[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation

[titeuf_87]

This is a great news and I am happy that such a foundation exists with as purpose to help bitcoin grow.

From the letter page:

So, what will we be doing in 2013 with the Bitcoin Foundation? We’ve set our eyes on accomplishing the following things:
-Begin to pay Gavin’s salary and get him some budget for the core development team
-Run a payments-oriented Silicon Valley Bitcoin Conference in the spring (Bitcoin 2013)
-Publish a set of best practices for businesses transacting in Bitcoin, covering topics from accounting to physical and digital security
-Create an opt-in certification process for Bitcoin businesses

Those are great goals which I'm more than happy to help fund.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if Gavin's salary will be paid in bitcoins

And for the doomsayers: the foundation does not suddenly have control over all your bitcoins or bitcoin in general. Bitcoin is, and will stay, an open source project. Every single change is publicly viewable and a lot of people do look at them (I do every now and then). If something were to change bitcoin so that it is not bitcoin anymore, then a fork would be quickly created.

Besides, as time progresses, we will see more and more alternative clients too. So it will not simply be a matter of changing the main client, but also convincing the developers of every other client too.

[Atlas]

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

No, you sell. We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

You are a bloody madman. **Nobody** is centralizing Bitcoin any more through creating a foundation than it was centralized since today. Nothing changed.

If we don't like the code, we can start our own foundation, and condemn the old foundation.

I would prefer various competing foundations including ones that condemn all of them. We don't need universal standards. We just need natural community consensus. People value their money. All else will come from that naturally, without authority.

[vess]

We are trying to go bank-account-less and do all incoming and outgoing payments with BTC, including payroll. Dogfooding Bitcoin as currency-of-a-corporation is one of my favorite things about the Foundation, actually.

[adamstgBit]

We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

Atlas i hear what your saying but your going over board...

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

its not that i don't like it, its that i know their are a few groups doing the EXACT same thing.
why should i favor this group?

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.

American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.

All I know is every banking institution and technology in the world has been conquered through proxies, deceit and corruption. Every central bank in the world has been sold out to private individuals regardless of good intentions and rule of law.

You simply cannot corrupt and deceit source code, as long as there are enough eyes looking at it.
It is close to impossible.

The human factor is always the weakest factor. The source code factor - that's another story.

If humans interpret the Bitcoin source code standardization of The Bitcoin Foundation as legitimate and as the sole authority, the Bitcoin source code can change with no question as long as this authority makes the changes. The process will turn into a cult of personality. Bitcoin will rest in the hands of a single organization.

Obviously, you have no idea how programming works.
Thus, you have no ducking idea what you are talking about.

Talking to you is as useful & constructive, as talking to a duck.

I'm actually starting to wonder if you are really a nutjob or perhaps you get paid to do this.

[acoindr]

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

It wouldn't only be that.

I've recommended and endorsed Bitcoin literally over several days in different Internet forums/communities, hopefully strengthening my position(s) with intellectual reasoning and tact. I would have to undo that, just as proactively, if I thought Bitcoin was headed in the wrong direction.

[Atlas]

Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.

American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.

All I know is every banking institution and technology in the world has been conquered through proxies, deceit and corruption. Every central bank in the world has been sold out to private individuals regardless of good intentions and rule of law.

You simply cannot corrupt and deceit source code, as long as there are enough eyes looking at it.
It is close to impossible.

The human factor is always the weakest factor. The source code factor - that's another story.

If humans interpret the Bitcoin source code standardization of The Bitcoin Foundation as legitimate and as the sole authority, the Bitcoin source code can change with no question as long as this authority makes the changes. The process will turn into a cult of personality. Bitcoin will rest in the hands of a single organization.

Obviously, you have no idea how programming works.
Thus, you have no ducking idea what you are talking about.

Talking to you is as useful & constructive, as talking to a duck.

I'm actually starting to wonder if you are actually a madman or perhaps you get paid to do this.

You simply fail to understand me. Source code review only works if people can easily denounce the changes without being called a troll and told to leave. If a cult around the Bitcoin Foundation forms under its implied authority and ties to Congress, it could make contesting changes obsolete.

The illusion of choice should remain but the ability may not.

[jgarzik]

We are trying to go bank-account-less and do all incoming and outgoing payments with BTC, including payroll. Dogfooding Bitcoin as currency-of-a-corporation is one of my favorite things about the Foundation, actually.

Wow!  +100 there

You gotta walk the walk.

[kiba]

Maybe it should be renamed the Global Bitcoiner Association.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

Atlas i hear what your saying but your going over board...

He's not going overboard. He is a one hell of a crazy nutjob.

[adamstgBit]

Atlas this is happening now, with or without the foundation, makes no difference
anyone can go and change the bitcoin soruce code.
and guess who looks over the changes...
Now that they just put a cute label on their team, and you go nuts...  

you should be happy now that they are no longer an underground mysterious group of people.

[Atlas]

We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

Atlas i hear what your saying but your going over board...

He's not going overboard. He is a one hell of a crazy nutjob.

Everyone who went against The Federal Reserve Act was too.

[acoindr]

What most of the people here are missing is that the foundation got founded, because Bitcoin is going mainstream.

It is not possible to go mainstream without any official body that will represent us, comercially & legally. Ever.
The real world is not decentralized as Bitcoin network is, so we need some kind of gateway between both worlds.

This is the basic and real reason the foundation was created

First, it's not necessary to use large font and take up page space to make a statement. Second, is your statement opinion or likely fact, and why?

[bracek]

who ever doesn't like this new development with foundation can vote with their bitcoin,
just sell,
it is that easy

No, you sell. We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

why should I sell ?
no complaints here

and so many "real moneys" have vanished through history, ended up as experiments,
each of us is living our own experiment

I think this is good, it solves part of the "tangibility" and backing issue that people have against bitcoin

[Atlas]

We will be fighting to keep the network as it is.

This is not an experiment. This is not a toy. This is real money, real value and a new frontier in liberty. We will not be losing it to a central authority.

Atlas i hear what your saying but your going over board...

He's not going overboard. He is a one hell of a crazy nutjob.

Everyone who went against The Federal Reserve Act was too.

I'm amazed that you think this is similar in any way, shape, or form. It again leads me to believe you have no idea how Bitcoin works.

I understand how people are convinced that transparency can hold things accountable but it won't if The Bitcoin Foundation seeks more power through Congress and cultural manipulation. IF it labels itself as the standards body, it may become hard to challenge. People may accept it and its software with little question. This is a reasonable fear.

WHOEVER CONTROLS THE MAJOR CODE RELEASES, CONTROLS BITCOIN.

It doesn't matter if a few miners can fork if none of the other releases have clout. It doesn't matter if other releases are suppressed by legal means.

[Atlas]

It doesn't matter if a few miners can fork if none of the other releases have clout.

Bullshit. Do you think we Bitcoiners are mindless masses chasing fiat profits?

Maybe not now but maybe in the future as this ecosystem grows and companies and other powers shape the culture.

Every founding country trust its original people.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Unless Gavin accepts the "long-arm of government" through the "official" voice of The Bitcoin Foundation. Before you know it, you'll see government backdoors in the protocol and people would be swayed into accepting it with little question because "Standards".

If anything suspicious happens, I will be the first to abandon the "official" client then.
For now, such scenario seems highly improbable.

Let me make explain it in other words:

One does not simply pass The Federal Reserve Act and conquer a whole nation through private central banking. It happened in America, the most decentralized nation of them all with a clear constitution and rules of engagement. It can happen here in the Bitcoin realm.

There are people out there who are threatened by Bitcoin. They will try to manipulate culture and have people sway to their whim. This organization is perfect for that.

American politics != Bitcoin version adoption.

Perhaps you don't understand that difference between democracy in open-source development and democracy in representative government. They're very different things.

All I know is every banking institution and technology in the world has been conquered through proxies, deceit and corruption. Every central bank in the world has been sold out to private individuals regardless of good intentions and rule of law.

You simply cannot corrupt and deceit source code, as long as there are enough eyes looking at it.
It is close to impossible.

The human factor is always the weakest factor. The source code factor - that's another story.

If humans interpret the Bitcoin source code standardization of The Bitcoin Foundation as legitimate and as the sole authority, the Bitcoin source code can change with no question as long as this authority makes the changes. The process will turn into a cult of personality. Bitcoin will rest in the hands of a single organization.

Obviously, you have no idea how programming works.
Thus, you have no ducking idea what you are talking about.

Talking to you is as useful & constructive, as talking to a duck.

I'm actually starting to wonder if you are actually a madman or perhaps you get paid to do this.

You simply fail to understand me. Source code review only works if people can easily denounce the changes without being called a troll and told to leave. If a cult around the Bitcoin Foundation forms under its implied authority and ties to Congress, it could make contesting changes obsolete.

The illusion of choice should remain but the ability may not.

Then You have no idea how internet works.

On the internet, anybody can denounce everybody, if they have proof. And it is trivial to get proof on the Internet as the necessary wisdom is everywhere accessible within seconds.

Also, programmers don't need lawyers, specialists & other expert witnesses to determine if somebody's proof is valid or not.
If somebody marks 10 lines of code, and proves that these lines contains a trojan, it is trivial to asses if he is telling the truth.

Also, you fail to see that just one evil move of the Gavin's foundation would condemn it forever, and nobody would trust it (or the people behind it) ever again.
Is that worth the risk ? Highly doubtable.

[Polvos]

I understand how people are convinced that transparency can hold things accountable but it won't if The Bitcoin Foundation seeks more power through Congress and cultural manipulation. IF it labels itself as the standards body, it may become hard to challenge. People may accept it and its software with little question. This is a reasonable fear.

WHOEVER CONTROLS THE MAJOR CODE RELEASES, CONTROLS BITCOIN.

It doesn't matter if a few miners can fork if none of the other releases have clout.

This post is really a good piece of modern phylosophy.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I'ts not difficult to list someone as a founding member even if they "disappeared"

It's not difficult, it's just a lie. As the name "Bitcoin Foundation" itself, since you're not the foundation of Bitcoin.

Whats a lie?

Satoshi is a member of the foundation because he is the creator of Bitcoin.

Just because he "disappeared" doesn't mean he can't be member in absentee.

In fact, the bylaws outline that if Satoshi returns how he will claim his seat.

Satoshi cannot be a member at all until he provides his name and address, so how can he be a "founding member"?

This dichotomy will always fester away at the core of the "Foundation" ... just so you know, that it is based on a lie.

For that reason, I'm not joining ... I might make independent donations to Gavin for his time ... I didn't know he needed the cash actually or would have donated earlier.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

What most of the people here are missing is that the foundation got founded, because Bitcoin is going mainstream.

It is not possible to go mainstream without any official body that will represent us, comercially & legally. Ever.
The real world is not decentralized as Bitcoin network is, so we need some kind of gateway between both worlds.

This is the basic and real reason the foundation was created

First, it's not necessary to use large font and take up page space to make a statement. Second, is your statement opinion or likely fact, and why?

Oh, sorry for that - it's just my opinion.

It's getting messy here, so i had to increase the font.