Transgender

[Sourgummies]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?
I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

The gay population is small and I imagine the transgender pop to be even smaller. Yet we have a movement to push their agenda on us to till they feel comfortable.
Jenner has killed some one and that seems to be pushed to the side because the transgenders need a voice.

Find it to be a interesting subject due to all the dark rabbit holes you can go down.

[1714873132]

1714873132

[1714873132]

1714873132

[Wilikon]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?
I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

The gay population is small and I imagine the transgender pop to be even smaller. Yet we have a movement to push their agenda on us to till they feel comfortable.
Jenner has killed some one and that seems to be pushed to the side because the transgenders need a voice.

Find it to be a interesting subject due to all the dark rabbit holes you can go down.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/peter-berg-receives-backlash-shot-caitlyn-jenner-article-1.2294351


http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/07/bruce-jenner-fatal-car-accident-pacific-coast-highway-malibu-photo-dead/


Watch out what you say. And remember the quote from the book Animal Farm: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

 

[cooldgamer]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?

Sexual orientation and gender identity are totally different issues.  Some like men, some like women, some even like neither.

I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

Cross dressing is either sexual, or an outlet for the feminine side in some cases.  Being trans is feeling like you're in the wrong body.  Crossdressers don't get depressed when they look down because they think they're something else.

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?
I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

The gay population is small and I imagine the transgender pop to be even smaller. Yet we have a movement to push their agenda on us to till they feel comfortable.

What's wrong with everybody feeling comfortable?  People shouldn't be assholes no matter what the situation, and this subset of the population gets a lot of them.

Jenner has killed some one and that seems to be pushed to the side because the transgenders need a voice.

Find it to be a interesting subject due to all the dark rabbit holes you can go down.

Not all transpeople even like what she's doing, but nonetheless people are eating it up so might as well make the most of it.

[Wilikon]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?

Sexual orientation and gender identity are totally different issues.  Some like men, some like women, some even like neither.

I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

Cross dressing is either sexual, or an outlet for the feminine side in some cases.  Being trans is feeling like you're in the wrong body.  Crossdressers don't get depressed when they look down because they think they're something else.

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?
I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

The gay population is small and I imagine the transgender pop to be even smaller. Yet we have a movement to push their agenda on us to till they feel comfortable.

What's wrong with everybody feeling comfortable?  People shouldn't be assholes no matter what the situation, and this subset of the population gets a lot of them.

Jenner has killed some one and that seems to be pushed to the side because the transgenders need a voice.

Find it to be a interesting subject due to all the dark rabbit holes you can go down.

Not all transpeople even like what she's doing, but nonetheless people are eating it up so might as well make the most of it.

Hence... "Some animals are more equal than others." I doubt you would still be free, accepting an award on television, being watched live by the family members of the loved one you've killed...

It is a good thing to have friends in the political arena, police investigation, etc. Too bad for those who do not. Might as well make the most of it...

[BADecker]

Right.

Generally, one of the same-sex partners is more masculine, and the other is more feminine.

Let the more masculine of the male couple get together with the more feminine of the female couple, and let the more masculine of the female couple get together with the more feminine of the male couple, and things are back to normal... the way they should be.

 

[Ghris]

Right.

Generally, one of the same-sex partners is more masculine, and the other is more feminine.

Let the more masculine of the male couple get together with the more feminine of the female couple, and let the more masculine of the female couple get together with the more feminine of the male couple, and things are back to normal... the way they should be.

 

Trolling or what?

I think everyone should be able to do whatever the fuck they want. Unless childs or something are involved, it is just two consenting adults doing what they want/love. Nothing wrong with that.

[IBGigglin]

Watch the John Oliver Episode of Last Week Tonight about. He explains it well I think, he kinda opens your perspective to things you might not think normally consider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmoAX9f6MOc

[Wilikon]

Watch the John Oliver Episode of Last Week Tonight about. He explains it well I think, he kinda opens your perspective to things you might not think normally consider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmoAX9f6MOc

 ...He kinda opens your perspective to things you might not think normally consider.


nice pun...

 

[Sourgummies]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?

Sexual orientation and gender identity are totally different issues.  Some like men, some like women, some even like neither.

I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

Cross dressing is either sexual, or an outlet for the feminine side in some cases.  Being trans is feeling like you're in the wrong body.  Crossdressers don't get depressed when they look down because they think they're something else.

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?
I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

The gay population is small and I imagine the transgender pop to be even smaller. Yet we have a movement to push their agenda on us to till they feel comfortable.

What's wrong with everybody feeling comfortable?  People shouldn't be assholes no matter what the situation, and this subset of the population gets a lot of them.

Jenner has killed some one and that seems to be pushed to the side because the transgenders need a voice.

Find it to be a interesting subject due to all the dark rabbit holes you can go down.

Not all transpeople even like what she's doing, but nonetheless people are eating it up so might as well make the most of it.

Comfort will always come at a price. The problem is the cost adds up like taxes and eventually everyone is being squeezed. If you ask me it a great smoke and mirrors game to get society to strip themselves of their rights. Go green,go vegan,go free trade and it all slowly eats away at our freedoms.

[Spendulus]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. ....

Because if continually, enough crappy non issues like this are tossed into the public arena, and they are told this is very important, nobody can ever get around to the real issues.

Like all the money they are printing.

[PenguinFire]

Yes, it is not normal in this day and age but who you are or the government going to see they can't been they are not hurting anyone?  The right in America talk about very limited government excluding when it comes to your body and social issues that also hurt no one.

[Beliathon]

Last Week Tonight - Transgender Rights

[saddampbuh]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

[blablahblah]

whoever is born a man is a man,

Nobody's born a man. Men are made, requiring a solid 20-something years of social conditioning/brainwashing to get out of their ugly ball of baby-fat phase, followed by the ugly child phase, then the teenage bitching phase, before finally fitting into society's man stereotype. It's basically a giant fashion statement.

these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

How do you know you're not? Have you seriously never considered that you might be a space alien trapped in a human suit?

[cooldgamer]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Men and women can both live satisfying lives and be functioning members of society, ducks and aliens.... Not so much.  I'd feel bad for anybody with dysphoria making them think they are one of the above, thankfully nobody does.

We do have treatment, its called transition.  Many choose to go with just therapy instead, its whatever works best for the person.

[Ghris]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Based on your avatar, message and signature, you seem a very nice and enjoyable person. I wish I could hug you to death.

[panju1]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Doctors are a part of the problem. They suggest surgery to "release" a person's inner sexual being.
Just because sex change operations are an option, transgenders consider them.

[TECSHARE]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?
I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

The gay population is small and I imagine the transgender pop to be even smaller. Yet we have a movement to push their agenda on us to till they feel comfortable.

What's wrong with everybody feeling comfortable?  People shouldn't be assholes no matter what the situation, and this subset of the population gets a lot of them.

The problem is not everyone is comfortable with this. Being an asshole is a long respected American right and past time enshrined in the constitution. Can you tell me any other subset of the population that has protection from people "being assholes"? This is not equality, this is supremacy. Homosexuals and transgender people have equality to a very large extent in the US, but these activist groups would be redundant if they admitted that now wouldn't they?

Now they are trying to force the population to agree with and support their world views, and this they DO NOT have a right to do. Just like gays have a right to laugh at how stupid bible thumpers are, those bible thumpers are also free to have their own opinions of homosexuals and transgender people. Tolerance is not equivalent to acceptance. Homosexuals have a right to tolerance (like everyone else), no one has a right to acceptance - this is just reality for everyone.

[ummina]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. If you are a male wanting to be a female,which sex are you attracted to? Does that even factor in?
I read or heard that most cross dressers tend to be straight,its just a fetish but the transgender as far as I know goes past dressing up.

The gay population is small and I imagine the transgender pop to be even smaller. Yet we have a movement to push their agenda on us to till they feel comfortable.
Jenner has killed some one and that seems to be pushed to the side because the transgenders need a voice.

Find it to be a interesting subject due to all the dark rabbit holes you can go down.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/peter-berg-receives-backlash-shot-caitlyn-jenner-article-1.2294351


http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/07/bruce-jenner-fatal-car-accident-pacific-coast-highway-malibu-photo-dead/


Watch out what you say. And remember the quote from the book Animal Farm: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

 

may be everypeople wants to expretion the what its they want.
but, i don't agree with this choice. cause God born you with your destiny have readed by God.
be yourself, but not change what the God give to your body.  if i thing like that.

[Sourgummies]

Has little to do with god and more to do with wiring of the brain. I can except most things as long as they do not tearing up my backyard to make themselves feel comfortable.

[Sourgummies]

Have no issue with how people proceed in life as long as its not hurting others.

The violence aspect is sad and I read a large segment of the homeless youth fall into the LGBT fold as well.

My axe is not with the individual as much as the movement.

Here are some examples off the top of my head:

Fights over bathrooms and who has the right to use what bathroom.
A transgender locally trying to get sex removed from birth certification and drivers licenses
Teachers forcing kids to try on the other sex role and dress up
Parents wanting to be able to change the sex of their children under the age of six

These movements are fine,but these always try to grab more then they should and start stepping on people toes in the process.
Its the same issue I have with GreenPeace,Enviromentalism,Vegans,NoBorders and like groups. There is a segment that will keep pushing
till we all are thinking wtf happened here!

[Sourgummies]

Above post was in reference to Cooldgamer and his link to this site and a pdf there. Which was erased for some reason.

http://www.avp.org/

[saddampbuh]

not[/i]? Have you seriously never considered that you might be a space alien trapped in a human suit?

am half greek and our gods were extraterrestrials who mixed their dna with humans so i guess its sort of true

[Spendulus]

whoever is born a man is a man,

Nobody's born a man. Men are made, requiring a solid 20-something years of social conditioning/brainwashing to get out of their ugly ball of baby-fat phase, followed by the ugly child phase, then the teenage bitching phase, before finally fitting into society's man stereotype. It's basically a giant fashion statement.

these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

How do you know you're not? Have you seriously never considered that you might be a space alien trapped in a human suit?

Nonsense.  Here are some facts on birth rates and facts on gender to start with.  You are pushing a political not a biological agenda.

http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

[Beliathon]

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

[Sourgummies]

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.

[Spendulus]

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.

Well, the question might be what would Christ have thought if he had encountered the opinionated, arrogant Pink Mafia of today.

Got a feeling "infinite compassion" would not have applied...more like his little encounter with the money changers in the temple, that's my opinion.

Regardless, Bel's attempts at lecturing on the interest are just plain boring.

[Beliathon]

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.

Well, the question might be what would Christ have thought if he had encountered the opinionated, arrogant Pink Mafia of today.

Got a feeling "infinite compassion" would not have applied...more like his little encounter with the money changers in the temple, that's my opinion.

Then as now, usury was predatory and cruel. Your messiah probably recognized that, if the temple story is true.

There is nothing cruel or predatory about strangers sharing orgasms in ways your invisible sky father doesn't approve. It doesn't affect you. Christian hatred of homosexuality does affect gay american teens though,  to the point that they're three times as likely to commit suicide as straight teens.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Christian hatred

Christian hatred is an oxymoron.

[Sourgummies]

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.

Well, the question might be what would Christ have thought if he had encountered the opinionated, arrogant Pink Mafia of today.

Got a feeling "infinite compassion" would not have applied...more like his little encounter with the money changers in the temple, that's my opinion.

Then as now, usury was predatory and cruel. Your messiah probably recognized that, if the temple story is true.

There is nothing cruel or predatory about strangers sharing orgasms in ways your invisible sky father doesn't approve. It doesn't affect you. Christian hatred of homosexuality does affect gay american teens though,  to the point that they're three times as likely to commit suicide as straight teens.

Nice try I am a atheist. Least till the last breath and maybe I might cover all bases. Never know till the lights go out.

[Wilikon]

BE AFRAID: MEDIA GLOSSES OVER REPEATED THREATS OF VIOLENCE FROM LGBT-ER


In a free society we understand, cherish and protect the right of speech. All kinds of speech. Primarily offensive speech with which we disagree. In order to remain civilized, we draw a big red line between speech and violence. This includes threats of violence. Once violence or threats of violence become accepted, we are no longer a civil society. The media collective glossing over Zoey Tur’s threats of physical violence against Breitbart’s Ben Shapiro should worry all of us.

During a Thursday evening appearance on HLN’s “Dr. Drew On Call,” Shapiro and Tur (a man who identifies as a woman) got into a heated exchange over biology. Like many of us, Shapiro could not care less how anyone defines one’s self, but he will not be shamed or bullied into the sharing the delusion of another’s personal self-expression. A man is a man. A woman is a woman. During their exchange, Shapiro referred to Tur as “sir,” and only then was the red line crossed.

Before Tur physically threatened Shapiro, the exchange was just the usual-usual cable news fodder. Then Tur went way over the line; he physically grabbed Shapiro’s neck and seethed,  “You cut that out now, or you’ll go home in an ambulance.”

According to Shapiro, Tur threatened him again after the show. HLN staffers were concerned enough to walk Shapiro to his car but only after they were sure Tur had left the premises. The next day on social media, Tur threatened to “curb-stomp” Shapiro — threatened a Jewish man with an act associated with Neo-Nazis.

There is no question that Tur’s behavior is out of line, maybe criminal, and a possible symptom of an unstable mind (many in the medical community believe the transgendered are mentally ill). Frustrated by science-based facts and having no fact-based counter-point, Tur turned to violence. We’ve seen this before. We will again. Individual bullies are no reason to wake the whole town with the church bell.

What is cause for alarm is when our media glosses over and even celebrates the crossing of the line from speech to threats of violence — which is exactly what our media did.

Many in our media either covered up Tur’s threats of violence with headlines that turned the exchange into a “heated” moral equivalence, or outright attacked Shapiro.

A sampling:

Salon: Ben Shapiro tries — and spectacularly fails — to humiliate trans woman Zoey Tur:

Mediaite: Ben Shapiro and Transgender Reporter Get Heated on HLN

HLN(!): The moment this transgender debate got heated

The Wrap: Transgender Journalist, Breitbart Editor Nearly Come to Blows During Caitlyn Jenner Debate

Some in the media covered the story accurately. Most of the media ignored the story entirely, almost certainly because the story was inconvenient to the media’s ongoing left-wing agenda.

There is no question that had Shapiro grabbed Tur’s neck and later used social media  to threaten to “curb-stomp” him, that Shapiro’s career would be over today because the story would be the biggest media storm in the country.

But because Tur is a member of a protected status — LGBT — almost all of the media is either ignoring, excusing, glossing over, and even cheering unacceptable violent behavior — because in their minds “the target” is the “correct” one.

If you want another science-based fact… Tur’s violent behavior and the media either looking the other way or championing it based solely on the identity of the bully and the identity of the victim is something right out of the early days of Nazi Germany.

What happened between Tur and Shapiro, and more importantly the media’s reaction to it, is a canary in a coalmine.

The Left’s push for gay rights was never about live and let live.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/07/18/be-afraid-media-glosses-over-repeated-threats-of-violence-from-lgbt-er/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Equality or superiority...?

[Sourgummies]

Would think if you had gender issues,you would also have other life issues that tag a long for the ride.
May create this whole mask of yourself till you eventually are prepared to come out.

[Beliathon]

Christian hatred

Christian hatred is an oxymoron.

[Spendulus]

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.

Well, the question might be what would Christ have thought if he had encountered the opinionated, arrogant Pink Mafia of today.

Got a feeling "infinite compassion" would not have applied...more like his little encounter with the money changers in the temple, that's my opinion.

Then as now, usury was predatory and cruel. Your messiah probably recognized that, if the temple story is true.

There is nothing cruel or predatory about strangers sharing orgasms in ways your invisible sky father doesn't approve. It doesn't affect you. Christian hatred of homosexuality does affect gay american teens though,  to the point that they're three times as likely to commit suicide as straight teens.

Being an atheist, I have no interest in your mission of hate. 

[Beliathon]

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.

Well, the question might be what would Christ have thought if he had encountered the opinionated, arrogant Pink Mafia of today.

Got a feeling "infinite compassion" would not have applied...more like his little encounter with the money changers in the temple, that's my opinion.

Then as now, usury was predatory and cruel. Your messiah probably recognized that, if the temple story is true.

There is nothing cruel or predatory about strangers sharing orgasms in ways your invisible sky father doesn't approve. It doesn't affect you. Christian hatred of homosexuality does affect gay american teens though,  to the point that they're three times as likely to commit suicide as straight teens.

Being an atheist, I have no interest in your mission of hate.  

You keep being an atheist, I prefer to stick to just being a scientist, spreading the message of reason.

While it's true that reason doesn't tolerate superstition, that doesn't make it hateful, it only makes it reasonable. Reason and superstition are like oil and water, they can never mix, can never occupy the same space.

Ignorance creates fear, fear creates hatred, hatred creates violence. Superstition fuels ignorance and impedes knowledge, reason fuels knowledge and impedes ignorance.

Imagine the world as a cup which started "empty", with only air. Slowly, the cup is being filled with the "water" of reason. The more reason we add, the less room there is for violence. Once the cup is full...

[Sourgummies]

Did not know scientist was a box we could check off when it came to religion.

[Beliathon]

Did not know scientist was a box we could check off when it came to religion.

Is this supposed to be surprising? Because it's not.

One either has a reasoned (scientific) worldview, or a religious (superstitious) worldview.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Christian hatred

Christian hatred is an oxymoron.

Exactly. Christianity is not about hate.

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

[Beliathon]

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

[Sourgummies]

Did not know scientist was a box we could check off when it came to religion.

Is this supposed to be surprising? Because it's not.

One either has a reasoned (scientific) worldview, or a religious (superstitious) worldview.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

[Beliathon]

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

Being reasonable means one forms judgments and arrives at conclusions by a sound process of logic.

A worldview cannot truly be considered reasoned if it includes any superstitious thought, because superstition is fallacious logic.

If one indulges in fallacious or fantastic logic, one cannot claim to be an earnest student of science.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

Yes, I couldn't care less that they have equal rights. This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.). I do not support the ones who want to push their beliefs on us, just as I don't believe Christians should push their beliefs on others. I don't mind discourse, but pushing it and making it against the law to go against someone's beliefs is wrong. Religious freedom was great. We do not seem to have it anymore.

I do think that there are people who want to get rid of all Christians, and you're a great example of that. You claim to be superior, but I feel the hatred of those who follow religion coming from you, and it is detestable, and hypocritical of you to act like you're more tolerant when you clearly are not.

Edit: I see you edited your post, thanks for clearly showing what I wrote was true:

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

[unholycactus]

Did not know scientist was a box we could check off when it came to religion.

Is this supposed to be surprising? Because it's not.

One either has a reasoned (scientific) worldview, or a religious (superstitious) worldview.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

I'd like you to list the shades of grey for this reasoning, because I can't find any.

[Beliathon]

I do think that there are people who want to get rid of all Christians, and you're a great example of that. You claim to be superior, but I feel the hatred of those who follow religion coming from you, and it is detestable, and hypocritical of you to act like you're more tolerant when you clearly are not.

I understand where you're coming from here, but please realize I don't want to "get rid of you". I loathe violence, you see.

I also recognize that modern america is 70% christian and there's nothing I can do about that except wait. I'm relatively young and patient, so be it, I'll wait.

I ask only that you forgive me if I gloat a bit while america slowly becomes a scientific nation. Christianity took my foreskin without my consent, so you kind of owe me.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

I do think that there are people who want to get rid of all Christians, and you're a great example of that. You claim to be superior, but I feel the hatred of those who follow religion coming from you, and it is detestable, and hypocritical of you to act like you're more tolerant when you clearly are not.

I understand where you're coming from here, but please realize I don't want to "get rid of you". I recognize that modern america is 70% christian and there's nothing I can do about that except wait.

So be it, I'll wait. I ask only that you forgive me if I gloat while america slowly becomes a scientific nation.

I addressed your edit above, but by the time I had, this new post was up. You are clearly ignoring the fact that you are just "the pot calling the kettle black."

You clealry love to insult people whom you think you are better than, and if it was homosexuals or transgenders receiving those insults you've thrown out, you'd have a field day with yourself. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.

You are perfectly fine with insulting those you find different than yourself, but get all high and mighty if people say the same thing about homosexuals, etc.

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.

Christianity took my foreskin without my consent, so you kind of owe me.

You'll have to deal with your parents on that issue, I had nothing to do with it.

[Sourgummies]

Did not know scientist was a box we could check off when it came to religion.

Is this supposed to be surprising? Because it's not.

One either has a reasoned (scientific) worldview, or a religious (superstitious) worldview.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

I'd like you to list the shades of grey for this reasoning, because I can't find any.

You want a list but I have no idea what concept of the conversation you are understanding. If you can not see people come from all different walks of life and have blends of both these categories,then we really are pissing in the wind trying to prove a point.

[Racey]

John Wayne  Real name Marion Mitchell Morrison

“A man’s got to do what a man’s got to do.”

Whatever that means, what has a man got to do?

[blablahblah]

whoever is born a man is a man,

Nobody's born a man. Men are made, requiring a solid 20-something years of social conditioning/brainwashing to get out of their ugly ball of baby-fat phase, followed by the ugly child phase, then the teenage bitching phase, before finally fitting into society's man stereotype. It's basically a giant fashion statement.

these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

How do you know you're not? Have you seriously never considered that you might be a space alien trapped in a human suit?

Nonsense.  Here are some facts on birth rates and facts on gender to start with.  You are pushing a political not a biological agenda.

http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

That's where you fail. The physical traits listed in that link are all just that: physical traits, all related to sexual reproduction, nothing to do with gender. You're the one who appears to be flogging a dead horse, i.e.: the outdated political agenda of attaching cultural baggage (male, female, intersex labels and related political classes) to superficial physical characteristics (chromosomes, physical appearance due to hormones and so forth).

Consider this, if instead of measuring genitalia, governments could estimate future populations only by checking the hair colour of newborn babies, then that's exactly what they would put on birth certificates. And we all know that hair colour is complete bullshit in the scheme of things.

[Beliathon]

I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.

The topic we're discussing has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness or which species we are. Think about it.

[jaysabi]

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.).

Is that even a debate topic, or just the thing you believe because you're afraid of gays marrying? I haven't seen anyone proposing to force priests to marry a homosexual couple. Your bigotry and intolerance is between you and your god, and government can't force your religious leaders to perform a religious ceremony they don't want to. If there are fellow Christians pushing for priests to marry gay couples, that's also a topic to be resolved within your religion and the arbitrary rules your religion has designed.

[darkangel11]

Tolerance and acceptance are two different things. I can tolerate the fact that someone wants to change his gender as it's his decision. You want to chop off your donger, be my guest. Will I accept it as something normal and teach my kid that if he ever feels like chopping off his donger it may mean he's really a woman inside and should get on with it? Hell no! I will never accept this as being normal, natural or whatever.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.

The topic we're discussing has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness or which species we are. Think about it.

No, the topic I've always been discussing in this thread was your hypocrisy. The words you wrote, that I have quoted twice in this thread show your disdain and hate, instead of love towards your fellow humans in this world.

This quote also shows disdain:

While religion only provides insight about one's own anus.

Yet, you would be upset with others for having the same disdain and hate of homosexuals that you have for those religious people. This is truly hypocritical, and not tolerant behavior. But I guess you knew that, since you never said you weren't a hypocrite.

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.).

Is that even a debate topic, or just the thing you believe because you're afraid of gays marrying? I haven't seen anyone proposing to force priests to marry a homosexual couple. Your bigotry and intolerance is between you and your god, and government can't force your religious leaders to perform a religious ceremony they don't want to. If there are fellow Christians pushing for priests to marry gay couples, that's also a topic to be resolved within your religion and the arbitrary rules your religion has designed.

That was from a previous thread, where a study showed 1 out of 5 Americans believed priests should be forced to perform something they thought was a sin. You quoted something from a conversation between Beliathon and me, and he knew what I was talking about. I never meant it to be anything against this thread as a whole. And I certainly couldn't care less if (and certainly am not afraid of) homosexuals wanting to marry, more power to them for committing to one person to love for life.

[Beliathon]

Tolerance and acceptance are two different things. I can tolerate the fact that someone wants to change his gender as it's his decision. You want to chop off your donger, be my guest. Will I accept it as something normal and teach my kid that if he ever feels like chopping off his donger it may mean he's really a woman inside and should get on with it? Hell no! I will never accept this as being normal, natural or whatever.

For your sake and that of your children, I hope they're gender-normative and hetero-normative. Careful though, I find the universe often has a cruel sense of humor.

[jaysabi]

I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.

The topic we're discussing has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness or which species we are. Think about it.

No, the topic I've always been discussing in this thread was your hypocrisy. The words you wrote, that I have quoted twice in this thread show your disdain and hate, instead of love towards your fellow humans in this world.

This quote also shows disdain:

While religion only provides insight about one's own anus.

Yet, you would be upset with others for having the same disdain and hate of homosexuals that you have for those religious people. This is truly hypocritical, and not tolerant behavior. But I guess you knew that, since you never said you weren't a hypocrite.

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.).

Is that even a debate topic, or just the thing you believe because you're afraid of gays marrying? I haven't seen anyone proposing to force priests to marry a homosexual couple. Your bigotry and intolerance is between you and your god, and government can't force your religious leaders to perform a religious ceremony they don't want to. If there are fellow Christians pushing for priests to marry gay couples, that's also a topic to be resolved within your religion and the arbitrary rules your religion has designed.

That was from a previous thread, where a study showed 1 out of 5 Americans believed priests should be forced to perform something they thought was a sin. You quoted something from a conversation between Beliathon and me, and he knew what I was talking about. I never meant it to be anything against this thread as a whole. And I certainly couldn't care less if (and certainly am not afraid of) homosexuals wanting to marry, more power to them for committing to one person to love for life.

It seems then I didn't have the proper context. I think any rational person would agree that externally forcing changes on religion is pointless. Religious rules may be arbitrary, but any change has to come from within if it is to be viewed as legitimate. The splintering of religious groups throughout history is precipitated by great internal disagreements about what the rules of the religion should be. When these disagreements reach a critical mass, one group just decides to call themselves something else and adopt the changes they want while still adhering to the other tenets of the faith. I don't find the 1/5 statistic to be inconsistent with this process without further context.

[Spendulus]

....

That's where you fail. The physical traits listed in that link are all just that: physical traits, all related to sexual reproduction, nothing to do with gender. You're the one who appears to be flogging a dead horse, i.e.: the outdated political agenda of attaching cultural baggage (male, female, intersex labels and related political classes) to superficial physical characteristics (chromosomes, physical appearance due to hormones and so forth).....

Bah, blah.

That's where you start, not what you ignore.

Of course, you can ignore whatever you want.

[Wilikon]

Cis Drag Queens Banned From Pride Event Because They May Offend Trans People


Maybe complete and total inclusivity isn’t as easy as it sounds.

The organizers of Free Pride Glasgow in Scotland have hit a snag in their mission to plan a totally inclusive event:
Some activists think drag queens are offensive to transgender people, others think banning drag queens is offensive to transgender drag queens, and still others think allowing only transgender drag queens is offensive to cisgender drag queens.

Whoa.

Although drag performances had been part of Free Pride Glasgow for years, the event organizers announced in a statement on Saturday that they would not be allowing them this year because some transgender individuals found “some drag performance, particularly cis drag,” to be offensive because it “hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke.”


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421402/drag-queens-banned-scotland-pride

[TECSHARE]

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

See its not good enough if you are religious and tolerant, because he is intolerant of you and your beliefs. He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism), regardless of how peaceful you are and how much you mind your own business.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

Being reasonable means one forms judgments and arrives at conclusions by a sound process of logic.

A worldview cannot truly be considered reasoned if it includes any superstitious thought, because superstition is fallacious logic.

If one indulges in fallacious or fantastic logic, one cannot claim to be an earnest student of science.

A lot of very well respected and famous scientists were/are religious. Maybe you should double check your bias with actual history. For some one such as yourself who claims to be "an earnest student of science" you sure are allergic to posting scientific studies to support your dogmas which, in effect unsupported with scientific studies, have no more scientific validity than religion.

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.

Well, the question might be what would Christ have thought if he had encountered the opinionated, arrogant Pink Mafia of today.

Got a feeling "infinite compassion" would not have applied...more like his little encounter with the money changers in the temple, that's my opinion.

Then as now, usury was predatory and cruel. Your messiah probably recognized that, if the temple story is true.

There is nothing cruel or predatory about strangers sharing orgasms in ways your invisible sky father doesn't approve. It doesn't affect you. Christian hatred of homosexuality does affect gay american teens though,  to the point that they're three times as likely to commit suicide as straight teens.

Being an atheist, I have no interest in your mission of hate. 

You keep being an atheist, I prefer to stick to just being a scientist, spreading the message of reason.

While it's true that reason doesn't tolerate superstition, that doesn't make it hateful, it only makes it reasonable. Reason and superstition are like oil and water, they can never mix, can never occupy the same space.

Ignorance creates fear, fear creates hatred, hatred creates violence. Superstition fuels ignorance and impedes knowledge, reason fuels knowledge and impedes ignorance.

Imagine the world as a cup which started "empty", with only air. Slowly, the cup is being filled with the "water" of reason. The more reason we add, the less room there is for violence. Once the cup is full...

Anyone who doesn't agree with liathon is automatically a theist. He has religious ESP and can determine your belief system via osmosis didn't you know?  You demand acceptance for people of different gender identities, but some how being intolerant of religion is the only reasonable option you claim. Not hypocritical at all. Freedom of religion is a right, just like defining your own gender identity is a right. When religious people don't accept homosexuality, suddenly it is bigotry, but when you are intolerant of religion, it is only reasonable right? Not double standards at all.

[rokkyroad]

Have no issue with how people proceed in life as long as its not hurting others.

The violence aspect is sad and I read a large segment of the homeless youth fall into the LGBT fold as well.

My axe is not with the individual as much as the movement.

Here are some examples off the top of my head:

Fights over bathrooms and who has the right to use what bathroom.
A transgender locally trying to get sex removed from birth certification and drivers licenses
Teachers forcing kids to try on the other sex role and dress up
Parents wanting to be able to change the sex of their children under the age of six

These movements are fine,but these always try to grab more then they should and start stepping on people toes in the process.
Its the same issue I have with GreenPeace,Enviromentalism,Vegans,NoBorders and like groups. There is a segment that will keep pushing
till we all are thinking wtf happened here!

Well said.

Why do these types of things always have to be shoved down everyone's throats? Live and let live is not enough.

I don't care what people do or how they live but please do not expect me to clap my hands for joy.  It seems us non-clappers are bad people because we don't want to jump on the transgender(or whatever) bandwagon. 

[Beliathon]

He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism)

Jesus Christ, how does a person even get to be this retarded? I can't even...

Marxism is a political worldview and has nothing to do with religion one way or the other.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

I apologize to the thread creator, this will be off topic.

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.

Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

See its not good enough if you are religious and tolerant, because he is intolerant of you and your beliefs. He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism), regardless of how peaceful you are and how much you mind your own business.

I've pointed out his hypocrisy in every post of mine on this thread. He is clearly not denying it. How could he? He is not a tolerant person, no matter how much he would like to think he is.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.

Being reasonable means one forms judgments and arrives at conclusions by a sound process of logic.

A worldview cannot truly be considered reasoned if it includes any superstitious thought, because superstition is fallacious logic.

If one indulges in fallacious or fantastic logic, one cannot claim to be an earnest student of science.

A lot of very well respected and famous scientists were/are religious. Maybe you should double check your bias with actual history. For some one such as yourself who claims to be "an earnest student of science" you sure are allergic to posting scientific studies to support your dogmas which, in effect unsupported with scientific studies, have no more scientific validity than religion.

Beliathon has shed some light on this in the last few weeks. It has come to my attention, thanks to him, that there is a certain group of people who believe science to be their religion. I don't know when it got turned into a religion. Obviously some scientists believe in God, or are at least agnostic.

But with the disdain and hate he has for any religion, and the fact that he can not believe someone can come to a logical choice that there could be an intelligent designer without a religion, shows to me he has blinders on; he's holding onto his belief that there is no creator because he believes in science to the point that he will block things out. I truly believe he worships science as a religion. He has way too much faith in the scientists to come to all the right answers and that the answer will be there there is no God.

Guess what Beliathon? The scientists don't know this yet! They are working at CERN trying to figure out why the big bang happened the way it supposedly did. By their own theories it should have happened differently, so we know their theories are incorrect in some way.

"Dirac interpreted the equation to mean that for every particle there exists a corresponding antiparticle, exactly matching the particle but with opposite charge. For the electron there should be an "antielectron", for example, identical in every way but with a positive electric charge. The insight opened the possibility of entire galaxies and universes made of antimatter.

But when matter and antimatter come into contact, they annihilate – disappearing in a flash of energy. The big bang should have created equal amounts of matter and antimatter. So why is there far more matter than antimatter in the universe?" -- CERN's page on antimatter

What will happen if they figure out God or an Intelligent Designer created it and that's why there is more matter than anti-matter in the world, when scientifically that should not have happened?

[Beliathon]

It has come to my attention, thanks to him, that there is a certain group of people who believe science to be their religion. I don't know when it got turned into a religion.

In many ways, science seems like a 21st Century religion. It's a belief system that many wholeheartedly defend and evolve their lives around, sometimes as much as the devoutest of religious folk.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Science is not a "belief system" but a process and methodology for seeking an objective reality. Of course because scientific exploration is a human endeavor it comes with all the flaws of humanity: ego, short-sightedness, corruption and greed. But unlike a "belief system" such as religion untethered to an objective truth, science is over time self-policing; competing scientists have a strong incentive to corroborate and build on the findings of others; but equally, to prove other scientists wrong by means that can be duplicated by others. Nobody is doing experiments to demonstrate how Noah could live to 600 years old, because those who believe that story are not confined to reproducible evidence to support their belief. But experiments were done to show the earth orbits the sun, not the other way around.

Here is the fundamental and irreconcilable conflict between the two: science searches for mechanisms and the answer to "how" the universe functions, with no appeal to higher purpose, without assuming the existence of such purpose. Religion seeks meaning and the answer to "why" the world is as we know it, based on the unquestioned assumption that such meaning and purpose exist. The two worldviews could not more incompatible.

Unlike scientific claims, beliefs cannot be arbitrated to determine which is valid because there is no objective basis on which to compare one set of beliefs to another. Those two world views are not closer than we think; they are as far apart as could possibly be imagined.

Religion and science are incompatible at every level. The two seek different answers to separate questions using fundamentally and inherently incompatible methods. Nothing can truly bring the two together without sacrificing intellectual honesty.

We are told that since science and faith are both fallible, both are equally valid approaches to understanding the world and ourselves. Here is what Jeffrey Small says about this:
"Bias, preconceived ideas, academic politics, ego and resistance to change are ever-present in scientific and academic communities and often result in institutional opposition to new theories, especially ground-breaking ones. Many scientists initially resisted Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo because they presented a new paradigm of the universe."

Well, exactly! What this proves is that over time, science is indeed self-correcting while faith is not. While we all know now, due to science, that the earth orbits the sun, the Church is still fighting the battle with Galileo. Even today in the 21st century, the Church claims that Galileo shares blame because he made unproven assertions. Unproven assertions! The best the Pope could muster was that he regretted the "tragic mutual incomprehension" that had caused Galileo to suffer. As the new millennium settles in, the Church still claims that Galileo was wrong. The dissonance between Scripture and fact is not a problem relegated to earlier centuries, but remains relevant today.

Science is indeed fallible, and scientists suffer from all the usual human foibles. But reproducibility, scrutiny from other scientists, the drive for new knowledge, the glory of overturning orthodoxy, all drive science to a better understanding of an objective truth or our best approximation of it; this method of understanding the world is inherently incompatible with faith. Faith cannot be contested: I believe, therefore it is true. All scientific claims are by nature contestable. Those differences cannot be reconciled. Ever.

In reality we need to turn this argument about fallibility on its head. Science never claims to be infallible. There would be no need for more research if scientists believed they had all the answers, and all of them right. But god by definition is infallible. And yet. The Bible's clear statement about age of the earth, off by more than 4 billion years, is one example of an important factual error. Sure, maybe this is a mistake of human interpretation of divine will. But with each new discovery proving a Biblical assertion wrong, the Church retreats to the safety of errors in interpretation or dismissing the discrepancy as unimportant. Yet the ever-accumulating factual mistakes must call into question the certainty with which the Church claims that god, or the Bible, is infallible, since their previous insistence has proven unsubstantiated with glaring factual mistakes. These doubts about infallibility apply, too, to the Church's teachings on morality.

If the bible is the literal word of god, then god has clearly blown it. If the bible is a flawed interpretation of god's will, then the conclusions about morality can be equally flawed. The issue of fallibility is a problem for the faithful, not for science and reason. Never confuse the two.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

It has come to my attention, thanks to him, that there is a certain group of people who believe science to be their religion. I don't know when it got turned into a religion.

In many ways, science seems like a 21st Century religion. It's a belief system that many wholeheartedly defend and evolve their lives around, sometimes as much as the devoutest of religious folk.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Science is not a "belief system" but a process and methodology for seeking an objective reality.

Yes, I read all you wrote, but you somehow missed my point.

Science is not a religion, and I never said it was. I was saying that you (and some other people too) have faith in it like one. Some scientists are just scientists. Some athesists believe in science like a religion. Scientists don't know if there is a God or not. You believe there isn't and have disdain for those who do. Yet, if a scientist doesn't know why there is more matter than anit-matter after the big bang, they should, by definition, have an open mind that something else caused it, and that that something else could be God.

[Beliathon]

Claim:

you (and some other people too) have faith in it like one.

Evidence to support claim?

"Have faith in science" is an oxymoron. Faith (superstition) and science (reason) exist as a zero-sum game with one another. They cannot occupy the same space. When one wanes, the other waxes.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Claim:

you (and some other people too) have faith in it like one.

Evidence to support claim?

You are taking the scientific world's data that seems to have concluded that there is no God, and believed it, hook, line and sinker. But as I've said the scientists at CERN, may right now know that there is something more, such as an Intelligent Designer or God, as they cannot explain why the Big Bang happened the way they think it should have. A real scientist should have an open mind to believing that the Big Bang did not occur the way it's written in science books, and that there could be something else at play. So a real scientist should at least be agnostic.

"Have faith in science" is an oxymoron. Faith (superstition) and science (reason) exist as a zero-sum game with one another. They cannot occupy the same space. As one wanes, the other waxes.

And yet, the majority of people have faith in their science books as the be-all end-all word on things, and have never actually ever tested anything. Remember The Truman Show? He was told that the world was big, but he had never been able to get out of his town and actually test it. When he did, he found out that some of what he was told was not true. For example. the moon rose and night and the sun shined in the morning, but when he went missing, the sun suddenly rose at night, so they could have the light to find him, etc.

I'm not saying everything science has ever said is false. I'm simply saying most people will continue to live their lives without ever testing if everything science has told them was true, and they are placing faith in science that what they've been told is true, in that case.

"Faith is variously defined as belief, confidence or trust in a person, object, religion, idea or view."

It certainly is a confidence in science to trust it, without ever testing it.

[Beliathon]

You are taking the scientific world's data that seems to have concluded that there is no God, and believed it, hook, line and sinker.

Incorrect. The "scientific world" (lol) has not come to any such conclusion! Science only asserts that there is no evidence to support any deity claims. Personally, I gave up faith in god at a young age, long before I was very much interested in science or any particular scientific endeavour.

Back then, it was just a gut feeling, and I went with it. Later in life my thirst for knowledge drove me to understanding the evidence, which is all around us*, and inside us**, and the source of that vague feeling I had as a boy.

*comets and asteroids slamming indifferently into Earth

**hundreds of millions of micobes that would kill you within 48 hours if your immune system ever failed

I'm not saying everything science has ever said is false. I'm simply saying most people will continue to live their lives without ever testing if everything science has told them was true, and they are placing faith in science that what they've been told is true, in that case.

Here's the thing: Everyone using a smartphone is testing the claims of science all the time. Everyone using a computer is testing those claims.

Everyone who sits down inside a 1.5+ ton explosion-powered metal box vehicle is staking their life on the claims of physics that when they push the brake pedal, the brakes will be applied, and the vehicle will come to a stop. The fact that this computer is operating and the internet is working right now are evidence that the claims of science are true.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

You are taking the scientific world's data that seems to have concluded that there is no God, and believed it, hook, line and sinker.

Incorrect. The "scientific world" (lol) has not come to any such conclusion! Science only asserts that there is no evidence to support any deity claims. Personally, I gave up faith in god at a young age, long before I was very much interested in science or any particular scientific endeavour.

Back then, it was just a gut feeling, and I went with it. Later in life my thirst for knowledge drove me to understanding the evidence, which is all around us*, and inside us**, and the source of that vague feeling I had as a boy.

*comets and asteroids slamming indifferently into Earth

**hundreds of millions of micobes that would kill you within 48 hours if your immune system ever failed

Funny, those things you think of as proof He doesn't exist, are proof to me that He does, lol. I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be if there was no God watching over us.

[Beliathon]

I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be  if there was no God watching over us.

We are the only gods watching over us. Let's hope we're wise and compassionate Watchers. Otherwise...

[jaysabi]

I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be  if there was no God watching over us.

We are the only gods watching over us. Let's hope we're wise and compassionate Watchers. Otherwise...

[snip for size]

^^^ Completely off topic, but this photo is a phenomenal piece of visual commentary!

[MakingMoneyHoney]

I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be  if there was no God watching over us.

We are the only gods watching over us. Let's hope we're wise and compassionate Watchers. Otherwise...

We are not gods and never will be. The world has already been ravaged by people.

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

[TeamButtcoin]

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?

[Beliathon]

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?

Yes, if things were designed perfectly for a perfect world, why are some babies stillborn with their hearts outside their bodies? What kind of God plays such a cruel, physically-painful, nine month long joke on a mother?

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?

Yes, if things were designed perfectly for a perfect world, why are some babies stillborn with their hearts outside their bodies? What kind of God plays such a cruel, physically-painful, nine month long joke on a mother?

I've already discussed this with you.

In the beginning everything was fine. Then Eve sinned and we as a human race got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. In the bible it talks about fallen angels mating with female humans and having offspring (Nephilim). In the book of Enoch it talks about how the fallen angels/Nephilim corrupted mankind even more. They also cross bred animals (which is where the dinasours may have come in to being). This was an attempt to make it so that mankind's bloodline would be mixed so that Jesus could not be born of a pure bloodline to stop evil. Because it was predicted when Eve was kicked out that her offspring (further down the line) would defeat satan (of course that offspring was Jesus Christ and he did save us).

We also have all these GMOs being introduced into our food by the governments, and drugs in the water.  

Why is it that we as a race have not had our lifetimes lengthened more that they have been after all the new tech? Why are there more food allergies today too?

It is predicted in the bible that when the end times come they will be like the days of Noah. The reason the flood happened was to save His pure blood line from evil crossbreeding (with fallen angels). Also some people, believing that they are part Nephilim are known to inbreed, could be they are trying to strengthen their angelic bloodlines.

Of course to everyone reading this, who doesn't believe in the bible this will sound ludicrous. But it's clear in the bible and the book of Encoh, that that this mix-breeding and incestual lines could happen. With that being the case they could easily lead to things like you described.

Edit: We were never supposed to "play god" and mess with our blood lines like some have.

[BLKBITZ]

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?

Yes, if things were designed perfectly for a perfect world, why are some babies stillborn with their hearts outside their bodies? What kind of God plays such a cruel, physically-painful, nine month long joke on a mother?

When adam and eve ate the apple sin came into the world and anything bad could happen from then on.

[Wilikon]

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

[Spendulus]

....
It is predicted in the bible that when the end times come they will be like the days of Noah. The reason the flood happened was to save His pure blood line from evil crossbreeding (with fallen angels). ....

Wait, so there are really hot angels?

And we're missing out on them today?

[TECSHARE]

It has come to my attention, thanks to him, that there is a certain group of people who believe science to be their religion. I don't know when it got turned into a religion.

In many ways, science seems like a 21st Century religion. It's a belief system that many wholeheartedly defend and evolve their lives around, sometimes as much as the devoutest of religious folk.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Science is not a "belief system" but a process and methodology for seeking an objective reality. Of course because scientific exploration is a human endeavor it comes with all the flaws of humanity: ego, short-sightedness, corruption and greed. But unlike a "belief system" such as religion untethered to an objective truth, science is over time self-policing; competing scientists have a strong incentive to corroborate and build on the findings of others; but equally, to prove other scientists wrong by means that can be duplicated by others. Nobody is doing experiments to demonstrate how Noah could live to 600 years old, because those who believe that story are not confined to reproducible evidence to support their belief. But experiments were done to show the earth orbits the sun, not the other way around.

Here is the fundamental and irreconcilable conflict between the two: science searches for mechanisms and the answer to "how" the universe functions, with no appeal to higher purpose, without assuming the existence of such purpose. Religion seeks meaning and the answer to "why" the world is as we know it, based on the unquestioned assumption that such meaning and purpose exist. The two worldviews could not more incompatible.

Unlike scientific claims, beliefs cannot be arbitrated to determine which is valid because there is no objective basis on which to compare one set of beliefs to another. Those two world views are not closer than we think; they are as far apart as could possibly be imagined.

Religion and science are incompatible at every level. The two seek different answers to separate questions using fundamentally and inherently incompatible methods. Nothing can truly bring the two together without sacrificing intellectual honesty.

We are told that since science and faith are both fallible, both are equally valid approaches to understanding the world and ourselves. Here is what Jeffrey Small says about this:
"Bias, preconceived ideas, academic politics, ego and resistance to change are ever-present in scientific and academic communities and often result in institutional opposition to new theories, especially ground-breaking ones. Many scientists initially resisted Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo because they presented a new paradigm of the universe."

Well, exactly! What this proves is that over time, science is indeed self-correcting while faith is not. While we all know now, due to science, that the earth orbits the sun, the Church is still fighting the battle with Galileo. Even today in the 21st century, the Church claims that Galileo shares blame because he made unproven assertions. Unproven assertions! The best the Pope could muster was that he regretted the "tragic mutual incomprehension" that had caused Galileo to suffer. As the new millennium settles in, the Church still claims that Galileo was wrong. The dissonance between Scripture and fact is not a problem relegated to earlier centuries, but remains relevant today.

Science is indeed fallible, and scientists suffer from all the usual human foibles. But reproducibility, scrutiny from other scientists, the drive for new knowledge, the glory of overturning orthodoxy, all drive science to a better understanding of an objective truth or our best approximation of it; this method of understanding the world is inherently incompatible with faith. Faith cannot be contested: I believe, therefore it is true. All scientific claims are by nature contestable. Those differences cannot be reconciled. Ever.

In reality we need to turn this argument about fallibility on its head. Science never claims to be infallible. There would be no need for more research if scientists believed they had all the answers, and all of them right. But god by definition is infallible. And yet. The Bible's clear statement about age of the earth, off by more than 4 billion years, is one example of an important factual error. Sure, maybe this is a mistake of human interpretation of divine will. But with each new discovery proving a Biblical assertion wrong, the Church retreats to the safety of errors in interpretation or dismissing the discrepancy as unimportant. Yet the ever-accumulating factual mistakes must call into question the certainty with which the Church claims that god, or the Bible, is infallible, since their previous insistence has proven unsubstantiated with glaring factual mistakes. These doubts about infallibility apply, too, to the Church's teachings on morality.

If the bible is the literal word of god, then god has clearly blown it. If the bible is a flawed interpretation of god's will, then the conclusions about morality can be equally flawed. The issue of fallibility is a problem for the faithful, not for science and reason. Never confuse the two.

Science is a belief system. When this belief system is executed in a technically correct way, it is based upon personal observation of empirical data which can be quantified and reproduced. The problem is most people do not personally observe or practice scientific method, let alone understand it. Therefore in effect even properly executed, actual science, is still based on ones BELIEF that those that conducted the tests acted without bias and in a technically correct manner. Furthermore even if one did examine every detail of the experiment and its results, most people do not have the expertise or resources to conduct those experiments for themselves. In effect, science is also a belief system.

As for the rest of your antireligious rant, I think these two quotes sum up the problem with your ideology...

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~ Aristotle

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald

He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism)

Jesus Christ, how does a person even get to be this retarded? I can't even...

Marxism is a political worldview and has nothing to do with religion one way or the other.

"Like creationists, strong believers of Marxism reject all scholarly criticism of Marxism. In former Communist countries, Marx was given a personality cult and was viewed as immune to criticism. Critics of Marxism were labelled as "counter-revolutionary criminals" and were jailed or even executed, which is analogous to execution of critics of state religion on charges of blasphemy in countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc. This tradition is held by Marxist parties all over the world. According to "Empire" by Richard Kapuściński, in the Soviet Union the idea of creating a religion without a god was considered. However, during Stalin's rule his cult of personality effectively led to a religion in which Stalin played the role of a god. In God is not Great, Christopher Hitchens speaks of his loss of belief in Marxism as closely analogous to loss of religious belief. However, while it displays similarities in such practices, Marxism lacks the supernatural beliefs (although the "force of history" is close) rituals and other common aspects of religions. However, in the North Korean offshoot of Marxism, according to official ideology there are miraculous beliefs related to the ruling family. For example the birth of Kim Jong-il was accompanied by winter changing into spring, a star illuminating the sky and a double rainbow spontaneously appearing.

Marxism as a memeplex adheres quite strictly to the model of a religion, even including something of the transcendent (in its eventual goal of "class consciousness") and a mantra by which to dismiss or insult any doubter or unbeliever ("false consciousness"). "

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Secular_religions#Marxism_as_a_religion

You are taking the scientific world's data that seems to have concluded that there is no God, and believed it, hook, line and sinker.

Incorrect. The "scientific world" (lol) has not come to any such conclusion! Science only asserts that there is no evidence to support any deity claims. Personally, I gave up faith in god at a young age, long before I was very much interested in science or any particular scientific endeavour.

Back then, it was just a gut feeling, and I went with it. Later in life my thirst for knowledge drove me to understanding the evidence, which is all around us*, and inside us**, and the source of that vague feeling I had as a boy.

*comets and asteroids slamming indifferently into Earth

**hundreds of millions of micobes that would kill you within 48 hours if your immune system ever failed

I'm not saying everything science has ever said is false. I'm simply saying most people will continue to live their lives without ever testing if everything science has told them was true, and they are placing faith in science that what they've been told is true, in that case.

Here's the thing: Everyone using a smartphone is testing the claims of science all the time. Everyone using a computer is testing those claims.

Everyone who sits down inside a 1.5+ ton explosion-powered metal box vehicle is staking their life on the claims of physics that when they push the brake pedal, the brakes will be applied, and the vehicle will come to a stop. The fact that this computer is operating and the internet is working right now are evidence that the claims of science are true.

The fact is that the existence of God can currently neither be proved nor disproved, therefore your BELIEF that there is no God is based on faith alone. At least agnostics have the honesty to admit no one really knows.

[Beliathon]

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?

Yes, if things were designed perfectly for a perfect world, why are some babies stillborn with their hearts outside their bodies? What kind of God plays such a cruel, physically-painful, nine month long joke on a mother?

Of course to everyone reading this, who doesn't believe in the bible this will sound ludicrous. But it's clear in the bible and the book of Encoh, that that this mix-breeding and incestual lines could happen. With that being the case they could easily lead to things like you described.

Edit: We were never supposed to "play god" and mess with our blood lines like some have.

I think I follow you so far, but when you say "play god with blood lines", do you mean interracial breeding,  advanced medicine (raising the dead with shocks of electricity to heart), both, or something else entirely?  Please explain.

Thanks in advance

[MakingMoneyHoney]

I think I follow you so far, but when you say "play god with blood lines", do you mean interracial breeding,  advanced medicine (raising the dead with shocks of electricity to heart), both, or something else entirely?  Please explain.

Thanks in advance

Not with interracial breeding. You can't consider angels a race of humanity, so I don't even know where you got that from. We, as humans, all come from the same bloodline, Adam and Eve, funneled through Noah's family, since the rest were wiped out.

I am also discussing mixing the genetics of the foods we eat. (GMOs)

I thought it was pretty plain, that angels mixed with humans and cross bred animals. Now humans are doing the same and crossbreeding plants with other plant species and animals with other animal species, or just playing around, genetically modifying them in other ways. Then, we as humans eat them. The GMO food ends up cross-pollinating other foods. There was a link I put up one time, where it is estimated that there is no wheat left that has not been modified in some way. There are studies where the growth hormones in cows, make their way into the people eating them, which is why some children are going through puberty sooner than they used to. Also there are drugs in the water (that's documented). That is playing around like god and has unintended consequences. These things are not what God intended and to blame Him for humanities sin is silly.

The Alarming Reason Why More Girls are Starting Puberty Early

"The study published in Pediatrics at the beginning of this month compared results from two previous studies that used breast development to gauge the beginning of puberty. One was conducted in the early 1990s and the other about five years ago.. In that time span, the rate of white 7-year-old girls entering puberty doubled, from five percent to more than 10 percent."

These changes are recent, and obviously not God-made.

[TECSHARE]

Of course Liathon has no response to my arguments so he argues about God some more because it is an argument that can never be won or lost therefore he can entertain his biases in perpetuity.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Of course Liathon has no response to my arguments so he argues about God some more because it is an argument that can never be won or lost therefore he can entertain his biases in perpetuity.

He pretty much admitted to being a hypocrite, since he didn't try to argue it. What did you expect?

Again, I apologize to the thread starter, that we got off-topic.

[Spendulus]

I think I follow you so far, but when you say "play god with blood lines", do you mean interracial breeding,  advanced medicine (raising the dead with shocks of electricity to heart), both, or something else entirely?  Please explain.

Thanks in advance

Not with interracial breeding. You can't consider angels a race of humanity....

I just don't think I can agree with that.

Having known some true angles...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJcGi4-n_Yw

[foxbitcoin]

I have no problem with it and even if I did I would just keep my mouth shut as people should be allowed to do anything they want to their own bodies and should be free to live their lives in whatever way makes them happiest.

[PhattyBanks]

are there any transgender animals in the animal kingdom?

[Wilikon]

are there any transgender animals in the animal kingdom?

Yes.

[Beliathon]

I just don't think I can agree with that.

Having known some true angles...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJcGi4-n_Yw

QFT, I'm going to bed with one in about five minutes.



I'm going to fuck her halfway to inside-out, and trust me when I say I wouldn't care whether or not this angel used to have a dick. Sexy is sexy.

The fact heaven is a place here on Earth is self-evident for any person with genitals (and reasonably effective game). You know, as a sterilized endurance athlete having the time of my life with my 26 year old 107 lb sexually-insatiable bombshell girlfriend, I can't help but wonder how many of these devout internet-theists are hideously overweight, socially-awkward virgins in real life, desperate to believe in heaven after death because they can't get laid in life.

Bad news uggos, the only heaven is the heaven you make here and now. Now get your fatass in shape and get some sex. You can thank me later.

[centauribit]

[jaysabi]

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?

Yes, if things were designed perfectly for a perfect world, why are some babies stillborn with their hearts outside their bodies? What kind of God plays such a cruel, physically-painful, nine month long joke on a mother?

I've already discussed this with you.

In the beginning everything was fine. Then Eve sinned and we as a human race got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. In the bible it talks about fallen angels mating with female humans and having offspring (Nephilim). In the book of Enoch it talks about how the fallen angels/Nephilim corrupted mankind even more. They also cross bred animals (which is where the dinasours may have come in to being). This was an attempt to make it so that mankind's bloodline would be mixed so that Jesus could not be born of a pure bloodline to stop evil. Because it was predicted when Eve was kicked out that her offspring (further down the line) would defeat satan (of course that offspring was Jesus Christ and he did save us).

We also have all these GMOs being introduced into our food by the governments, and drugs in the water.  

Why is it that we as a race have not had our lifetimes lengthened more that they have been after all the new tech? Why are there more food allergies today too?

It is predicted in the bible that when the end times come they will be like the days of Noah. The reason the flood happened was to save His pure blood line from evil crossbreeding (with fallen angels). Also some people, believing that they are part Nephilim are known to inbreed, could be they are trying to strengthen their angelic bloodlines.

Of course to everyone reading this, who doesn't believe in the bible this will sound ludicrous. But it's clear in the bible and the book of Encoh, that that this mix-breeding and incestual lines could happen. With that being the case they could easily lead to things like you described.

Edit: We were never supposed to "play god" and mess with our blood lines like some have.

Biblical conspiracy theories are even better than regular crackpot conspiracy theories!

[s1ng]

Transgender is really famous especially in Thailand.
I wonder many of night club use them to use their service and it's proven that they can increase more exposure rather than normal.
But we can't say because we are getting complex in our gen and we are getting much much complicated

Here's one of Thailand product, maybe one of you know this man 

[Ghris]

Here's one of Thailand product, maybe one of you know this girl  

ftfy

Not sure why people think they can just piss on people making decisions on their own life. Everyone has their own values and morals. If you don't agree with them, just leave them in peace. Have some respect.

Look at this beautiful woman:

[TECSHARE]

Just because someone refuses to share their reality doesn't mean people are "pissing" on them. They have a right to identify as whatever gender they want, they do not have a right to force others to agree or play along.

[Sourgummies]

The march is on.

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/apple-equality-act/

[blablahblah]

Claim:

you (and some other people too) have faith in it like one.

Evidence to support claim?

"Have faith in science" is an oxymoron.

Actually no, it's not.

Real science is a quest for knowledge and understanding, and it's based on a few things like curiosity and passion.

The problem is that most "science" is taught in a religious manner, using textbooks and mind-numbingly boring methodologies and rote learning. The textbooks are literally modern bible equivalents. They provide things like instructions and answers, much like the Christian bible does, so that the learner is brainwashed into remembering a tonne of shitty formulae. It should really be called the Religious Method, not the Scientific Method.

However, modern scientific findings seem to come about as a result of open-ended inquiry and experimentation. Asking questions, and when a scientist gets a result, they use their intellect to interpret those results. And, just like lay people have faith that the scientists know what they're doing, the scientists themselves also have faith in their own abilities.
 

Faith (superstition) and science (reason) exist as a zero-sum game with one another. They cannot occupy the same space. When one wanes, the other waxes.

Yeah yeah.

[TECSHARE]

Any real scientist, or anyone educated in scientific method will tell you that true science is never settled. Science is a never ending process of reexamination and correction of data. The moment you pretend to know something is for sure is the moment you are surely incorrect.

[Beliathon]

Claim:

The problem is that most "science" is taught in a religious manner, using textbooks (...) which are literally modern bible equivalents.

Evidence?

[Beliathon]

Any real scientist, or anyone educated in scientific method will tell you that true science is never settled. Science is a never ending process of reexamination and correction of data.

Correct. A scientific view is always asymptotically approaching perfect objective universal truth. Science is a kind of organism, an evolving reasoned consensus by living peers. The truth is always there, waiting. Modern science is a bunch of clever folks sniffing it out together.

By contrast, religion/superstition isn't even attempting to understand the world accurately. Just as science is a living organism, religion is death - the death of reason. It's not about finding truth, because they make it up. Religion is fiction / myth / make-believe / denial of self-evident bodily experience (pleasure) / fantasy / falsehood / lies.

And every scientist knows this. You are tragically intellectually stunted adults, dear theists. Because I'm a compassionate human being, I'm here selflessly and valiantly fighting to liberate your mind from the unethical brainwashed bastards who vandalized it with superstition when you were an innocent child. That's reality.

[Sourgummies]

This is the "Whats with dem Transgenders" thread.

So my local pride parade is not welcoming any politicians that do not sign on to give transgenders special protections. Interesting thing is the local government says they are already protected under the act and do not need to be singled out. Should be interesting to see play out. Will find a link if any one is interested in reading.

[TECSHARE]

Any real scientist, or anyone educated in scientific method will tell you that true science is never settled. Science is a never ending process of reexamination and correction of data.

Correct. A scientific view is always asymptotically approaching perfect objective universal truth. Science is a kind of organism, an evolving reasoned consensus by living peers. The truth is always there, waiting. Modern science is a bunch of clever folks sniffing it out together.

By contrast, religion/superstition isn't even attempting to understand the world accurately. Just as science is a living organism, religion is death - the death of reason. It's not about finding truth, because they make it up. Religion is fiction / myth / make-believe / denial of self-evident bodily experience (pleasure) / fantasy / falsehood / lies.

And every scientist knows this. You are tragically intellectually stunted adults, dear theists. Because I'm a compassionate human being, I'm here selflessly and valiantly fighting to liberate your mind from the unethical brainwashed bastards who vandalized it with superstition when you were an innocent child. That's reality.

I love how you selectively edit my quotes to leave out the parts that don't jive with your revisionism and claims to have scientific backing for your arguments. You have none, and every time I ask for a scientific study you have either some personal attack, red herring, or other fallacy to talk about.

You make claims about the science being settled yet can never even meet the bare standard of producing peer reviewed studies to back up your arguments. Pretending like you agree with me an understand and observe scientific method does not cover up this fact. In your case "science" is a belief system no more logical than any religion.

[Beliathon]

You have none, and every time I ask for a scientific study you have either some personal attack, red herring, or other fallacy to talk about.

Beliathon works in mysterious ways, homeslice. Adapt.

[TECSHARE]

You have none, and every time I ask for a scientific study you have either some personal attack, red herring, or other fallacy to talk about.

Beliathon works in mysterious ways, homeslice. Adapt.

I am not interested in adapting to your destructive dogmas devoid of scientific reason and backing. Get back to me when you learn how to read and understand peer reviewed studies.

[Bit_Happy]

This seems to be a big hot topic lately and I still can not understand it. ....

Because if continually, enough crappy non issues like this are tossed into the public arena, and they are told this is very important, nobody can ever get around to the real issues.

Like all the money they are printing.

+1 Trillion Dollars, for the truth:
I remember how much "gay marriage" dominated the 2004 election (Bush was frequently talking against it to rally "the base"), when they should have been debating more important issues. 

[Spendulus]

You have none, and every time I ask for a scientific study you have either some personal attack, red herring, or other fallacy to talk about.

Beliathon works in mysterious ways, homeslice. Adapt.

I am not interested in adapting to your destructive dogmas devoid of scientific reason and backing. Get back to me when you learn how to read and understand peer reviewed studies.

What a crock of shit.  Personal attacks and other logical fallacies are the marks of a loser in an argument.

And what do losers do?  They lose.

[binggo1]

A transgender individual may have characteristics that are normally associated with a particular gender and identify elsewhere on the traditional gender continuum, or exist outside of it as other, agender, gender-neutral, genderqueer, non-binary, third gender, etc.
Transgender people may also identify as bigender, pangender, or along several places on either the traditional transgender continuum or the more encompassing continuums that have been developed in response to recent, significantly more detailed studies.
Furthermore, many transgender people experience a period of identity development that includes better understanding one's self-image, self-reflection, and self-expression.
More specifically, the degree to which individuals feel genuine, authentic, and comfortable within their external appearance and accept their genuine identity is referred to as transgender congruence.

[Sourgummies]

A transgender individual may have characteristics that are normally associated with a particular gender and identify elsewhere on the traditional gender continuum, or exist outside of it as other, agender, gender-neutral, genderqueer, non-binary, third gender, etc.
Transgender people may also identify as bigender, pangender, or along several places on either the traditional transgender continuum or the more encompassing continuums that have been developed in response to recent, significantly more detailed studies.
Furthermore, many transgender people experience a period of identity development that includes better understanding one's self-image, self-reflection, and self-expression.
More specifically, the degree to which individuals feel genuine, authentic, and comfortable within their external appearance and accept their genuine identity is referred to as transgender congruence.

That looks like a copy and paste. But now I am interested whats a "pangender"?

Would it be a crime if I say "Sir" if the transgender wants to be known as a female? Wonder if that will ever come about.

[ridery99]

I need 5 more dicks added to me by tax payers money and soon I will have them 

[Beliathon]

For those just tuning in to the thread who may have missed it:

Last Week Tonight - Transgender Rights

[Spendulus]

I need 5 more dicks added to me by tax payers money and soon I will have them 

Okay, just don't be a dick.

[cooldgamer]

A transgender individual may have characteristics that are normally associated with a particular gender and identify elsewhere on the traditional gender continuum, or exist outside of it as other, agender, gender-neutral, genderqueer, non-binary, third gender, etc.
Transgender people may also identify as bigender, pangender, or along several places on either the traditional transgender continuum or the more encompassing continuums that have been developed in response to recent, significantly more detailed studies.
Furthermore, many transgender people experience a period of identity development that includes better understanding one's self-image, self-reflection, and self-expression.
More specifically, the degree to which individuals feel genuine, authentic, and comfortable within their external appearance and accept their genuine identity is referred to as transgender congruence.

That looks like a copy and paste. But now I am interested whats a "pangender"?

Would it be a crime if I say "Sir" if the transgender wants to be known as a female? Wonder if that will ever come about.

Pangender is pretty much "Fuck it all, I'm everything, even genders we don't know exist yet".  Or for the technical definition:

Pangender (and/or Omnigender) is a non-binary gender experience which refers to a wide multiplicity of genders that can (or not) tend to the infinite (meaning that this experience can go beyond the current knowledge of genders). This experience can be either simultaneously or over time.

Being pangender does not require that one knows everything about all the established genders nowadays; being pangender goes beyond the known genders. Pangender can express gender fluidity or not; for example, a pangender person can manifest a genderflux, flowing from pangender to agender.

Panflux is a gender identity consisting of pangender + genderflux.

Pangender = binary genders (100% female and 100% male) + known genders + unknown genders.

Is it a crime to misgender somebody?  No, and it never will be (hopefully).  Is it dickish?  Yes, but that's your right as long as it's only words and nobody gets physical. 

[Beliathon]

Is it a crime to misgender somebody?  No, and it never will be (hopefully).  Is it dickish?  Yes, but that's your right as long as it's only words and nobody gets physical. 

Words kill too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Is it a crime to misgender somebody?  No, and it never will be (hopefully).  Is it dickish?  Yes, but that's your right as long as it's only words and nobody gets physical. 

Words kill too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

People have to be very unstable to feel like they should commit suicide if you call them the gender they were born.

[cooldgamer]

Is it a crime to misgender somebody?  No, and it never will be (hopefully).  Is it dickish?  Yes, but that's your right as long as it's only words and nobody gets physical. 

Words kill too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

Bullying among youth is a totally different issue, and shouldn't be treated different than bullying based on any other factor.  Unless it's reaching to the extreme of harassment or cyber harassment (which there are laws against for both adults and children), just send them to the principal's office and tell them to stop being a dick.  No need to get law enforcement involved.

Misgendering someone one time really isn't going to do anything.  Compared to some of the harassment transpeople get, it will be forgotten about in 5 minutes.  What we really need to focus on is the physical attacks, stalking and harassment cases, etc. 

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Is it a crime to misgender somebody?  No, and it never will be (hopefully).  Is it dickish?  Yes, but that's your right as long as it's only words and nobody gets physical. 

Words kill too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

Bullying among youth is a totally different issue, and shouldn't be treated different than bullying based on any other factor.  Unless it's reaching to the extreme of harassment or cyber harassment (which there are laws against for both adults and children), just send them to the principal's office and tell them to stop being a dick.  No need to get law enforcement involved.

Misgendering someone one time really isn't going to do anything.  Compared to some of the harassment transpeople get, it will be forgotten about in 5 minutes.  What we really need to focus on is the physical attacks, stalking and harassment cases, etc. 

Yes, there's a huge difference between calling someone the gender they were born, compared to those who attack, stalk, harass, bully, etc. Those are clearly wrong.

[TECSHARE]

Is it a crime to misgender somebody?  No, and it never will be (hopefully).  Is it dickish?  Yes, but that's your right as long as it's only words and nobody gets physical. 

Words kill too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

Are there any studies demonstrating that LGBT suicides are a direct result of bullying and harassment and not from hormonal imbalances which are known to cause emotional problems? Oh that's right, you just make this assumption without scientific basis and those studies don't exist.

[roadbits]

I think it's kind of similar, an identity crisis of a sort where they can't identify with their gender. Their brain can't identify with the physical gender they've been born with and it mixes them up.

[Spendulus]

I think it's kind of similar, an identity crisis of a sort where they can't identify with their gender. Their brain can't identify with the physical gender they've been born with and it mixes them up.

I've got a problem like this.  You see, I'm trans black.

It's a real problem, I can't identify with my physical whiteness and it mixes me up.

I'm also trans-college, trans-motorcycle, trans-acid-rock, and trans-zombie.

[BADecker]

I always thought "Trance-gender" was the sex of that purple "girl" in the TV series, "Andromeda."

 

[cooldgamer]

I think it's kind of similar, an identity crisis of a sort where they can't identify with their gender. Their brain can't identify with the physical gender they've been born with and it mixes them up.

I've got a problem like this.  You see, I'm trans black.

It's a real problem, I can't identify with my physical whiteness and it mixes me up.

I'm also trans-college, trans-motorcycle, trans-acid-rock, and trans-zombie.

Come back when there's somebody that's actually depressed by the fact that their skin is white and they feel like they belong in a black body when they look at themselves.  Same with zombies.  You can make fun of the issue all you want, but the fact is nobody feels that so the point is moot.  Good luck leading a fulfilling life as a zombie anyway..

As for the other things, they just don't really make sense.  Nothing stopping you from riding a motorcycle, going to college, etc.  It's not going to affect the rest of your life (besides maybe a better job for the second..).  It's not a part of your core identity as a person that's always been there and is unchangeable without a long and hard process that makes your life do a 180.

[Spendulus]

I think it's kind of similar, an identity crisis of a sort where they can't identify with their gender. Their brain can't identify with the physical gender they've been born with and it mixes them up.

I've got a problem like this.  You see, I'm trans black.

It's a real problem, I can't identify with my physical whiteness and it mixes me up.

I'm also trans-college, trans-motorcycle, trans-acid-rock, and trans-zombie.

Come back when there's somebody that's actually depressed by the fact that their skin is white and they feel like they belong in a black body when they look at themselves.  Same with zombies.  You can make fun of the issue all you want, but the fact is nobody feels that so the point is moot.  ....

Sez who?

Where are these "crises" exactly?  They are not among the people I know who have such issues (eg gay or thinking about it, etc)

A real serious thing is, as an example, depression.  That causes suicidal tendencies in a great many people.  It has been well studied.  Many other "real" things.  Drug addiction.  Again, where exactly is this crisis and why should I worry about it?  And why right now, in the last 2 months, does it suddenly erupt as a "concern?"

NOTE:  This post may sound combative or something, I don't know.  It's not meant to be.  And it's serious.  Where are these "trans problems?"  Why should anyone be concerned with them and not other things?  Why is it suddenly "important?"  A quick look indicates about 0.3% of the population is "trans gender."   About one tenth of the gay/lesbian population.  A tiny, tiny number.

Here are some facts on axiety and depression.

Facts

Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD)
GAD affects 6.8 million adults, or 3.1% of the U.S. population.
Women are twice as likely to be affected as men.

Panic Disorder
6 million, 2.7%
Women are twice as likely to be affected as men.
Very high comorbidity rate with major depression.

Social Anxiety Disorder
15 million, 6.8%
Equally common among men and women, typically beginning around age 13.
According to a 2007 ADAA survey, 36% of people with social anxiety disorder report experiencing symptoms for 10 or more years before seeking help.

Specific Phobias
19 million, 8.7%
Women are twice as likely to be affected as men.
Typically begins in childhood; the median age of onset is 7.

Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) are closely related to anxiety disorders, which some may experience at the same time, along with depression.

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
2.2 million, 1.0%
Equally common among men and women.
The median age of onset is 19, with 25 percent of cases occurring by age 14. One-third of affected adults first experienced symptoms in childhood.

Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
7.7 million, 3.5%
Women are more likely to be affected than men.
Rape is the most likely trigger of PTSD: 65% of men and 45.9% of women who are raped will develop the disorder.
Childhood sexual abuse is a strong predictor of lifetime likelihood for developing PTSD.

Major Depressive Disorder
The leading cause of disability in the U.S. for ages 15 to 44.3
Affects approximately 14.8 million American adults, or about 6.7 percent of the U.S. population age 18 and older in a given year.
While major depressive disorder can develop at any age, the median age at onset is 32.5
More prevalent in women than in men.

Persistent depressive disorder, or PDD, (formerly called dysthymia) is a form of depression that usually continues for at least two years.
Affects approximately 1.5 percent of the U.S. population age 18 and older in a given year. (about 3.3 million American adults).
The median age of onset is 31.1

Related Illnesses
Many people with an anxiety disorder also have a co-occurring disorder or physical illness, which can make their symptoms worse and recovery more difficult. It’s essential to be treated for both disorders.

Read on to learn more about the co-occurrence of anxiety and these disorders:

    Bipolar disorder
    Eating disorders
    Headaches
    Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS)
    Sleep disorders
    Substance abuse
    Adult ADHD (attention deficit/hyperactive disorder)
    BDD (body dysmorphic disorder)
    Chronic pain
    Fibromyalgia
    Stress

Children
Anxiety disorders affect one in eight children. Research shows that untreated children with anxiety disorders are at higher risk to perform poorly in school, miss out on important social experiences, and engage in substance abuse.

    See statistics for anxiety disorders among children from the National Institute of Mental Health.

Anxiety disorders also often co-occur with other disorders such as depression, eating disorders, and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

    Childhood anxiety disorders
    Anxiety and depression
    Treatment
    Tips for parents and caregivers
    Anxiety disorders at school
    School refusal

http://www.adaa.org/about-adaa/press-room/facts-statistics

[cooldgamer]

I think it's kind of similar, an identity crisis of a sort where they can't identify with their gender. Their brain can't identify with the physical gender they've been born with and it mixes them up.

I've got a problem like this.  You see, I'm trans black.

It's a real problem, I can't identify with my physical whiteness and it mixes me up.

I'm also trans-college, trans-motorcycle, trans-acid-rock, and trans-zombie.

Come back when there's somebody that's actually depressed by the fact that their skin is white and they feel like they belong in a black body when they look at themselves.  Same with zombies.  You can make fun of the issue all you want, but the fact is nobody feels that so the point is moot.  ....

Sez who?

Where are these "crises" exactly?  They are not among the people I know who have such issues (eg gay or thinking about it, etc)

A real serious thing is, as an example, depression.  That causes suicidal tendencies in a great many people.  It has been well studied.  Many other "real" things.  Drug addiction.  Again, where exactly is this crisis and why should I worry about it?  And why right now, in the last 2 months, does it suddenly erupt as a "concern?"

NOTE:  This post may sound combative or something, I don't know.  It's not meant to be.  And it's serious.  Where are these "trans problems?"  Why should anyone be concerned with them and not other things?  Why is it suddenly "important?"  A quick look indicates about 0.3% of the population is "trans gender."   About one tenth of the gay/lesbian population.  A tiny, tiny number.

Here are some facts on axiety and depression.

Facts

*snip*

http://www.adaa.org/about-adaa/press-room/facts-statistics

When did I say anything about any other disorder?  Every thing you listed is a serious issue with it's own problems and should be dealt with.  Just because we haven't perfected everything doesn't mean we can't work on more than one issue at once.

For one, there's a massive rate of violence and sexual assault on the LGBT community.  If you check out the Anti Violence Project's study here, the numbers are pretty messed up.  This 3% of the population catches a lot of shit, so that's a nice reason to be concerned about it.  There wouldn't be so much coverage on the issues if everybody was free to just live their life.  

Transgender  women  were  4  times more likely  to  experience  police violence compared to overall survivors. 

Transgender women were 6 times more likely to experience physical violence  when interacting  with  the  police  compared  to  overall  survivors. 

Additionally,  transgender  women were  2  times  as  likely  to  experience  discrimination, 1.8  times  more  likely  to  experience  harassment, and  1.5 times  as  likely  to  experience  threats  and  intimidation  compared  to  overall  survivors.

Transgender  women were  1.8  times  more  likely  to  experience  sexual  violence  when  compared  with  other  survivors.

In  addition transgender  survivors  were  1.5  times  more  likely  to  experience  hate  violence  in  public  areas  and  1.4 times  more  likely  to  experience  hate  violence  in  shelters.

[Spendulus]

.....
When did I say anything about any other disorder?  Every thing you listed is a serious issue with it's own problems and should be dealt with.  Just because we haven't perfected everything doesn't mean we can't work on more than one issue at once.

For one, there's a massive rate of violence and sexual assault on the LGBT community.  If you check out the Anti Violence Project's study here, the numbers are pretty messed up.  This 3% of the population catches a lot of shit, so that's a nice reason to be concerned about it.  There wouldn't be so much coverage on the issues if everybody was free to just live their life.  

Transgender  women  were  4  times more likely  to  experience  police violence compared to overall survivors. 

Transgender women were 6 times more likely to experience physical violence  when interacting  with  the  police  compared  to  overall  survivors. 

Additionally,  transgender  women were  2  times  as  likely  to  experience  discrimination, 1.8  times  more  likely  to  experience  harassment, and  1.5 times  as  likely  to  experience  threats  and  intimidation  compared  to  overall  survivors.

Transgender  women were  1.8  times  more  likely  to  experience  sexual  violence  when  compared  with  other  survivors.

In  addition transgender  survivors  were  1.5  times  more  likely  to  experience  hate  violence  in  public  areas  and  1.4 times  more  likely  to  experience  hate  violence  in  shelters.

(bolded) You didn't.  That's why I felt obliged to point it out.

Now let me address EVERY ONE OF YOUR TALKING POINTS about the 0.3% of the people you are focusing on.

You mean they have A FRACTION OF the violence, discrimination and so forth as blacks?

Wow....

I do not know what kind of case you have presented....

[cooldgamer]

.....
When did I say anything about any other disorder? Every thing you listed is a serious issue with it's own problems and should be dealt with.  Just because we haven't perfected everything doesn't mean we can't work on more than one issue at once.

For one, there's a massive rate of violence and sexual assault on the LGBT community.  If you check out the Anti Violence Project's study here, the numbers are pretty messed up.  This 3% of the population catches a lot of shit, so that's a nice reason to be concerned about it.  There wouldn't be so much coverage on the issues if everybody was free to just live their life.  

Transgender  women  were  4  times more likely  to  experience  police violence compared to overall survivors.  

Transgender women were 6 times more likely to experience physical violence  when interacting  with  the  police  compared  to  overall  survivors.  

Additionally,  transgender  women were  2  times  as  likely  to  experience  discrimination, 1.8  times  more  likely  to  experience  harassment, and  1.5 times  as  likely  to  experience  threats  and  intimidation  compared  to  overall  survivors.

Transgender  women were  1.8  times  more  likely  to  experience  sexual  violence  when  compared  with  other  survivors.

In  addition transgender  survivors  were  1.5  times  more  likely  to  experience  hate  violence  in  public  areas  and  1.4 times  more  likely  to  experience  hate  violence  in  shelters.

(bolded) You didn't.  That's why I felt obliged to point it out.

Now let me address EVERY ONE OF YOUR TALKING POINTS about the 0.3% of the people you are focusing on.

You mean they have A FRACTION OF the violence, discrimination and so forth as blacks?

Wow....

I do not know what kind of case you have presented....

In case you haven't noticed, racial issues have also been getting a ton of press recently.  You can focus on more than one thing at a time.  You just keep using the fallacy of relative privation.


A couple points if we're focusing on hate crime

• Whether somebody passes should be considered with the statistics.  If nobody has any idea you were ever/are the other gender physically, they're probably safe except for a few cases (like sleeping with somebody before telling them).  Even if you don't quite pass, as long as you're halfway close people may just think you're not that good looking
• Most states currently do not include transgender people under their hate crime laws, whereas every one covers race

[Spendulus]

.....
When did I say anything about any other disorder? Every thing you listed is a serious issue with it's own problems and should be dealt with.  Just because we haven't perfected everything doesn't mean we can't work on more than one issue at once.

For one, there's a massive rate of violence and sexual assault on the LGBT community.  If you check out the Anti Violence Project's study here, the numbers are pretty messed up.  This 3% of the population catches a lot of shit, so that's a nice reason to be concerned about it.  There wouldn't be so much coverage on the issues if everybody was free to just live their life.  

Transgender  women  were  4  times more likely  to  experience  police violence compared to overall survivors.  

Transgender women were 6 times more likely to experience physical violence  when interacting  with  the  police  compared  to  overall  survivors.  

Additionally,  transgender  women were  2  times  as  likely  to  experience  discrimination, 1.8  times  more  likely  to  experience  harassment, and  1.5 times  as  likely  to  experience  threats  and  intimidation  compared  to  overall  survivors.

Transgender  women were  1.8  times  more  likely  to  experience  sexual  violence  when  compared  with  other  survivors.

In  addition transgender  survivors  were  1.5  times  more  likely  to  experience  hate  violence  in  public  areas  and  1.4 times  more  likely  to  experience  hate  violence  in  shelters.

(bolded) You didn't.  That's why I felt obliged to point it out.

Now let me address EVERY ONE OF YOUR TALKING POINTS about the 0.3% of the people you are focusing on.

You mean they have A FRACTION OF the violence, discrimination and so forth as blacks?

Wow....

I do not know what kind of case you have presented....

In case you haven't noticed, racial issues have also been getting a ton of press recently.  You can focus on more than one thing at a time.  You just keep using the fallacy of relative privation.


A couple points if we're focusing on hate crime

• Whether somebody passes should be considered with the statistics.  If nobody has any idea you were ever/are the other gender physically, they're probably safe except for a few cases (like sleeping with somebody before telling them).  Even if you don't quite pass, as long as you're halfway close people may just think you're not that good looking
• Most states currently do not include transgender people under their hate crime laws, whereas every one covers race

I call bullshit.



“Here’s the way that it works,” Shapiro added. “If you’re part of the designated victims list, then it almost doesn’t matter what you do at a certain point, you’re going to be designated the victim no matter what. If you are not on the designated victims list, then you won’t be, and it really is that simple.”

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/07/27/adam-carolla-on-zoey-turs-threats-against-ben-shapiro-tolerance-a-one-way-street-to-the-left/

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Consensual sex doesn't hurt anybody. Altering biological sex doesn't hurt anybody. Violence hurts. Hatred hurts.

Superstition fuels ignorance which in turn powers hatred and violence.

Religion is superstition, and therefore deserves to be abolished.

We've already talked about how some Christians are more tolerant than you. Does that mean all atheists should be abolished, because they aren't tolerant?

[Spendulus]

Consensual sex doesn't hurt anybody. Altering biological sex doesn't hurt anybody. Violence hurts. Hatred hurts.

Superstition fuels ignorance which in turn powers hatred and violence.

Religion is superstition, and therefore deserves to be abolished.

Very ignorant response.  Of course surgery and hormone treatments have failure rates, rates in which patients die, catch infectious diseases, and rates for which the treatments have various side effects.

Of course consensual sex can and always has, hurted people, both emotionally and physically, a certain percent of the time.  Ever heard of STDs?

Sounds kind of .... BULLYING on your part .... to me ......

[mamafii]

transgender is choice for human,
if they born woman or men, if they are not to received it from GOd cause they pleasant with their choice. i think its okey.
people having freedom and choice for life.
life rifht from they born in this world.

[Spendulus]

We've already talked about how some Christians are more tolerant than you. Does that mean all atheists should be abolished, because they aren't tolerant?

There is only one surefire method of pattern recognition, and that is science.

Asimov and Shermer were/are not haters.  Or bullies.

[Beliathon]

Asimov and Shermer were/are not haters.  Or bullies.

Go cry to someone who cares, theist. Yes, I'm a hard teacher, but self-evident truth is self-evident truth. The earnest seeker must not give any consideration to it's source.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Consensual sex doesn't hurt anybody. Altering biological sex doesn't hurt anybody. Violence hurts. Hatred hurts.

Superstition fuels ignorance which in turn powers hatred and violence.

Religion is superstition, and therefore deserves to be abolished.

We've already talked about how some Christians are more tolerant than you. Does that mean all atheists should be abolished, because they aren't tolerant?

There is only one surefire method of pattern recognition, and that is science.

You said consensual sex doesn't hurt anybody, Christians are for consensual sex. Altering biological sex doesn't hurt anybody, I totally believe it does, but people are free to do it. Violence hurts, Christians are against violence, and Hatred hurts, and Christians are against hate.

So the only thing you got going for yourself is believing that altering someone's biological sex doesn't hurt anybody, it's the only thing Christians would disagree with in that sentence. But, Christians shouldn't be stopping someone forcibly from going ahead and doing that. So that's moot too.

Your last post doesn't really argue what I was saying...it was out of place, and not really relevant. You're intolerant of a person because they're Christian when all of your previous points are moot.

[Beliathon]

Bethalion if you can't keep your bullshit contained to threads where they are on topic I am going to start reporting your posts (I suggest others do the same). The entirety of the politics and society section is not your personal toilet to dump your ideological bullshit.

LOL! Yes, please bother the mods with your childish irrelevant whiny horseshit.

(image quoted below)

FYI, Politics & Society isn't my toilet, it's my personal fucktoy. Suck it up, Princess Peach.

(image quoted below)

Where did you think you were? Some Bible-belt School? This is the internet, you come armed with Deep Reason or you get wrecked and laughed at. No one will protect you here when you reveal your ignorance.

On topic:

(image quoted below)

[TECSHARE]

No one likes idiots shitting up every single thread with cultist bullshit either.

(ps, posting a picture about transgender person after your off topic post doesn't just magically make you on topic.)


Quoting for reference:

Bethalion if you can't keep your bullshit contained to threads where they are on topic I am going to start reporting your posts (I suggest others do the same). The entirety of the politics and society section is not your personal toilet to dump your ideological bullshit.

LOL! Yes, please bother the mods with your childish irrelevant whiny horseshit.

[/size]Suck it up, Princess Peach.


FYI, Politics & Society isn't my toilet, it's my personal fucktoy.



Where did you think you were? This is the internet, you come armed with Heavy Reason or you get wrecked and laughed at.

On topic:

Childish? Your inability to communicate in anything but memes is not childish at all. Reason? Spongebob is pretty convincing empirical data, you got me there. PS, I wonder if anyone else finds it ironic that a social justice cultist like you supposedly arguing for gender equality would label some one with effeminate labels as if it were an insult. Way to practice what you preach

[Beliathon]

Childish? Your inability to communicate in anything but memes is not childish at all. Reason? Spongebob is pretty convincing empirical data, you got me there.

ITT: Butthurt Theistard threatens to call mom and get me in trouble; later accuses me of childishness.

Hey, at least he didn't burn me alive (yet)!

[TECSHARE]

Childish? Your inability to communicate in anything but memes is not childish at all. Reason? Spongebob is pretty convincing empirical data, you got me there.

ITT: Butthurt Theistard threatens to call mom and get me in trouble; later accuses me of childishness.

Hey, at least he didn't burn me alive (yet)!

The adults are trying to have a discussion with out your constant off topic propagandizing. Propagandize your own threads and let the big kids have an actual debate. Better watch yourself, that "fucktoy" might bite your dick off. Ironically then you should have no problems staying on topic because you will have plenty of transgender issues to discuss.

[Beliathon]

The adults are trying to have a discussion with out your constant off topic propagandizing.

Given there is a functional ignore button right there beneath my avatar, I wonder why TECSHARE feels the need to call down mods to silence me? Could it be that he is not concerned with what he sees, but rather what you see, dear readers?

"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for he dreams himself your master."

Better watch yourself, that "fucktoy" might bite your dick off.

Ahh, there's that not-so-subtle violent undertone you theists are famous for. What, you want to make my soul SUPER pure with the agony of a severed cock? No thanks pal, you fuckers already robbed me of my foreskin when I was a defenseless infant, I'll be keeping the rest.

Ask yourself: why do you always bring it back to pain, suffering, and violence? In times past, this debate would be settled by people like you murdering people like me, usually after a good bit of torture. Now that this avenue is no longer available to you, what tools remain with which you can defend your faith / attack my reason?

Sooner or later you must realize that violence and deception were all religion ever really had. A two-trick pony, and the internet is robbing you of both tricks! Your worldview is doomed! You know it's true.

[TECSHARE]

The adults are trying to have a discussion with out your constant off topic propagandizing.

Given there is a functional ignore button right next to my name, I wonder why TECSHARE wants to call down mods to silence me?

Could it be that he is not concerned with what he sees, but rather what you see, dear readers?

"Beware those who would deny you access to information, for the dream themselves your masters."

Better watch yourself, that "fucktoy" might bite your dick off.

Ahh, there's that not-so-subtle violent undertone you theists are famous for. What is it, you want to make my soul SUPER pure with the agony of a severed dick? Ask yourself: why does it always comes back to pain, suffering, and violence with you people?

Ignoring you doesn't change the fact that you destroy any actually legitimate debate with your baseless dogmas and evangelizing.  I don't want to silence you, I just want to limit the endless stream of fecal matter that flows from your mouth to the raw sewage holding areas you call your threads so the rest of us can have an adult discussion with things like facts and scientific studies. Still waiting for you to quote any theist statement I have made on this forum, but that isn't necessary because everyone whom disagrees with you is a theist aren't they?

Again: the topic is "Transgender", not "Liathon calls everyone theists and argues endlessly about religion."

Dr. Money And The Boy With No Penis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUTcwqR4Q4Y

[Beliathon]

"YOU GUIZE, THIZ THRED IS SERIOUS BIDNESS!"

Dr. Money And The Boy With No Penis

[TECSHARE]

"YOU GUIZE, THIZ THRED IS SERIOUS BIDNESS!"

Dr. Money And The Boy With No Penis

I am glad you think that the grandfather of your theories forcing a boy to live as a girl from infancy against his will eventually resulting in his suicide is so hilarious. I can't blame you though, after all the title did have the word "penis" in it, and we can't expect people like you who are emotionally at the level of a preschooler to take anything like this seriously.

Dr. Money And The Boy With No Penis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUTcwqR4Q4Y

[cooldgamer]

Well this thread certainly got derailed fast.  Back on topic, the experiment posted above is a massive violation of scientific ethics and plain common sense.  Forcing someone to change their gender identity based on an accident is just.. wow.  Just because you don't have the parts doesn't mean you automatically switch mentally to the other gender.

It does seem to show that gender is hardwired into the brain one way or the other (as it should be).  The findings could also be used as an argument that trans people can't just accept the gender they were assigned, since the general consensus of the medical community says the hormones bursts that decide it are before the child is born

Edit for source with more studies

[TECSHARE]

Well this thread certainly got derailed fast.  Back on topic, the experiment posted above is a massive violation of scientific ethics and plain common sense.  Forcing someone to change their gender identity based on an accident is just.. wow.  Just because you don't have the parts doesn't mean you automatically switch mentally to the other gender.

It does seem to show that gender is hardwired into the brain one way or the other (as it should be).  The findings could also be used as an argument that trans people can't just accept the gender they were assigned, since the general consensus of the medical community says the hormones bursts that decide it are before the child is born

Edit for source with more studies

You bring up a very important point that social justice warriors and progressive cultists like to dance around. There is a biological component to gender identity. Gender identity is not just a social construct, it also has basis in biology and hormonal balance. Of course to bring this point up is to some how deny transgender people the ability to identify as they like and even a form of hate speech! Better not discuss any facts, it might offend some one's ideology.

[cooldgamer]

Well this thread certainly got derailed fast.  Back on topic, the experiment posted above is a massive violation of scientific ethics and plain common sense.  Forcing someone to change their gender identity based on an accident is just.. wow.  Just because you don't have the parts doesn't mean you automatically switch mentally to the other gender.

It does seem to show that gender is hardwired into the brain one way or the other (as it should be).  The findings could also be used as an argument that trans people can't just accept the gender they were assigned, since the general consensus of the medical community says the hormones bursts that decide it are before the child is born

Edit for source with more studies

You bring up a very important point that social justice warriors and progressive cultists like to dance around. There is a biological component to gender identity. Gender identity is not just a social construct, it also has basis in biology and hormonal balance. Of course to bring this point up is to some how deny transgender people the ability to identify as they like and even a form of hate speech! Better not discuss any facts, it might offend some one's ideology.

I don't particularly think that they were denying that there is a biological aspect.  On the contrary, the point seeming to be made is that it is not a choice one way or the other, and people should be able to identify with whatever they feel is right for them.  Trans people should really be happy with these findings as it puts a dent in the 'You're just a freak' mentality some people have.

It is a pretty sad day when politics get in the way of science. 

[TECSHARE]

Well this thread certainly got derailed fast.  Back on topic, the experiment posted above is a massive violation of scientific ethics and plain common sense.  Forcing someone to change their gender identity based on an accident is just.. wow.  Just because you don't have the parts doesn't mean you automatically switch mentally to the other gender.

It does seem to show that gender is hardwired into the brain one way or the other (as it should be).  The findings could also be used as an argument that trans people can't just accept the gender they were assigned, since the general consensus of the medical community says the hormones bursts that decide it are before the child is born

Edit for source with more studies

You bring up a very important point that social justice warriors and progressive cultists like to dance around. There is a biological component to gender identity. Gender identity is not just a social construct, it also has basis in biology and hormonal balance. Of course to bring this point up is to some how deny transgender people the ability to identify as they like and even a form of hate speech! Better not discuss any facts, it might offend some one's ideology.

I don't particularly think that they were denying that there is a biological aspect.  On the contrary, the point seeming to be made is that it is not a choice one way or the other, and people should be able to identify with whatever they feel is right for them.  Trans people should really be happy with these findings as it puts a dent in the 'You're just a freak' mentality some people have.

It is a pretty sad day when politics get in the way of science. 

I find most social justice warriors do in fact deny the biological component of homosexuality/transgender people, because in order for them to justify their "progressive" cult ideology, they have to sell people on the idea that society is 100% responsible and therefore needs to be forcefully reorganized to accommodate their progressive cultist dogmas. I would recommend looking at the history of Feminism and Marxism, and how closely the two ideologies are intertwined a long with many of the same goals, such as destruction of the family unit and abolition of religion. It will provide some amazing insights into the true driving forces behind all these social movements happening today operating under the self proclaimed guise of tolerance and equality.

[Spendulus]

Well this thread certainly got derailed fast.  Back on topic, the experiment posted above is a massive violation of scientific ethics and plain common sense.  Forcing someone to change their gender identity based on an accident is just.. wow.  Just because you don't have the parts doesn't mean you automatically switch mentally to the other gender.

It does seem to show that gender is hardwired into the brain one way or the other (as it should be).  The findings could also be used as an argument that trans people can't just accept the gender they were assigned, since the general consensus of the medical community says the hormones bursts that decide it are before the child is born

Edit for source with more studies

You bring up a very important point that social justice warriors and progressive cultists like to dance around. There is a biological component to gender identity. Gender identity is not just a social construct, it also has basis in biology and hormonal balance. Of course to bring this point up is to some how deny transgender people the ability to identify as they like and even a form of hate speech! Better not discuss any facts, it might offend some one's ideology.

I don't particularly think that they were denying that there is a biological aspect.  On the contrary, the point seeming to be made is that it is not a choice one way or the other, and people should be able to identify with whatever they feel is right for them.  Trans people should really be happy with these findings as it puts a dent in the 'You're just a freak' mentality some people have.

It is a pretty sad day when politics get in the way of science.  

It's interesting that near the beginning of this thread, Beliaton tried to derail the topic with the same bullshit.

And I suggested that the broader issues of mixed sexuality be considered as a background for gender identity issues with no apparent physical problem.  In fact, it is specifically categorized within the spectrum listed.  Re quoting the source document and partially pasting it -


http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

Below we provide a summary of statistics drawn from an article by Brown University researcher Anne Fausto-Sterling.2 The basis for that article was an extensive review of the medical literature from 1955 to 1998 aimed at producing numeric estimates for the frequency of sex variations. Note that the frequency of some of these conditions, such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia, differs for different populations. These statistics are approximations.
Not XX and not XY   one in 1,666 births
Klinefelter (XXY)   one in 1,000 births
Androgen insensitivity syndrome   one in 13,000 births
Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome   one in 130,000 births
Classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia   one in 13,000 births
Late onset adrenal hyperplasia   one in 66 individuals
Vaginal agenesis   one in 6,000 births
Ovotestes   one in 83,000 births
Idiopathic (no discernable medical cause)   one in 110,000 births
Iatrogenic (caused by medical treatment, for instance progestin administered to pregnant mother)   no estimate
5 alpha reductase deficiency   no estimate
Mixed gonadal dysgenesis   no estimate
Complete gonadal dysgenesis   one in 150,000 births
Hypospadias (urethral opening in perineum or along penile shaft)   one in 2,000 births
Hypospadias (urethral opening between corona and tip of glans penis)   one in 770 births
Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female   one in 100 births
Total number of people receiving surgery to “normalize” genital appearance   one or two in 1,000 births

1 Dreger, Alice Domurat. 1998. Ambiguous Sex—or Ambivalent Medicine? Ethical Issues in the Treatment of Intersexuality. Hastings Center Report, 28, 3: 24-35.

2 Blackless, Melanie, Anthony Charuvastra, Amanda Derryck, Anne Fausto-Sterling, Karl Lauzanne, and Ellen Lee. 2000. How sexually dimorphic are we? Review and synthesis. American Journal of Human Biology 12:151-166.

Frankly I'd be far more concerned about the problems of a teenager who had both male and female organs trying to learn how to navigate relationships than someone who was mixed up in their head.  But the current discussion of "trans gender" ignores this and focuses on the mixed up as something that needs special attention and special pleading.

Total bullshit.

Whether the SJW like it or or not, issues of acceptance of "trans gender" really are a subset of issues of acceptance of intersexed people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

...these issues are recognized as human rights abuses, with statements from international[7][8] and national human rights and ethics institutions.[9][10] Intersex organizations have also issued joint statements over several years as part of an International Intersex Forum. In April 2015, Malta became the first country to outlaw non-consensual medical interventions to modify sex anatomy, including that of intersex people.[11][12]

Like all individuals, intersex people have various gender identities. Most identify as either a woman or man, while some may identify as neither exclusively a woman nor exclusively a man. Some intersex individuals may be raised as a woman or man but then identify with another gender identity later in life....

Finally, note that the worst human rights abuses toward "transgender" occur not in the liberal Western world in which the SJW preaches through their Pink Mafia burkas, but in Islam, where segregation of male and female is much more emphasized.    As usual, SJW stay in a safe and tolerant place, to preach their offensive rhetoric.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Well this thread certainly got derailed fast.  Back on topic, the experiment posted above is a massive violation of scientific ethics and plain common sense.  Forcing someone to change their gender identity based on an accident is just.. wow.  Just because you don't have the parts doesn't mean you automatically switch mentally to the other gender.

It does seem to show that gender is hardwired into the brain one way or the other (as it should be).  The findings could also be used as an argument that trans people can't just accept the gender they were assigned, since the general consensus of the medical community says the hormones bursts that decide it are before the child is born

Edit for source with more studies

You bring up a very important point that social justice warriors and progressive cultists like to dance around. There is a biological component to gender identity. Gender identity is not just a social construct, it also has basis in biology and hormonal balance. Of course to bring this point up is to some how deny transgender people the ability to identify as they like and even a form of hate speech! Better not discuss any facts, it might offend some one's ideology.

Let's not ignore that our men are becoming feminized from the foods they eat, and plastics they use: Is society celebrating something they should be furious about? (Feminized Men)

These changes happen to women too, and then affect their children, and those children's children, to the point that the babies are deprived of the biological stuff that might make them identify as male over female.

[Wilikon]

Colorado transgender woman challenges Aetna's denial of coverage for surgery



A Colorado transgender woman’s insurance company has denied her coverage for gender reassignment surgery she says is medically necessary and should be ensured by state law and policy.

Ashlyn Trider, 33, said Aetna Life Insurance Company’s refusal to pay for gender reassignment surgery prescribed by her doctor violates Colorado law. The Transgender Legal Defense Fund & Education Fund has demanded Aetna reverse its decision.

“This is a medical condition. I was born with it,” Trider said. “It’s medically necessary surgery. My doctor has strongly urged this procedure get done. It’s pretty straightforward.”

The denial of coverage violates Colorado law, said TLDEF attorney Ethan Rice. State law and Division of Insurance 2013 guidelines require companies to cover medically necessary care for transgender policyholders on the same terms as all other policyholders.

“It’s pretty clear guidance,” Rice said. “The crux here is that a lot of insurance companies are still excluding coverage. Governments are taking action to end discrimination, but the transgender community still struggles to get the care (it) needs.”

Colorado is one of 10 states, along with the District of Columbia, barring health insurance discrimination against transgender people, Rice said.

A Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies’s bulletin B-B.49 states health insurers cannot deny coverage of treatments for transgender policyholders if the same treatments are covered for other policyholders.

Aetna officials say they can’t discuss any health information about members without signed waivers, but the denial letter sent to Trider says her “plan has a specific exclusion for the requested service or treatment.”



http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_28547845/colorado-transgender-woman-challenges-aetnas-denial-coverage-surgery

[Beliathon]

It is a pretty sad day when politics get in the way of science.  

Christianity has been leveraging politics against science for a long time in the USA, because profit loves ignorance and despises knowledge. Consider the case of Mississippi, our nations most pious Christian state, where one school district was recently fined for opening an assembly with prayer. Mississippi has one simple role in the United States: stopping Texas from coming in fiftieth in measures of quality of life, health care results, education, and other such evidences of civilisation. It is a proud member of Jesusland, one could argue a Christian Mecca in america.

Things Mississippi ranks 1st in
-Teen pregnancy.
-Infant mortality.
-Poverty.
-Obesity.
-Conservatism.
-Weekly church attendance
-Religiosity generally.

Things Mississippi ranks 50th in
-Human Development Index.
-Per capita GDP.
-Life expectancy.
-General health.
-Science and engineering readiness.
-Oh, and also it was the last state to ratify the 13th Amendment (emancipation proclamation) on Febuary 7th, 2013. Yes, Fucking 2013!

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
― Isaac Asimov

“Ignorance is king. Many would not profit by his abdication. Many enrich themselves by means of his dark monarchy. They are his Court, and in his name they defraud and govern, enrich themselves and perpetuate their power. Even literacy they fear, for the written word is another channel of communication that might cause their enemies to become united. Their weapons are keen-honed, and they use them with skill. They will press the battle upon the world when their interests are threatened, and the violence which follows will last until the structure of society as it now exists is leveled to rubble, and a new society emerges. I am sorry. But that is how I see it.”
― Walter M. Miller Jr., A Canticle for Leibowitz

[Beliathon]

Fun facts about transgender folk in the USA:
-78% reported harassment during K-12 schooling
-35% reported physical assault during K-12 schooling
-12% reported sexual violence during K-12 schooling
-41% of transgender people have attempted suicide

Thanks Christianity!

http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf

Last Week Tonight - Transgender Rights

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Fun facts about transgender folk in the USA:
-78% reported harassment during K-12 schooling
-35% reported physical assault during K-12 schooling
-12% reported sexual violence during K-12 schooling
-41% of transgender people have attempted suicide

Thanks Christianity!

There you go bringing it back to your hate of Christianity. Yet Christians are instructed to treat others as they would be treated.

You're harassing Christians based on their religion, in the same way you wouldn't want these transgenders to be harassed, you are no better than those you claim to hate.

[Beliathon]

There you go bringing it back to your hate of Christianity. Yet Christians are instructed to treat others as they would be treated.

You're harassing Christians based on their religion, in the same way you wouldn't want these transgenders to be harassed, you are no better than those you claim to hate.

It's not the same at all. I'm attacking violence and human suffering, I'm attacking the ignorance at the root of these evils.

If transgender ignorance in a 70% majority transgender nation was causing 40% of Christians to attempt suicide, I'd be attacking a transgender agenda instead of a Christian agenda.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

There you go bringing it back to your hate of Christianity. Yet Christians are instructed to treat others as they would be treated.

You're harassing Christians based on their religion, in the same way you wouldn't want these transgenders to be harassed, you are no better than those you claim to hate.

If transgender ignorance in a 70% majority transgender nation was causing 40% of Christians to attempt suicide, I'd be attacking a transgender agenda instead of a Christian agenda.

The transgenders are not committing suicide because Christians are ignorant about transgenders. They are committing suicide, most likely, due to teasing from sinful people who do not love God.

1 John 4:20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

It is not Christian to hate and bully. So you have a problem with sinners, and yet you continually say it's a problem with Christianity, which is clearly against bullying.

There you go bringing it back to your hate of Christianity. Yet Christians are instructed to treat others as they would be treated.

You're harassing Christians based on their religion, in the same way you wouldn't want these transgenders to be harassed, you are no better than those you claim to hate.

It's not the same at all. I'm attacking violence and human suffering, I'm attacking the ignorance at the root of these ills.

Christianity is not violence and human suffering. Yet you blame Christianity.

[Spendulus]

Colorado transgender woman challenges Aetna's denial of coverage for surgery



A Colorado transgender woman’s insurance company has denied her coverage for gender reassignment surgery she says is medically necessary and should be ensured by state law and policy.

Ashlyn Trider, 33, said Aetna Life Insurance Company’s refusal to pay for gender reassignment surgery prescribed by her doctor violates Colorado law. The Transgender Legal Defense Fund & Education Fund has demanded Aetna reverse its decision.

“This is a medical condition. I was born with it,” Trider said. “It’s medically necessary surgery. My doctor has strongly urged this procedure get done. It’s pretty straightforward.”

The denial of coverage violates Colorado law, said TLDEF attorney Ethan Rice. State law and Division of Insurance 2013 guidelines require companies to cover medically necessary care for transgender policyholders on the same terms as all other policyholders.

“It’s pretty clear guidance,” Rice said. “The crux here is that a lot of insurance companies are still excluding coverage. Governments are taking action to end discrimination, but the transgender community still struggles to get the care (it) needs.”

Colorado is one of 10 states, along with the District of Columbia, barring health insurance discrimination against transgender people, Rice said.

A Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies’s bulletin B-B.49 states health insurers cannot deny coverage of treatments for transgender policyholders if the same treatments are covered for other policyholders.

Aetna officials say they can’t discuss any health information about members without signed waivers, but the denial letter sent to Trider says her “plan has a specific exclusion for the requested service or treatment.”



http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_28547845/colorado-transgender-woman-challenges-aetnas-denial-coverage-surgery

Actually, in the past, intersex individuals were considered to have a "medical Disorder."  Such classification caused early intervention, doctors would do surgery on children to make them more "normal appearing."  This is now very much frowned upon, and the phrase "Disorder" is no longer applied to these individuals. 

Thus I can see good rationales to refusing insurance coverage when there is no "medical disorder" or disease.

The surgery and treatments clearly are elective, and seem to me to be similar to various plastic surgeries to enhance one's appearance or one's attractiveness to the opposite sex.  Note that some fraction of plastic surgeries are to correct abnomalities, and those arguably should be covered.  Note that intersex was considered such, but now is not....

MORE BULLYING - this time of insurance companies.

[TECSHARE]

Is it a crime to misgender somebody?  No, and it never will be (hopefully).  Is it dickish?  Yes, but that's your right as long as it's only words and nobody gets physical. 

Words kill too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

Are there any studies demonstrating that LGBT suicides are a direct result of bullying and harassment and not from hormonal imbalances which are known to cause emotional problems? Oh that's right, you just make this assumption without scientific basis and those studies don't exist.

Re: http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf
Self reported surveys, the pinnacle of scientific method! At least you are learning how to reference things (even if it is still unscientific).

[Spendulus]

There you go bringing it back to your hate of Christianity. Yet Christians are instructed to treat others as they would be treated.

You're harassing Christians based on their religion, in the same way you wouldn't want these transgenders to be harassed, you are no better than those you claim to hate.

If transgender ignorance in a 70% majority transgender nation was causing 40% of Christians to attempt suicide, I'd be attacking a transgender agenda instead of a Christian agenda.

The transgenders are not committing suicide because Christians are ignorant about transgenders. They are committing suicide, most likely, due to teasing from sinful people who do not love God.

1 John 4:20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

It is not Christian to hate and bully. So you have a problem with sinners, and yet you continually say it's a problem with Christianity, which is clearly against bullying.

There you go bringing it back to your hate of Christianity. Yet Christians are instructed to treat others as they would be treated.

You're harassing Christians based on their religion, in the same way you wouldn't want these transgenders to be harassed, you are no better than those you claim to hate.

It's not the same at all. I'm attacking violence and human suffering, I'm attacking the ignorance at the root of these ills.

Christianity is not violence and human suffering. Yet you blame Christianity.

They all drink Coca-cola.  Clearly Coca-cola is responsible for all the LGT suicides.

[Beliathon]

[Beliathon]

[bojan92]

They are people too. It is not needed for someone to understand them. They like what they have become and would like to live like that. That is fine with me everybody has a right to do what he or she wants with their life

[rokkyroad]

They are people too. It is not needed for someone to understand them. They like what they have become and would like to live like that. That is fine with me everybody has a right to do what he or she wants with their life

Exactly.

Where the problem lies is: they want to shove it down everyones' throats. It's not enough to go about doing their own thing. No one cares but they want to stand out and be special I guess. 

I lived in a smaller community where two transgender people resided. They went about their business like everyone else. No one bothered them and they fit in fine. No one would ever have known except for the fact they had been born and raised there.

[TECSHARE]

They are people too. It is not needed for someone to understand them. They like what they have become and would like to live like that. That is fine with me everybody has a right to do what he or she wants with their life

Exactly.

Where the problem lies is: they want to shove it down everyones' throats. It's not enough to go about doing their own thing. No one cares but they want to stand out and be special I guess. 

I lived in a smaller community where two transgender people resided. They went about their business like everyone else. No one bothered them and they fit in fine. No one would ever have known except for the fact they had been born and raised there.

That's the lynchpin of this whole debate. These activist groups don't speak for the majority of LGBT peoples. Most LGBT people would be more than happy to live in an environment of tolerance, like everyone has a right to. What these groups are demanding is acceptance, and no one has a right to force anyone else to accept their own world view. All of these overreaching policies these activist groups are trying to push effect all of us. Opposition to them is not equivalent to bigotry or hatred no matter how much they wish to cast it in this light.

[rokkyroad]

That's the lynchpin of this whole debate. These activist groups don't speak for the majority of LGBT peoples. Most LGBT people would be more than happy to live in an environment of tolerance, like everyone has a right to. What these groups are demanding is acceptance, and no one has a right to force anyone else to accept their own world view. All of these overreaching policies these activist groups are trying to push effect all of us. Opposition to them is not equivalent to bigotry or hatred no matter how much they wish to cast it in this light.

You hit the nail on the head and so eloquently. Thankyou.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

That's the lynchpin of this whole debate. These activist groups don't speak for the majority of LGBT peoples. Most LGBT people would be more than happy to live in an environment of tolerance, like everyone has a right to. What these groups are demanding is acceptance, and no one has a right to force anyone else to accept their own world view. All of these overreaching policies these activist groups are trying to push effect all of us. Opposition to them is not equivalent to bigotry or hatred no matter how much they wish to cast it in this light.

You hit the nail on the head and so eloquently. Thankyou.

Agreed.

It also shows that the ones campaigning for acceptance, are being hypocritical, because they want everyone to accept them, but they don't accept that other religions don't accept transgenders/homosexuals.

It would be great if everyone just tolerated people different then themselves, which can happen, but people keep pushing against each other for acceptance, and are being hypocritical, and I place Christians not tolerating transgenders/homosexuals in that hypocritical state too.

[TECSHARE]

One other big point also is that other protected classes are fairly easy to document. For example, you can tell some one is a minority (usually) just by looking at them, and the difference in the way they look is usually the source of discrimination. If you are discriminating against some one's religion, there are usually some kind of records or at least witnesses to ones observance of whatever faith you choose. If you are discriminated against by age or gender, you can just check their drivers license or birth certificate etc.

How do you prove you are gay? What is to stop individuals from just claiming to be gay in order to bring frivolous criminal and civil charges against various organizations and individuals? Don't get me wrong, I am against prejudice of any kind, but if the laws can not be effectively enforced, isn't that a pretty big problem for everyone?

Current list of protected classes in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

[jaysabi]

That's the lynchpin of this whole debate. These activist groups don't speak for the majority of LGBT peoples. Most LGBT people would be more than happy to live in an environment of tolerance, like everyone has a right to. What these groups are demanding is acceptance, and no one has a right to force anyone else to accept their own world view. All of these overreaching policies these activist groups are trying to push effect all of us. Opposition to them is not equivalent to bigotry or hatred no matter how much they wish to cast it in this light.

You hit the nail on the head and so eloquently. Thankyou.

How is "acceptance" and "tolerance" different? They appear the same to me, as a tolerant society is built upon acceptance of all its members.

[TECSHARE]

That's the lynchpin of this whole debate. These activist groups don't speak for the majority of LGBT peoples. Most LGBT people would be more than happy to live in an environment of tolerance, like everyone has a right to. What these groups are demanding is acceptance, and no one has a right to force anyone else to accept their own world view. All of these overreaching policies these activist groups are trying to push effect all of us. Opposition to them is not equivalent to bigotry or hatred no matter how much they wish to cast it in this light.

You hit the nail on the head and so eloquently. Thankyou.

How is "acceptance" and "tolerance" different? They appear the same to me, as a tolerant society is built upon acceptance of all its members.

Full Definition of TOLERANCE
1:  capacity to endure pain or hardship :  endurance, fortitude, stamina

2
a :  sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own
b :  the act of allowing something :  toleration

3:  the allowable deviation from a standard; especially :  the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tolerance

Full Definition of ACCEPTANCE
1:  an agreeing either expressly or by conduct to the act or offer of another so that a contract is concluded and the parties become legally bound

2:  the quality or state of being accepted or acceptable

3:  the act of accepting :  the fact of being accepted :  approval
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acceptance

In short, everyone has a right to tolerance. Tolerance means people allow each other to live their lives in peace even if they do not agree. Acceptance is basically synonymous with agreement or approval. There are two very different things. One individual does not have the right to force another individual to approve of their ideology. Everyone however does have a right to tolerance in this country. Without understanding and allowing both, this very diverse nation would rip itself apart, because the fact is we will never all agree on anything.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

That's the lynchpin of this whole debate. These activist groups don't speak for the majority of LGBT peoples. Most LGBT people would be more than happy to live in an environment of tolerance, like everyone has a right to. What these groups are demanding is acceptance, and no one has a right to force anyone else to accept their own world view. All of these overreaching policies these activist groups are trying to push effect all of us. Opposition to them is not equivalent to bigotry or hatred no matter how much they wish to cast it in this light.

You hit the nail on the head and so eloquently. Thankyou.

How is "acceptance" and "tolerance" different? They appear the same to me, as a tolerant society is built upon acceptance of all its members.

Full Definition of TOLERANCE
1:  capacity to endure pain or hardship :  endurance, fortitude, stamina

2
a :  sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own
b :  the act of allowing something :  toleration

3:  the allowable deviation from a standard; especially :  the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tolerance

Full Definition of ACCEPTANCE
1:  an agreeing either expressly or by conduct to the act or offer of another so that a contract is concluded and the parties become legally bound

2:  the quality or state of being accepted or acceptable

3:  the act of accepting :  the fact of being accepted :  approval
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acceptance

In short, everyone has a right to tolerance. Tolerance means people allow each other to live their lives in peace even if they do not agree. Acceptance is basically synonymous with agreement or approval. There are two very different things. One individual does not have the right to force another individual to approve of their ideology. Everyone however does have a right to tolerance in this country. Without understanding and allowing both, this very diverse nation would rip itself apart, because the fact is we will never all agree on anything.

Apparently, the most (vocal) in the US do not understand this, and it is ripping us apart.

[TECSHARE]

Apparently, the most (vocal) in the US do not understand this, and it is ripping us apart.

This is why I vociferously point out the Marxist roots of such activities, because it clearly aligns with Marxist ideologies. Marxist groups infiltrate these activist groups and use them much like a parasite uses its host. It has no concern for the life of the host as long as it can preserve itself long enough to reach its own goals then jump ship. Many of these groups have nothing at all to do with their publicly purported causes.

Some of the LGBT activist groups have picked up this methodology from feminist activist groups, which have found this strategy very successful in creating general division and the destruction of the family unit up until this point. This is arguably the smallest divisible unit that makes up the structure of society in the USA. The destruction of religion is also another clear goal of Marxist doctrine. We see many activist groups targeting these two ideas currently, either directly or indirectly. Feminism as we know it today as a movement has its origins within Marxist doctrines, and these doctrines are being deployed via many other activist groups in order to give them an air of legitimacy and distract from their true goals. This country needs more tolerance, but some things just shouldn't be accepted.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Apparently, the most (vocal) in the US do not understand this, and it is ripping us apart.

This is why I vociferously point out the Marxist roots of such activities, because it clearly aligns with Marxist ideologies. Marxist groups infiltrate these activist groups and use them much like a parasite uses its host. It has no concern for the life of the host as long as it can preserve itself long enough to reach its own goals then jump ship. Many of these groups have nothing at all to do with their publicly purported causes.

Some of the LGBT activist groups have picked up this methodology from feminist activist groups, which have found this strategy very successful in creating general division and the destruction of the family unit up until this point. This is arguably the smallest divisible unit that makes up the structure of society in the USA. The destruction of religion is also another clear goal of Marxist doctrine. We see many activist groups targeting these two ideas currently, either directly or indirectly. Feminism as we know it today as a movement has its origins within Marxist doctrines, and these doctrines are being deployed via many other activist groups in order to give them an air of legitimacy and distract from their true goals. This country needs more tolerance, but some things just shouldn't be accepted.

I am a woman and have always been offended by feminists, so I can see how some transgenders/homosexuals would be offended by those who go too far. The strings really do seem to be pulled by the very vocal elite, in charge of mainstream media, etc.

[TECSHARE]

Apparently, the most (vocal) in the US do not understand this, and it is ripping us apart.

This is why I vociferously point out the Marxist roots of such activities, because it clearly aligns with Marxist ideologies. Marxist groups infiltrate these activist groups and use them much like a parasite uses its host. It has no concern for the life of the host as long as it can preserve itself long enough to reach its own goals then jump ship. Many of these groups have nothing at all to do with their publicly purported causes.

Some of the LGBT activist groups have picked up this methodology from feminist activist groups, which have found this strategy very successful in creating general division and the destruction of the family unit up until this point. This is arguably the smallest divisible unit that makes up the structure of society in the USA. The destruction of religion is also another clear goal of Marxist doctrine. We see many activist groups targeting these two ideas currently, either directly or indirectly. Feminism as we know it today as a movement has its origins within Marxist doctrines, and these doctrines are being deployed via many other activist groups in order to give them an air of legitimacy and distract from their true goals. This country needs more tolerance, but some things just shouldn't be accepted.

I am a woman and have always been offended by feminists, so I can see how some transgenders/homosexuals would be offended by those who go too far. The strings really do seem to be pulled by the very vocal elite, in charge of mainstream media, etc.

Divide and conquer.

[jaysabi]

That's the lynchpin of this whole debate. These activist groups don't speak for the majority of LGBT peoples. Most LGBT people would be more than happy to live in an environment of tolerance, like everyone has a right to. What these groups are demanding is acceptance, and no one has a right to force anyone else to accept their own world view. All of these overreaching policies these activist groups are trying to push effect all of us. Opposition to them is not equivalent to bigotry or hatred no matter how much they wish to cast it in this light.

You hit the nail on the head and so eloquently. Thankyou.

How is "acceptance" and "tolerance" different? They appear the same to me, as a tolerant society is built upon acceptance of all its members.

In short, everyone has a right to tolerance. Tolerance means people allow each other to live their lives in peace even if they do not agree. Acceptance is basically synonymous with agreement or approval. There are two very different things. One individual does not have the right to force another individual to approve of their ideology. Everyone however does have a right to tolerance in this country. Without understanding and allowing both, this very diverse nation would rip itself apart, because the fact is we will never all agree on anything.

I highly agree with your sentiment here, with the caveat that to me, "tolerance" and "acceptance" seem like synonyms to me. But let's take your differentiation of the two; I think it accurately describes everyone. Strip out gender identity and look at any two politically opposed entities and it plays the same. Liberals and conservatives are tolerant of each other, but they're both fighting for "acceptance" of their ideology by the other group (to use your differentiation of it). This is not a transgender-specific issue, but a question of how any one group interacts with any other group.

[TECSHARE]

That's the lynchpin of this whole debate. These activist groups don't speak for the majority of LGBT peoples. Most LGBT people would be more than happy to live in an environment of tolerance, like everyone has a right to. What these groups are demanding is acceptance, and no one has a right to force anyone else to accept their own world view. All of these overreaching policies these activist groups are trying to push effect all of us. Opposition to them is not equivalent to bigotry or hatred no matter how much they wish to cast it in this light.

You hit the nail on the head and so eloquently. Thankyou.

How is "acceptance" and "tolerance" different? They appear the same to me, as a tolerant society is built upon acceptance of all its members.

In short, everyone has a right to tolerance. Tolerance means people allow each other to live their lives in peace even if they do not agree. Acceptance is basically synonymous with agreement or approval. There are two very different things. One individual does not have the right to force another individual to approve of their ideology. Everyone however does have a right to tolerance in this country. Without understanding and allowing both, this very diverse nation would rip itself apart, because the fact is we will never all agree on anything.

I highly agree with your sentiment here, with the caveat that to me, "tolerance" and "acceptance" seem like synonyms to me. But let's take your differentiation of the two; I think it accurately describes everyone. Strip out gender identity and look at any two politically opposed entities and it plays the same. Liberals and conservatives are tolerant of each other, but they're both fighting for "acceptance" of their ideology by the other group (to use your differentiation of it). This is not a transgender-specific issue, but a question of how any one group interacts with any other group.

They are in fact two different words with two different meanings, even if they are closely related, it is still an important differentiation. People have a right to be free from abuse and harassment, but to force another to agree with your ideologies is a fundamentally flawed concept that can only be achieved thru force if at all. Attempting to convince others of your ideology is not equivalent to demanding it as if it is something you are entitled to. Acceptance can only be earned, not forced.

The economy of ideas demands that all ideologies are compared and the most efficient and effective of those ideologies will rise to the top by displacing the flawed ideologies. Anyone who violates this social contract does not deserve a place at the table with the rest of civilized society.

After all, if you truly believe your ideas to be righteous and true, you should have no problem with them being tested in the crucible of civilization. Good ideas have a way of rising to the top by the force of their own momentum and by the increase in efficiency that is created by the solution to the current system's own imperfections.

[TECSHARE]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

Enough people do this and it will be like The Boy who Cried Wolf sooner or later.....

[cooldgamer]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

This is an absolute shit thing to do, but not really specific to LGBT.  A black person could spray-paint the n-word on their house and do the same thing. 

At least they got found out and will get what they deserve, karma's a bitch

[Sourgummies]

Or a environmentalist can break a pipeline.

Always going to be people screaming foul in any group to gain attention and prop up their side.

[jayce]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

People will do anything to get money in many ways, even some of them will take the advantage of racism or LGBT issues on this.

[bitcollins85]

It's so fascinating what we can do with modern science! On one side there's a obviously male manly man and yet that man becomes a obviously female looking girly girl! It blows my mind!

[TECSHARE]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

This is an absolute shit thing to do, but not really specific to LGBT.  A black person could spray-paint the n-word on their house and do the same thing. 

At least they got found out and will get what they deserve, karma's a bitch

No, it is not specific to LGBT people, but unlike a black person, you can't really prove if some one is actually gay or not. This opens up abuse of the idea of protected classes on a whole other level. Literally anyone could make these claims for almost any reason. Try pretending to be black and see how that works out for you.

[dodgecharger]

It intrigues me that as a thing transgender exists. I just personally can't imagine the feelings that lead someone to believe they are the wrong gender. I just can't fathom what it would be like to look down at my genitals and think 'this is wrong.

[cooldgamer]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

This is an absolute shit thing to do, but not really specific to LGBT.  A black person could spray-paint the n-word on their house and do the same thing. 

At least they got found out and will get what they deserve, karma's a bitch

No, it is not specific to LGBT people, but unlike a black person, you can't really prove if some one is actually gay or not. This opens up abuse of the idea of protected classes on a whole other level. Literally anyone could make these claims for almost any reason. Try pretending to be black and see how that works out for you.

True, but it doesn't stop some that are not white from taking advantage of it.  Although it does seem to be more common among the LGBT community, I'd guess this is because of the recent media coverage giving the ideas to those who would do this type of thing.

http://fakehatecrimes.org/

[TECSHARE]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

This is an absolute shit thing to do, but not really specific to LGBT.  A black person could spray-paint the n-word on their house and do the same thing.  

At least they got found out and will get what they deserve, karma's a bitch

No, it is not specific to LGBT people, but unlike a black person, you can't really prove if some one is actually gay or not. This opens up abuse of the idea of protected classes on a whole other level. Literally anyone could make these claims for almost any reason. Try pretending to be black and see how that works out for you.

True, but it doesn't stop some that are not white from taking advantage of it.  Although it does seem to be more common among the LGBT community, I'd guess this is because of the recent media coverage giving the ideas to those who would do this type of thing.

http://fakehatecrimes.org/

I think part of the reason it may be more common in the LGBT community is because of the Marxist roots of the socialized gender identity theory where they believe gender identity is 100% a result of societal conditioning. This kind of rational can make it a lot easier for people to justify these things in their minds because it promotes a unique sense of entitlement that results from the idea that all of society has stolen your true identity from you. As they are a smaller group compared to any racial minority group, pretty much anyone is a justifiable target based on that ideology.

[cooldgamer]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

This is an absolute shit thing to do, but not really specific to LGBT.  A black person could spray-paint the n-word on their house and do the same thing.  

At least they got found out and will get what they deserve, karma's a bitch

No, it is not specific to LGBT people, but unlike a black person, you can't really prove if some one is actually gay or not. This opens up abuse of the idea of protected classes on a whole other level. Literally anyone could make these claims for almost any reason. Try pretending to be black and see how that works out for you.

True, but it doesn't stop some that are not white from taking advantage of it.  Although it does seem to be more common among the LGBT community, I'd guess this is because of the recent media coverage giving the ideas to those who would do this type of thing.

http://fakehatecrimes.org/

I think part of the reason it may be more common in the LGBT community is because of the Marxist roots of the socialized gender identity theory where they believe gender identity is 100% a result of societal conditioning. This kind of rational can make it a lot easier for people to justify these things in their minds because it promotes a unique sense of entitlement that results from the idea that all of society has stolen your true identity from you. As they are a smaller group compared to any racial minority group, pretty much anyone is a justifiable target based on that ideology.

For tumblrites?  Possibly.  For the everyday LGBT person, they just want to live their lives.  There are bad apples in every population, but saying being LGBT gives you some messed up ideology is a pretty sweeping generalization.

For comparison, an estimated 2 to 8 percent of rape accusations are false.  If we go off the lower number, There are 1875 false rape accusations per year.  This means that there could be 118 false hate crimes and still fall within about the same area, up to 400+ if we use the larger estimate.  These numbers fall well within the range of the FBI's hate crime statistics, which have 1260 LGBT-related hate crimes

Rape statistics
false accusations



edited for better sources instead of guesstimations

[TECSHARE]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

This is an absolute shit thing to do, but not really specific to LGBT.  A black person could spray-paint the n-word on their house and do the same thing.  

At least they got found out and will get what they deserve, karma's a bitch

No, it is not specific to LGBT people, but unlike a black person, you can't really prove if some one is actually gay or not. This opens up abuse of the idea of protected classes on a whole other level. Literally anyone could make these claims for almost any reason. Try pretending to be black and see how that works out for you.

True, but it doesn't stop some that are not white from taking advantage of it.  Although it does seem to be more common among the LGBT community, I'd guess this is because of the recent media coverage giving the ideas to those who would do this type of thing.

http://fakehatecrimes.org/

I think part of the reason it may be more common in the LGBT community is because of the Marxist roots of the socialized gender identity theory where they believe gender identity is 100% a result of societal conditioning. This kind of rational can make it a lot easier for people to justify these things in their minds because it promotes a unique sense of entitlement that results from the idea that all of society has stolen your true identity from you. As they are a smaller group compared to any racial minority group, pretty much anyone is a justifiable target based on that ideology.

For tumblrites?  Possibly.  For the everyday LGBT person, they just want to live their lives.  There are bad apples in every population, but saying being LGBT gives you some messed up ideology is a pretty sweeping generalization.

For comparison, an estimated 2 to 8 percent of rape accusations are false.  If we go off the lower number, There are 1875 false rape accusations per year.  This means that there could be 118 false hate crimes and still fall within about the same area, up to 400+ if we use the larger estimate.  These numbers fall well within the range of the FBI's hate crime statistics, which have 1260 LGBT-related hate crimes

Rape statistics
false accusations



edited for better sources instead of guesstimations

First of all, I have already made my point clear that most LGBT people would be perfectly happy to be tolerated and live their lives in peace without being harassed. Second of all, you made this conclusion first, I was simply expanding on it, now you are disagreeing with it calling it a generalization when it was not a generalization, but an observation of activities within the LGBT community. Please resist the urge to be so PC that you contradict yourself.

The activist groups within this community are the ones with the Marxist ties pushing this nonsense and teaching LGBT people that this kind of behavior is a form of justice, using the protected status of these people to push their Marxist ideologies in order to create more division and weaken society as a whole so it can be more easily displaced with Socialism and Marxist based ideals. In reality these activists groups don't give a damn about their struggles and are simply inhabiting that community and many others like a parasite.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

Tennessee lesbian couple faked hate crime and destroyed own home with arson for insurance claim, jury rules
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tenn-lesbian-couple-faked-hate-crime-arson-home-court-article-1.2315755

This is an absolute shit thing to do, but not really specific to LGBT.  A black person could spray-paint the n-word on their house and do the same thing.  

At least they got found out and will get what they deserve, karma's a bitch

No, it is not specific to LGBT people, but unlike a black person, you can't really prove if some one is actually gay or not. This opens up abuse of the idea of protected classes on a whole other level. Literally anyone could make these claims for almost any reason. Try pretending to be black and see how that works out for you.

True, but it doesn't stop some that are not white from taking advantage of it.  Although it does seem to be more common among the LGBT community, I'd guess this is because of the recent media coverage giving the ideas to those who would do this type of thing.

http://fakehatecrimes.org/

I think part of the reason it may be more common in the LGBT community is because of the Marxist roots of the socialized gender identity theory where they believe gender identity is 100% a result of societal conditioning. This kind of rational can make it a lot easier for people to justify these things in their minds because it promotes a unique sense of entitlement that results from the idea that all of society has stolen your true identity from you. As they are a smaller group compared to any racial minority group, pretty much anyone is a justifiable target based on that ideology.

For tumblrites?  Possibly.  For the everyday LGBT person, they just want to live their lives.  There are bad apples in every population, but saying being LGBT gives you some messed up ideology is a pretty sweeping generalization.

For comparison, an estimated 2 to 8 percent of rape accusations are false.  If we go off the lower number, There are 1875 false rape accusations per year.  This means that there could be 118 false hate crimes and still fall within about the same area, up to 400+ if we use the larger estimate.  These numbers fall well within the range of the FBI's hate crime statistics, which have 1260 LGBT-related hate crimes

Rape statistics
false accusations



edited for better sources instead of guesstimations

First of all, I have already made my point clear that most LGBT people would be perfectly happy to be tolerated and live their lives in peace without being harassed. Second of all, you made this conclusion first, I was simply expanding on it, now you are disagreeing with it calling it a generalization when it was not a generalization, but an observation of activities within the LGBT community. Please resist the urge to be so PC that you contradict yourself.

The activist groups within this community are the ones with the Marxist ties pushing this nonsense and teaching LGBT people that this kind of behavior is a form of justice, using the protected status of these people to push their Marxist ideologies in order to create more division and weaken society as a whole so it can be more easily displaced with Socialism an Marxist based ideals. In reality these activists groups don't give a damn about their struggles and are simply inhabiting that community and many others like a parasite.

Just again, I have to say. I totally believe this is happening. It happened in feminism too. As a woman, I still think feminism did way more harm then good. These sideline people are trying to direct things, and create friction where there need not be friction, because they want things to dissipate. In feminism, it led to women taking jobs and being separated from their families, so that children would be brought up to be alone, versus family members. I know my parents were divorced, and my mom had to work 2 jobs to take care of us, and though I loved spending time with her when we could, I ended up being way more independent.

As for transgenders, the message should have been tolerance from the beginning not acceptance. But whoever orchestrated that, knew that. The fact that some people think those words mean the same thing, is no mistake, IMHO.

[Sourgummies]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/meet-canadas-only-transgender-federal-election-221926963.html
First trans person on a federal ballot

Like we did not see this one coming.

[foxbitcoin]

I think it's kind of similar, an identity crisis of a sort where they can't identify with their gender. Their brain can't identify with the physical gender they've been born with and it mixes them up.

[TECSHARE]

I think it's kind of similar, an identity crisis of a sort where they can't identify with their gender. Their brain can't identify with the physical gender they've been born with and it mixes them up.

There is evidence as well to support the idea that some of this psychological confusion is driven by hormonal imbalances. Some people may or may not wish to get treatment for this, but it is important for people to be aware there is some biological basis to gender identity, and there is possibly some way to balance this out to help alleviate these issues. I am not saying everyone who is transgender is just ill, because I don't believe this is true, but it is important for this information to be available so people can make their OWN choices without people politicizing biological processes needlessly.

[ridery99]

Everyone who wants more dicks or vaginas should get them by tax payers money. otherwise it's a human right crime.

[Sourgummies]

Everyone who wants more dicks or vaginas should get them by tax payers money. otherwise it's a human right crime.

Thats not something I would back. Where would you draw the line? I want the latest eye upgrade and I should be able to get it under your thinking. Or new knees.

[Spendulus]

I think it's kind of similar, an identity crisis of a sort where they can't identify with their gender. Their brain can't identify with the physical gender they've been born with and it mixes them up.

There's a word for that.  It's called "being confused."

[cmthompson22]

The gay population and the transgender ones are just a bunch of people who want attention in most cases. Of course, this is not all. I do know a few people who are gay, but they are not trying to push all of this stuff on us. Even with the gay marriage ruling they have no desire to go out and get married and have not done it yet. But the ones who are pushing their agenda are the ones who have all the money.

As you mentioned, Jenner is a good example. He has a ton of money and as soon as they started running out of story lines for their show (no one getting married, second and third babies not that exciting), he is all of a sudden transgender and has been for years. And now we need to go out and fight for this poor rich man’s right to dress up like a girl. I am so sick of hearing what a hero Jenner is. It is not heroic to dress up like a girl and get a little bit of plastic surgery. It must be so hard to get all of the good things about being a woman and miss out on all the actual day to day living of being a woman much less the poor women who have real challenges and struggles going on throughout the day.

This is all being pushed on use with those who have an agenda and who have all the money.  You do not hear about little Johnny down the block who used to be a girl. It is just Jenner. The amount of people who are transgender throughout all of history, by the definition of transgender not them just saying that they are in order to get attention and get you to notice them, is only a few cases. You can sit there and say that the Christians are crazy for saying “God does not make mistakes” but if you went through and tested these people, none of them would be transgender. They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

[Spendulus]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

[cooldgamer]

You can sit there and say that the Christians are crazy for saying “God does not make mistakes” but if you went through and tested these people, none of them would be transgender. They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender.

What exactly do you mean by "If you went through and tested these people"?  The definition of transgender is having gender dysphoria, so if you think you are one then by definition you are.

[TECSHARE]

You can sit there and say that the Christians are crazy for saying “God does not make mistakes” but if you went through and tested these people, none of them would be transgender. They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender.

What exactly do you mean by "If you went through and tested these people"?  The definition of transgender is having gender dysphoria, so if you think you are one then by definition you are.

This exemplifies the problem with the social based theory of gender identity. These activist groups tell everyone that gender identity is 100% a social construct, as a result, it leads to misinformation not just among LGBT peoples, but among every one else. This constant denial of biological processes behind transgender, gender dysphoria, and gender identity generally leaves everyone else misinformed and lead to believe that either these people are only just mentally ill, or they are confused and acting out.

Of course some times this is true, but this socialization theory completely denies the actual biological differences in people that can cause this to result, making it appear to be nothing more than a choice, causing an even greater divide as people reject the socialization theory thinking that it represents the whole argument, simply because these activist groups talk the loudest.

[cooldgamer]

You can sit there and say that the Christians are crazy for saying “God does not make mistakes” but if you went through and tested these people, none of them would be transgender. They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender.

What exactly do you mean by "If you went through and tested these people"?  The definition of transgender is having gender dysphoria, so if you think you are one then by definition you are.

This exemplifies the problem with the social based theory of gender identity. These activist groups tell everyone that gender identity is 100% a social construct, as a result, it leads to misinformation not just among LGBT peoples, but among every one else. This constant denial of biological processes behind transgender, gender dysphoria, and gender identity generally leaves everyone else misinformed and lead to believe that either these people are only just mentally ill, or they are confused and acting out.

Of course some times this is true, but this socialization theory completely denies the actual biological differences in people that can cause this to result, making it appear to be nothing more than a choice, causing an even greater divide as people reject the socialization theory thinking that it represents the whole argument, simply because these activist groups talk the loudest.

Not denying that there is a biological aspect to it (all those studies a few pages ago), but unless somebody is faking it (IE, they don't have dysphoria and just want attention) then they are.  My comment was more aimed at the second part of the quote, where he made a distinction between a mental health disorder causing dysphoria and being transgender.  Dysphoria (and whatever caused it biologically by extention) is the disorder, not the side effect.

[TECSHARE]

You can sit there and say that the Christians are crazy for saying “God does not make mistakes” but if you went through and tested these people, none of them would be transgender. They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender.

What exactly do you mean by "If you went through and tested these people"?  The definition of transgender is having gender dysphoria, so if you think you are one then by definition you are.

This exemplifies the problem with the social based theory of gender identity. These activist groups tell everyone that gender identity is 100% a social construct, as a result, it leads to misinformation not just among LGBT peoples, but among every one else. This constant denial of biological processes behind transgender, gender dysphoria, and gender identity generally leaves everyone else misinformed and lead to believe that either these people are only just mentally ill, or they are confused and acting out.

Of course some times this is true, but this socialization theory completely denies the actual biological differences in people that can cause this to result, making it appear to be nothing more than a choice, causing an even greater divide as people reject the socialization theory thinking that it represents the whole argument, simply because these activist groups talk the loudest.

Not denying that there is a biological aspect to it (all those studies a few pages ago), but unless somebody is faking it (IE, they don't have dysphoria and just want attention) then they are.  My comment was more aimed at the second part of the quote, where he made a distinction between a mental health disorder causing dysphoria and being transgender.  Dysphoria is the disorder, not the side effect.

My comment was more directed at cmthompson, not you, fyi.

[Sourgummies]

Have ran into a few people lately talking about their kids ages 1-5 years and a few of them will drop the "gender neutral" topic when talking about activities or clothes.
Whats really scaring me is the societal push that works on peoples psychological makeup to conform to the norm. The norm is now being pushed in a direction that welcomes all but ostracizes the ones that speak out.
This really is starting to look like a movement to control and it will be seen as neglect when you do not allow your child to try on both sexes in different facets of life.

[TECSHARE]

Have ran into a few people lately talking about their kids ages 1-5 years and a few of them will drop the "gender neutral" topic when talking about activities or clothes.
Whats really scaring me is the societal push that works on peoples psychological makeup to conform to the norm. The norm is now being pushed in a direction that welcomes all but ostracizes the ones that speak out.
This really is starting to look like a movement to control and it will be seen as neglect when you do not allow your child to try on both sexes in different facets of life.

Again this is 100% the result of the gender socialization theory. IMO it was designed to create maximum societal division and conflict, just like most societal theories based upon Marxist ideology.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

What are you talking about?

Have ran into a few people lately talking about their kids ages 1-5 years and a few of them will drop the "gender neutral" topic when talking about activities or clothes.
Whats really scaring me is the societal push that works on peoples psychological makeup to conform to the norm. The norm is now being pushed in a direction that welcomes all but ostracizes the ones that speak out.
This really is starting to look like a movement to control and it will be seen as neglect when you do not allow your child to try on both sexes in different facets of life.

Again this is 100% the result of the gender socialization theory. IMO it was designed to create maximum societal division and conflict, just like most societal theories based upon Marxist ideology.

I totally agree that this was designed on purpose. And I could see it coming to the point where people will be considered neglecting their child by "forcing" their (rightful) gender on them. Of course we've seen the studies that are the opposite, but people like this ignore studies like those.

[Spendulus]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

What are you talking about?

An equally fake, made up "problem" as the one "discussed" on this thread.  Only that I am making it up.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

What are you talking about?

An equally fake, made up "problem" as the one "discussed" on this thread.  Only that I am making it up.

Ignoring a problem is no way to solve it. But I imagine this will get worse before it gets better.

[TECSHARE]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

What are you talking about?

An equally fake, made up "problem" as the one "discussed" on this thread.  Only that I am making it up.

Unfortunately this is not just a figment of your imagination. People are claiming to be trans-black. This is the kind of identity hijacking you get when you take Marxist driven socialized identity theory to its natural conclusion. People need to start recognizing this for what it is. Marxism. Educate yourself about it, don't just pretend you know, because 9/10 people I talk to within the US have no clue what Marxist doctrines are. This ignorance is allowing that ideology to fester within the US and weaken the nation as well as society as a whole through division. Divide and conquer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKRj_h7vmMM

[Spendulus]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

What are you talking about?

An equally fake, made up "problem" as the one "discussed" on this thread.  Only that I am making it up.

Ignoring a problem is no way to solve it. But I imagine this will get worse before it gets better.

Yes, people will more and more be encouraged to discuss problems that are not problems, or which are ridiculously obscure, and to take them seriously - at the same time that the real problems get zero media coverage.  It's foolish to think this isn't a purposeful strategy by the progressive US elite, to hide the fact they are bleeding the country dry.  Let's just keep the people talking about (a, b, c, total nonsense) while we run the debt up from 20 to 25 Trillion.  Hey, then lets try for 30T!

The dumb shmucks will probably let us get away with it?

Now you were intoning, what, exactly about THE "VERY SERIOUS MATTER" OF SOME FUCKING CONFUSED WACKOS GETTING THEIR FEELINGS HURT?

Tell you what.  Next I'll "really seriously answer you about this important matter of how we need to be sensitive to a very small number of people with hurt feelings."  Then we'll seriously discuss Kardashinton.  Then we'll discuss the latest Naked Reality Survival Show.

You really want to go down that route?

Or would you like to discuss Flavors of Fake Facts for Fools?

[MakingMoneyHoney]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

What are you talking about?

An equally fake, made up "problem" as the one "discussed" on this thread.  Only that I am making it up.

Ignoring a problem is no way to solve it. But I imagine this will get worse before it gets better.

Yes, people will more and more be encouraged to discuss problems that are not problems, or which are ridiculously obscure, and to take them seriously - at the same time that the real problems get zero media coverage.  It's foolish to think this isn't a purposeful strategy by the progressive US elite, to hide the fact they are bleeding the country dry.  Let's just keep the people talking about (a, b, c, total nonsense) while we run the debt up from 20 to 25 Trillion.  Hey, then lets try for 30T!

The dumb shmucks will probably let us get away with it?

Now you were intoning, what, exactly about THE "VERY SERIOUS MATTER" OF SOME FUCKING CONFUSED WACKOS GETTING THEIR FEELINGS HURT?

Tell you what.  Next I'll "really seriously answer you about this important matter of how we need to be sensitive to a very small number of people with hurt feelings."  Then we'll seriously discuss Kardashinton.  Then we'll discuss the latest Naked Reality Survival Show.

You really want to go down that route?

Or would you like to discuss Flavors of Fake Facts for Fools?

You clearly didn't read what I said (because I said nothing about any of that), and have gone off on really stupid, idiotic, off topic tangents here.

[Spendulus]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

What are you talking about?

An equally fake, made up "problem" as the one "discussed" on this thread.  Only that I am making it up.

Ignoring a problem is no way to solve it. But I imagine this will get worse before it gets better.

Yes, people will more and more be encouraged to discuss problems that are not problems, or which are ridiculously obscure, and to take them seriously - at the same time that the real problems get zero media coverage.  It's foolish to think this isn't a purposeful strategy by the progressive US elite, to hide the fact they are bleeding the country dry.  Let's just keep the people talking about (a, b, c, total nonsense) while we run the debt up from 20 to 25 Trillion.  Hey, then lets try for 30T!

The dumb shmucks will probably let us get away with it?

Now you were intoning, what, exactly about THE "VERY SERIOUS MATTER" OF SOME FUCKING CONFUSED WACKOS GETTING THEIR FEELINGS HURT?

Tell you what.  Next I'll "really seriously answer you about this important matter of how we need to be sensitive to a very small number of people with hurt feelings."  Then we'll seriously discuss Kardashinton.  Then we'll discuss the latest Naked Reality Survival Show.

You really want to go down that route?

Or would you like to discuss Flavors of Fake Facts for Fools?

You clearly didn't read what I said (because I said nothing about any of that), and have gone off on really stupid, idiotic, off topic tangents here.

It's true that I am not disputing your comment -


Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

But I argue that the topic of the thread (and the societal issue which it echose) is stupid and idiotic...yet serves ulterior and malevolent purposes.

[cooldgamer]

They probably have some mental health disorder that is causing a problem, sure, but it is not because they are transgender. In Jenner’s case, it probably had something to do with being attached to that Kardashian clan for such a long time.

Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

More and more men are bitches?

Now I'm confused.

I thought it was just the transgender confused ones always bitching who were bitches.

And let's not forget about all the trans-black people too.

What are you talking about?

An equally fake, made up "problem" as the one "discussed" on this thread.  Only that I am making it up.

Ignoring a problem is no way to solve it. But I imagine this will get worse before it gets better.

Yes, people will more and more be encouraged to discuss problems that are not problems, or which are ridiculously obscure, and to take them seriously - at the same time that the real problems get zero media coverage.  It's foolish to think this isn't a purposeful strategy by the progressive US elite, to hide the fact they are bleeding the country dry.  Let's just keep the people talking about (a, b, c, total nonsense) while we run the debt up from 20 to 25 Trillion.  Hey, then lets try for 30T!

The dumb shmucks will probably let us get away with it?

Now you were intoning, what, exactly about THE "VERY SERIOUS MATTER" OF SOME FUCKING CONFUSED WACKOS GETTING THEIR FEELINGS HURT?

Tell you what.  Next I'll "really seriously answer you about this important matter of how we need to be sensitive to a very small number of people with hurt feelings."  Then we'll seriously discuss Kardashinton.  Then we'll discuss the latest Naked Reality Survival Show.

You really want to go down that route?

Or would you like to discuss Flavors of Fake Facts for Fools?

You clearly didn't read what I said (because I said nothing about any of that), and have gone off on really stupid, idiotic, off topic tangents here.

It's true that I am not disputing your comment -


Don't forget all the feminization of men due to chemicals, GMOs etc.

But I argue that the topic of the thread (and the societal issue which it echose) is stupid and idiotic...yet serves ulterior and malevolent purposes.

Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these. 

[Spendulus]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these. 

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

[TECSHARE]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these.  

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

The activist groups infiltrated with Marxist socialized identity theory would have you believe there is no biological basis for these issues whatsoever. They would be wrong, there is plenty of evidence to support diagnoses such as hormonal imbalances that can cause these symptoms. Marxists love playing both sides against the middle so everyone is fighting with everyone else, and society is that much weaker and susceptible to socialism as a result. The same identity hijacking games are played with race, gender, age, religion, etc anything you can think of.

[cooldgamer]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these. 

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

150 or so studies would like to differ with your conclusion that it's just confusion

[Spendulus]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these.  

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

The activist groups infiltrated with Marxist socialized identity theory would have you believe there is no biological basis for these issues whatsoever. They would be wrong, there is plenty of evidence to support diagnoses such as hormonal imbalances that can cause these symptoms. Marxists love playing both sides against the middle so everyone is fighting with everyone else, and society is that much weaker and susceptible to socialism as a result. The same identity hijacking games are played with race, gender, age, religion, etc anything you can think of.

I think you've pretty much nailed this one.  Although it's important to emphasize that all of those propagating these myths are not culpable - the essence of propaganda is naive propagators.

[TECSHARE]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these.  

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

The activist groups infiltrated with Marxist socialized identity theory would have you believe there is no biological basis for these issues whatsoever. They would be wrong, there is plenty of evidence to support diagnoses such as hormonal imbalances that can cause these symptoms. Marxists love playing both sides against the middle so everyone is fighting with everyone else, and society is that much weaker and susceptible to socialism as a result. The same identity hijacking games are played with race, gender, age, religion, etc anything you can think of.

I think you've pretty much nailed this one.  Although it's important to emphasize that all of those propagating these myths are not culpable - the essence of propaganda is naive propagators.

Marx called them "useful idiots".

[Spendulus]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these.  

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

The activist groups infiltrated with Marxist socialized identity theory would have you believe there is no biological basis for these issues whatsoever. They would be wrong, there is plenty of evidence to support diagnoses such as hormonal imbalances that can cause these symptoms. Marxists love playing both sides against the middle so everyone is fighting with everyone else, and society is that much weaker and susceptible to socialism as a result. The same identity hijacking games are played with race, gender, age, religion, etc anything you can think of.

I think you've pretty much nailed this one.  Although it's important to emphasize that all of those propagating these myths are not culpable - the essence of propaganda is naive propagators.

Marx called them "useful idiots".

Okay, so just to finish off the barrel of propaganda under the subheading "Transgender Discussion."

What if guys were male physically, female and Lesbian psychically.  And women were women physically, but men psychically and gay.   

So that makes 98% of us "normal. 

But, do you see the Depth of the Problem?  We should all talk about it and be sure we are sensitive to people like me.  Because people can hurt.  And hurt is bad.  Let's all sit in a circle and hold hands and sing and talk about our warm happy fuzzy basket of feelings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJMtn6IJeE

[Sourgummies]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these. 

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

You could literally go through every post in here with the same mindset and attempt to direct people in a set direction and more towards the field that you feel needs more discussion.  The problem with that is people will get their backs up more than come to the reasoning you would like the public to grasp.
In doing so one comes off more like a forum gestapo than some one that is attempting to show people the light.
Stating that this discussion is coming to a close is not for any one person to decide,maybe a mod.
That said medical is also mental,so it does extend to the medical field,moot point but thought I would touch on it.

So to address the issue you are talking about I agree with you to a extent about other topics not getting the needed attention.
If we can show holes in one subject we can eventually open more doors for people that are still watching the news and taking it as gospel.
The more doors we can open the more we can get this idea out and about.

Really the reason I started this subject to begin with was I was really confused by it.  Was hoping a open dialogue that did not go to far down the rabbit hole could help some of us that feel the same way I do.  This is not my attempt to push some propaganda on the forum,you will find I like going down the rabbit hole but at the same time quite new to thinking outside the box.  Also scared to become a little to much like Alex Jones in doing so and seek a balance.

[Spendulus]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these. 

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

You could literally go through every post in here with the same mindset and attempt to direct people in a set direction and more towards the field that you feel needs more discussion.  The problem with that is people will get their backs up more than come to the reasoning you would like the public to grasp.
In doing so one comes off more like a forum gestapo than some one that is attempting to show people the light.
Stating that this discussion is coming to a close is not for any one person to decide,maybe a mod.
That said medical is also mental,so it does extend to the medical field,moot point but thought I would touch on it.

So to address the issue you are talking about I agree with you to a extent about other topics not getting the needed attention.
If we can show holes in one subject we can eventually open more doors for people that are still watching the news and taking it as gospel.
The more doors we can open the more we can get this idea out and about.

Really the reason I started this subject to begin with was I was really confused by it.  Was hoping a open dialogue that did not go to far down the rabbit hole could help some of us that feel the same way I do.  This is not my attempt to push some propaganda on the forum,you will find I like going down the rabbit hole but at the same time quite new to thinking outside the box.  Also scared to become a little to much like Alex Jones in doing so and seek a balance.

Having worked in mental hospitals and seen some suicides, delt with people who continually for the rest of their life hallucinating from LSD overdose, depressives who had zero purpose, axe murderers who became babies after they were sedated, guys that believed they were Napoleon, and seen a great deal of people with real problems, please forgive me if I laugh a the outrageous suggestion that we need some sensitivity in our relations with out gender confused brethren.

[Sourgummies]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these. 

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

You could literally go through every post in here with the same mindset and attempt to direct people in a set direction and more towards the field that you feel needs more discussion.  The problem with that is people will get their backs up more than come to the reasoning you would like the public to grasp.
In doing so one comes off more like a forum gestapo than some one that is attempting to show people the light.
Stating that this discussion is coming to a close is not for any one person to decide,maybe a mod.
That said medical is also mental,so it does extend to the medical field,moot point but thought I would touch on it.

So to address the issue you are talking about I agree with you to a extent about other topics not getting the needed attention.
If we can show holes in one subject we can eventually open more doors for people that are still watching the news and taking it as gospel.
The more doors we can open the more we can get this idea out and about.

Really the reason I started this subject to begin with was I was really confused by it.  Was hoping a open dialogue that did not go to far down the rabbit hole could help some of us that feel the same way I do.  This is not my attempt to push some propaganda on the forum,you will find I like going down the rabbit hole but at the same time quite new to thinking outside the box.  Also scared to become a little to much like Alex Jones in doing so and seek a balance.

Having worked in mental hospitals and seen some suicides, delt with people who continually for the rest of their life hallucinating from LSD overdose, depressives who had zero purpose, axe murderers who became babies after they were sedated, guys that believed they were Napoleon, and seen a great deal of people with real problems, please forgive me if I laugh a the outrageous suggestion that we need some sensitivity in our relations with out gender confused brethren.

Fair enough but this has little to do with what I wrote to you. This is kind of why I responded to your last post, it felt definitive and a tad offtopic. This reply is using a unverifable work experience to make a point.  Its like some one stating they have drowned and unless you have drowned you have no expertise on the topic.
Think most of us are in agreement on the hype around the subject.

[cooldgamer]

...
Didn't know that discussing a medical problem and the politics that surround it serves ulterior and maleviolent purposes.  Nobody ever said we can't discuss the issues you mentioned, doesn't bring any less legitimacy to these. 

Um, what medical problem?

Hasn't transgender defined itself as a confusion within the brain for which no actual, physical medical problem exists?

Regardless, putting the spotlight, the media attention, the percentage of the news, on a very small and innocuous problem, does in fact divert attention from major issues.  Legitimacy isn't the issue.  The plight of one lonely Sub Saharan farmer whose cow has been recently sick should, of course, be of legitimate importance and receive international attention.

You could literally go through every post in here with the same mindset and attempt to direct people in a set direction and more towards the field that you feel needs more discussion.  The problem with that is people will get their backs up more than come to the reasoning you would like the public to grasp.
In doing so one comes off more like a forum gestapo than some one that is attempting to show people the light.
Stating that this discussion is coming to a close is not for any one person to decide,maybe a mod.
That said medical is also mental,so it does extend to the medical field,moot point but thought I would touch on it.

So to address the issue you are talking about I agree with you to a extent about other topics not getting the needed attention.
If we can show holes in one subject we can eventually open more doors for people that are still watching the news and taking it as gospel.
The more doors we can open the more we can get this idea out and about.

Really the reason I started this subject to begin with was I was really confused by it.  Was hoping a open dialogue that did not go to far down the rabbit hole could help some of us that feel the same way I do.  This is not my attempt to push some propaganda on the forum,you will find I like going down the rabbit hole but at the same time quite new to thinking outside the box.  Also scared to become a little to much like Alex Jones in doing so and seek a balance.

Having worked in mental hospitals and seen some suicides, delt with people who continually for the rest of their life hallucinating from LSD overdose, depressives who had zero purpose, axe murderers who became babies after they were sedated, guys that believed they were Napoleon, and seen a great deal of people with real problems, please forgive me if I laugh a the outrageous suggestion that we need some sensitivity in our relations with out gender confused brethren.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion

[Spendulus]

....
Think most of us are in agreement on the hype around the subject.

Okay.

[Spendulus]

.......This reply is using a unverifable work experience to make a point.  Its like some one stating they have drowned and unless you have drowned you have no expertise on the topic.

This is an interesting reply because the verification is...

"I say so!"

It is on a topic in which the truth of an allegation of "transgenderism" is an individual saying....

"I say so!"

Somehow that's interesting....

lol...

[Sourgummies]

I have to admit that is funny.

[Zz]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Look who's mentally ill and need treatment here. Here's your free mirror:


I hope medicines will work for you.

[Spendulus]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Look who's mentally ill and need treatment here. Here's your free mirror:


I hope medicines will work for you.

Not sure why saddamphbuh hasn't made a good analogy.

Some people do believe they are Napoleon.  But they are crazy, not right.

At the least one would have to split the group of "transgenders" into (A) crazy (B) confused (C) right "in their own mind"

[cooldgamer]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Look who's mentally ill and need treatment here. Here's your free mirror:


I hope medicines will work for you.

Not sure why saddamphbuh hasn't made a good analogy.

Some people do believe they are Napoleon.  But they are crazy, not right.

That's not a valid analogy at all.  You don't have a 50% chance of being Napoleon before you are born, and its not possible for a brain to develop and make you half Napoleon based on hormones getting screwed up. 

[Spendulus]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Look who's mentally ill and need treatment here. Here's your free mirror:


I hope medicines will work for you.

Not sure why saddamphbuh hasn't made a good analogy.

Some people do believe they are Napoleon.  But they are crazy, not right.

That's not a valid analogy at all.  You don't have a 50% chance of being Napoleon before you are born, and its not possible for a brain to develop and make you half Napoleon based on hormones getting screwed up.  

oh, hormones.  But now you are into easily measured physical quantities that collaborate mental feelings and subjective viewports.

You are no longer in the realm of "I believe, therefore IT IS."

I do wonder though what saddam would say concerning an issue of hormone "evidence."

[bryant.coleman]

At the least one would have to split the group of "transgenders" into (A) crazy (B) confused (C) right "in their own mind"

In my opinion, there should be one more category: "Forced transgenders"

An example is here:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/04/california-family-discusses-4-year-old-transgender-child/

In this category, the parents (usually the LGBT types) force their normal children to under go gender re-alignment surgery and become trans-sexuals.

[cooldgamer]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Look who's mentally ill and need treatment here. Here's your free mirror:


I hope medicines will work for you.

Not sure why saddamphbuh hasn't made a good analogy.

Some people do believe they are Napoleon.  But they are crazy, not right.

That's not a valid analogy at all.  You don't have a 50% chance of being Napoleon before you are born, and its not possible for a brain to develop and make you half Napoleon based on hormones getting screwed up.  

oh, hormones.  But now you are into easily measured physical quantities that collaborate mental feelings and subjective viewports.

You are no longer in the realm of "I believe, therefore IT IS."

Well I don't particularly think somebody would want to go through all that trouble for no reason.  My stance for this thread has stayed the same at there is some sort of a cause, and trans people should be treated with respect like anybody else.  If nothing else they should feel free to live without worrying about their own safety. 

Please feel free to point out any post where I said something contradicting there being a physical cause.  Pangender one doesn't count, I was just grabbing a definition from the tumblr book of genders

[Spendulus]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Look who's mentally ill and need treatment here. Here's your free mirror:


I hope medicines will work for you.

Not sure why saddamphbuh hasn't made a good analogy.

Some people do believe they are Napoleon.  But they are crazy, not right.

That's not a valid analogy at all.  You don't have a 50% chance of being Napoleon before you are born, and its not possible for a brain to develop and make you half Napoleon based on hormones getting screwed up.  

oh, hormones.  But now you are into easily measured physical quantities that collaborate mental feelings and subjective viewports.

You are no longer in the realm of "I believe, therefore IT IS."

Well I don't particularly think somebody would want to go through all that trouble for no reason.  My stance for this thread has stayed the same at there is some sort of a cause, and trans people should be treated with respect like anybody else.  If nothing else they should feel free to live without worrying about their own safety. 

Please feel free to point out any post where I said something contradicting there being a physical cause.  Pangender one doesn't count, I was just grabbing a definition from the tumblr book of genders

You mean, unless they were crazy or confused.

Which is the point I was making, wasn't it?

[cooldgamer]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Look who's mentally ill and need treatment here. Here's your free mirror:


I hope medicines will work for you.

Not sure why saddamphbuh hasn't made a good analogy.

Some people do believe they are Napoleon.  But they are crazy, not right.

That's not a valid analogy at all.  You don't have a 50% chance of being Napoleon before you are born, and its not possible for a brain to develop and make you half Napoleon based on hormones getting screwed up.  

oh, hormones.  But now you are into easily measured physical quantities that collaborate mental feelings and subjective viewports.

You are no longer in the realm of "I believe, therefore IT IS."

Well I don't particularly think somebody would want to go through all that trouble for no reason. My stance for this thread has stayed the same at there is some sort of a cause, and trans people should be treated with respect like anybody else.  If nothing else they should feel free to live without worrying about their own safety.  

Please feel free to point out any post where I said something contradicting there being a physical cause.  Pangender one doesn't count, I was just grabbing a definition from the tumblr book of genders

You mean, unless they were crazy or confused.

Which is the point I was making, wasn't it?

Aren't we all a bit crazy?  Feel free to ignore the studies showing there is a biological basis all you want, but it's there nonetheless.

Even if we toss that out the window, what difference does it make?  Is it that much of an effort to make not to be a total asshole to people that have enough on their plates?  Does it take that much effort to not confront somebody to tell them what you think about their lifestyle?  If everybody could do that we'd be just fine.  There are some people that will just never be happy, but the vast majority would be totally cool with that.  

It's your right to be an asshole if you really want, but at the end of the day why bother? 

[Spendulus]

whoever is born a man is a man, these folks are mentally ill and need treatment, if they told you they were ducks or aliens from outer space trapped in human beings' bodies would you believe them

Look who's mentally ill and need treatment here. Here's your free mirror:


I hope medicines will work for you.

Not sure why saddamphbuh hasn't made a good analogy.

Some people do believe they are Napoleon.  But they are crazy, not right.

That's not a valid analogy at all.  You don't have a 50% chance of being Napoleon before you are born, and its not possible for a brain to develop and make you half Napoleon based on hormones getting screwed up.  

oh, hormones.  But now you are into easily measured physical quantities that collaborate mental feelings and subjective viewports.

You are no longer in the realm of "I believe, therefore IT IS."

Well I don't particularly think somebody would want to go through all that trouble for no reason. My stance for this thread has stayed the same at there is some sort of a cause, and trans people should be treated with respect like anybody else.  If nothing else they should feel free to live without worrying about their own safety.  

Please feel free to point out any post where I said something contradicting there being a physical cause.  Pangender one doesn't count, I was just grabbing a definition from the tumblr book of genders

You mean, unless they were crazy or confused.

Which is the point I was making, wasn't it?

Aren't we all a bit crazy?  Feel free to ignore the studies showing there is a biological basis all you want, but it's there nonetheless.

Even if we toss that out the window, what difference does it make?  Is it that much of an effort to make not to be a total asshole to people that have enough on their plates?  Does it take that much effort to not confront somebody to tell them what you think about their lifestyle?  If everybody could do that we'd be just fine.  There are some people that will just never be happy, but the vast majority would be totally cool with that.  

It's your right to be an asshole if you really want, but at the end of the day why bother? 

Because you're just plain wrong.

No, we are not all a "bit crazy."  Clearly you haven't been around crazy.

Here's a bit of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaFqw8XnpA

And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

[cooldgamer]

Because you're just plain wrong.

No, we are not all a "bit crazy."  Clearly you haven't been around crazy.

Here's a bit of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaFqw8XnpA

And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

I realize there are legitimately crazy people, but somebody that's trans shouldn't fall under the definition of crazy if that's the one you want to go by.  These people are fully able to lead fulfilling lives, just happen to have some gender issues to be addressed and fixed one way or another.  Can't even make a tongue-in-cheek comment without getting jumped on

I never tried to suppress your freedom of speech, I just pointed out that you're being an asshole by trying to tell people how to live their lives.  You're not helping anybody by telling somebody that's got dysphoria that they are the gender they don't think they should be, somebody that far down the path to accept it isn't going to switch around based on a stranger.

[Spendulus]

Because you're just plain wrong.

No, we are not all a "bit crazy."  Clearly you haven't been around crazy.

Here's a bit of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaFqw8XnpA

And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

I realize there are legitimately crazy people, but somebody that's trans shouldn't fall under the definition of crazy if that's the one you want to go by.  These people are fully able to lead fulfilling lives, just happen to have some gender issues to be addressed and fixed one way or another.  Can't even make a tongue-in-cheek comment without getting jumped on

I never tried to suppress your freedom of speech, I just pointed out that you're being an asshole by trying to tell people how to live their lives....

If you look at what I actually said...


And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

You'll see that it includes your comments, as well as opposing points of view.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to help people who are confused and troubled.

And once you put that under a government services umbrella, they gonna tell you what to say.

[cooldgamer]

Because you're just plain wrong.

No, we are not all a "bit crazy."  Clearly you haven't been around crazy.

Here's a bit of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaFqw8XnpA

And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

I realize there are legitimately crazy people, but somebody that's trans shouldn't fall under the definition of crazy if that's the one you want to go by.  These people are fully able to lead fulfilling lives, just happen to have some gender issues to be addressed and fixed one way or another.  Can't even make a tongue-in-cheek comment without getting jumped on

I never tried to suppress your freedom of speech, I just pointed out that you're being an asshole by trying to tell people how to live their lives....

If you look at what I actually said...


And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

You'll see that it includes your comments, as well as opposing points of view.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to help people who are confused and troubled.

And once you put that under a government services umbrella, they gonna tell you what to say.

Fair enough.  Short of actual harassment (which we already have laws for) there's no reason for the government to get involved in it.  I think we can all agree on that part.  I'm just saying your idea of 'helping' people really isn't helping anybody, just making people feel shitty. 

[TheButterZone]

I would "fall" into the spring of a drowned girl or any use any other magical transformation device.

[Spendulus]

Because you're just plain wrong.

No, we are not all a "bit crazy."  Clearly you haven't been around crazy.

Here's a bit of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaFqw8XnpA

And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

I realize there are legitimately crazy people, but somebody that's trans shouldn't fall under the definition of crazy if that's the one you want to go by.  These people are fully able to lead fulfilling lives, just happen to have some gender issues to be addressed and fixed one way or another.  Can't even make a tongue-in-cheek comment without getting jumped on

I never tried to suppress your freedom of speech, I just pointed out that you're being an asshole by trying to tell people how to live their lives....

If you look at what I actually said...


And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

You'll see that it includes your comments, as well as opposing points of view.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to help people who are confused and troubled.

And once you put that under a government services umbrella, they gonna tell you what to say.

Fair enough.  Short of actual harassment (which we already have laws for) there's no reason for the government to get involved in it.  I think we can all agree on that part.  I'm just saying your idea of 'helping' people really isn't helping anybody, just making people feel shitty. 

I really don't care.  Recently had a conversation with a friend who's teen aged son had taken up heroin.  This little conversation had to do with "tough love."  Sometimes people need to feel shitty.  You are not here to create and maintain a warm and happy basket of feelings.  If you want to discuss problematic issues, be prepared to face the problems.

"Men that think they are women" in India/Pakistan (can't recall the term in that culture), as I recall, have about a 25% HIV rate.

[cooldgamer]

Because you're just plain wrong.

No, we are not all a "bit crazy."  Clearly you haven't been around crazy.

Here's a bit of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaFqw8XnpA

And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

I realize there are legitimately crazy people, but somebody that's trans shouldn't fall under the definition of crazy if that's the one you want to go by.  These people are fully able to lead fulfilling lives, just happen to have some gender issues to be addressed and fixed one way or another.  Can't even make a tongue-in-cheek comment without getting jumped on

I never tried to suppress your freedom of speech, I just pointed out that you're being an asshole by trying to tell people how to live their lives....

If you look at what I actually said...


And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

You'll see that it includes your comments, as well as opposing points of view.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to help people who are confused and troubled.

And once you put that under a government services umbrella, they gonna tell you what to say.

Fair enough.  Short of actual harassment (which we already have laws for) there's no reason for the government to get involved in it.  I think we can all agree on that part.  I'm just saying your idea of 'helping' people really isn't helping anybody, just making people feel shitty.  

I really don't care.  Recently had a conversation with a friend who's teen aged son had taken up heroin.  This little conversation had to do with "tough love."  Sometimes people need to feel shitty.  You are not here to create and maintain a warm and happy basket of feelings.  If you want to discuss problematic issues, be prepared to face the problems.

"Men that think they are women" in India/Pakistan (can't recall the term in that culture), as I recall, have about a 25% HIV rate.

Then HIV prevention needs to be focused on.  It's not going to do anything to tell somebody that their lifestyle could be harmful and they should just go back.  As the studies I've referenced numerous times show, it's not exactly a choice.  It's not going to be the first, or the last time these people have heard somebody disagree with how they live.  Whatever the intentions, it's just not going to work.  Harm reduction is the way to go.  


Edit: Here's an interesting summary of studies breaking down some reasons the HIV rate is so high among them: http://www.apa.org/pi/aids/programs/hope/training/hiv-transgender.pdf

tl;dr:

-High sex work rate due to workplace discrimination, validation as the sex of their choosing, and/or money for related medical procedures

-High substance abuse rate, with 17% of all trans people reporting sharing needles

-Risky sexual behavior with both primary partner and as sex worker (when applicable), partially due to hormones

-Hormone injection, often sharing needles

[Spendulus]

Because you're just plain wrong.

No, we are not all a "bit crazy."  Clearly you haven't been around crazy.

Here's a bit of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaFqw8XnpA

And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

I realize there are legitimately crazy people, but somebody that's trans shouldn't fall under the definition of crazy if that's the one you want to go by.  These people are fully able to lead fulfilling lives, just happen to have some gender issues to be addressed and fixed one way or another.  Can't even make a tongue-in-cheek comment without getting jumped on

I never tried to suppress your freedom of speech, I just pointed out that you're being an asshole by trying to tell people how to live their lives....

If you look at what I actually said...


And as for your comment bolded above, there's been a lot of good done in the world because one person told another he was headed down a bad path.  Does not mean they were always right, but suppressing that freedom of speech is not a way to optimize outcomes.  No need to get preachy, by the way.

You'll see that it includes your comments, as well as opposing points of view.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to help people who are confused and troubled.

And once you put that under a government services umbrella, they gonna tell you what to say.

Fair enough.  Short of actual harassment (which we already have laws for) there's no reason for the government to get involved in it.  I think we can all agree on that part.  I'm just saying your idea of 'helping' people really isn't helping anybody, just making people feel shitty.  

I really don't care.  Recently had a conversation with a friend who's teen aged son had taken up heroin.  This little conversation had to do with "tough love."  Sometimes people need to feel shitty.  You are not here to create and maintain a warm and happy basket of feelings.  If you want to discuss problematic issues, be prepared to face the problems.

"Men that think they are women" in India/Pakistan (can't recall the term in that culture), as I recall, have about a 25% HIV rate.

Then HIV prevention needs to be focused on.  It's not going to do anything to tell somebody that their lifestyle could be harmful and they should just go back.  As the studies I've referenced numerous times show, it's not exactly a choice.  It's not going to be the first, or the last time these people have heard somebody disagree with how they live.  Whatever the intentions, it's just not going to work.  Harm reduction is the way to go.  


Edit: Here's an interesting summary of studies breaking down some reasons the HIV rate is so high among them: http://www.apa.org/pi/aids/programs/hope/training/hiv-transgender.pdf

tl;dr:

-High sex work rate due to workplace discrimination, validation as the sex of their choosing, and/or money for related medical procedures

-High substance abuse rate, with 17% of all trans people reporting sharing needles

-Risky sexual behavior with both primary partner and as sex worker (when applicable), partially due to hormones

-Hormone injection, often sharing needles

You mean they're all fucked up?