Suicide

[wxa7115]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

There is something called the law of unintended consequences. Basically states that every time you do something, outcomes that you do not expect may come to happen.

In the topic at hand, we have a law which was passed that made a particular religious practice illegal by making it the equivalent of suicide.

While it’s obvious that this ruling was made in order to try to avoid suicides, it’s possible that a perverse result gets to happen. Instead of people avoiding suicide you may have people opting to use a knife or a gun.

So instead of a decline of suicides you may get the opposite effect.

I'm not sure if the consequence is unintended.  I don't think that the primary reason for strict drug policy is to decrease drug use in society.  It was threatening industries like alcohol, tobacco, pharmaceutical, cotton, petroleum based products, etc.  It also allowed law enforcement to put minorities in prison.  The same idiot that primed alcohol prohibition eventually failed and then moved onto drugs (Henry Anslinger).

In the same way, if the government wants to minimize suicides, then they need to address the main issue, which is  - what is deteriorating the mental health of people in today's society and how can we help them?  If the best we can do is say "that's illegal dude", it's not really addressing anything.  Suicide is still taboo topic in North America and is not discussed.  Suicide is not even reported in the media.  When I used to take the subway to work, and someone would jump in front of the train, there would be an announcement saying that there is a delay due to "signalling issues".  We can't keep treating people like retarded children and expect a positive change.

I think that your interpretation is valid one, but since I was posting about unintended consequences, I did not want to enter too many variables in my post.

Like you said the main issue here is the raising in mental diseases in society in general(the real ones, not the fake ones created by pharma to earn money) and how are we going to treat them.

[pitham1]

The debate in India started because one of the High Courts banned the practice of Santhara by Jains.
The Supreme Court has now stepped in to allow it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Supreme-Court-permits-Jain-community-to-practice-Santhara/articleshow/48751751.cms?

[Hugroll]

Suicide is murder, even if it is only self-murder. "And you know that no murder has eternal life abiding in himself."

"Greater love has no man than to give up his life for his friends."

So, you see? Suicide with a valiant, honorable purpose may be right. But suicide for selfish, cowardly, and probably even illness reasons is wrong.

This life is short when compared with the way we can think. Eternal life is life with no end - the hereafter. Make your suicide choice wisely. You really don't want to spend eternity in Hell.

yep, i agree it doesnt matter what you did, trying to suicide shows that you have remorse for your actions and thats enough to justify your life.

[Possum577]

What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

[pitham1]

What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

It is the ultimate state of control and renunciation.
Of course, you can't do it until you have total control. A moment of weakness is all it takes to break your fast.

[bryant.coleman]

What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

According to the Jain scholars, Santhara leads to a form of Ahimsa (non-violence). This might seem like an oddity to followers of the Western religions, but for followers of Buddhism and Jainism, it is a path for completely cleaning your soul.

For outsiders, Jain religion can be full of surprises. A section of the Jains (Digambaras) refuse to wear any clothes, as they feel that being naked will make it easier for them to detach themselves from the outer world.

[pitham1]

What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

According to the Jain scholars, Santhara leads to a form of Ahimsa (non-violence). This might seem like an oddity to followers of the Western religions, but for followers of Buddhism and Jainism, it is a path for completely cleaning your soul.

For outsiders, Jain religion can be full of surprises. A section of the Jains (Digambaras) refuse to wear any clothes, as they feel that being naked will make it easier for them to detach themselves from the outer world.

Yes, many things seem like oddities to Westerners.
Some jains wear a face mask, to avoid inhaling/killing micro organisms.
But still, starving oneself to death must seem to be very strange to those who have not come across Jainism before.

[lahm-44]

lol..if a person himself wants to sucide then why the hell government or laws are interfaring in it :p thats so stupid like a person got arrested becase he talk to anyone strainger..I mean its not makes sence its his decisiin he can do whatever he wants

[bryant.coleman]

lol..if a person himself wants to sucide then why the hell government or laws are interfaring in it :p thats so stupid like a person got arrested becase he talk to anyone strainger..I mean its not makes sence its his decisiin he can do whatever he wants

The government and the authorities have the responsibility to help that person by offering the necessary psychiatric counselling or medication. There can be a number of reasons for someone attempting suicide. It can be due to medical issues, bullying or blackmail, harassment, financial troubles, family failure.etc.

[pitham1]

lol..if a person himself wants to sucide then why the hell government or laws are interfaring in it :p thats so stupid like a person got arrested becase he talk to anyone strainger..I mean its not makes sence its his decisiin he can do whatever he wants

The government and the authorities have the responsibility to help that person by offering the necessary psychiatric counselling or medication. There can be a number of reasons for someone attempting suicide. It can be due to medical issues, bullying or blackmail, harassment, financial troubles, family failure.etc.

Unfortunately, current (Indian) laws make it a crime to attempt suicide, punishable by a jail term of up to one year. The government is working towards removing this, but I guess it will take time.

[Pro_Crypto_Marty]

Suicide shouldn't be illegal I think mainly because there's no point. If someone checks out I don't really see what anyone can do about it.

But it's important to consider that a person wanting to commit suicide may be leaving behind certain debts or responsabilities that won't resolve themselves by their death and may affect other people negatively.

Their should minimally be a better framework for providing help to people who are committing suicide for the wrong reasons (i.e. terminal disease, escaping nazi torture chambers, philosophical opposition to being alive, or something like that...)

[freeyourmind]

lol..if a person himself wants to sucide then why the hell government or laws are interfaring in it :p thats so stupid like a person got arrested becase he talk to anyone strainger..I mean its not makes sence its his decisiin he can do whatever he wants

The government and the authorities have the responsibility to help that person by offering the necessary psychiatric counselling or medication. There can be a number of reasons for someone attempting suicide. It can be due to medical issues, bullying or blackmail, harassment, financial troubles, family failure.etc.

I wonder what would happen if a homeless man attempted to commit suicide.  Normally very few people give a shit about homeless people, and pass by them while their starving looking in the opposite direction.  When the dude starves to death, still no one gives a shit.  But when someone willingly takes their own life, it's a tragedy.

[pattu1]

I wonder what would happen if a homeless man attempted to commit suicide.  Normally very few people give a shit about homeless people, and pass by them while their starving looking in the opposite direction.  When the dude starves to death, still no one gives a shit.  But when someone willingly takes their own life, it's a tragedy.

That is the tragedy of this entire story.
If you starve to death, it is acceptable. If you fast to death, it is a crime.
I believe the government should be able to satisfy the basic needs of its citizens.

[freeyourmind]

I wonder what would happen if a homeless man attempted to commit suicide.  Normally very few people give a shit about homeless people, and pass by them while their starving looking in the opposite direction.  When the dude starves to death, still no one gives a shit.  But when someone willingly takes their own life, it's a tragedy.

That is the tragedy of this entire story.
If you starve to death, it is acceptable. If you fast to death, it is a crime.
I believe the government should be able to satisfy the basic needs of its citizens.

Well the government doesn't actually create any value, so the only way to provide basic needs would be to either tax the rest of the citizens or borrow it from future generations.  With the way the government currently spends money however, I think it would be pretty easy to do.  I've read somewhere that it would cost $30 billion to eliminate world hunger and the US spends $600 billion on their military each year so reallocating 1/30th of that budget would do wonders.

[operrajunk74]

I think that it is selfish under certain circumstances; they didn't tell anyone about their problems, and didn't offer anyone a chance to help them. That could make the parents or friends blame themselves for not seeing the problem. This could lead to a cluster suicide. I think that it isn't selfish and just thier choice if they have tried everything they could. I don't support suicide at all.

[pitham1]

I think that it is selfish under certain circumstances; they didn't tell anyone about their problems, and didn't offer anyone a chance to help them. That could make the parents or friends blame themselves for not seeing the problem. This could lead to a cluster suicide. I think that it isn't selfish and just thier choice if they have tried everything they could. I don't support suicide at all.

It could be termed escapism / selfishness even if they tried everything.
Santhara, however, is way, way different.

[freeyourmind]

I think that it is selfish under certain circumstances; they didn't tell anyone about their problems, and didn't offer anyone a chance to help them. That could make the parents or friends blame themselves for not seeing the problem. This could lead to a cluster suicide. I think that it isn't selfish and just thier choice if they have tried everything they could. I don't support suicide at all.

It could be termed escapism / selfishness even if they tried everything.
Santhara, however, is way, way different.

Everyone expresses their problems differently.  Some keep it to themselves and others are comfortable sharing.  The issue with sharing suicidal thoughts is the way you're going to be treated going forward.  People will treat you differently, and you will be advised to be medicated with psychoactive substances that will alter the way you think.  I can see why people in that situation would want to skip that process.

But in terms of friends and family - it would be best for friends and family if you find a way to close those relationships off before checking out, if there is enough planning that has gone into it and it's not just an impulsive decision.

[CoinFoxs]

Suicide is the act of intentionally causing one's own death. Suicide is often carried out as a result of despair, the cause of which is frequently attributed to a mental disorder such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, alcoholism, or drug abuse, as well as stress factors such as financial difficulties, troubles with interpersonal relationships, and bullying. Suicide prevention efforts include limiting access to method of suicide such as firearms and poisons, treating mental illness and drug misuse, and improving economic circumstances. Although crisis hotlines are common, there is little evidence for their effectiveness.



KARACHI: “All is fair in love and war” – a popular saying had its practical implication when a teenage schoolboy in Karachi committed suicide after his parents allegedly refused love-marriage.

http://arynews.tv/en/fallen-in-love-karachi-school-boy-shoots-girl-dead-later-kills-himself/

[iv4n]

" Suicide is just shortcut on the way we all going. "  some people want to get there sooner some later. Where is freedom of choice if u can't decide everything about yourself.

[pitham1]

KARACHI: “All is fair in love and war” – a popular saying had its practical implication when a teenage schoolboy in Karachi committed suicide after his parents allegedly refused love-marriage.

http://arynews.tv/en/fallen-in-love-karachi-school-boy-shoots-girl-dead-later-kills-himself/

This bloke shot the girl he was in love with and then shot himself.
The murder should be making headlines, not the suicide.