Already delays in BFL shipment plans?

[SLok]

BFL never actually holds any coins at any time.

Oh? You speak on behalf of BFL? You work as an accountant or something like for them to know that for sure?

BFL might not hold coins - but they sure hold our (pre order) money. Lots.

For the readers who just tuned in, bitsnpieces is also known here as frizz23.

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[DoomDumas]

Hi all, lots of different tought in there !

Here's mine : I've ordered BFL rigs in July and others in September.  Before putting my order, I knew possible delay past October could occurs.  I can deal with that, so I ordered.  I've look to the competition, have almost ordered some, but seems that the power usage stuff is won by BFL !  We'll see. 

As I take nothing for granted, neighter 3 competitors shipping dates. 
Again, let's see.  I Like the concept of self contained unit announced by Avalon, this is great, I also think they will make their own miner, open source.. I like it too.   I may order some Avalon stuff, but I'm in no hurry..

For the point about who will be the first to ship, I don't care that much, sure it could produce some extra BTC, but im in for long long long.. So, over all, it does'nt change that much.

I've no problem with the so called "interest-free loan" to BFL.. I've paid in BTC, so for me it was'nt work-earned $ anyway.  Ok, BTC were 6$ and they are now 12$.. No problem, they also could have been to 3$ today.  I've sold more than 5k BTC well under 1$ in the past, no regrets, as I was always happy to sell them.  In investement, speculation, regrets are useless IMO.

Before 2013, I will probably order 1 or 2 more rig from BFL, and maybe 1 from Avalon.  Dont know about bAsic, as their power consumption seems higher than BFL, and it's not a self-contained unit like Avalon !

To conclude, I spent only what I could lose overnight without problems..

Nothing has been proven yet, so dont take anything granted !

Next weeks / months will be exiting for sure, no matter what happen 

[PuertoLibre]

@ DoomDumas

What is "Plan B", if any?

At what point do you start thinking of heading for the exit? I assume you have at least several thousand invested so I want to hear your thoughts on what you feel can go wrong and what would shake you enough to pull out (if anything).

What are the warning signs to look out for in your investment?

Edit: The reason I ask is because so far I have heard people say plenty about refunds...but so far I haven't heard of an actual  backup strategy. (except diversification)

[creativex]

Hi all, lots of different tought in there !

Here's mine : I've ordered BFL rigs in July and others in September.  Before putting my order, I knew possible delay past October could occurs.  I can deal with that, so I ordered.  I've look to the competition, have almost ordered some, but seems that the power usage stuff is won by BFL !  We'll see. 

As I take nothing for granted, neighter 3 competitors shipping dates. 
Again, let's see.  I Like the concept of self contained unit announced by Avalon, this is great, I also think they will make their own miner, open source.. I like it too.   I may order some Avalon stuff, but I'm in no hurry..

For the point about who will be the first to ship, I don't care that much, sure it could produce some extra BTC, but im in for long long long.. So, over all, it does'nt change that much.

I've no problem with the so called "interest-free loan" to BFL.. I've paid in BTC, so for me it was'nt work-earned $ anyway.  Ok, BTC were 6$ and they are now 12$.. No problem, they also could have been to 3$ today.  I've sold more than 5k BTC well under 1$ in the past, no regrets, as I was always happy to sell them.  In investement, speculation, regrets are useless IMO.

Before 2013, I will probably order 1 or 2 more rig from BFL, and maybe 1 from Avalon.  Dont know about bAsic, as their power consumption seems higher than BFL, and it's not a self-contained unit like Avalon !

To conclude, I spent only what I could lose overnight without problems..

Nothing has been proven yet, so dont take anything granted !

Next weeks / months will be exiting for sure, no matter what happen 

Wow...and I thought *I* was easy going.

If I ordered in July and was told I'd receive products in October, I'd be PO'd with the poorly handled delays right about now.

Also, I think Avalon is a class act all the way, zero interest in running them down, but they'll almost surely have the highest power consumption numbers. Particularly when you scale to multiple units that could easily be run off one low powered laptop.

[DoomDumas]

PuertoLibre : I've no plan to get out.  

Wrost scenario : BFL did not ship anything, close business, and I lose it all..
The probability that this occurs are 0, or something like 0.01% IMO !  

creativex : Before ordering, I read a lot about BFL.. So I was aware that delays were possible.. I was almost pretty sure that delays will occur, so I'm not surprised and/or disappointed !
And each week of delay gives me around 1/40 chance to win 30Ghs for free by my signature )


So I sit on my pre-order, get some popcorn and watch the show

[DoomDumas]

Also, I think Avalon is a class act all the way, zero interest in running them down, but they'll almost surely have the highest power consumption numbers. Particularly when you scale to multiple units that could easily be run off one low powered laptop.

Can you explain, Im not so good in english, I dont understand very well your tought..

Avalon = Less power needed ?

[PuertoLibre]

PuertoLibre : I've no plan to get out. 

Then we are both in the same boat with respect to our purchases....

I am hoping someone will come up with a viable "Plan B" regardless of which vendor we purchased from. The first vendor to cater to the "Plan B" crowd will double their size overnight....

<Hint><Hint>

Wrost scenario : BFL did not ship anything, close business, and I lose it all..
The probability that this occurs are 0, or something like 0.01% IMO ! 

creativex : Before ordering, I read a lot about BFL.. So I was aware that delays were possible.. I was almost pretty sure that delays will occurs, so I'm not surprise or disappointed !
And each week of delay gives me around 1/40 chance to win 30Ghs for free by my signature )


So I sit on my pre-order, get some popcorn and watch the show

By the way, the Avalon team won me over by virtue of the self contained unit. I wonder when they will next revise their power numbers downward.

Actually, I wonder when BFL will confirm their actual power numbers.

[DoomDumas]

By the way, the Avalon team won me over by virtue of the self contained unit. I wonder when they will next revise their power numbers downward.

Actually, I wonder when BFL will confirm their actual power numbers.

Thinking the exact same, that's why I'll probably order an Avalon unit before 2013, maybe i'm just waiting to see real facts about power usage, and need some more fund anyway !


Just in case, anyone knows why BFL are no more accepting BTC ?  I Missed that one, and find it quite strange...

EDIT : FORGET IT, I've take a look, BTC Accepted, maybe just for upgrades that BTC are not a possibility !

[creativex]

Also, I think Avalon is a class act all the way, zero interest in running them down, but they'll almost surely have the highest power consumption numbers. Particularly when you scale to multiple units that could easily be run off one low powered laptop.

Can you explain, Im not so good in english, I dont understand very well your tought..

Avalon = Less power needed ?

Avalon is using the oldest tech in the design of their ASIC, presumably to lower production costs and to mitigate the chance of a disastrous problem with their chip. All in all it's not a bad choice for a first ASIC product, but it will likely use the most power of the three(BFL,bASIC,Avalon).   

[fcmatt]

Also, I think Avalon is a class act all the way, zero interest in running them down, but they'll almost surely have the highest power consumption numbers. Particularly when you scale to multiple units that could easily be run off one low powered laptop.

Can you explain, Im not so good in english, I dont understand very well your tought..

Avalon = Less power needed ?

Avalon is using the oldest tech in the design of their ASIC, presumably to lower production costs and to mitigate the chance of a disastrous problem with their chip. All in all it's not a bad choice for a first ASIC product, but it will likely use the most power of the three(BFL,bASIC,Avalon).  

After running gpus how can one even be concerned about the power usage is beyond me looking at any of the asic's possible  usage...  to me it is irrelevant when i make the choice to buy. It will all be based on hashing for the dollar which will offset poss higher elect usage plus actually getting something that powerful. Any asic is the only choice. Pennies here or pennies there are of little concern.

[creativex]

It's easy to see it that way when you're looking at it from the perspective of cheap power($.069/kwh here) and low difficulty. However, for those with high power costs(CA, Eurozone, etc), this is a huge issue. Especially when you consider that all but the Avalon will require a computer of some sort to feed them and the Avalon will consume more power than the others for the same hashes.

Also as difficulty rises sharply after ASICs are in the wild it is power efficiency that will determine if and when each ASIC becomes a net loss to operate. If you're in a cheap power area that may be 3 years from now and therefore of no real concern, but if power is $.4/kwh that time may be upon you in the not too distant future and should be taken into consideration.

[Meatball]

It's easy to see it that way when you're looking at it from the perspective of cheap power($.069/kwh here) and low difficulty. However, for those with high power costs(CA, Eurozone, etc), this is a huge issue. Especially when you consider that all but the Avalon will require a computer of some sort to feed them and the Avalon will consume more power than the others for the same hashes.

Also as difficulty rises sharply after ASICs are in the wild it is power efficiency that will determine if and when each ASIC becomes a net loss to operate. If you're in a cheap power area that may be 3 years from now and therefore of no real concern, but if power is $.4/kwh that time may be upon you in the not too distant future and should be taken into consideration.

Three years is a _very_ long time in the Bitcoin lifespan.  Honestly, I don't think calculations should be done out past a year just because there's so much that can change that it's almost a waste of time to try.  Think about where Bitcoin was 3 years ago.  The entire Bitcoin network was 7 MH and difficulty was still 1.  Yes, you read that right...7 MH, 1 Difficulty.

At most I think people can somewhat accurately calculate out where they think things will be in 6 months, maybe 12, but anything beyond that is just a waste of effort to even try.  For all we know we could be at tens or hundreds of GH per watt at that point.

[creativex]

Not talking about calculations, only considerations. I agree 3yrs is a very long time in the BTC universe.

[Unacceptable]

Hi all, lots of different tought in there !

Here's mine : I've ordered BFL rigs in July and others in September.  Before putting my order, I knew possible delay past October could occurs.  I can deal with that, so I ordered.  I've look to the competition, have almost ordered some, but seems that the power usage stuff is won by BFL !  We'll see. 

As I take nothing for granted, neighter 3 competitors shipping dates. 
Again, let's see.  I Like the concept of self contained unit announced by Avalon, this is great, I also think they will make their own miner, open source.. I like it too.   I may order some Avalon stuff, but I'm in no hurry..

For the point about who will be the first to ship, I don't care that much, sure it could produce some extra BTC, but im in for long long long.. So, over all, it does'nt change that much.

I've no problem with the so called "interest-free loan" to BFL.. I've paid in BTC, so for me it was'nt work-earned $ anyway.  Ok, BTC were 6$ and they are now 12$.. No problem, they also could have been to 3$ today.  I've sold more than 5k BTC well under 1$ in the past, no regrets, as I was always happy to sell them.  In investement, speculation, regrets are useless IMO.

Before 2013, I will probably order 1 or 2 more rig from BFL, and maybe 1 from Avalon.  Dont know about bAsic, as their power consumption seems higher than BFL, and it's not a self-contained unit like Avalon !

To conclude, I spent only what I could lose overnight without problems..

Nothing has been proven yet, so dont take anything granted !

Next weeks / months will be exiting for sure, no matter what happen 

I like the way you think DoomDumas

I've ordered 1 30gh unit & 1 tradein of my FPGA Single for the 60 gh unit.I made my order in June,in the first 100 to 150 orders 

I have no plan B,the only question about delivery for me is WHEN,not IF.No matter what,if your NOT in the FIRST batch from ANY vendor,you already are on plan B 

I too used BTC to finance my purchases & not hard earned cash,so I can wait for a refund,if needed.I have faith that won't happen,maybe another delay,but I can deal with that........

The power consumption SHOULD concern you guys,like creativex said,when ASIC's are the only thing mining in 2 or more months,you'll wish you had the lowest.My power is .12 to .14 cents per KWH,high enough to make a choice based solely on that,plus the ASIC tradein for next gen helped too 

As for Avalon,really great idea to make a miner stand alone,BUT,my PC that I'll be using to host my ASIC's ,consumes no more than 50 to 60 watts,dual core 45 watt CPU,1 gig DDR2 RAM,onboard video & an old hdd,& only the CPU was bought,I had all the other parts from old PC's layin around,so for me,its a waste.In fact I have 2 of these rigs mining right now with 6950's,I'll sell the vid cards to gamers I know & recoup some cash....or BTC 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Also, I think Avalon is a class act all the way, zero interest in running them down, but they'll almost surely have the highest power consumption numbers. Particularly when you scale to multiple units that could easily be run off one low powered laptop.

Can you explain, Im not so good in english, I dont understand very well your tought..

Avalon = Less power needed ?

INTERESTING!

I'm advocating Zeitgeist Ideas for a while now.. I came to understand that adults, (25 years old +, me included) are too much endoctrinated to easily understand all the social underlying aspecct of an RBE...  It took me a lot of learning, listening and book reading to fully understand that an RBE is not only possible, but the only way for human kind to survive..

I bet and work on educating the younger, as their mind are still opened and not so polluted yet..

The Zeitgeist Movement is based on science, wich do not use mind association of predetermined ideas.. Science is based on facts !

What do I want ?
Evidence based change !
When do I want it ?
After peer review !

Read books, listen to podcast, etc..  there is a lot of great stuff to learn, question, discuss..

The change must begin in our value !

[crazyates]

Hi all, lots of different tought in there !

Here's mine : I've ordered BFL rigs in July and others in September.  Before putting my order, I knew possible delay past October could occurs.  I can deal with that, so I ordered.  I've look to the competition, have almost ordered some, but seems that the power usage stuff is won by BFL !  We'll see. 

As I take nothing for granted, neighter 3 competitors shipping dates. 
Again, let's see.  I Like the concept of self contained unit announced by Avalon, this is great, I also think they will make their own miner, open source.. I like it too.   I may order some Avalon stuff, but I'm in no hurry..

For the point about who will be the first to ship, I don't care that much, sure it could produce some extra BTC, but im in for long long long.. So, over all, it does'nt change that much.

I've no problem with the so called "interest-free loan" to BFL.. I've paid in BTC, so for me it was'nt work-earned $ anyway.  Ok, BTC were 6$ and they are now 12$.. No problem, they also could have been to 3$ today.  I've sold more than 5k BTC well under 1$ in the past, no regrets, as I was always happy to sell them.  In investement, speculation, regrets are useless IMO.

Before 2013, I will probably order 1 or 2 more rig from BFL, and maybe 1 from Avalon.  Dont know about bAsic, as their power consumption seems higher than BFL, and it's not a self-contained unit like Avalon !

To conclude, I spent only what I could lose overnight without problems..

Nothing has been proven yet, so dont take anything granted !

Next weeks / months will be exiting for sure, no matter what happen 

+1 for reason.

[LiteBit]

Missing the halving is a tough pill to swallow and so is the sheer quantity of ASICs being preordered. Nevertheless, I'm glad I pulled the plug back in early July and wait anxiously for the black boxes to arrive on my doorstep.

Price in Jul: $6/btc
Price in Nov: $12/btc

Had you invested by buying BTC instead of giving BFL a loan, you would have doubled your money. BFL thanks you greatly for the huge interest-free loan.

And had I bought a truckload of Twinkies last week I'd be rich today, what's your point?  BTC could have also been worth $1 today.  If I could predict the future I'd certainly have more than doubled my money in 5 months.

Not to mention, any time you pre-order anything you're giving someone an interest free loan.  Pre-Order anything off of Steam or any video games, there's an interest free loan.  Heck, buy any gift card in the world and you're giving that company an interest free loan.

Any concert ticket you buy is an interest free loan in fact.  No big deal if you plan on going and they hold the concert.  Sell out a 35,000 seat arena in 1 city in a day and there's 1.5Mil to help create your soundstage, etc...  That's just 1 city!

DoomDumas, I agree 100% with your logic, I'm on the same track and have no regrets.  I just feel for the poor saps that don't have the backbone.  Maybe one day they'll grow a pair and stick by their decision versus second guessing other's choices and their own regrets 

Nevermind... I don't feel bad for them!

[bitcoindaddy]

After running gpus how can one even be concerned about the power usage is beyond me looking at any of the asic's possible  usage...  to me it is irrelevant when i make the choice to buy. It will all be based on hashing for the dollar which will offset poss higher elect usage plus actually getting something that powerful. Any asic is the only choice. Pennies here or pennies there are of little concern.

Well I'm in bitcoin for the long term and power utilization will become more and more important as the profits go down. Initially, yes, it won't matter. You'll be making enough that it won't matter. I've purchased a Raspberry Pi which only takes 4 watts to run to minimize my overhead. But initially, when uptime is the most important factor, I'll be running the ASIC's off of a regular PC.

[Merrick]

After running gpus how can one even be concerned about the power usage is beyond me looking at any of the asic's possible  usage...  to me it is irrelevant when i make the choice to buy. It will all be based on hashing for the dollar which will offset poss higher elect usage plus actually getting something that powerful. Any asic is the only choice. Pennies here or pennies there are of little concern.

Well I'm in bitcoin for the long term and power utilization will become more and more important as the profits go down. Initially, yes, it won't matter. You'll be making enough that it won't matter. I've purchased a Raspberry Pi which only takes 4 watts to run to minimize my overhead. But initially, when uptime is the most important factor, I'll be running the ASIC's off of a regular PC.

Not too familiar with the Pi. Does it have stability issues or something?

[DoomDumas]

Im also interested by those Pi !  Any interesting thread about it ?