Transgender

[Beliathon]

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

Being reasonable means one forms judgments and arrives at conclusions by a sound process of logic.

A worldview cannot truly be considered reasoned if it includes any superstitious thought, because superstition is fallacious logic.

If one indulges in fallacious or fantastic logic, one cannot claim to be an earnest student of science.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

Yes, I couldn't care less that they have equal rights. This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.). I do not support the ones who want to push their beliefs on us, just as I don't believe Christians should push their beliefs on others. I don't mind discourse, but pushing it and making it against the law to go against someone's beliefs is wrong. Religious freedom was great. We do not seem to have it anymore.

I do think that there are people who want to get rid of all Christians, and you're a great example of that. You claim to be superior, but I feel the hatred of those who follow religion coming from you, and it is detestable, and hypocritical of you to act like you're more tolerant when you clearly are not.

Edit: I see you edited your post, thanks for clearly showing what I wrote was true:

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

[unholycactus]

Did not know scientist was a box we could check off when it came to religion.

Is this supposed to be surprising? Because it's not.

One either has a reasoned (scientific) worldview, or a religious (superstitious) worldview.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

I'd like you to list the shades of grey for this reasoning, because I can't find any.

[Beliathon]

I do think that there are people who want to get rid of all Christians, and you're a great example of that. You claim to be superior, but I feel the hatred of those who follow religion coming from you, and it is detestable, and hypocritical of you to act like you're more tolerant when you clearly are not.

I understand where you're coming from here, but please realize I don't want to "get rid of you". I loathe violence, you see.

I also recognize that modern america is 70% christian and there's nothing I can do about that except wait. I'm relatively young and patient, so be it, I'll wait.

I ask only that you forgive me if I gloat a bit while america slowly becomes a scientific nation. Christianity took my foreskin without my consent, so you kind of owe me.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

I do think that there are people who want to get rid of all Christians, and you're a great example of that. You claim to be superior, but I feel the hatred of those who follow religion coming from you, and it is detestable, and hypocritical of you to act like you're more tolerant when you clearly are not.

I understand where you're coming from here, but please realize I don't want to "get rid of you". I recognize that modern america is 70% christian and there's nothing I can do about that except wait.

So be it, I'll wait. I ask only that you forgive me if I gloat while america slowly becomes a scientific nation.

I addressed your edit above, but by the time I had, this new post was up. You are clearly ignoring the fact that you are just "the pot calling the kettle black."

You clealry love to insult people whom you think you are better than, and if it was homosexuals or transgenders receiving those insults you've thrown out, you'd have a field day with yourself. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.

You are perfectly fine with insulting those you find different than yourself, but get all high and mighty if people say the same thing about homosexuals, etc.

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.

Christianity took my foreskin without my consent, so you kind of owe me.

You'll have to deal with your parents on that issue, I had nothing to do with it.

[Sourgummies]

Did not know scientist was a box we could check off when it came to religion.

Is this supposed to be surprising? Because it's not.

One either has a reasoned (scientific) worldview, or a religious (superstitious) worldview.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

I'd like you to list the shades of grey for this reasoning, because I can't find any.

You want a list but I have no idea what concept of the conversation you are understanding. If you can not see people come from all different walks of life and have blends of both these categories,then we really are pissing in the wind trying to prove a point.

[Racey]

John Wayne  Real name Marion Mitchell Morrison

“A man’s got to do what a man’s got to do.”

Whatever that means, what has a man got to do?

[blablahblah]

whoever is born a man is a man,

Nobody's born a man. Men are made, requiring a solid 20-something years of social conditioning/brainwashing to get out of their ugly ball of baby-fat phase, followed by the ugly child phase, then the teenage bitching phase, before finally fitting into society's man stereotype. It's basically a giant fashion statement.

these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

How do you know you're not? Have you seriously never considered that you might be a space alien trapped in a human suit?

Nonsense.  Here are some facts on birth rates and facts on gender to start with.  You are pushing a political not a biological agenda.

http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

That's where you fail. The physical traits listed in that link are all just that: physical traits, all related to sexual reproduction, nothing to do with gender. You're the one who appears to be flogging a dead horse, i.e.: the outdated political agenda of attaching cultural baggage (male, female, intersex labels and related political classes) to superficial physical characteristics (chromosomes, physical appearance due to hormones and so forth).

Consider this, if instead of measuring genitalia, governments could estimate future populations only by checking the hair colour of newborn babies, then that's exactly what they would put on birth certificates. And we all know that hair colour is complete bullshit in the scheme of things.

[Beliathon]

I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.

The topic we're discussing has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness or which species we are. Think about it.

[jaysabi]

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.).

Is that even a debate topic, or just the thing you believe because you're afraid of gays marrying? I haven't seen anyone proposing to force priests to marry a homosexual couple. Your bigotry and intolerance is between you and your god, and government can't force your religious leaders to perform a religious ceremony they don't want to. If there are fellow Christians pushing for priests to marry gay couples, that's also a topic to be resolved within your religion and the arbitrary rules your religion has designed.

[darkangel11]

Tolerance and acceptance are two different things. I can tolerate the fact that someone wants to change his gender as it's his decision. You want to chop off your donger, be my guest. Will I accept it as something normal and teach my kid that if he ever feels like chopping off his donger it may mean he's really a woman inside and should get on with it? Hell no! I will never accept this as being normal, natural or whatever.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.

The topic we're discussing has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness or which species we are. Think about it.

No, the topic I've always been discussing in this thread was your hypocrisy. The words you wrote, that I have quoted twice in this thread show your disdain and hate, instead of love towards your fellow humans in this world.

This quote also shows disdain:

While religion only provides insight about one's own anus.

Yet, you would be upset with others for having the same disdain and hate of homosexuals that you have for those religious people. This is truly hypocritical, and not tolerant behavior. But I guess you knew that, since you never said you weren't a hypocrite.

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.).

Is that even a debate topic, or just the thing you believe because you're afraid of gays marrying? I haven't seen anyone proposing to force priests to marry a homosexual couple. Your bigotry and intolerance is between you and your god, and government can't force your religious leaders to perform a religious ceremony they don't want to. If there are fellow Christians pushing for priests to marry gay couples, that's also a topic to be resolved within your religion and the arbitrary rules your religion has designed.

That was from a previous thread, where a study showed 1 out of 5 Americans believed priests should be forced to perform something they thought was a sin. You quoted something from a conversation between Beliathon and me, and he knew what I was talking about. I never meant it to be anything against this thread as a whole. And I certainly couldn't care less if (and certainly am not afraid of) homosexuals wanting to marry, more power to them for committing to one person to love for life.

[Beliathon]

Tolerance and acceptance are two different things. I can tolerate the fact that someone wants to change his gender as it's his decision. You want to chop off your donger, be my guest. Will I accept it as something normal and teach my kid that if he ever feels like chopping off his donger it may mean he's really a woman inside and should get on with it? Hell no! I will never accept this as being normal, natural or whatever.

For your sake and that of your children, I hope they're gender-normative and hetero-normative. Careful though, I find the universe often has a cruel sense of humor.

[jaysabi]

I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.

The topic we're discussing has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness or which species we are. Think about it.

No, the topic I've always been discussing in this thread was your hypocrisy. The words you wrote, that I have quoted twice in this thread show your disdain and hate, instead of love towards your fellow humans in this world.

This quote also shows disdain:

While religion only provides insight about one's own anus.

Yet, you would be upset with others for having the same disdain and hate of homosexuals that you have for those religious people. This is truly hypocritical, and not tolerant behavior. But I guess you knew that, since you never said you weren't a hypocrite.

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.).

Is that even a debate topic, or just the thing you believe because you're afraid of gays marrying? I haven't seen anyone proposing to force priests to marry a homosexual couple. Your bigotry and intolerance is between you and your god, and government can't force your religious leaders to perform a religious ceremony they don't want to. If there are fellow Christians pushing for priests to marry gay couples, that's also a topic to be resolved within your religion and the arbitrary rules your religion has designed.

That was from a previous thread, where a study showed 1 out of 5 Americans believed priests should be forced to perform something they thought was a sin. You quoted something from a conversation between Beliathon and me, and he knew what I was talking about. I never meant it to be anything against this thread as a whole. And I certainly couldn't care less if (and certainly am not afraid of) homosexuals wanting to marry, more power to them for committing to one person to love for life.

It seems then I didn't have the proper context. I think any rational person would agree that externally forcing changes on religion is pointless. Religious rules may be arbitrary, but any change has to come from within if it is to be viewed as legitimate. The splintering of religious groups throughout history is precipitated by great internal disagreements about what the rules of the religion should be. When these disagreements reach a critical mass, one group just decides to call themselves something else and adopt the changes they want while still adhering to the other tenets of the faith. I don't find the 1/5 statistic to be inconsistent with this process without further context.

[Spendulus]

....

That's where you fail. The physical traits listed in that link are all just that: physical traits, all related to sexual reproduction, nothing to do with gender. You're the one who appears to be flogging a dead horse, i.e.: the outdated political agenda of attaching cultural baggage (male, female, intersex labels and related political classes) to superficial physical characteristics (chromosomes, physical appearance due to hormones and so forth).....

Bah, blah.

That's where you start, not what you ignore.

Of course, you can ignore whatever you want.

[Wilikon]

Cis Drag Queens Banned From Pride Event Because They May Offend Trans People


Maybe complete and total inclusivity isn’t as easy as it sounds.

The organizers of Free Pride Glasgow in Scotland have hit a snag in their mission to plan a totally inclusive event:
Some activists think drag queens are offensive to transgender people, others think banning drag queens is offensive to transgender drag queens, and still others think allowing only transgender drag queens is offensive to cisgender drag queens.

Whoa.

Although drag performances had been part of Free Pride Glasgow for years, the event organizers announced in a statement on Saturday that they would not be allowing them this year because some transgender individuals found “some drag performance, particularly cis drag,” to be offensive because it “hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke.”


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421402/drag-queens-banned-scotland-pride

[TECSHARE]

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

See its not good enough if you are religious and tolerant, because he is intolerant of you and your beliefs. He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism), regardless of how peaceful you are and how much you mind your own business.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

Being reasonable means one forms judgments and arrives at conclusions by a sound process of logic.

A worldview cannot truly be considered reasoned if it includes any superstitious thought, because superstition is fallacious logic.

If one indulges in fallacious or fantastic logic, one cannot claim to be an earnest student of science.

A lot of very well respected and famous scientists were/are religious. Maybe you should double check your bias with actual history. For some one such as yourself who claims to be "an earnest student of science" you sure are allergic to posting scientific studies to support your dogmas which, in effect unsupported with scientific studies, have no more scientific validity than religion.

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.

Well, the question might be what would Christ have thought if he had encountered the opinionated, arrogant Pink Mafia of today.

Got a feeling "infinite compassion" would not have applied...more like his little encounter with the money changers in the temple, that's my opinion.

Then as now, usury was predatory and cruel. Your messiah probably recognized that, if the temple story is true.

There is nothing cruel or predatory about strangers sharing orgasms in ways your invisible sky father doesn't approve. It doesn't affect you. Christian hatred of homosexuality does affect gay american teens though,  to the point that they're three times as likely to commit suicide as straight teens.

Being an atheist, I have no interest in your mission of hate. 

You keep being an atheist, I prefer to stick to just being a scientist, spreading the message of reason.

While it's true that reason doesn't tolerate superstition, that doesn't make it hateful, it only makes it reasonable. Reason and superstition are like oil and water, they can never mix, can never occupy the same space.

Ignorance creates fear, fear creates hatred, hatred creates violence. Superstition fuels ignorance and impedes knowledge, reason fuels knowledge and impedes ignorance.

Imagine the world as a cup which started "empty", with only air. Slowly, the cup is being filled with the "water" of reason. The more reason we add, the less room there is for violence. Once the cup is full...

Anyone who doesn't agree with liathon is automatically a theist. He has religious ESP and can determine your belief system via osmosis didn't you know?  You demand acceptance for people of different gender identities, but some how being intolerant of religion is the only reasonable option you claim. Not hypocritical at all. Freedom of religion is a right, just like defining your own gender identity is a right. When religious people don't accept homosexuality, suddenly it is bigotry, but when you are intolerant of religion, it is only reasonable right? Not double standards at all.

[rokkyroad]

Have no issue with how people proceed in life as long as its not hurting others.

The violence aspect is sad and I read a large segment of the homeless youth fall into the LGBT fold as well.

My axe is not with the individual as much as the movement.

Here are some examples off the top of my head:

Fights over bathrooms and who has the right to use what bathroom.
A transgender locally trying to get sex removed from birth certification and drivers licenses
Teachers forcing kids to try on the other sex role and dress up
Parents wanting to be able to change the sex of their children under the age of six

These movements are fine,but these always try to grab more then they should and start stepping on people toes in the process.
Its the same issue I have with GreenPeace,Enviromentalism,Vegans,NoBorders and like groups. There is a segment that will keep pushing
till we all are thinking wtf happened here!

Well said.

Why do these types of things always have to be shoved down everyone's throats? Live and let live is not enough.

I don't care what people do or how they live but please do not expect me to clap my hands for joy.  It seems us non-clappers are bad people because we don't want to jump on the transgender(or whatever) bandwagon. 

[Beliathon]

He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism)

Jesus Christ, how does a person even get to be this retarded? I can't even...

Marxism is a political worldview and has nothing to do with religion one way or the other.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

I apologize to the thread creator, this will be off topic.

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

See its not good enough if you are religious and tolerant, because he is intolerant of you and your beliefs. He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism), regardless of how peaceful you are and how much you mind your own business.

I've pointed out his hypocrisy in every post of mine on this thread. He is clearly not denying it. How could he? He is not a tolerant person, no matter how much he would like to think he is.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

Being reasonable means one forms judgments and arrives at conclusions by a sound process of logic.

A worldview cannot truly be considered reasoned if it includes any superstitious thought, because superstition is fallacious logic.

If one indulges in fallacious or fantastic logic, one cannot claim to be an earnest student of science.

A lot of very well respected and famous scientists were/are religious. Maybe you should double check your bias with actual history. For some one such as yourself who claims to be "an earnest student of science" you sure are allergic to posting scientific studies to support your dogmas which, in effect unsupported with scientific studies, have no more scientific validity than religion.

Beliathon has shed some light on this in the last few weeks. It has come to my attention, thanks to him, that there is a certain group of people who believe science to be their religion. I don't know when it got turned into a religion. Obviously some scientists believe in God, or are at least agnostic.

But with the disdain and hate he has for any religion, and the fact that he can not believe someone can come to a logical choice that there could be an intelligent designer without a religion, shows to me he has blinders on; he's holding onto his belief that there is no creator because he believes in science to the point that he will block things out. I truly believe he worships science as a religion. He has way too much faith in the scientists to come to all the right answers and that the answer will be there there is no God.

Guess what Beliathon? The scientists don't know this yet! They are working at CERN trying to figure out why the big bang happened the way it supposedly did. By their own theories it should have happened differently, so we know their theories are incorrect in some way.

"Dirac interpreted the equation to mean that for every particle there exists a corresponding antiparticle, exactly matching the particle but with opposite charge. For the electron there should be an "antielectron", for example, identical in every way but with a positive electric charge. The insight opened the possibility of entire galaxies and universes made of antimatter.

But when matter and antimatter come into contact, they annihilate – disappearing in a flash of energy. The big bang should have created equal amounts of matter and antimatter. So why is there far more matter than antimatter in the universe?" -- CERN's page on antimatter

What will happen if they figure out God or an Intelligent Designer created it and that's why there is more matter than anti-matter in the world, when scientifically that should not have happened?