of GBLSE's activity and there was absolutely no basis for him making those statements (because he'd never obtained any legal opinion in respect of GBLSE's activities), then those people may feel that they were "scammed" in the sense of being misled. Only a week ago Nefario was confidently asserting on here that the SEC could not exert any jurisdiction over GLBSE.  An investigating authority may well view such statements as being intentionally deceptive.

[Puppet]

If he believed those statements (as I think he did); that would make him wrong (and an idiot) but not  a scammer. If he made those statements knowing them to be false, it might be different.

Thing is, what GLBSE was doing is most likely illegal, but it has been from the start. Labeling him as scammer now, when he is presumably forced to close down by legal authorities or on advice of his legal counsel, is hypocritical, particularly when these cries come from people who would prefer Nefario to continue operating it illegally.

[Ghostofkobra]

What makes you think he is burning that list?

As for your example, you may find it is indeed illegal and you will be liable for the losses if those loses are the result of gross mismanagement and/or if you didnt properly disclose risks to your investors etc.

To clarify my standpoint.


Scamming has to do with ethics.

ethics != law   (sometimes it is sometimes it is not)


/GoK