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Author Topic: Slimcoin | First Proof of Burn currency | Decentralized Web  (Read 128623 times)
gjhiggins
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October 13, 2019, 01:36:20 PM
 #2741

The guy you are indirectly mentioning among those invested in some large amount of SLM is me.
No, I meant muf18 who spent weeks of his time searching out and talking to various devs, trying to find any interest in taking on the legacy Slimcoin codebase, unfortunately without success.

Cheers

Graham
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johnwhitestar
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October 13, 2019, 05:08:53 PM
Last edit: October 13, 2019, 05:33:34 PM by johnwhitestar
 #2742

The guy you are indirectly mentioning among those invested in some large amount of SLM is me.
No, I meant muf18 who spent weeks of his time searching out and talking to various devs, trying to find any interest in taking on the legacy Slimcoin codebase, unfortunately without success.

Cheers

Graham

That's why you were advising me about people who made a lot of effort before me. Now I understand a bit better the situation.
My idea was the following: I've bought a quantity of SLM as I said in order to offer a share of the market to a possible interested developer. How does it sound to you?

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October 13, 2019, 07:42:22 PM
Last edit: October 13, 2019, 07:57:56 PM by gjhiggins
 #2743

Do you guys have a problem with a lot of orphans in the last a few days? I have confirmed blocks, but after some time all are going in orphans
It has been a bit bumpy, both my develop and master clients discovered they'd lost touch with the network, suddenly reporting that they'd found themselves several hundred blocks behind. I stopped and started them both, they synced up without problems, seeing stake and burn rewards. chainz client seems to have suffered the same problem, a simple restart might well fix it.

From the Heztner-hosted box' `getpeerinfo`:
Code:
[
    {
        "addr" : "145.239.189.106:41682",
        "inbound" : false,
        "height" : 1891506,
    },
    {
        "addr" : "185.68.67.37:41682",
        "inbound" : false,
        "height" : 1891506,
    },
    {
        "addr" : "178.203.10.89:41682",
        "inbound" : false,
        "height" : 1891506,
    },
    {
        "addr" : "5.9.39.9:41682",
        "inbound" : false,
        "height" : 1891506,
    },
    {
        "addr" : "185.79.5.221:49244",
        "inbound" : true,
        "height" : 1891510,
    },
    {
        "addr" : "183.225.239.201:59224",
        "inbound" : true,
        "height" : 1891511,
    },
    {
        "addr" : "85.212.164.249:40264",
        "inbound" : true,
        "height" : 1891512,
    },
    {
        "addr" : "42.241.107.195:40642",
        "inbound" : true,
        "height" : 1891512,
    },
    {
        "addr" : "151.64.26.244:58158",
        "inbound" : true,
        "height" : 424181,
    }
]


Cheers

Graham
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October 13, 2019, 07:47:58 PM
 #2744

It has been a bit bumpy, both my develop and master clients discovered they'd lost touch with the network, suddenly reporting that they'd found themselves several hundred blocks behind. I stopped and started them both, they synced up without problems, seeing stake and burn rewards. chainz client seems to suffered the same problem, a simple restart might well fix it.

I thought so, is there any way to contact them asking to reboot their wallet? (I was not able to find any info on how to get in touch with them on their site)

gjhiggins
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October 14, 2019, 12:22:32 AM
 #2745

It has been a bit bumpy, both my develop and master clients discovered they'd lost touch with the network, suddenly reporting that they'd found themselves several hundred blocks behind. I stopped and started them both, they synced up without problems, seeing stake and burn rewards. chainz client seems to suffered the same problem, a simple restart might well fix it.

I thought so, is there any way to contact them asking to reboot their wallet? (I was not able to find any info on how to get in touch with them on their site)

No need, the chainz node is now synched.

Cheers

Graham
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October 14, 2019, 05:44:41 AM
Last edit: October 14, 2019, 06:11:22 AM by johnwhitestar
 #2746

It has been a bit bumpy, both my develop and master clients discovered they'd lost touch with the network, suddenly reporting that they'd found themselves several hundred blocks behind. I stopped and started them both, they synced up without problems, seeing stake and burn rewards. chainz client seems to suffered the same problem, a simple restart might well fix it.

I thought so, is there any way to contact them asking to reboot their wallet? (I was not able to find any info on how to get in touch with them on their site)

No need, the chainz node is now synched.

Cheers

Graham


That's great! By the way I've just discovered that there is another explorer not mentioned in OP: https://bchain.info/slm/

d5000
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October 14, 2019, 05:02:01 PM
 #2747

That's great! By the way I've just discovered that there is another explorer not mentioned in OP: https://bchain.info/slm/
Good news, so somebody probably paid this block explorer again (it was the main SLM explorer in 2017 but then it was discontinued). I'll link it in the OP again. Thanks  Smiley

Regarding the problem of the coding style: I don't know if Graham has tried that, but wouldn't it be easier to port the original SLM changes (PoB and DCrypt, mainly) to a newer codebase (at least PPC 0.6 or 0.7) than vice-versa? In this case, the coding style could be reviewed and adapted.

@gjhiggins: I've just fired up my testnet node again. Is yours still online? Are you testing the "hard cap client" (with my small addition which prevents more than 13 PoS blocks in a row) or the original "improved PoS client" from iguanodon1?

Ah, one thing: Due to the mentioned VPS problems currently the Slimweb gateway (http://slimco.in/gateway.html) isn't working. I doubt however many people were using it lately Wink

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October 14, 2019, 06:06:31 PM
 #2748

That's great! By the way I've just discovered that there is another explorer not mentioned in OP: https://bchain.info/slm/
Good news, so somebody probably paid this block explorer again (it was the main SLM explorer in 2017 but then it was discontinued). I'll link it in the OP again. Thanks  Smiley
It's seems like their business model has changed and they are basing on donations right now. I think we'd better donate something to them at some point to keep them working.

Regarding the problem of the coding style: I don't know if Graham has tried that, but wouldn't it be easier to port the original SLM changes (PoB and DCrypt, mainly) to a newer codebase (at least PPC 0.6 or 0.7) than vice-versa? In this case, the coding style could be reviewed and adapted.
If your idea could be implemented it would be great. I'd like us to make a list of the goals we'd need to reach and to create a kind of roadmap (without binding timetables), it would help us to set up tasks for any additional developer we might find and to find investors to cover the expenses of each task/step.


Ah, one thing: Due to the mentioned VPS problems currently the Slimweb gateway (http://slimco.in/gateway.html) isn't working. I doubt however many people were using it lately Wink

Great tool, I think as you guys have worked in that direction we need to develop it further. Maybe connecting Slimweb to the project of hashed pages of Graham in order to be absolutely sure the page that the visitor is seeing is what the published wanted him to see.  
And what if we develop Slimcoin to use it as an unbiased search engine or a kind of web directory?

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October 15, 2019, 10:23:59 PM
Last edit: October 16, 2019, 12:46:11 AM by d5000
 #2749

I'd like us to make a list of the goals we'd need to reach and to create a kind of roadmap (without binding timetables), it would help us to set up tasks for any additional developer we might find and to find investors to cover the expenses of each task/step.
I have no objections to that. I have already created a page for feature requests/proposals in the Wiki, but yes, some space to organize and assign priorities to the tasks that have to be done would be a great addition. If you want, you can create a page of this kind there.

Great tool, I think as you guys have worked in that direction we need to develop it further. Maybe connecting Slimweb to the project of hashed pages of Graham in order to be absolutely sure the page that the visitor is seeing is what the published wanted him to see.
My "Slimweb" tools are just some additions to Graham's original "ACME" concept. It uses the same codebase, only it provides a tool for easier publishing ("slimweb-publisher"), the Gateway at slimco.in (as an easy tool to access to hashed pages) and a little update to the code which transforms the blockchain data into a RDF database which can easily be queried (as SPARQL endpoints). To this code (a blocknotify script) I added some options to be able to re-sync the chain easier in the case the Slimcoin node or the "RDF node" crash.

Everybody can, in theory, verify the content comparing the hash stored on the blockchain with the HTML source of the displayed pages.

I outlined some ideas for new Slimweb features here: https://github.com/slimcoin-project/Slimcoin/wiki/The-Slimweb:--A-decentralized-web-based-on-Slimcoin on "Future plans"

However maybe the most urgent thing is that we would need more people hosting a "Slimweb" RDF node. Currently, as I'm the only one (Graham had a test node but I don't know if it's currently online), every time my client crashes, the node stops adding pages to the RDF database, and if the server crashes completely, Slimweb is offline. With more nodes, people could select the node they want in the Gateway, and if one doesn't work, another one would, surely.

And what if we develop Slimcoin to use it as an unbiased search engine or a kind of web directory?
There was an user who wanted to develop something of this kind, but unfortunately I haven't heard any news from that project.

Edit: Just saw that Graham has added the hard cap code to the "develop" branch. Thanks! I hope we can finalize the tests in the next weeks and thus implement the hard cap still this year (the most complicated thing being the soft fork).

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October 19, 2019, 01:21:42 PM
Last edit: October 20, 2019, 11:16:15 PM by johnwhitestar
 #2750

I'd like us to make a list of the goals we'd need to reach and to create a kind of roadmap (without binding timetables), it would help us to set up tasks for any additional developer we might find and to find investors to cover the expenses of each task/step.
I have no objections to that. I have already created a page for feature requests/proposals in the Wiki, but yes, some space to organize and assign priorities to the tasks that have to be done would be a great addition. If you want, you can create a page of this kind there.
To create a roadmap we need to activate a discussion. So we need people ready to discuss things. It can be just me and you, but it's a work that has to be done. And once it's done and we have concepts ready that make SLM different from any other coin we need to put it on bitcointalk SLM thread and everywhere we are speaking about SLM as first things to mention. Because there is so many coins that an investor doesn't have time to dedicate to understand whether a coin has any novelty or not. If it's not mentioned as first thing where he is reading he'll just pass to another coin.

Great tool, I think as you guys have worked in that direction we need to develop it further. Maybe connecting Slimweb to the project of hashed pages of Graham in order to be absolutely sure the page that the visitor is seeing is what the published wanted him to see.
My "Slimweb" tools are just some additions to Graham's original "ACME" concept. It uses the same codebase, only it provides a tool for easier publishing ("slimweb-publisher"), the Gateway at slimco.in (as an easy tool to access to hashed pages) and a little update to the code which transforms the blockchain data into a RDF database which can easily be queried (as SPARQL endpoints). To this code (a blocknotify script) I added some options to be able to re-sync the chain easier in the case the Slimcoin node or the "RDF node" crash.

Everybody can, in theory, verify the content comparing the hash stored on the blockchain with the HTML source of the displayed pages.

I outlined some ideas for new Slimweb features here: https://github.com/slimcoin-project/Slimcoin/wiki/The-Slimweb:--A-decentralized-web-based-on-Slimcoin on "Future plans"

However maybe the most urgent thing is that we would need more people hosting a "Slimweb" RDF node. Currently, as I'm the only one (Graham had a test node but I don't know if it's currently online), every time my client crashes, the node stops adding pages to the RDF database, and if the server crashes completely, Slimweb is offline. With more nodes, people could select the node they want in the Gateway, and if one doesn't work, another one would, surely.
I can host some nodes. What are the minimum specs to host a node? Where can I find setup instructions?

I'd like to ask some things:
- How Slimweb concept is different from steemed for instance? And from NMC?
- Right now we are speaking about just on page publishing, right? Wordpress publishing is out of our reach at the moment for instance, right?
- The price of publishing is the price of transaction? In this case should the price of SLM go up could it be that the price of publishing would become too high?
- If the file published on Bittorrent disappears the published pages disappears as well right?
- Is it possible to point a traditional domain name to a Slimweb page? If so is there any chance that the Google bots will able to find it at some point?
- Being BTC technology not completely anonymous how the Slimweb publisher can be sure he stays anonymous?

And what if we develop Slimcoin to use it as an unbiased search engine or a kind of web directory?
There was an user who wanted to develop something of this kind, but unfortunately I haven't heard any news from that project.

I think we need to use blockchain and specifically Slimweb for something peculiar, for instance being blockchain immutable it can be used as registry office (registering the marriages, births, deaths, ownership of properties).

Another idea could be to set up rules for Slimweb pages publishing in order them to be intrinsically easily searchable.

The main challenge in Internet is traffic. If we find some area that is not covered by traditional internet and which represents a need for many people Slimweb may become useful.


Edit: maybe we can create the internet of pages so there is no domain name involved and there is a maximum decentralisation. Each publisher may chose a category/sub-category/sub-sub-category for his page, so the pages are easily found (for instance inputting category tag on the page itself).  The readers may report the pages that are not in the correct category. The new categories/sub-categories/sub-sub-categories may be decided on the base of the voting inside of SLM ecosystem. Or on the opposite the publishers can create their own sub-sub-....-sub-sub-categories with the goal his page to be among few other pages in the same category in order it to be easily found by who needs them. Or the publisher in the same category may decide to split their category into sub-categories in order their pages to have less competition in their sub-category.
We can create a main distinction between "opinions" and "facts" to be the two root categories of the Slimweb.

Edit1: Maybe we can think about internet of objects instead of internet of pages. Each object: text, video, audio, code, file, tweet and many others that maybe are not invented yet would have one or more than one identification category array. So the internet of objects will be a kind of multidimensional matrix. Everybody can create objects or assembly them from the objects of the others. Such constructs can be quite complex, so the structure resulting from the assembly activity can be more sophisticated than a site or a platform used in traditional internet. The publisher may split its own objects into smaller pieces and give to each piece its own categorisation array. SLM will be used to pay the publishing or to tip the publishers in order them to go on with their business if the readers do like their products. The search results of a possible search engine could be a number of category arrays to chose from, each one of those category arrays containing a limited number (10?) of objects.

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October 21, 2019, 06:07:12 PM
Last edit: October 21, 2019, 06:20:51 PM by d5000
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 #2751

To create a roadmap we need to activate a discussion. So we need people ready to discuss things. It can be just me and you, but it's a work that has to be done.
Well, I agree. In my opinion, the top priorities for "core" development are:
1) Finalize tests for hard cap (see last entry at "develop" branch) and plan the coming soft fork. Improving SLM's security is top priority.
2) Prepare the code style for porting SLM to new codebase.
3) Port SLM to a newer codebase (I would choose first PPC 0.7 as a base, directly to 0.8 is imo a jump a bit too big because that's already modern Bitcoin code which needs lots of changes.).
The token mechanism for proof-of-donation could be developed in parallel to point 2.

I can host some nodes. What are the minimum specs to host a node? Where can I find setup instructions?
I would strongly recommend a LAMP setup (Linux, Apache, MySQL/MariaDB) which is pretty standard for a VPS. A small VPS with about 1 GB RAM (even 512 MB should work) is enough. You also need Python 3, and a Slimcoin full node. (You can feed more than one Slimweb node with a single Slimcoin node, but I didn't try that.)

You need to install first Apache Jena Fuseki 2. Documentation is here: https://jena.apache.org/documentation/fuseki2/ Basically, it's just unpacking the compressed file and include "fuseki-server" into your PATH. Create a directory for your database. Before you start the scripts from the next step you need to run fuseki with the following command:

Code:
fuseki-server --loc=DATABASE /NAME

(with DATABASE being the directory you just created for the DB and /NAME being a name used by your server, I used "pub_slmchain" and I think that's hardcoded somewhere in the scripts, so you should use that, too, for now).

Then you have to download https://github.com/d5000/acme-minitools . There is a readme file. The important script is block2rdf.py. This script converts the original blockchain data to RDF so it can be queried by the gateway and other applications. You can start it with "-pub" mode so it only stores the relevant data for Slimweb publications.

I'll try to write a better tutorial these days (I think I did that some months ago here in the forum, but I have to search that post).

Quote
I'd like to ask some things:
- How Slimweb concept is different from steemed for instance? And from NMC?
There is a short overview here: https://github.com/slimcoin-project/Slimcoin/wiki/Slimweb-comparison

Slimweb doesn't store the complete website data on the blockchain like Steem, and does not use NMC's namecoin domains.

Quote
- Right now we are speaking about just on page publishing, right? Wordpress publishing is out of our reach at the moment for instance, right?
The concept doesn't allow server side scripting, so no "standard" CMS like Wordpress are possible. However, in theory a similarly comfortable editing functionality could be reached with techniques from ZeroNet (but that has to be ported). For now, the best way to edit Slimweb pages comfortably is maybe something like [ulr=https://jekyllrb.com/]Jekyll[/quote].

Quote
- The price of publishing is the price of transaction? In this case should the price of SLM go up could it be that the price of publishing would become too high?
True. That's another thing that should be updated once the codebase has been ported to PPC 0.6+ (in PPC, the mandatory fee was also reduced drastically). It needs probably a hard fork, however (see hardfork wishlist).

Quote
- If the file published on Bittorrent disappears the published pages disappears as well right?
True.
Quote
- Is it possible to point a traditional domain name to a Slimweb page? If so is there any chance that the Google bots will able to find it at some point?
Yes, it is possible, but at this moment only via a gateway, which can lead into problems if a gateway disappears. It is then possible that bots find it. However, there is a problem with Google (Slimweb pages constitute currently "mixed content") and so they won't rank very high. The best long-term solution would be an own search engine, however.

Quote
- Being BTC technology not completely anonymous how the Slimweb publisher can be sure he stays anonymous?
There's no additional anonymization technique. If he's afraid to get his IP detected, the most safe way would be to publish the page from another computer (Internet cafe etc.), creating the needed hashes/transactions offline, for example if he's living in a repressive country.

Quote
I think we need to use blockchain and specifically Slimweb for something peculiar, for instance being blockchain immutable it can be used as registry office (registering the marriages, births, deaths, ownership of properties).
One idea that was brought up by Graham was to use it to store scientific publications. But anyway: It is potentially a very easy and simple way to publish all kinds of stuff online, potentially simpler than with rented webspace, and it can be made (if we integrate additional tools, which already exist, only they have to be bundled) similarly simple to platforms like Jimdo.

Quote
Another idea could be to set up rules for Slimweb pages publishing in order them to be intrinsically easily searchable.
Do you mean something like the Semantic Web? That's also an idea that was circulating.

Quote
Edit: maybe we can create the internet of pages so there is no domain name involved and there is a maximum decentralisation. Each publisher may chose a category/sub-category/sub-sub-category for his page, so the pages are easily found (for instance inputting category tag on the page itself).
Yep. The features you mention (also the categories like "opinions" and "facts") can be achieved with Semantic Web techniques. We would need a vocabulary (rules) for that. We had a discusssion to integrate the Slimweb with the Solid project (developed by Tim Berners-Lee) which would provide a basic ruleset. It could then also integrate features from decentralized social networks.

I think, however, that voting wouldn't be very useful. It adds lots of complexity, and you can't avoid that somebody publishes something which violates the rules. You can, however, provide tools like a search engine or catalogue that only will show pages abiding to the rules (that can be automated). The rules can be voted, but on an external platform.

Quote
Maybe we can think about internet of objects instead of internet of pages. Each object: text, video, audio, code, file, tweet and many others that maybe are not invented yet would have one or more than one identification category array.
Yes, that can also be achieved with Semantic Web vocabulary.

Quote
SLM will be used to pay the publishing or to tip the publishers in order them to go on with their business if the readers do like their products.
Agree. One of the biggest advantages of Web2Web/Slimweb is that it can combine websites and payments (e.g. for electronic commerce or donations) in a very simple way, because an address is already provided by the page. So you can be sure you really pay to a specific publisher.

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October 24, 2019, 10:40:29 PM
 #2752

That's great! By the way I've just discovered that there is another explorer not mentioned in OP: https://bchain.info/slm/
Good news, so somebody probably paid this block explorer again (it was the main SLM explorer in 2017 but then it was discontinued). I'll link it in the OP again. Thanks  Smiley
I suspect the bchain.info operator (Markus Tervooren) is hosting the Slimcoin blockchain for his own reasons. If any Slimcoin hodlers wish to show concrete support, there's an LTC donation addy. The chainz explorer is hosted on a straight commercial basis, the hosting fee is 8.90€ per month and, as of today, there are 4 days left on the meter.

Quote
Regarding the problem of the coding style: I don't know if Graham has tried that, but wouldn't it be easier to port the original SLM changes (PoB and DCrypt, mainly) to a newer codebase (at least PPC 0.6 or 0.7) than vice-versa? In this case, the coding style could be reviewed and adapted.
It's just whitespace - P4Titan's IDE automatically reformatted every file he edited from 4-space tab indentation to 2-space tab indentation, removed all the spaces between if, for and while tokens and the following parenthesis, e.g. if (foo) to if(foo). To me, that smacks of the typical posturing dogma of "I'm a real programmer" that ironically betrays just the opposite. I've reverted his IDE's auto-applied changes to the codebase to bring it back into conformity to the original coding style/format (ditto for the QtGui code).

Quote
@gjhiggins: I've just fired up my testnet node again. Is yours still online? Are you testing the "hard cap client" (with my small addition which prevents more than 13 PoS blocks in a row) or the original "improved PoS client" from iguanodon1?
I realised it was a pointless exercise and turned it off - the network conditions for testnet do not in any way replicate the network conditions for mainnet and so it is impossible to draw any reliable, well-founded conclusions. As regards testing a different staking regime on mainnet, well that option is wide open to any node owner whether they be blackhat, whitehat or greyhat.

As far as I could tell, the hard cap client seemed to simply stop all staking permanently. Unfortunately I don't yet have a good understanding of staking behaviour, so I wasn't able to conclude anything useful. Instead, I returned to using a standard client (compiled from master) and it's been running happily for a couple of months now. I had to stop-and-restart it a couple of times when it froze up during the recent network instability but the restarted client synced up straight away and, now that the network has settled down somewhat, the client is running fairly economically (for Slimcoin, that is) using between 10-15% of its allocated thread. The last PoS minting was on 2019/10/19:  and the last burn minting was on the same date.

Cheers

Graham
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October 25, 2019, 02:43:49 AM
 #2753

I realised it was a pointless exercise and turned it off - the network conditions for testnet do not in any way replicate the network conditions for mainnet and so it is impossible to draw any reliable, well-founded conclusions. As regards testing a different staking regime on mainnet, well that option is wide open to any node owner whether they be blackhat, whitehat or greyhat.
It would perhaps make sense if we planned and tested an "attack" scenario, playing around with the difficulty and trying to maximize the influence of one participant on the blockchain (in the sense of trying to get the maximum number of blocks in a row). Obviously, with only two or three testnet nodes, that would be highly artificial but would give the opportunity to test for the "worst case".

Quote
As far as I could tell, the hard cap client seemed to simply stop all staking permanently. Unfortunately I don't yet have a good understanding of staking behaviour, so I wasn't able to conclude anything useful.
Yes, that's also what I observed - once the cap is reached, you have to restart the client to begin to stake again after the next PoW blocks, which is obviously unacceptable. IMO this points to that the staking thread isn't started again after being stopped. I can look at it again once I start the testnet client next time, but it would be the best option if someone skilled in C++ could look at what is wrong.

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October 28, 2019, 08:43:35 AM
Last edit: October 30, 2019, 01:40:20 PM by johnwhitestar
 #2754

I realised it was a pointless exercise and turned it off - the network conditions for testnet do not in any way replicate the network conditions for mainnet and so it is impossible to draw any reliable, well-founded conclusions. As regards testing a different staking regime on mainnet, well that option is wide open to any node owner whether they be blackhat, whitehat or greyhat.
Should we need additional nodes for testing I can provide them.

Instead, I returned to using a standard client (compiled from master) and it's been running happily for a couple of months now. I had to stop-and-restart it a couple of times when it froze up during the recent network instability but the restarted client synced up straight away and, now that the network has settled down somewhat, the client is running fairly economically (for Slimcoin, that is) using between 10-15% of its allocated thread.
I have a slimcoin wallet on a server compiled from master and I can confirm that it has been running smoothly for months by now.
It takes 1-2 hours to launch it and days to download complete blockchain, but I'm not seeing other issues with it.
The same thing with my desktop gui wallet. The only issue I had was that it had suddenly disregarded the blockchain already downloaded and begun downloading it again, to avoid this issue in the future I've just made a backup of .slimcoin folder so I have a bootstrap for the next time.


The token mechanism for proof-of-donation could be developed in parallel to point 2.
I'm still thinking about developing PoD based token using KMD CC because it will give us the possibility to involve other coins teams since the beginning and thus making this project more unbiased and decentralised. It will give also more visibility to the token I have in mind and will add visibility to SLM (as, to honour the fact SLM's PoB has inspired my invention of PoD, SLM will be certainly in the first group of coins enabled to mine the token we are speaking about). However I'm not sure I'll be able to code it/find a developer for this idea in a short period of time so if you'll have time to code it using PeerAssets before, we can swap the SLM based token on more advanced structure once it's ready later (I've also spoken with BLOCK developers to see whether they will be able to find a solution to smart blockchain keeping and managing the private key of another blockchain in a protected manner, so maybe even before I'm ready to develop the idea on KMD our challenge will be solved by BLOCK developers so we'll be able to create PoD mined coin with its own blockchain).

[Well, I agree. In my opinion, the top priorities for "core" development are:
1) Finalize tests for hard cap (see last entry at "develop" branch) and plan the coming soft fork. Improving SLM's security is top priority.
 the page. So you can be sure you really pay to a specific publisher.
Considering the last Graham's post should we consider that we are not working on this anymore?

I think we need to use blockchain and specifically Slimweb for something peculiar, for instance being blockchain immutable it can be used as registry office (registering the marriages, births, deaths, ownership of properties).
One idea that was brought up by Graham was to use it to store scientific publications.
I'm thinking about where to publish ideas that are on the basis of the PoD token we are speaking about, struggling in my mind between the desire of glory ( Smiley) and the need to protect information before the whole concept has been realised. So maybe it can be bitcointalk, medium.com, livejournal, hubzilla, or Slimweb. Should I publish on Slimweb only people interested in Slimcoin would have the possibility to access this information in the beginning. Is it possible to create a kind of forum based on Slimweb? Is it possible to protect pages with a password (or gpg)?

- The price of publishing is the price of transaction? In this case should the price of SLM go up could it be that the price of publishing would become too high?
True. That's another thing that should be updated once the codebase has been ported to PPC 0.6+ (in PPC, the mandatory fee was also reduced drastically). It needs probably a hard fork, however (see hardfork wishlist).
Maybe the price of transaction is not an issue, as it can be reduced gradually as it was done for BTC for instance.

- If the file published on Bittorrent disappears the published pages disappears as well right?
True.
Don't really know whether it's an issue or it can be turned in an opportunity if applied to the right subject. By now I'd say that the content that is absolutely not popular will disappear from Slimweb, right?

The best long-term solution would be an own search engine, however.
I'd suggest us to develop Slimweb with advanced searchability by design since the beginning. I feel like traditional search engines are not giving good results anymore and sometimes they are changing parameters in order to hide the content they are not interested to be publicly available.  
 
- Being BTC technology not completely anonymous how the Slimweb publisher can be sure he stays anonymous?
There's no additional anonymization technique. If he's afraid to get his IP detected, the most safe way would be to publish the page from another computer (Internet cafe etc.), creating the needed hashes/transactions offline, for example if he's living in a repressive country.
For those who trade on exchanges with KYC implemented and without using Tor their public addresses has been already compromised (99,999% or people), so maybe we should consider a solution to turn Slimcoin publishing back into anonymous, but should someone begin publishing illegal content the node owners will be put under pressure sooner or later by authorities.

  
Do you mean something like the Semantic Web? That's also an idea that was circulating.
Yes Semantic Web is cool.


SLM will be used to pay the publishing or to tip the publishers in order them to go on with their business if the readers do like their products.
Agree. One of the biggest advantages of Web2Web/Slimweb is that it can combine websites and payments (e.g. for electronic commerce or donations) in a very simple way, because an address is already provided by the page. So you can be sure you really pay to a specific publisher.
Maybe we can consider that the pages that receive more tips will go up in their category as position, which will stimulate people writing better content and putting it into the right category, but of course in case Slimweb becomes mainstream the big companies will manipulate the search results using money.

Quote
You guys have a done a lot of work on SLM already but reading the OP here it doesn't shine. Maybe someone should begin popularising and divulging what you've done and doing for SLM.

Update: I think it could be strategically relevant if we begin working on the search engine before trying to create a parallel internet based on Slimcoin. I mean that it's difficult to compete with the whole internet as it can take centuries to create a valid alternative. What is possible is to begin categorising the already existent internet pages in accordance to our search engine rules. Which could lead to people using more and more Slimegine to find information. It can be a kind of business for someone, categorising pages. Whoever can categorise any page in Internet in agreement to our rules and let his SLM address on that page for tips. The best search results hopefully will receive tips from the readers. If not we should create a rewarding mechanism that let people make money through intelligently categorised Internet pages, IPFs objects, Bittorent objects, Newsgroups information and so on.

Update 2019-11-30: I've made an agreement with an advertiser, tomorrow I'd like to begin advertising SLM with him. Of course any brainstorming would considerably improve my decision. And I think it's vital for the truly decentralised coin to have the community participating in decisions and the decisions to be extremely transparent and clear to anybody. So if you'd like to know the details of this action, to discuss them or participate in this small investment please let me know I'm open to explain my points and to change my ideas if reasonable.

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October 30, 2019, 10:03:40 PM
Last edit: October 30, 2019, 10:40:36 PM by d5000
 #2755

I'm still thinking about developing PoD based token using KMD CC because it will give us the possibility to involve other coins teams since the beginning and thus making this project more unbiased and decentralised.
I tend to agree, and I'm sure that at some moment a switch to a sidechain for tokens will be needed if we don't want to bloat too much. But as I would like PeerAssets to be ported to SLM anyway, I will probably approach the PPC community to "officially" integrate a mechanism to issue tokens based on the payments to certain addresses. This can then be the base for PoD tokens.

[Well, I agree. In my opinion, the top priorities for "core" development are:
1) Finalize tests for hard cap (see last entry at "develop" branch) and plan the coming soft fork. Improving SLM's security is top priority.
 the page. So you can be sure you really pay to a specific publisher.
Considering the last Graham's post should we consider that we are not working on this anymore?
The bug with the client stopping staking has to be fixed, but otherwise the hard cap mechanism is a big security improvement.


Quote
Is it possible to create a kind of forum based on Slimweb?
Should be possible, for example with technology from ZeroNet. It needs, however, some development effort ...

Quote
Is it possible to protect pages with a password (or gpg)?
Should also be possible. As a simple way, one can simply encrypt the page, and add a feature to the Slimweb gateways (where you can browse Slimweb content) to insert the password used for the encryption so the protected content is shown instantly.
Quote
Maybe the price of transaction is not an issue, as it can be reduced gradually as it was done for BTC for instance.
It's not that simple, as the transaction fee is hard-coded in the protocol (inherited from PPC) and transactions without fee aren't valid. That means that we need to hard fork every time we want to lower the mandatory fee. The fee reduction is one of the crucial things which have to be done, probably when the codebase is updated to PPC 0.8+ when a hard fork will be needed anyway.

Quote
Don't really know whether it's an issue or it can be turned in an opportunity if applied to the right subject. By now I'd say that the content that is absolutely not popular will disappear from Slimweb, right?
Yes. You're right that this can be a "feature", above all if we consider the problem of the "right to forget" (people publishing personal data they want to delete afterwards). A kind of "mandatory storing" of all content data would make that impossible. Right now, the way gateways are working, if you "update" a Slimweb page replacing the content with "nothing" then the gateways won't show the old content (they always will show the last version) even if the content which should be hidden is still is shared at BitTorrent, so it's "de facto" deleted, which is desirable.

Quote
I'd suggest us to develop Slimweb with advanced searchability by design since the beginning.
Yep, that's a good idea, I think semantic-web-based rules should be defined for searchability (using, if possible, existing vocabularies, like those based on the Solid project) and then implemented in the gateways and in the Slimweb Publisher software. People not wanting to abide to that rules can still publish content in a "raw" mode but their pages wouldn't be found by that search function.
 
Quote
For those who trade on exchanges with KYC implemented and without using Tor their public addresses has been already compromised (99,999% or people), so maybe we should consider a solution to turn Slimcoin publishing back into anonymous, but should someone begin publishing illegal content the node owners will be put under pressure sooner or later by authorities.
There are basically two anonymity problems to consider: SLM address anonymity and IP anonymity. Unfortunately the addresses used for publishing Slimweb content must contain some coins for the transaction fees. You can, however, mix these coins before you send them to that address if you don't want to get tracked. This step could be obviously integrated in the publishing software (with a feature like "prepare address for anonymous publishing"), but first of all we would need a Slimcoin mixing service. We can, perhaps, use Bitcoin's native CoinJoin mechanism once it's implemented.

The other big anonymization problem is the publishing of the content via BitTorrent, because it shares your IP address, but here we're bound to the features offered by that protocol if we don't want to switch to another one (which one? Gnutella, perhaps? IPFS? I'm not an expert with file sharing).


Quote
Maybe we can consider that the pages that receive more tips will go up in their category as position, which will stimulate people writing better content and putting it into the right category, but of course in case Slimweb becomes mainstream the big companies will manipulate the search results using money.
That can all be defined in the vocabulary used for the "search engine". I would however suggest implementing different sorting modes (by donations, by relevance, by date etc.).

Quote
Update: I think it could be strategically relevant if we begin working on the search engine before trying to create a parallel internet based on Slimcoin. I mean that it's difficult to compete with the whole internet as it can take centuries to create a valid alternative.
Agree with that, but I think it's not possible to compete "with the whole internet". I guess the current WWW approach will be the majority approach for a long time. But Slimweb could get a niche. The categorization/searchability semantic web vocabulary used on Slimweb can be used also for a WWW search engine, here you're right that would be fine.

Quote
Update 2019-11-30: I've made an agreement with an advertiser, tomorrow I'd like to begin advertising SLM with him. Of course any brainstorming would considerably improve my decision.
That's fine, thanks! Yep, I would be interested in the details, you can send them via PM if you want.

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October 30, 2019, 10:23:16 PM
Last edit: November 03, 2019, 04:35:52 PM by johnwhitestar
 #2756

Update 2019-11-30: I've made an agreement with an advertiser, tomorrow I'd like to begin advertising SLM with him. Of course any brainstorming would considerably improve my decision.
That's fine, thanks! Yep, I would be interested in the details, you can send them via PM if you want.

It's ok for me to describe the thing publicly (transparency is the strength of any truly decentralised coin).

So the story is the following:
A guy went yesterday on Discord and asked whether we'd be interested to be promoted to the moon.
I answered him that we don't need to go to the moon, but an appropriate promotion would be fine.
Afterwards he contacted me privately and we chatted a bit.
They have a number of groups on Telegram where they discuss cryptocurrencies in different languages.
They have advertising slots there that they are selling.
They would make one advertising post each day in two channels they have, that have something like 21k subscribers.
It will last two weeks and will cost us 75$.
If nothing happens we won't be working together if we'll see results we can go on with this cooperation.
How does it sound to you?
 
Updates 2019-11-02:
- At the moment we are stuck with the above described advertising campaign, as the advertiser asked me to pay in advance which is not acceptable for me for obvious reasons.

- @gjhiggins, @d500 There is a guy that may be interested to rewrite our code, would it be possible for you to supervise his work?

Updates 2019-11-03:
- seems like the negotiation about advertising is going on, today I was contacted by a kind of superior of the guy I was negotiating with;
- there is another advertising proposal I've received privately, to pay a signature here on bitcointalk at 0.00012 BTC per post up to 10 posts a day, which should make considering the members of our Community to add our signature while posting here (seems like it has a great value);
- @gjhiggins has informed me that the rewrite has been already done by him! (seems like in SLM people prefer doing things instead of speaking).

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November 08, 2019, 03:19:28 PM
 #2757

Yep, gjhiggins did the whitespace corrections. Thanks!

I'm posting because I just got a clue what caused the problem I mentioned some weeks ago: that found PoS block CoinStake transactions do not appear in the "Transactions" tab in the QT wallet from 0.6 onwards.

The reason is actually a change introduced in April 2019: It requires block generation transactions (PoW and PoS) to reach a "mainchain depth" of at least 2 to be shown in that list.

That's the check that is done there:
Code:
       if (wtx.GetDepthInMainChain() < 2)
        {
            return false;
        }
Unfortunately, when I generate PoS blocks, even when they get much more than one confirmation (>50), the Coinstake transactions aren't shown in the Transaction list. (They are shown correctly via "listtransactions", however, so it's only a GUI problem.) When I restart the client, however, the transactions are shown instantly.

Before April, this "confirmation check" was only done for PoW-mined Coinbase transactions, but it does work correctly for them.

I suspect that the GetDepthInMainChain() function doesn't work properly with Coinstake (proof of stake generation) transactions. I haven't figured out why, it's really strange because this function checks the depth of a block, not of a transaction. The function is in main.cpp around line 947.

Would it be an option to revert to the old code until that problem is solved? The downside is that the list then will show many orphans, but otherwise it seems to work well when I remove "wtx.IsCoinStake()" check at the start of that block.

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November 09, 2019, 09:30:26 AM
 #2758

- @gjhiggins has informed me that the rewrite has been already done by him! (seems like in SLM people prefer doing things instead of speaking).
More a case of managing one's time/effort effectively. I make contributions if/when I get the opportunity and the silence is just my way of not falsely raising expectations.

Cheers

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November 09, 2019, 01:46:28 PM
 #2759

I never heard of SlimWeb but my expectations have just arose to the point where it forced me to break my silence. However if u were to make a forum based on the SlimWeb technology u would probably want to implement some kind of ranking system which relies on blocks mined to validate and publish posts from a single user. Once block is mined, be sure that ur post is up. If its delayed ur post will also be queried.
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November 10, 2019, 02:26:10 PM
 #2760

I never heard of SlimWeb but my expectations have just arose to the point where it forced me to break my silence. However if u were to make a forum based on the SlimWeb technology u would probably want to implement some kind of ranking system which relies on blocks mined to validate and publish posts from a single user. Once block is mined, be sure that ur post is up. If its delayed ur post will also be queried.


Your post have almost just aroused my expectations to the point where it forced me to break my silence and to say that everybody should give you a merit or two for it.    Tongue

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