TYGRR.* assets on GLBSE delisted.

[ciuciu]

Bearer bonds have higher risks than listed securities,

Sadly you're not talking to people who understand what those words mean.

A pedophile like Mircea Popescu, knows everything about anything.

[JoelKatz]

Alright, look... I'm completely serious here, no joke...

You seriously need to learn what you're talking about, because you're just talking out of your ass.

Do yourself a favor and instead of your continued trolling, do something to actually learn something about what stocks and bonds are.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and you keep showing a pretty clear unwillingness to even learn about how things are actually done in the real world here.

Honest advice here, please heed it.

I cannot heed your advice. If I am incorrect, I can't just let myself stay that way. My devotion to truth and honesty will not allow it. I'm not trolling. I genuinely and honestly believe everything I've said.

And, in fact, in a few places where you have shown that I'm incorrect, I've abandoned those claims or acknowledged that you are correct. I can dig out the quotes if you don't believe me. If you feel like you nailed me on something and I just moved onto something else, you're probably right. There's not much point in focusing on something we agree on. I'll try to make a greater effort in the future to leave something you said that I agree with in and respond, "I agree" or something like that, rather than just cutting it because I agree with it.

If I'm wrong or ignorant, why would I just want to move on and stay that way? Are you saying I'm not capable of understanding these complex concepts?

When people disagree with you, particularly passionately, it is very easy to assume bad faith on their part. After all, you're pretty sure you're right. And your arguments seem convincing to you. I can tell you from many years of experience, people who conclude that others are paid shills or arguing in bad faith are almost always wrong. (The other people may be idiots, but even that's not the same thing.)

[swissmate]

What a bad image is all this giving to bitcoin.

The guy who owns GLBSE, just after Goat claims that GLBSE is a scam he just delist his bonds.

Doing that is not really mature as GLBSE is fundamental for bitcoin having a value, and you're just eliminating the bonds from one of the biggest guy in the bitcoin world when it comes to bonds.

[dentldir]

The agreement already is between the issuer and the asset holder and glbse doesnt own anything. The codes simply tell goat which amount of shares belongs to which owner and if he really wanted to he could simply setup a new account at another exchange and issue people shares as they redeem the codes.

This is nonsense for multiple reasons, among which is the simple and obvious one that you can't have contracts between unknown parties. The only valid way to treat financials in BTC is as stemming from a contract between the issuer and the exchange (which is to say, the way MPEx does it).

I would also like to know why they were delisted. There should be an official reason if not well who knows who is next. Diablo-D3's operation was unfrozen after a month. No action was taken or explanation on why it was frozen and then unfrozen.

This.

Nefario's actions seem consistent with the following assumptions:

1) All fraudulent assets pose an imminent legal threat to the existence of the exchange (accomplice/accessory).
2) The distance between the accomplices/accessories and the exchange is too great for negotiation to be valuable.

Why does GLBSE has the authority to do whatever it wants? It's the only authority at GLBSE.  Seems they've simply taken a position in these matters (all moral and ethical determinations aside).

MPOE-PR has it exactly right though, contract law requires the acceptance of an offer between an offerer and an offeree where both are legal entities.  When one of the parties is unknown, contract law cant really apply.  (i.e. how to you prove the competency of an unknown party? what kind of representations can an unknown party make?)

That is the real problem with the claim codes.  They must tie back to the authentication process in GLBSE to "identify" their corresponding "unknown" owner.  (Hence the key setup at MPEx).

As to the fake GLBSE shares, a mistake is a valid reason for a court to dismiss an agreement.  If you take the position that there was a binding agreement on the fake GLBSE shares, then there is still a high chance that the agreement is unenforceable. (i.e. you can't say assets

IANAL.

[Dalkore]

Bearer bonds have higher risks than listed securities,

Sadly you're not talking to people who understand what those words mean.

A pedophile like Mircea Popescu, knows everything about anything.

Why do we keep resulting to personal character assassinations?   I get, you don't agree with their personal decisions, I don't either.  We should stick to the topic at hand and YOU should make another thread in "Off-topic" to discuss that users personal choices.



Smoovious  - What is your angle?  You are really vocal on this issue and really going after Goat.  Do you have a large exposure on GBLSE that this conversation is affect its value because customers of this exchange are vocalizing their dis-satisfaction with the policies and actions in a public forum?

Nefario - Will you please release your official statement on why Goat is a liability to "your" exchange?  We need to put this issue to rest because at this point, it looks like you did this because of a PERSONAL issue with Goat and not because he violated your TOS.   Your silence on this issue really makes people start to think that Maybe Goat has a point regardless if you like him as a person and a user on this forum.

Kindly,
D

[ciuciu]

Bearer bonds have higher risks than listed securities,

Sadly you're not talking to people who understand what those words mean.

A pedophile like Mircea Popescu, knows everything about anything.

Why do we keep resulting to personal character assassinations?   I get, you don't agree with their personal decisions, I don't either.  We should stick to the topic at hand and YOU should make another thread in "Off-topic" to discuss that users personal choices.



Smoovious  - What is your angle?  You are really vocal on this issue and really going after Goat.  Do you have a large exposure on GBLSE that this conversation is affect its value because customers of this exchange are vocalizing their dis-satisfaction with the policies and actions in a public forum?

Nefario - Will you please release your official statement on why Goat is a liability to "your" exchange?  We need to put this issue to rest because at this point, it looks like you did this because of a PERSONAL issue with Goat and not because he violated your TOS.   Your silence on this issue really makes people start to think that Maybe Goat has a point regardless if you like him as a person and a user on this forum.

Kindly,
D

The pedophile Mircea Popescu comes in every thread trowing garbage around. I will do the same for him. The difference is that, all I say about him is true.

[Dalkore]

The pedophile Mircea Popescu comes in every thread trowing garbage around. I will do the same for him. The difference is that, all I say about him is true.

So this is more about revenge on Mircea Popescu than actually adding to this discussion?  Carry-on I guess??? 

I just hope you realize we have a real important issue here with one of our exchanges and a large bond issuer and investors need to understand what the rules to this game are so we don't take on more risk that we calculated in the first place minus any Force majeure.

[Smoovious]

Smoovious  - What is your angle?  You are really vocal on this issue and really going after Goat.  Do you have a large exposure on GBLSE that this conversation is affect its value because customers of this exchange are vocalizing their dis-satisfaction with the policies and actions in a public forum?

Nah, I don't have a large exposure anywhere. My BTC wealth isn't large enough to even be considered "meager" with the low hashrate I have, but that also means, that I can't just simply write things off as easily as others that do have large exposures.

I had more exposure with the pirate fiasco that I ended up getting hurt on a lot, but you didn't see me going off half-cocked about it. I rolled the dice, I lost, so be it.

I just hate all this fake controversy BS. People spouting out stuff as if they know what the F they're talking about when they don't, and don't even know enough to recognize that they don't know.

This escalation to make a big public spectacle of the whole thing, originated with Goat, from everything I understand, and after seeing his behavior over other issues, like a MtGox one a while back, he just isn't stable.

The only thing to gain by escalating it with this tantrum of his has the only purpose of trying to bring down GLBSE and Nefario. Any honest disagreement they had has been lost a long time ago by now. It just sickens me that supposedly intelligent people keep acting this way without the apparent ability to apply reason and logic.

I mean, seriously... OMFG!!! WHAT DO I DO IF SOMEONE USES A CODE TWICE!!? Figure it out... you don't have mommy around here to save you.

WHAT IF THE LIST ISN'T ACCURATE!!!... well, when you actually have some evidence of it not being accurate, then you have something to discuss, which can be verified by Nefario's last records if there is a dispute, but if yer not even going to bother trying to match the claim ID's to the asset-holders who present them, you don't have a leg to stand on. Any failure is on your shoulders if you can't be bothered to try to make good with your asset-holders.

BUT NEFARIO IS HOLDING MY BTC SO I CAN'T PAY ANYBODY!!!... the sooner you give him a BTC addy to send your balance to, the sooner you have them. this is a problem of your own making, man up, shut the F up, and give him an address to send your coin to, the only one preventing it is Goat himself.

Come on! Are the rest of you really so damned stupid that you keep falling for all of the BS that keeps getting posted? Are so many of you honestly so incapable of spotting BS and calling people on it when you see it?

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK people...

Grow up.

-- Smoov

[memvola]

The contract  between you and Goat was in effect at the time you purchased the shares from Goat. You didn't buy them from GLBSE, and you didn't enter into a contract with GLBSE. The contract listed on the info page for that issue, wasn't between Goat and GLBSE, and it wasn't between GLBSE and you, it was between Goat and you.

The only purpose of the code, is so Goat can match up on his list, who owns what. GLBSE operated by keeping asset-holder's identities anonymous.

You're imagining a problem that simply doesn't exist.

First of all, I have the utmost respect for Nefario. But I must say that your defense isn't helping. I wish he got into this dialogue and ignored the trolls. Unfortunately he's done exactly the opposite.

Also, I think you are looking it the wrong way. As a customer, I see a situation where things could have been handled much much better with just an ounce of professionalism. I have the right to complain. The idea of codes may or may not work, we don't know. I didn't ask to be handed the responsibility to judge whether an ad-hoc invention will work in this case. Did we really really need to be in this situation? I can imagine countless ways that GLBSE could have avoided putting us in this mess, so why did it?

Anyway, let me walk you through the thread.

• I have the code, I'm already wasting my time, I'm not receiving any dividends, I can't sell my shares, so regardless of whose fault it is, there is a problem. First acknowledge that.
• Second, there were zero number of reasons to abruptly delist this asset. If you really think there is, please list them.
• Purely because this asset is delisted without notice, I can't get rid of them. The codes don't have the property of being transferred, so I'm in this nasty situation where I have the incentive to waste my time arguing here.
• However, purely because this asset is delisted without notice, I can't get more of them to make this worth the effort.
• Therefore I have suffered because of GLBSE's decision. They could have easily prevented this, which is a very legitimate accusation from me as a customer. If you think they couldn't have handled it better, please explain.
• If you read the comments in this thread, people are suggesting that these codes can be sold. Some people will "buy" these codes. Can you see the scale of trouble everyone will get into when this inevitably happens? I think you are mostly reciting from memory. I humbly suggest you to read the comments more carefully and understand why this is different from the situations you know about.
• GLBSE declared "in effect" that it won't consider itself responsible for any of the trouble that's at least initiated by their own actions.

Now, regarding GLBSE's role, you are, for some reason, ignoring what I said about the nature of the codes and the nature of a signed contract.

GLBSE doesn't have that obligation to you. TYGRR shares aren't listed at GLBSE anymore, and they are not obligated to continue handling accounting for assets that aren't even on his exchange anymore.

The claim code represents your identity. Nothing more.

As for GLBSE's obligation to keep you out of needless trouble? That argument could be used to support GLBSE's delisting of the TYGRR assets, but even if it doesn't get used that way, GLBSE is under no obligation to save you from yourself, or to manage the assets you own, of a company that isn't even trading on their platform anymore.

Your ability to 'redeem' your codes is entirely in Goat's hands. He is handling the management of his asset's owners now himself.

I am quite capable of comprehending the fact that GLBSE declared that it doesn't have an obligation to trade these shares anymore. I don't know how this is related to what I said though. Do they have the right to do that? Sure. Do they have the right to terminate every single asset tomorrow morning? Sure. Do these facts make them a pain in my ass? Definitely.

[Dalkore]

Smoovious  - What is your angle?  You are really vocal on this issue and really going after Goat.  Do you have a large exposure on GBLSE that this conversation is affect its value because customers of this exchange are vocalizing their dis-satisfaction with the policies and actions in a public forum?

Nah, I don't have a large exposure anywhere. My BTC wealth isn't large enough to even be considered "meager" with the low hashrate I have, but that also means, that I can't just simply write things off as easily as others that do have large exposures.

I had more exposure with the pirate fiasco that I ended up getting hurt on a lot, but you didn't see me going off half-cocked about it. I rolled the dice, I lost, so be it.

I just hate all this fake controversy BS. People spouting out stuff as if they know what the F they're talking about when they don't, and don't even know enough to recognize that they don't know.

This escalation to make a big public spectacle of the whole thing, originated with Goat, from everything I understand, and after seeing his behavior over other issues, like a MtGox one a while back, he just isn't stable.

The only thing to gain by escalating it with this tantrum of his has the only purpose of trying to bring down GLBSE and Nefario. Any honest disagreement they had has been lost a long time ago by now. It just sickens me that supposedly intelligent people keep acting this way without the apparent ability to apply reason and logic.

I mean, seriously... OMGF!!! WHAT DO I DO IF SOMEONE USES A CODE TWICE!!? Figure it out... you don't have mommy around here to save you.

WHAT IF THE LIST ISN'T ACCURATE!!!... well, when you actually have some evidence of it not being accurate, then you have something to discuss, which can be verified by Nefario's last records if there is a dispute, but if yer not even going to bother trying to match the claim ID's to the asset-holders who present them, you don't have a leg to stand on. Any failure is on your shoulders if you can't be bothered to try to make good with your asset-holders.

BUT NEFARIO IS HOLDING MY BTC SO I CAN'T PAY ANYBODY!!!... the sooner you give him a BTC addy to send your balance to, the sooner you have them. this is a problem of your own making, man up, shut the F up, and give him an address to send your coin to, the only one preventing it is Goat himself.

Come on! Are the rest of you really so damned stupid that you keep falling for all of the BS that keeps getting posted? Are so many of you honestly so incapable of spotting BS and calling people on it when you see it?

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK people...

Grow up.

-- Smoov

Yes, Goat is an attention getter on this forum (they all have some), but I actually think we have some facts that has not come to light yet that Goat has hinted at and with Nefario's actions and lack of an official statement, he might actually be right even if you don't like the guy or his business practices.  

We need clarification on this issue, if Goat can be treated like this, others might be as well.   It really seems like with the Pirate scam and these "fake" assets with promises made, this action was not actually by policy but something more and we have a right to know what these hidden polices are or atleast to know there are policies we will NOT know about and this can happen if YOUR asset issuers is an ASSHAT on these forums or too Nefario directly.  

[JoelKatz]

This escalation to make a big public spectacle of the whole thing, originated with Goat, from everything I understand, and after seeing his behavior over other issues, like a MtGox one a while back, he just isn't stable.

I agree that Goat did a lot to escalate this situation, but from what is publicly known, it really looks like the real escalation was Nefario's decision to immediately delist all of Goat's assets. Because this had a serious harmful effect on GLBSE's customers, Nefario should not have done this without an extremely good reason, and no such reason is known.

Ideally, Nefario should have just let Goat bloviate in the forums for awhile. He would have prevailed on the scam accusation regarding his offer, as he in fact did. Nefario would have looked like the mature adult and Goat would have looked like he usually does. And that would have been that. GLBSE would have protected its customers' interests in their assets.

If the decision had to be that Goat was such a great risk that GLBSE did not want to list his assets anymore, which is GLBSE's right to decide, that could have been handled *way* better. Suspending trading, removing all pending orders, try to work with Goat on a redemption scheme, possibly allow trading for a limited period of time (with a click-through warning) for those who don't like the terms of the redemption scheme, and so on.

The only thing to gain by escalating it with this tantrum of his has the only purpose of trying to bring down GLBSE and Nefario. Any honest disagreement they had has been lost a long time ago by now. It just sickens me that supposedly intelligent people keep acting this way without the apparent ability to apply reason and logic.

Well, the other purpose is to fix this problem for good. For example, asset contracts should include an explanation of what happens if an asset is delisted. GLBSE should have a policy that reserves immediate delisting for only the very most severe cases. The contours of GLBSE's obligation to protect its customers' ownership interests should be more precisely defined. GLBSE could emerge from this stronger.

I mean, seriously... OMGF!!! WHAT DO I DO IF SOMEONE USES A CODE TWICE!!? Figure it out... you don't have mommy around here to save you.

The problem is that this is a risk GLBSE unilaterally imposed on Goat and nobody has yet figured it out.

WHAT IF THE LIST ISN'T ACCURATE!!!... well, when you actually have some evidence of it not being accurate, then you have something to discuss, which can be verified by Nefario's last records if there is a dispute, but if yer not even going to bother trying to match the claim ID's to the asset-holders who present them, you don't have a leg to stand on. Any failure is on your shoulders if you can't be bothered to try to make good with your asset-holders.

How would this work? Say someone presents a claim code to Goat that isn't on his list. If that person makes a scammer accusation and GLBSE doesn't say anything publicly, what happens? Is GLBSE obligated to help Goat resolve the issue? If not, then you are asking Goat to take a huge risk.

BUT NEFARIO IS HOLDING MY BTC SO I CAN'T PAY ANYBODY!!!... the sooner you give him a BTC addy to send your balance to, the sooner you have them. this is a problem of your own making, man up, shut the F up, and give him an address to send your coin to, the only one preventing it is Goat himself.

If that really is the issue, then that shouldn't be an issue. I agree.

[ciuciu]

The pedophile Mircea Popescu comes in every thread trowing garbage around. I will do the same for him. The difference is that, all I say about him is true.

So this is more about revenge on Mircea Popescu than actually adding to this discussion?  Carry-on I guess??? 

I just hope you realize we have a real important issue here with one of our exchanges and a large bond issuer and investors need to understand what the rules to this game are so we don't take on more risk that we calculated in the first place minus any Force majeure.

I agree with you, but the fact that Mircea Popescu is a pedophile running a porno website on the same domain as a bitcoin exchange is a big liability.

[Dalkore]

The pedophile Mircea Popescu comes in every thread trowing garbage around. I will do the same for him. The difference is that, all I say about him is true.

So this is more about revenge on Mircea Popescu than actually adding to this discussion?  Carry-on I guess??? 

I just hope you realize we have a real important issue here with one of our exchanges and a large bond issuer and investors need to understand what the rules to this game are so we don't take on more risk that we calculated in the first place minus any Force majeure.

I agree with you, but the fact that Mircea Popescu is a pedophile running a porno website on the same domain as a bitcoin exchange is a big liability.

Can you please provide proof he or she (don't know) is a pedophile?   Do you have their rap-sheet or something?   


I did not know what was the case.  That is a big liability and it should be remedied immediately. 

Thank you for giving me some context.  I have seen this claim a few times but it was always in debates so I did not know the back-story.  Proof would be good to settle the matter or please refrain.

[memvola]

I mean, seriously... OMFG!!! WHAT DO I DO IF SOMEONE USES A CODE TWICE!!? Figure it out... you don't have mommy around here to save you.

It's all about what kind of establishment GLBSE is. Some of us have experience in developing and running similar services and can extrapolate from details we notice. Do you suggest I stay with this particular company after they have demonstrated incompetence in such a minor issue? It's of no consequence whether I can figure it out. Why do you think they didn't figure it out, instead of me? What do I pay them for? I was also considering buying a big chunk of GLBSE and now I'm not. These are very practical matters that one may need to figure out. You know, we don't have a mommy around and all that.

Please pay more attention to differentiating the important issues from the trolling, both of which is going on in the same thread.

[Dalkore]

I mean, seriously... OMFG!!! WHAT DO I DO IF SOMEONE USES A CODE TWICE!!? Figure it out... you don't have mommy around here to save you.

It's all about what kind of establishment GLBSE is. Some of us have experience in developing and running similar services and can extrapolate from details we notice. Do you suggest I stay with this particular company after they have demonstrated incompetence in such a minor issue? It's of no consequence whether I can figure it out. Why do you think they didn't figure it out, instead of me? What do I pay them for? I was also considering buying a big chunk of GLBSE and now I'm not. These are very practical matters that one may need to figure out. You know, we don't have a mommy around and all that.

Please pay more attention to differentiating the important issues from the trolling, both of which is going on in the same thread.

Yes, this is my concern as well.  This is the only issue.   The reason we are talking about Goat is because he has been affected by this unilateral decision and we need a official explanation for why this happened.

[MPOE-PR]

I mean, seriously... OMFG!!! WHAT DO I DO IF SOMEONE USES A CODE TWICE!!? Figure it out... you don't have mommy around here to save you.

Your proposition boils down to "arbitrary". Bitcoin is all about providing mathematical solutions in place of arbitrary solutions. As such, your entire line of thought is utterly misplaced. It's not that you haven't offered a good solution. It's that the entire philosophical grounding you try to build a solution upon is completely contrary to Bitcoin's. You're a geocentrist trying to participate in a Copernican dispute.

WHAT IF THE LIST ISN'T ACCURATE!!!... well, when you actually have some evidence of it not being accurate, then you have something to discuss,

This is the exact sort of stupidity that has caused the problems the community is trying to solve. You don't act first, think about what you've done later unless your goal is to spend a lot of time in the shade, within concrete. Again, your paradigm is not only slightly broken, it is irretrievably and completely broken.

BUT NEFARIO IS HOLDING MY BTC SO I CAN'T PAY ANYBODY!!!... the sooner you give him a BTC addy to send your balance to, the sooner you have them.

There's some valid concern that such a move would also acquiesce what is, to that party, an unacceptable arrangement. If someone steals your car then offers to give you back the spare tire you may have very good reason not to take the spare tire without the car.

Come on! Are the rest of you really so damned stupid that you keep falling for all of the BS that keeps getting posted? Are so many of you honestly so incapable of spotting BS and calling people on it when you see it?

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK people...

Quite the contrary: we don't tend to call things we don't understand "bs" simply because we don't understand them. Hint hint.

We need clarification on this issue, if Goat can be treated like this, others might be as well.   It really seems like with the Pirate scam and these "fake" assets with promises made, this action was not actually by policy but something more and we have a right to know what these hidden polices are or atleast to know there are policies we will NOT know about and this can happen if YOUR asset issuers is an ASSHAT on these forums or too Nefario directly.  

There is certainly a lot to this. Goat isn't simply an asset holder, Goat is someone who worked in conjunction with GLBSE to, among other things, create fake volume on GLBSE by trading his own shares (a practice GLBSE supported by waiving transaction fees for Goat, but not for others).

In short, neither party is either honest or forthcoming to all of this. Which is why they're being judged on the actions alone, and aren't getting any slack as honest people might have gotten.

[ciuciu]

The pedophile Mircea Popescu comes in every thread trowing garbage around. I will do the same for him. The difference is that, all I say about him is true.

So this is more about revenge on Mircea Popescu than actually adding to this discussion?  Carry-on I guess???  

I just hope you realize we have a real important issue here with one of our exchanges and a large bond issuer and investors need to understand what the rules to this game are so we don't take on more risk that we calculated in the first place minus any Force majeure.

I agree with you, but the fact that Mircea Popescu is a pedophile running a porno website on the same domain as a bitcoin exchange is a big liability.

Can you please provide proof he or she (don't know) is a pedophile?   Do you have their rap-sheet or something?  


I did not know what was the case.  That is a big liability and it should be remedied immediately.  

Thank you for giving me some context.  I have seen this claim a few times but it was always in debates so I did not know the back-story.  Proof would be good to settle the matter or please refrain.

Here is a thread about it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102333.0
A lot of the models on his website look very underage, beside cut up babies and other things.
He tries to spin it for a 4chan, but everything there is posted by him trying to attract other degenerates.
He didn't have success in porn, so he is trying here for his next scam.

[Smoovious]

• I have the code, I'm already wasting my time, I'm not receiving any dividends, I can't sell my shares, so regardless of whose fault it is, there is a problem. First acknowledge that.

You still should be getting credited for your dividends by Goat. What he'll have to do, is as dividends are ready to go out, he will do the math himself to figure out how much per share, then manually send them out to the people who have identified themselves via their claim code. Any bonds that haven't been linked to the owner yet, would have those dividends held in escrow until those share are identified, at which point, they will receive the generated dividends that the asset-holder held reserved for them.

• Second, there were zero number of reasons to abruptly delist this asset. If you really think there is, please list them.

I can't say zero reasons. When a client/customer initiates actions for the sole purpose of causing harm to your business, you have every right to refuse service from that point on, or, in the case of a contract between the two, if it isn't a condition in the separation clause, the business can simply not renew the contract when it expires. No notice is required.

• Purely because this asset is delisted without notice, I can't get rid of them. The codes don't have the property of being transferred, so I'm in this nasty situation where I have the incentive to waste my time arguing here.

You can't get rid of them on GLBSE, but there is nothing stopping you from arranging a private sale, and doing it through the asset issuer so the issuer can update his records.

I'll grant you, that you've lost the convenience of an automated exchange to do all of this accounting for the asset issuer, but that is something the issuer will have to work out for himself, if he doesn't want to do the accounting.

• However, purely because this asset is delisted without notice, I can't get more of them to make this worth the effort.

See above answer

• Therefore I have suffered because of GLBSE's decision. They could have easily prevented this, which is a very legitimate accusation from me as a customer. If you think they couldn't have handled it better, please explain.

Certainly it could have been handled better, there is little dispute about that, but that isn't the same as saying that it is unworkable and|or can't be done. GLBSE wasn't the supplier, just the facilitator. Maybe a broker would be willing to chase around the issues he is managing for you as the customer, but GLBSE wasn't necessarily a broker, just an exchange, that handled the accounting for the assets. Plenty of room for argument on that point however, I'll agree.

• If you read the comments in this thread, people are suggesting that these codes can be sold. Some people will "buy" these codes. Can you see the scale of trouble everyone will get into when this inevitably happens? I think you are mostly reciting from memory. I humbly suggest you to read the comments more carefully and understand why this is different from the situations you know about.

Personally, I think people choosing to sell the claim codes themselves, would be foolish to do so. Their only purpose is for the asset issuer to match holders to the shares they own off of the issuer's list. At that point, if the holder wishes to sell his shares to someone else, person to person, both parties will have to do it through the asset issuer himself, as he is handling the accounting for it now.

• GLBSE declared "in effect" that it won't consider itself responsible for any of the trouble that's at least initiated by their own actions.

We can plenty argue over who initiated what, but it has little relevance to the situation we have now. That ship has sailed. The way I see it, you're going to keep having two camps. One camp who believes that the exchange has to put up with all the BS that is being fanned by the owners of the companies listed on their exchange, even if that BS is detrimental to the exchange itself, and you'll have the other camp who believes that no company has a right to be listed on the exchange, and the exchange can't be forced to keep a company listed, or be forced to continue trading, or handling, any transactions involved with the now-delisted company.

I'm in the latter camp.

Basing it solely on the public information I have seen posted, Goat was in the wrong, and created this situation himself. I can't blame Nefario one bit for evicting him off of the exchange at the point that he did. I probably would have done the same thing more or less.

One change I may have done, was to just halt trading of all of the assets, with a notice of why they were halted, to prepare for delisting it, and accept no more trading at all at that point. Then take a little more time compiling the list of share owners together, to send to Goat.

It wouldn't change the outcome of course, but it would have just dragged it out a little longer. Sometimes it is just best to make a clean quick break and be done with it.

I also wouldn't have run anonymously. The top 10 or 15 shareholders would be shown in the company info page, and the company CEO would have access to the complete current list at any time through whatever CEO menu available to them.

Since GLBSE was running anonymously, however, and that information wasn't normally available, then you have the additional responsibility to preserve the trader's identity and honor that anonymity. In order to do that, you would have to have a method where a share|bond holder can be linked up with the list of holders the CEO has. That's where the claim code comes in.

Your shares aren't gone. That was between you and the asset issuer, regardless of if an exchange was man-in-the-middle or not. To claim that they have been voided, or are now gone, is disingenuous.

This is by far a perfect situation, or outcome, but it is by no means, unworkable. It is just going to require a lot more work between the people involved now, which we have previously taken for granted.

-- Smoov

[JoelKatz]

Here is a thread about it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102333.0

Don't confuse distributing child pornography with being a pedophile. Those are two very different things.

A lot of the models on his website look very underage, beside cut up babies and other things.

Pedophilia is an interest in prepubescent children. Not all nudity is pornography. Not everyone who looks underage is underage. And 18 isn't the age of consent everywhere.

I'm not going to search the site for child pornography, but I will say that a lot of things people think are child pornography are actually not illegal. However, my personal experience has been that people who got their start in the seemier side of the Internet porn industry, even if totally legal, generally are not the kind of people who tend to do the right thing when it matters.

[Dalkore]

@ MPOE-PR - To be fair, you are another exchange operator so you do have a slight bias in this matter.  You are also bringing up another issue that isn't in this current topic.   We are dealing with GBLSE's responsibilty to its Asset Issuers and Holders and what actions we can expect in the future and in this situation.    We have an action that looks to be personally motivated and not something clearly against any TOS agreement other than the operator has said they can take any unilateral action they want which is quite MATERIAL if you are going to trade or issue through the platform.  

What I am still waiting on is the official statement on why these actions were taken in such a manner without prior notice to the asset holders which have been just as affected if not more so because of the elimination on any real liquidity on such a large issue bond.