Already delays in BFL shipment plans?

[thebaron]

October, November, December, January, February...

[greyhawk]

October, November, December, January, February...

...and March comes afterwards...

We should do a BFL song.

Like this maybe:

Mama, just bought a rig, sent my bitcoins, half a ton,
pressed a button, now they're gone, mama
Wealth had just begun, but now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, ooo, didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not rich again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters

[...]

I see a little silhouetto of a rig
BFL, BFL - will you do the fandango
Electricity costs rising very very frightening me
BFL_Josh, BFL_Josh, BFL_Josh, BFL_Josh,
BFL_Josh imbroglio magnifico

[...]

[bobitza]

We should do a BFL song.

Like this maybe:

Mama, just bought a rig, sent my bitcoins, half a ton,
pressed a button, now they're gone, mama
Wealth had just begun, but now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, ooo, didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not rich again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters

lmao, good one

[SLok]

Hahaha, perhaps replace "electricity costs" with "difficulty", that's my only worry

[dextryn]

"Plan B" has just manifested:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/251-More-Jalapeno-Pictures-amp-Shipping-Update?p=5382&viewfull=1#post5382

It seems that there may be a Surplus of units for bASIC Batch 1 orders. Meaning about 300 non-customers may be able to take those "Plan B" spots.

You know the saying....strike while the Iron is Hot.

It's funny because in that thread, BFL_Josh only bashes bASIC.  He says Tom has no idea what he's doing and the best quote is "The silence from Tom is the thing I would be most worried about if I cared when my bASIC unit shipped."  How about those people that cared when BFL ships their products? Even if Tom ended up behind a month, he would still be closer to his original ship date than BFL.  How about you look at your crappy promises before you flame war others.

Hypocritical post is hypocritical.

[jjshabadoo]

Nothing like a good diversion to take the heat off.

[Starlightbreaker]

"Plan B" has just manifested:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/251-More-Jalapeno-Pictures-amp-Shipping-Update?p=5382&viewfull=1#post5382

It seems that there may be a Surplus of units for bASIC Batch 1 orders. Meaning about 300 non-customers may be able to take those "Plan B" spots.

You know the saying....strike while the Iron is Hot.

It's funny because in that thread, BFL_Josh only bashes bASIC.  He says Tom has no idea what he's doing and the best quote is "The silence from Tom is the thing I would be most worried about if I cared when my bASIC unit shipped."  How about those people that cared when BFL ships their products? Even if Tom ended up behind a month, he would still be closer to his original ship date than BFL.  How about you look at your crappy promises before you flame war others.

Hypocritical post is hypocritical.

let's start from something smaller.
at least for Tom, he got his "facility" photos.

now BFL....not even a shot of their facility.
kano and yochdog still haven't inspected their facility.
not a single working prototype is out, especially after almost 2 months from planned shipment date.

i'm calling march for their shipping.

[creativex]

It's funny because in that thread, BFL_Josh only bashes bASIC.  He says Tom has no idea what he's doing and the best quote is "The silence from Tom is the thing I would be most worried about if I cared when my bASIC unit shipped."  How about those people that cared when BFL ships their products? Even if Tom ended up behind a month, he would still be closer to his original ship date than BFL.  How about you look at your crappy promises before you flame war others.

Hypocritical post is hypocritical.

The same fella said: "efficiency is the only thing", then awhile later in the same thread agreed that early receipt of an ASIC is vitally important for lowering ROI.

[squeept]

let's start from something smaller.
at least for Tom, he got his "facility" photos.

now BFL....not even a shot of their facility.
kano and yochdog still haven't inspected their facility.
not a single working prototype is out, especially after almost 2 months from planned shipment date.

i'm calling march for their shipping.

bASIC: photos of an office space and moving boxes, and a claim that a prototype exists but no actual proof

BFL: renders of device, renders of PCB, photos of actual populated PCB, photos of actual cases, photos of assembly equipment verified to be theirs, photos of $100K worth of power supplies for mini-rigs, but verified to not have a working prototype as of about 6 weeks ago

No proof that either have chips in hand yet. No proof that either have working prototypes. Based on the provided evidence, I say BFL wins the race. Based on promises alone, bASIC wins.

[creativex]

bASIC: photos of an office space and moving boxes, and a claim that a prototype exists but no actual proof

BFL: renders of device, renders of PCB, photos of actual populated PCB, photos of actual cases, photos of assembly equipment verified to be theirs, photos of $100K worth of power supplies for mini-rigs, but verified to not have a working prototype as of about 6 weeks ago

No proof that either have chips in hand yet. No proof that either have working prototypes. Based on the provided evidence, I say BFL wins the race. Based on promises alone, bASIC wins.

...and based on historical accuracy of shipping date projections, it's not even close.

[bitmar]

Based on the provided evidence, I say BFL wins the race. Based on promises alone, bASIC wins.

what evidence are you talking about? PCB photos?  LOL Each amateur electronic engineer can do such a PCB. BFL wins... but in cheating customers about date of shipment  Let them show a working prototype then they will win.

[AndrewBUD]

Pictures of a PCB doesn't equal a working product.. Both vendors could have issues while working on a "prototype"

[Starlightbreaker]

let's start.

BFL: renders of device, renders of PCB, photos of actual populated PCB

can you run renders of device? no? ok.
yet still no working prototype.

photos of actual cases, photos of assembly equipment verified to be theirs,

remember the "facility inspection"?
yeah, no.

photos of $100K worth of power supplies for mini-rigs, but verified to not have a working prototype as of about 6 weeks ago

ok, actual populated PCBs, shitton of power supplies....and no working prototypes.

y'know, everything are in place, seemed ready to go, but feels like something's going wrong with them.

No proof that either have chips in hand yet. No proof that either have working prototypes. Based on the provided evidence, I say BFL wins the race. Based on promises alone, bASIC wins.

lol.

you just said that bfl has populated pcb. they have at least have a few chips in hand to test them out.

remember, they SHOULD HAVE shipped in october, but apparently they couldn't get shit done.

[creativex]

Yeah the photos of the populated boards(including the damaged chips) with BFL reps stating they didn't have the ASIC chips yet was humorous.

[squeept]

Good sweet lord, you people have problems with reading comprehension.

[SgtSpike]

It's really pretty simple to figure this out IMO.

- BFL wanted to fly people to their plant in late october/early november to see their prototypes.
- Their prototype batch of chips didn't work, but they still wanted to show off pics, so they did.
- They ordered up a new batch of chips, this time enough to do a full production run, with fixes in place to correct the issues from the first prototype.
- They delayed the fly-people-to-their-plant thing until they get the new batch of fixed chips in.
- As they are on a second revision of the chip, in all likelihood, it won't have problems.  They will time it so that the two peeps flying in will be able to see a working product running on 2nd-revision chips.  They will also begin assembly that week, assembling enough units to ship out the first batch (maybe a hundred units or something?).

To me, all the evidence points to them fully expecting working prototypes to be in-hand at the end of October, but then something unexpected came up.  I believe that unexpected thing was a bad run of chips, and I believe that's why the only thing they are waiting on for assembly is the new batch of chips.

[squeept]

Based on the provided evidence, I say BFL wins the race. Based on promises alone, bASIC wins.

what evidence are you talking about? PCB photos?  LOL Each amateur electronic engineer can do such a PCB. BFL wins... but in cheating customers about date of shipment   Let them show a working prototype then they will win.

Way to cut out the evidence I was talking about, then ask what evidence I was talking about. Where are any pictures of anything from bASIC? Neither company has shown a working prototype.

Pictures of a PCB doesn't equal a working product.. Both vendors could have issues while working on a "prototype"

Do I really even have to address this? I didn't imply ANYTHING to the contrary.

Yeah the photos of the populated boards(including the damaged chips) with BFL reps stating they didn't have the ASIC chips yet was humorous.

This was implied, but not directly noted in my post.

let's start.

BFL: renders of device, renders of PCB, photos of actual populated PCB

can you run renders of device? no? ok.
yet still no working prototype.

photos of actual cases, photos of assembly equipment verified to be theirs,

remember the "facility inspection"?
yeah, no.

photos of $100K worth of power supplies for mini-rigs, but verified to not have a working prototype as of about 6 weeks ago

ok, actual populated PCBs, shitton of power supplies....and no working prototypes.

y'know, everything are in place, seemed ready to go, but feels like something's going wrong with them.

No proof that either have chips in hand yet. No proof that either have working prototypes. Based on the provided evidence, I say BFL wins the race. Based on promises alone, bASIC wins.

lol.

you just said that bfl has populated pcb. they have at least have a few chips in hand to test them out.

remember, they SHOULD HAVE shipped in october, but apparently they couldn't get shit done.

Let's try again: where did I say BFL has a working device? I specifically stated that neither company has proven that they have a working prototype. How is everyone missing this? I don't know what's up with the facility inspection, but they have provided photos of the building and equipment. I think they said something about not letting anyone in until the facility is up and running, which is pretty pointless (remember to ignore I said that when replying). The populated PCB has dummy chips. BFL has publicly acknowledged this several times.

So, I'll repeat: based on EVIDENCE, BFL is winning. Creativex brings the only valid point to the table out of any of this drivel, in that BFL has a history of delays. That should be factored in with the other evidence. Is there something I missed in the evidence list for bASIC that somehow catapults them to the front?

Let me phrase this a different way that I'm sure will be avoided: HAS BASIC PROVIDED ANY PHYSICAL EVIDENCE? RENDERS? PICTURES OF ASIC DEVICES OR CIRCUIT BOARDS? PRODUCTION EQUIPMENT OR INVENTORY? HAVE THEY PROVIDED ANYTHING AT ALL BESIDES WORDS?

I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if bASIC delivers first, but even if they do, the statement that BFL has shown more evidence is STILL CORRECT.

[squeept]

And in response to whatever ridiculous failure of comprehension follows my posts: read my fucking post again. You're missing something, and probably on purpose. I'm not wasting any more time expanding my explanations to fend off illiteracy.

EDIT FOR REPETITION AND WASTING TIME:
I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if bASIC delivers first, but even if they do, the statement that BFL has shown more evidence is STILL CORRECT.

[Bogart]

What is Plan B?

-----------------------------------------------

This goes for all the other companies not just BFL. (Avalon / bASIC)

At what point is it time to call it quits?

A) Is it when one vendor ships and the one you ordered from is still in a holding pattern?

B) Is it when there are more than 2 delays?

C) Is it when the block halving has taken place?

D) Is it when the mass refunds start for any one vendor? (any of the three companies)

Once one of the vendors begins shipping on-demand without a queue, that will be when most ppl holding a pre-order with any other vendor will cancel and will order from the shipping vendor.

IMO.

[creativex]

If I'd followed through and ordered from BFL<shudder> and I watched bASIC batch 1 orders completely filled, that'd do it for me.