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Author Topic: Lets play a game of Chess  (Read 160681 times)
abacus
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September 15, 2015, 08:29:54 AM
 #181

Let's take control of d file with Rfd1. Can't wait to open the battle with d4.

Sorry if my question is a little dense, I 'm not up with all the terminology, are you wanting to move the Rook on f1 to d1 or the Rook on a1 to d1?

The Rook on f1 to d1.

If I've well understood algebraic notation, this is what the f in Rfd1 states. With only one Rook left, a simple Rd1 would have been enough.
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September 15, 2015, 10:10:12 AM
 #182

Let's take control of d file with Rfd1. Can't wait to open the battle with d4.

Sorry if my question is a little dense, I 'm not up with all the terminology, are you wanting to move the Rook on f1 to d1 or the Rook on a1 to d1?

The Rook on f1 to d1.

If I've well understood algebraic notation, this is what the f in Rfd1 states. With only one Rook left, a simple Rd1 would have been enough.

Thanks - I don't think it's wise to remove the King's protection by moving that Rook.

My suggesting a4 was to enable the other Rook a chance to break out.

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September 15, 2015, 11:31:01 AM
Last edit: September 15, 2015, 02:40:22 PM by abacus
 #183

Thanks - I don't think it's wise to remove the King's protection by moving that Rook.

My suggesting a4 was to enable the other Rook a chance to break out.

If we move Rad1, we will weaken the a file, making the pawn road (a4) more difficult to defend.

About the King protection, both our Rooks are still on the first row and probably they'll remain there until there're so many pieces on the chessboard.
With Rfd1 I think we can consider the King still well defended in our crowded castle.
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September 15, 2015, 03:26:09 PM
 #184

So far we have four votes for a4 (Timelord2067, actmyname, languagehasmeaning, and Taras) and two votes for Rfd1 (abacus and myself). There is also one vote for Rac4 (jjacob), but that is not a legal move. We will wait until everyone's done debating a4 vs. Rfd1 and for jjacob to correct his vote before deciding.

It also looks like our esteemed opponent does not wish to confirm or deny that he is Bruzón Batista. I figured I was right.

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September 15, 2015, 04:12:42 PM
 #185

Rac4.
I would like to utilize the open c file immediately, rather than try opening the a file and then controlling it.
Don't you mean Rac1? Also, the c-file is only half-open (there's a black pawn on c5), and we can't open it by force. We should get behind the d-file with Rfd1.


Oops! I meant Rac1.
Hate to get the notation wrong. Embarrassed

My second choice is Rfd1. I am against a4 at this point of time.


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abacus
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September 15, 2015, 05:36:38 PM
 #186

So far we have four votes for a4 (Timelord2067, actmyname, languagehasmeaning, and Taras) and two votes for Rfd1 (abacus and myself). There is also one vote for Rac4 (jjacob), but that is not a legal move. We will wait until everyone's done debating a4 vs. Rfd1 and for jjacob to correct his vote before deciding.

We are 3-3 until now, languagehasmeaning switched to Rfd1.  Smiley

I would like to change my vote from a4 to Rfd1. It sounds like you agree with me that a4 does not accomplish much if black just responds with Qb6
letsplayagame (OP)
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September 15, 2015, 07:05:32 PM
Last edit: September 15, 2015, 07:19:29 PM by letsplayagame
 #187

So far we have four votes for a4 (Timelord2067, actmyname, languagehasmeaning, and Taras) and two votes for Rfd1 (abacus and myself). There is also one vote for Rac4 (jjacob), but that is not a legal move. We will wait until everyone's done debating a4 vs. Rfd1 and for jjacob to correct his vote before deciding.

It also looks like our esteemed opponent does not wish to confirm or deny that he is Bruzón Batista. I figured I was right.

I prefer not to confirm or deny every guess or I may reveal myself quickly.   However I can deny in this case since I already provided a clue that eliminated him as a possibility (based on current ratings):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148538.msg12179763#msg12179763

Interesting to see another tie vote! I will say that the next several moves for each side will be important in deciding the direction of the game. Keep considering not just your plan but the likely plan of your opponent.


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neochiny
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September 15, 2015, 08:31:16 PM
 #188

hehe... voting for Rfd1... it is the best move i can see...
a4 is useless for me... even if i am black..i can crash white when white do it...
 by the way is fine to use  fritz here? Tongue just asking.

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languagehasmeaning
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September 15, 2015, 09:59:32 PM
 #189

hehe... voting for Rfd1... it is the best move i can see...
a4 is useless for me... even if i am black..i can crash white when white do it...
 by the way is fine to use  fritz here? Tongue just asking.

He already said that some computer programs are already better than the best humans. So if you use a computer to beat him you have proven nothing and just wasted your time.
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September 16, 2015, 01:54:21 AM
 #190

any good chess gaming sites?
languagehasmeaning
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September 16, 2015, 03:18:02 AM
 #191

any good chess gaming sites?

Try to be more specific if you want advice other than what any search engine will reveal.

Chess.com and ChessClub.com are nice places to play

Chess24.com is good for live tournament analysis and commentary

There are many more. It depends on if you want to play, study openings, tactics, endgames, etc
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September 16, 2015, 03:51:08 AM
 #192

Question:

Should resigning be a valid move that we can vote on?

Obviously this is not a near term concern (the current position looks about equal to me) but IF the time comes (I hope we win) we should know in advance if its a valid option or if one person can force the game to be played all the way to checkmate.

Personally I think resigning should be allowed. Aside from a large troll invasion its not a realistic "threat" to our result unless we are obviously losing.
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September 16, 2015, 04:32:34 AM
 #193

So far we have four votes for a4 (Timelord2067, actmyname, languagehasmeaning, and Taras) and two votes for Rfd1 (abacus and myself). There is also one vote for Rac4 (jjacob), but that is not a legal move. We will wait until everyone's done debating a4 vs. Rfd1 and for jjacob to correct his vote before deciding.

We are 3-3 until now, languagehasmeaning switched to Rfd1.  Smiley
D'oh! I forgot about that. Embarrassed So now it's five votes for Rfd1 (languagehasmeaning, jjacob, abacus, neochiny, and myself) and three for a4 (Timeloard2067, actmyname, and Taras). I hope I've got it right this time.

However I can deny in this case since I already provided a clue that eliminated him as a possibility (based on current ratings):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148538.msg12179763#msg12179763
I forgot about that, too.

I will say that the next several moves for each side will be important in deciding the direction of the game. Keep considering not just your plan but the likely plan of your opponent.
Don't worry, I know how you have the whole game planned out. A few moves from now, there will be an epic battle on the queenside, which we will only barely survive due to you being a grandmaster, then you will sacrifice the exchange to bring pressure on our castled king with your bishops, nobody will listen to me when I explain this, everyone except me votes to accept the sacrifice, we resist futilely, and get mated. Is that pretty much how it's going to go down? No, that defeatist attitude won't do. We must win the queenside battle!

Question:

Should resigning be a valid move that we can vote on?

Obviously this is not a near term concern (the current position looks about equal to me) but IF the time comes (I hope we win) we should know in advance if its a valid option or if one person can force the game to be played all the way to checkmate.

Personally I think resigning should be allowed. Aside from a large troll invasion its not a realistic "threat" to our result unless we are obviously losing.
I feel resignation should be unanimous unless our position is proved to be losing (eg, by the Nalimov tablebases), since there's no possible way it can help us. If anyone wants to play out a non-trivial losing game, I have no objections.

I do think draws should be decided by popular vote, however. I propose the following rules for draws:

* Anyone who votes for a move that allows a draw by threefold repetition or the fifty-move rule should indicate whether or not they wish to claim the draw (drawing is not mandatory in these cases, but note that our opponent may claim the draw on his move if we don't). We draw if that move is chosen and the majority of those who voted for it wish to claim.

* Anyone who wishes to offer a draw must also vote for a move, as the opponent has the right to demand a move be made before deciding whether to accept the offer, and we'll look pretty silly if those offering a draw can't agree on a move. Anyone who votes for a move without offering a draw is presumed to be voting against the draw offer (though they can of course change their vote). We make the draw offer if the majority agrees to it, even if those voting for a draw offer voted for different moves.

* If letsplayagame offers a draw after making his move, those who wish to accept the offer should say so instead of voting for a move. The vote to accept a draw will be counted as though it were a move, ie, the draw is accepted if it has more votes than the most popular real move. If he offers a draw without making a move, anyone may demand that he make one, in which case no vote on the issue is valid until he does so.

Does that sound reasonable?

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September 16, 2015, 05:17:15 AM
 #194

So far we have four votes for a4 (Timelord2067, actmyname, languagehasmeaning, and Taras) and two votes for Rfd1 (abacus and myself). There is also one vote for Rac4 (jjacob), but that is not a legal move. We will wait until everyone's done debating a4 vs. Rfd1 and for jjacob to correct his vote before deciding.

We are 3-3 until now, languagehasmeaning switched to Rfd1.  Smiley
D'oh! I forgot about that. Embarrassed So now it's five votes for Rfd1 (languagehasmeaning, jjacob, abacus, neochiny, and myself) and three for a4 (Timeloard2067, actmyname, and Taras). I hope I've got it right this time.

However I can deny in this case since I already provided a clue that eliminated him as a possibility (based on current ratings):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148538.msg12179763#msg12179763
I forgot about that, too.

I will say that the next several moves for each side will be important in deciding the direction of the game. Keep considering not just your plan but the likely plan of your opponent.
Don't worry, I know how you have the whole game planned out. A few moves from now, there will be an epic battle on the queenside, which we will only barely survive due to you being a grandmaster, then you will sacrifice the exchange to bring pressure on our castled king with your bishops, nobody will listen to me when I explain this, everyone except me votes to accept the sacrifice, we resist futilely, and get mated. Is that pretty much how it's going to go down? No, that defeatist attitude won't do. We must win the queenside battle!

Question:

Should resigning be a valid move that we can vote on?

Obviously this is not a near term concern (the current position looks about equal to me) but IF the time comes (I hope we win) we should know in advance if its a valid option or if one person can force the game to be played all the way to checkmate.

Personally I think resigning should be allowed. Aside from a large troll invasion its not a realistic "threat" to our result unless we are obviously losing.
I feel resignation should be unanimous unless our position is proved to be losing (eg, by the Nalimov tablebases), since there's no possible way it can help us. If anyone wants to play out a non-trivial losing game, I have no objections.

I do think draws should be decided by popular vote, however. I propose the following rules for draws:

* Anyone who votes for a move that allows a draw by threefold repetition or the fifty-move rule should indicate whether or not they wish to claim the draw (drawing is not mandatory in these cases, but note that our opponent may claim the draw on his move if we don't). We draw if that move is chosen and the majority of those who voted for it wish to claim.

* Anyone who wishes to offer a draw must also vote for a move, as the opponent has the right to demand a move be made before deciding whether to accept the offer, and we'll look pretty silly if those offering a draw can't agree on a move. Anyone who votes for a move without offering a draw is presumed to be voting against the draw offer (though they can of course change their vote). We make the draw offer if the majority agrees to it, even if those voting for a draw offer voted for different moves.

* If letsplayagame offers a draw after making his move, those who wish to accept the offer should say so instead of voting for a move. The vote to accept a draw will be counted as though it were a move, ie, the draw is accepted if it has more votes than the most popular real move. If he offers a draw without making a move, anyone may demand that he make one, in which case no vote on the issue is valid until he does so.

Does that sound reasonable?

I think everything you said sounds reasonable with a possible exception of the Nalimov tablebase comment (proven perfect play/result of any position with 7 pieces or less for those that are curious about the definition). For example if we somehow end up down a rook and a bishop with many pieces remaining (no Nalimov tablebase) in a dull position (no counterplay) it seems silly to play to checkmate.  I am not saying that this is likely to happen, just that we may be better off resigning if it does and hoping he will agree to another game. Playing for stalemate for example seems ridiculous.

On the other hand if it ends up with king knight and bishop against king I say play to the end (even though Nalimov tablebase says we are lost)! Its not always easy to win in 50 moves and maybe we could learn something.
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September 16, 2015, 05:50:44 AM
 #195

I think everything you said sounds reasonable with a possible exception of the Nalimov tablebase comment (proven perfect play/result of any position with 7 pieces or less for those that are curious about the definition).
6 pieces. I just gave that as an example. A forced checkmate or conversion would also work. I wouldn't want to allow resignation if there's a realistic chance of drawing, put it that way.

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September 16, 2015, 06:30:27 AM
 #196

I think everything you said sounds reasonable with a possible exception of the Nalimov tablebase comment (proven perfect play/result of any position with 7 pieces or less for those that are curious about the definition).
6 pieces. I just gave that as an example. A forced checkmate or conversion would also work. I wouldn't want to allow resignation if there's a realistic chance of drawing, put it that way.

Sounds good. We are basically in agreement.

Its not a big deal but it does look like 7 is now the correct answer. I do remember when it was 6:

http://chessok.com/?page_id=27966
Endgame tablebases are computer databases of chess endings with precise calculations for optimal play in any position, provided the number of pieces on the board does nor exceed a certain limit. With Lomonosov Tablebases, this limit has gone up from 6 pieces to 7!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endgame_tablebase
By August 2012, tablebases had solved chess for every position with up to seven pieces (the positions with a lone king versus a king and five pieces were omitted because they were considered uninteresting).[1][2]
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September 16, 2015, 06:49:21 AM
 #197

Its not a big deal but it does look like 7 is now the correct answer. I do remember when it was 6:
I specifically mentioned the Nalimon tablebases because I don't have (and can't get) the Lomonosov tablebases - all up, they're 140 freaking terabytes!

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September 16, 2015, 03:55:29 PM
 #198

Still no decision?
I didn't expect consensus, but I expected a decision one way or the other.  Smiley


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letsplayagame (OP)
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September 17, 2015, 12:47:53 AM
 #199

So now it's five votes for Rfd1 (languagehasmeaning, jjacob, abacus, neochiny, and myself) and three for a4 (Timeloard2067, actmyname, and Taras). I hope I've got it right this time.

So has the community decided on Rfd1? Or are people still debating the choice?

Did anyone attend this event: https://scalingbitcoin.org/montreal2015/

It is something I have been thinking about more lately.

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September 17, 2015, 12:51:54 AM
 #200

So now it's five votes for Rfd1 (languagehasmeaning, jjacob, abacus, neochiny, and myself) and three for a4 (Timeloard2067, actmyname, and Taras). I hope I've got it right this time.

So has the community decided on Rfd1? Or are people still debating the choice?

I don't know why they're talking about how they're going to eventually surrender, my suggestion for a4 hasn't changed.

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