Suicide

[pitham1]

Santhara is a practice in Jainism where a person voluntarily gives up water and food and waits for death.
An Indian court has ruled that this was akin to suicide and therefore illegal.

http://scroll.in/article/748119/fasting-unto-death-for-religion-is-not-suicide-or-euthanasia-say-outraged-jains

[freeyourmind]

Santhara is a practice in Jainism where a person voluntarily gives up water and food and waits for death.
An Indian court has ruled that this was akin to suicide and therefore illegal.

http://scroll.in/article/748119/fasting-unto-death-for-religion-is-not-suicide-or-euthanasia-say-outraged-jains

I never understood what legality or policy or government or anyone for that matter has to do with the decision to commit suicide.  Once you choose to check out, who cares if it's against the law?

I find the way society views suicide to be very strange...as if it's the worst outcome and no one in their right mind would ever do it.  There are tons of people with a level of suffering that is difficult for others to understand, and it should absolutely be everyone's right to end their life if they choose to.  What's the point of going into palliative care, being pumped full of opiates, not being able to function mentally or physically and waiting until your heart stops beating?

[mookid]

One of my best friends committed suicide a month ago, a boy of 18 decided to end his life because he felt worthless, government's gives no shit about mental health care. Some people have illness that can be hard to understand or diagnose, like schizophrenia and others. I hope we can all raise awareness about this issues.

[bryant.coleman]

This is retarded. These sort of things can't be permitted under the banner of religion. If we permit suicide, then tomorrow someone will invent a new religion, and claim that raping women is a part of his religious belief. And as far as I can understand, attempt to suicide is a punishable offense under the Indian Penal Code (IPC).

[Sourgummies]

This is retarded. These sort of things can't be permitted under the banner of religion. If we permit suicide, then tomorrow someone will invent a new religion, and claim that raping women is a part of his religious belief. And as far as I can understand, attempt to suicide is a punishable offense under the Indian Penal Code (IPC).

Suicide is taking your life into your own hands. Rape is taking some one elses life into your hands
Religion already is the reason why suicide is ilegal, so I rather see a place where people can be set up to die, rather than jumping off a bridge .
Society needs to come to grips with some people not wanting to go through this journey. Baby boomers will change this aspect for us I think.
I have been through dark times, held a dying stranger from jumping off a bridge and saved a homeless man that changed his mind after jumping . My thinking will never change on this...My life, my choice.
The real issue is making sure people think it through and are given a safe place to die.

Jains have been around along ass time and predate this new moral code.

[cryptosmoker]

"The number of people executed in India since independence in 1947 is a matter of dispute; official government statistics claim that only 57 people had been executed since independence. However, available information from other sources indicates that the official government figures are false, and the actual number of executions in India may run to several thousand."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offenders_executed_in_India

[bryant.coleman]

"The number of people executed in India since independence in 1947 is a matter of dispute; official government statistics claim that only 57 people had been executed since independence. However, available information from other sources indicates that the official government figures are false, and the actual number of executions in India may run to several thousand."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offenders_executed_in_India

Has this anything to do with the topic?

Suicide is taking your life into your own hands. Rape is taking some one elses life into your hands
Religion already is the reason why suicide is ilegal, so I rather see a place where people can be set up to die, rather than jumping off a bridge .
Society needs to come to grips with some people not wanting to go through this journey. Baby boomers will change this aspect for us I think.
I have been through dark times, held a dying stranger from jumping off a bridge and saved a homeless man that changed his mind after jumping . My thinking will never change on this...My life, my choice.
The real issue is making sure people think it through and are given a safe place to die.

People who attempt suicide needs psychiatric counselling and help. In my opinion, it is not ethical to leave people who are prone to suicide on their own. My opinion has nothing to do with religion, as I am an atheist.

[xmaxbit]

Santhara is a practice in Jainism where a person voluntarily gives up water and food and waits for death.
An Indian court has ruled that this was akin to suicide and therefore illegal.

http://scroll.in/article/748119/fasting-unto-death-for-religion-is-not-suicide-or-euthanasia-say-outraged-jains

I never understood what legality or policy or government or anyone for that matter has to do with the decision to commit suicide.  Once you choose to check out, who cares if it's against the law?

I find the way society views suicide to be very strange...as if it's the worst outcome and no one in their right mind would ever do it.  There are tons of people with a level of suffering that is difficult for others to understand, and it should absolutely be everyone's right to end their life if they choose to.  What's the point of going into palliative care, being pumped full of opiates, not being able to function mentally or physically and waiting until your heart stops beating?

Let me help you understand this, law has been mad for SUICIDAL ATTEMPT and not just suicide. There are possibilities when a suicidal attempt may fail to complete. This attempt by any person may demoralize or demotivate some weak people in our society to commit the same which means a loss for the country in terms of man power and mind power. This law might inhibit some suicidal attempts.

[cryptosmoker]

Has this anything to do with the topic?

Just pointing out the irony in system allowing government to kill a person while prohibiting all persons from killing themselves.

[bryant.coleman]

Just pointing out the irony in system allowing government to kill a person while prohibiting all persons from killing themselves.

Death penalty in India is only given to the most barbaric of the crimes. And India very rarely executes its prisoners who are sentenced to death, with the average being less than one inmate per year, although hundreds are currently languishing in the death row. These people are executed for harming others. It is justified.

[pitham1]

This is retarded. These sort of things can't be permitted under the banner of religion. If we permit suicide, then tomorrow someone will invent a new religion, and claim that raping women is a part of his religious belief. And as far as I can understand, attempt to suicide is a punishable offense under the Indian Penal Code (IPC).

Laws are made by the Government. Religion is a touchy subject. The state of Rajasthan was arguing in favour of allowing Santhara.

After nine years of litigation – with the state of Rajasthan fighting as one of the respondents in support of the Jain community – the court eventually ordered that Santhara must be abolished and treated as a criminal offence of attempt to suicide

[otrkid70]

Suicide defies all of Natures basic instinct to survive....When a person wants to commit suicide there is something very wrong and Intervention should be there.

Humans are the only creature on the planet to Defy Natures natural programming....Survival is written in the Very core of every single creature.

We are either Very Gifted from God to overwrite nature or very Flawed....Which is it?

IMO: i Think if a person is having these thoughts they need Intervention and help.

[bryant.coleman]

Laws are made by the Government. Religion is a touchy subject. The state of Rajasthan was arguing in favour of allowing Santhara.

After nine years of litigation – with the state of Rajasthan fighting as one of the respondents in support of the Jain community – the court eventually ordered that Santhara must be abolished and treated as a criminal offence of attempt to suicide

I am not surprised. In general, the Indian political parties are afraid to alienate the religious lobbyists. The easiest way to lose in Indian election is to oppose some well known religious figure. Although Hindus and Jains are not as much united as the Christians and the Muslims, in certain pockets (such as parts of Rajasthan), they can swing large number of votes.

[PDaccseller]

if they want to die that's their problem.
one less human on earth and nobody can blame anyone for that. I'm not complaining.

[Sourgummies]

Suicide defies all of Natures basic instinct to survive....When a person wants to commit suicide there is something very wrong and Intervention should be there.

Humans are the only creature on the planet to Defy Natures natural programming....Survival is written in the Very core of every single creature.

We are either Very Gifted from God to overwrite nature or very Flawed....Which is it?

IMO: i Think if a person is having these thoughts they need Intervention and help.

The idea that nature does not have suicide has not really been studied. I could point to aspects of nature that are suicidal but its for a continuation of the species.
But you also mention "God" so I guess Its safe to presume you are working off a ideology from the bible.

The idea that suicide is wrong is from the bible,anyone that is against suicide is usually acting on that premise and may not know it. Its so deep routed like other Christian beliefs people pass it off like it is part of societies rules. Will do some research,recall reading something about suicide becoming a sin due to worry about it spreading. Ugh wish I could recall this!

Create a non-judgmental  haven for people to go to that offers support,medication if needed and at last resort a place to die in a safe comfortable manner.
We would have less people traumatized from seeing people commit suicide and would have a lot less distraught 911 calls that tie up the police. I consider that stance that suicide is wrong to be like the war on drugs,it is not working and its a stale way of thinking.

[otrkid70]

Suicide defies all of Natures basic instinct to survive....When a person wants to commit suicide there is something very wrong and Intervention should be there.

Humans are the only creature on the planet to Defy Natures natural programming....Survival is written in the Very core of every single creature.

We are either Very Gifted from God to overwrite nature or very Flawed....Which is it?

IMO: i Think if a person is having these thoughts they need Intervention and help.

The idea that nature does not have suicide has not really been studied. I could point to aspects of nature that are suicidal but its for a continuation of the species.
But you also mention "God" so I guess Its safe to presume you are working off a ideology from the bible.

The idea that suicide is wrong is from the bible,anyone that is against suicide is usually acting on that premise and may not know it. Its so deep routed like other Christian beliefs people pass it off like it is part of societies rules. Will do some research,recall reading something about suicide becoming a sin due to worry about it spreading. Ugh wish I could recall this!

Create a non-judgmental  haven for people to go to that offers support,medication if needed and at last resort a place to die in a safe comfortable manner.
We would have less people traumatized from seeing people commit suicide and would have a lot less distraught 911 calls that tie up the police. I consider that stance that suicide is wrong to be like the war on drugs,it is not working and its a stale way of thinking.

I'm not saying that people don't have a choice and of course if you are terminal you should be able to avoid suffering. As far as religion goes even if you take it out of the Equasion in nature there are no creatures committing suicide besides Man.

[cryptosmoker]

Just pointing out the irony in system allowing government to kill a person while prohibiting all persons from killing themselves.

Death penalty in India is only given to the most barbaric of the crimes. And India very rarely executes its prisoners who are sentenced to death, with the average being less than one inmate per year, although hundreds are currently languishing in the death row. These people are executed for harming others. It is justified.

You didn't even bother to read what I originally posted. 

[Sourgummies]

Suicide defies all of Natures basic instinct to survive....When a person wants to commit suicide there is something very wrong and Intervention should be there.

Humans are the only creature on the planet to Defy Natures natural programming....Survival is written in the Very core of every single creature.

We are either Very Gifted from God to overwrite nature or very Flawed....Which is it?

IMO: i Think if a person is having these thoughts they need Intervention and help.

The idea that nature does not have suicide has not really been studied. I could point to aspects of nature that are suicidal but its for a continuation of the species.
But you also mention "God" so I guess Its safe to presume you are working off a ideology from the bible.

The idea that suicide is wrong is from the bible,anyone that is against suicide is usually acting on that premise and may not know it. Its so deep routed like other Christian beliefs people pass it off like it is part of societies rules. Will do some research,recall reading something about suicide becoming a sin due to worry about it spreading. Ugh wish I could recall this!

Create a non-judgmental  haven for people to go to that offers support,medication if needed and at last resort a place to die in a safe comfortable manner.
We would have less people traumatized from seeing people commit suicide and would have a lot less distraught 911 calls that tie up the police. I consider that stance that suicide is wrong to be like the war on drugs,it is not working and its a stale way of thinking.

I'm not saying that people don't have a choice and of course if you are terminal you should be able to avoid suffering. As far as religion goes even if you take it out of the Equasion in nature there are no creatures committing suicide besides Man.

The debate about animals and suicide is still up in the air.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_suicide

http://news.discovery.com/animals/zoo-animals/animal-suicide-behavior.htm

The latter link is more interesting to read.

[Spendulus]

....

Create a non-judgmental  haven for people to go to that offers support,medication if needed and at last resort a place to die in a safe comfortable manner.
We would have less people traumatized from seeing people commit suicide and would have a lot less distraught 911 calls that tie up the police. I consider that stance that suicide is wrong to be like the war on drugs,it is not working and its a stale way of thinking.

That's the sort of idealistic dream that when reduced to the ugly reality of a government program, because nothing nice at all.  Soylet Green!  Yah!

[otrkid70]

....

Create a non-judgmental  haven for people to go to that offers support,medication if needed and at last resort a place to die in a safe comfortable manner.
We would have less people traumatized from seeing people commit suicide and would have a lot less distraught 911 calls that tie up the police. I consider that stance that suicide is wrong to be like the war on drugs,it is not working and its a stale way of thinking.

That's the sort of idealistic dream that when reduced to the ugly reality of a government program, because nothing nice at all.  Soylet Green!  Yah!

What's wrong with Soylent Green?  People will have to eat when us Humans have destroyed all animal and plant life and the Worlds population is 20 Billion.

In that Movie people were Encouraged to commit suicide. It meant another batch of Soylent Green.

[Sourgummies]

....

Create a non-judgmental  haven for people to go to that offers support,medication if needed and at last resort a place to die in a safe comfortable manner.
We would have less people traumatized from seeing people commit suicide and would have a lot less distraught 911 calls that tie up the police. I consider that stance that suicide is wrong to be like the war on drugs,it is not working and its a stale way of thinking.

That's the sort of idealistic dream that when reduced to the ugly reality of a government program, because nothing nice at all.  Soylet Green!  Yah!

That is the problem with suicide,it will always look like some one is leading people to die. Do not think we could put enough safe guards up to make it appear like it was just helping,always going to be a suspicious connection to it. One very vocal group are actually people with physical disabilities,they are afraid for that exact reason you point to.

[Spendulus]

....

Create a non-judgmental  haven for people to go to that offers support,medication if needed and at last resort a place to die in a safe comfortable manner.
We would have less people traumatized from seeing people commit suicide and would have a lot less distraught 911 calls that tie up the police. I consider that stance that suicide is wrong to be like the war on drugs,it is not working and its a stale way of thinking.

That's the sort of idealistic dream that when reduced to the ugly reality of a government program, because nothing nice at all.  Soylet Green!  Yah!

That is the problem with suicide,it will always look like some one is leading people to die. Do not think we could put enough safe guards up to make it appear like it was just helping,always going to be a suspicious connection to it. One very vocal group are actually people with physical disabilities,they are afraid for that exact reason you point to.

Safeguards?  Like what?  A procedure manual?

Look at the current controversy about Planned Parenthood and ask, why could they simply not stick to doing unqualified good?

[Sourgummies]

I have no idea what we would have to put in place to appease all groups. Most likely why few Countries want to discuss the topic.

[Spendulus]

I have no idea what we would have to put in place to appease all groups. Most likely why few Countries want to discuss the topic.

Anonymous Internet discussion groups would be my answer.

Exactly what most governments would not like or want.  Oh, and "appease all groups" is total bullshit - that's what's created this sanitized metrosexual politically correct atmosphere which is the problem, not the solution.

[pitham1]

if they want to die that's their problem.
one less human on earth and nobody can blame anyone for that. I'm not complaining.

It is their solution, not their problem. 
Unfortunately, most governments don't think like you.

[Sourgummies]

I have no idea what we would have to put in place to appease all groups. Most likely why few Countries want to discuss the topic.

Anonymous Internet discussion groups would be my answer.

Exactly what most governments would not like or want.  Oh, and "appease all groups" is total bullshit - that's what's created this sanitized metrosexual politically correct atmosphere which is the problem, not the solution.

But needed.  Suicides will continue no matter what fence we sit on. Best to support a humane way out than forcing people to die in such painful ways. Not to mention those that are unsucessful and are forced live a more limited life due to injury.
Metrosexual has nothing to do with suicide.q

[Spendulus]

I have no idea what we would have to put in place to appease all groups. Most likely why few Countries want to discuss the topic.

Anonymous Internet discussion groups would be my answer.

Exactly what most governments would not like or want.  Oh, and "appease all groups" is total bullshit - that's what's created this sanitized metrosexual politically correct atmosphere which is the problem, not the solution.

But needed.  Suicides will continue no matter what fence we sit on. Best to support a humane way out than forcing people to die in such painful ways. Not to mention those that are unsucessful and are forced live a more limited life due to injury.
Metrosexual has nothing to do with suicide.q

Bullshit.  I'll have to advise any of my friends that contemplate suicide to steer clear of any of your "appease all groups" committee decision making crap.

[Sourgummies]

I have no idea what we would have to put in place to appease all groups. Most likely why few Countries want to discuss the topic.

Anonymous Internet discussion groups would be my answer.

Exactly what most governments would not like or want.  Oh, and "appease all groups" is total bullshit - that's what's created this sanitized metrosexual politically correct atmosphere which is the problem, not the solution.

But needed.  Suicides will continue no matter what fence we sit on. Best to support a humane way out than forcing people to die in such painful ways. Not to mention those that are unsucessful and are forced live a more limited life due to injury.
Metrosexual has nothing to do with suicide.q

Bullshit.  I'll have to advise any of my friends that contemplate suicide to steer clear of any of your "appease all groups" committee decision making crap.

You are trolling me and I thought you would be above that .
You asked me to clarify and I did. Then you take a statement and twist it to get off on.
Anyone can see I stated " I have no idea what would appease all groups"! You took this to mean all groups need to be appeased. Its stating it would be near impossible to do. Sad I had to exlain that.

Will bow out of this discussion.

[TECSHARE]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

[freeyourmind]

Santhara is a practice in Jainism where a person voluntarily gives up water and food and waits for death.
An Indian court has ruled that this was akin to suicide and therefore illegal.

http://scroll.in/article/748119/fasting-unto-death-for-religion-is-not-suicide-or-euthanasia-say-outraged-jains

I never understood what legality or policy or government or anyone for that matter has to do with the decision to commit suicide.  Once you choose to check out, who cares if it's against the law?

I find the way society views suicide to be very strange...as if it's the worst outcome and no one in their right mind would ever do it.  There are tons of people with a level of suffering that is difficult for others to understand, and it should absolutely be everyone's right to end their life if they choose to.  What's the point of going into palliative care, being pumped full of opiates, not being able to function mentally or physically and waiting until your heart stops beating?

Let me help you understand this, law has been mad for SUICIDAL ATTEMPT and not just suicide. There are possibilities when a suicidal attempt may fail to complete. This attempt by any person may demoralize or demotivate some weak people in our society to commit the same which means a loss for the country in terms of man power and mind power. This law might inhibit some suicidal attempts.

So you think that because it's against the law, someone considering suicide will come to the conclusion that it's illegal and that will be the reason to not commit suicide?  Similar to the heroin addict that is going to go cold turkey because he found out using heroin is against the law...

If what you're saying actually works, then the countries that were the "toughest on crime" would have the lowest crime rates, and you can see that that is simply not the case.  If you don't address the root cause of why it's happening, then the problem isn't going to be solved, and you can't just stick a law in there to get the job done.

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

lol 

[BAGOBO]

Someone might to suicide mostly cause by an environment factor like even his/her family won't help his problem , he/she is atheist,etc

Also suicice cause by religion like terorist, they are ready to explode their self to accomplish their goal

[bojan92]

Suicide, everyone is a human being that can run his life in a way he or she wants. If you don't want to live anymore that do it that is your choice. In the Christianity, a suicide is a very bad thing, a priest won't come if you have committed suicide so you will burn in hell

[Trifixion713]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

HAHAHA!!! That's classic!

[BADecker]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

HAHAHA!!! That's classic!

But if you really want to be lawful about it, all you have to do is get away with it.

 

[otrkid70]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

This is FACT!  They don't wan't you to die because they can't steal any money from a dead person.

[BADecker]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

This is FACT!  They don't wan't you to die because they can't steal any money from a dead person.

Well, actually they can. But only this one last time. With the living, they do it over, and over, and over, ...

[Racey]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

That is so true, government takes out a policy on the day of your birth registration.

If you know of any one who is feeling suicidal, help them by any means to choose life instead.

[BADecker]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

That is so true, government takes out a policy on the day of your birth registration.

If you know of any one who is feeling suicidal, help them by any means to choose life instead.

File a UCC1 Form on your strawman, and take back your property from government.

[pitham1]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

Ha ha. That is an interesting point of view.
If only they allowed you to pay a "fine" and commit suicide, people would really start thinking before attempting such a step.

[blablahblah]

Suicide defies all of Natures basic instinct to survive....

And Nature defies your opinion.
Many species, including humans, have built-in mechanisms for the body to shut down and die in response to extreme pain or fear thereof. I see no evolutionary advantage for any living being to just "give up and die" when that so-called survival instinct could still save it. If anyone has an explanation for how dying of fright could be an evolutionary advantage, I'd like to hear it.

If death occurs prior to any actual blunt trauma or irreversible damage, this suggests some aspects of advanced intelligence, even in small animals with primitive reptilian brains, which flies in the face of idealist beliefs such as "humans are special" or "animals lack our intelligence".

If a small bird gets captured from the wild and it dies of fright, this indicates several things:
-it has the mental capacity to forecast future events, and make an estimate that it's about to get eaten or somehow brutally hurt.
-it has the capacity to extrapolate pain levels that it has never experienced.
-in order to have basic concepts like "getting eaten", the primitive bird brain must therefore have language structures to understand those things.
-it probably has an ego and a subconscious mind that protects it from unmanageable suffering by controlling the physiology of the body. The ego could even participate in deciding how long to fight for survival, and when to bail.

This raises further questions:
Why the heck should a subconscious mind (or just biological programming) inside an intelligent being give a shit about protecting/nurturing some immaterial ego when the entire system is about to crash?
The evidence in nature hints that certain beliefs about reincarnation or rebirth, or some other post-death growth, could be correct. A counter-argument could be that suicide is a completely different thing from survival in the animal kingdom, but I disagree. It's always associated with unmanageable suffering, some forecast that it will continue or get worse, and it's all about protecting the ego. "Taking action" to manage your own death is completely natural, given that we naturally evolved these large brains that decide to do weird things.

[otrkid70]

Suicide defies all of Natures basic instinct to survive....

And Nature defies your opinion.
Many species, including humans, have built-in mechanisms for the body to shut down and die in response to extreme pain or fear thereof. I see no evolutionary advantage for any living being to just "give up and die" when that so-called survival instinct could still save it. If anyone has an explanation for how dying of fright could be an evolutionary advantage, I'd like to hear it.

If death occurs prior to any actual blunt trauma or irreversible damage, this suggests some aspects of advanced intelligence, even in small animals with primitive reptilian brains, which flies in the face of idealist beliefs such as "humans are special" or "animals lack our intelligence".

If a small bird gets captured from the wild and it dies of fright, this indicates several things:
-it has the mental capacity to forecast future events, and make an estimate that it's about to get eaten or somehow brutally hurt.
-it has the capacity to extrapolate pain levels that it has never experienced.
-in order to have basic concepts like "getting eaten", the primitive bird brain must therefore have language structures to understand those things.
-it probably has an ego and a subconscious mind that protects it from unmanageable suffering by controlling the physiology of the body. The ego could even participate in deciding how long to fight for survival, and when to bail.

This raises further questions:
Why the heck should a subconscious mind (or just biological programming) inside an intelligent being give a shit about protecting/nurturing some immaterial ego when the entire system is about to crash?
The evidence in nature hints that certain beliefs about reincarnation or rebirth, or some other post-death growth, could be correct. A counter-argument could be that suicide is a completely different thing from survival in the animal kingdom, but I disagree. It's always associated with unmanageable suffering, some forecast that it will continue or get worse, and it's all about protecting the ego. "Taking action" to manage your own death is completely natural, given that we naturally evolved these large brains that decide to do weird things.

You can't compare a Decision of Ending your life (Suicide) with Dying of fright they are not even the same category. One is a decision the other is a chain reaction to a traumatic situation.

You don't see an elephant jumping off a cliff because he is depressed and the owner beats it.....the elephant simply kills the owner in a rampage.  Can you give an Example of a Creature other than Humans Deliberately Committing suicide?   I would really love to see an example of this because i'm curious as to why Humans are the only creature that does this.

[blablahblah]

You can't compare a Decision of Ending your life (Suicide) with Dying of fright they are not even the same category. One is a decision the other is a chain reaction to a traumatic situation.

You don't see an elephant jumping off a cliff because he is depressed and the owner beats it.....the elephant simply kills the owner in a rampage.  Can you give an Example of a Creature other than Humans Deliberately Committing suicide?

The examples are just limited by your imagination. Animals often stand on roads. Why do people always assume that the animals are stupid or naive? If they're in a herd and getting chased by a predator, why assume that it's lack of fitness or bad genes if one of them runs more slowly? Maybe they're less motivated?

We invent these narratives that sick animals isolate themselves from the herd because they're just evolutionary zombies that have been programmed to protect the herd against diseases. But they could also be suffering, and deliberately exposing themselves to predators. While I think evolutionary theories and modern biology have contributed a lot to science, I also think they've been manipulated by Christian dogma.

To calling dying of fright a "chain reaction" is to rely on various beliefs about how things work.

[otrkid70]

You can't compare a Decision of Ending your life (Suicide) with Dying of fright they are not even the same category. One is a decision the other is a chain reaction to a traumatic situation.

You don't see an elephant jumping off a cliff because he is depressed and the owner beats it.....the elephant simply kills the owner in a rampage.  Can you give an Example of a Creature other than Humans Deliberately Committing suicide?

The examples are just limited by your imagination. Animals often stand on roads. Why do people always assume that the animals are stupid or naive? If they're in a herd and getting chased by a predator, why assume that it's lack of fitness or bad genes if one of them runs more slowly? Maybe they're less motivated?

We invent these narratives that sick animals isolate themselves from the herd because they're just evolutionary zombies that have been programmed to protect the herd against diseases. But they could also be suffering, and deliberately exposing themselves to predators. While I think evolutionary theories and modern biology have contributed a lot to science, I also think they've been manipulated by Christian dogma.

To calling dying of fright a "chain reaction" is to rely on various beliefs about how things work.

You make great points. But i do think dying of fright is classified as suicide. I still think it's trauma and bad genetics.  People/Animals get scared all the time but almost all survive the situation with the exception of a few. Animals understand that a predator wishes to do them harm that's why they run....I think your statement would stick if the Animal just sat there as the predator ate it. Then i would Classify it as suicide.

[PaoloSerBit]

In my opinion, under some circumstances, the sucide isn´t the worst choice a person can make. I don´t understand all those negative actions regarding it. I believe everyone should have right to do what he wants with his life as long as he doesn´t hurt the others.
The way of dying as presented in the first post is terryfing. That´s a terrible death to die of dehydration.   

[BADecker]

Suicide is murder, even if it is only self-murder. "And you know that no murder has eternal life abiding in himself."

"Greater love has no man than to give up his life for his friends."

So, you see? Suicide with a valiant, honorable purpose may be right. But suicide for selfish, cowardly, and probably even illness reasons is wrong.

This life is short when compared with the way we can think. Eternal life is life with no end - the hereafter. Make your suicide choice wisely. You really don't want to spend eternity in Hell.

[Racey]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

That is so true, government takes out a policy on the day of your birth registration.

If you know of any one who is feeling suicidal, help them by any means to choose life instead.

File a UCC1 Form on your strawman, and take back your property from government.

I am not sure this can be done in the UK let me know if otherwise, thanks.

Aslo I would love for once, not to see any mail dropping through my letter box with name in all CAPS= they own you.

Very good article on the subject

I believe Japan in very tolerant with suicides, It is reported that there are over 30,000 suicides every year in Japan with middle aged Japanese men are more likely to be at risk. This is a very sad reality created by modern Japan and there are a couple of issues that need to be fixed in order to reduce the number of suicidal people

[BADecker]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

That is so true, government takes out a policy on the day of your birth registration.

If you know of any one who is feeling suicidal, help them by any means to choose life instead.

File a UCC1 Form on your strawman, and take back your property from government.

I am not sure this can be done in the UK let me know if otherwise, thanks.

Aslo I would love for once, not to see any mail dropping through my letter box with name in all CAPS= they own you.

Very good article on the subject

I believe Japan in very tolerant with suicides, It is reported that there are over 30,000 suicides every year in Japan with middle aged Japanese men are more likely to be at risk. This is a very sad reality created by modern Japan and there are a couple of issues that need to be fixed in order to reduce the number of suicidal people

It can be done in the UK. I have not a clue as to how, but...

Since they connect you to the all caps name, they must have a reason for connecting. Do you have something like a birth certificate over there? This is where it all starts. From then on, all your "agreements" with government are through the "PERSON" created by your birth certificate. In some cases additional PERSONs are conjured up that are subservient to your original one.

As long as you don't know about it, you can't do anything about it except by accident. If you do it by accident, chance are you won't know what has been done.

They have to base the strawman on a real person. Otherwise they could simply go and create as many "people" as they wanted and rule the world. Since the all caps PERSON is based on a human being, the human is the one who has interest in it beyond all others. If the human doesn't pick up and use his interest, it is up to government to use and control the interest.

In the US, the UCC is a shortcut to laws that have been recognized over decades of use, in such a way that the UCC has actually become law. If every UCC book dropped off the face of the planet, we could still operate by going back to the original laws that the UCC is founded on. It would simply be a more laborious process.

Does the UK have a counterpart of the UCC? If it does, you can use it similarly. If it doesn't, simply find the laws in the UCC, and find their counterparts in UK law.

The most important thing to remember and study is common law and Queens Bench. At Queens Bench you go to court as a man and can require to have a man face you. The British government is not a man. They cannot face you. Their attorneys aren't going to speak in common language. They lose.

Consider Karl Lentz - http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/. Karl isn't big on UCC stuff. But he is big on common law and the interest you have in something that is your property over the interest any other man or government has in it.

[foxbitcoin]

High rates of suicide in a society should be viewed as a failure of the society and their inability to identify and treat mental illness. Suicide will never be a problem that is 100% treatable, but if there are systems in place to help people who are struggling, then the problem would be severely reduced.

[blablahblah]

...To calling dying of fright a "chain reaction" is to rely on various beliefs about how things work.

You make great points. But i do think dying of fright is classified as suicide. I still think it's trauma and bad genetics.  People/Animals get scared all the time but almost all survive the situation with the exception of a few. Animals understand that a predator wishes to do them harm that's why they run....I think your statement would stick if the Animal just sat there as the predator ate it. Then i would Classify it as suicide.

Well, for anyone who *hasn't* died of fright, we can only speculate about death's nature, and whether it is or isn't a choice. I think that the existence of the 'self' is fundamentally tied to an ongoing need for some entity (the ego) to intervene and make decisions in life, including when to die.

The human ego has an incredible capacity to fool itself, taking risks -- literally risking death in some cases -- and putting itself in harm's way. How many intelligent people have wilfully ignored exhaustion and "accidentally" drowned? Or crashed while driving at excessive speeds for fun? Or OD'd because they guesstimated that their drugs were more diluted? Probably millions around the world every year. But none of it counts. It only counts as suicide when death occurs, it's symbolic and ostentatious, and probably presented with a note to loved ones, which may or may not make nice reading.

How do we distinguish between stupidity and deliberate suicidal behaviour? Is 'stupidity' just another narrative that observers invent in order to rationalise our fear of the unknown?

And what about all the people who knowingly risk death but survive? Daredevils? Or maybe we're just witnessing one of many possible worlds, and in this case they were lucky? Does survival against the odds make someone smarter or less suicidal?

^Open questions. I don't claim to have all the answers. Challenges welcome.

[BADecker]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

[blablahblah]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Genetics = I think it's wrong, therefore it must be bad programming.
lack of nutrition = programming error.
poisoning = programming error.

None of those options acknowledge an individual's ultimate sovereignty. They're either a slave to some deeper program, or a victim of chance. If those are the only options, then there's no such thing as suicide.

[BADecker]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Genetics = I think it's wrong, therefore it must be bad programming.
lack of nutrition = programming error.
poisoning = programming error.

None of those options acknowledge an individual's ultimate sovereignty. They're either a slave to some deeper program, or a victim of chance. If those are the only options, then there's no such thing as suicide.

The word was "tendencies." We all have suicidal tendencies at least a tiny bit, built into the genes. In fact, the medical doesn't understand why we die of old age. We have the ability to fight off every disease and sickness. It might be the genetic suicidal tendencies that do us all in at old age.

Good nutrition, free from poison, lets the body remain cheerful. Where there is a cheerful body, some of that cheer will rub off on the mind. After all, there aren't many sane and sober people who suicide themselves with a big fat smile on their face because life is so great.

Good nutrition and lack of pollution poison might be just the thing that keeps a genetically suicidal person happy enough to overpower his suicide tendencies.

[roadbits]

There needs to be more help and better help available to those who are in need. That might lower the rate of suicide among citizens. Of course nothing would completely eradicate suicide but there should be more help available.

[maku]

Suicide is a form of sickness of a mind. It should not be allowed. I am really against limiting the laws of humans to decide about their own fate and body.
But I gotta agree that suicide is not normal and usually is just effect of some trauma, stress, physical sickness and in many causes these problems can be eliminated.

[jayce]

Could drugs overdose be counted as a suicide, since they still do drugs although they have known the side effect of that? I'm really curious about this.

[ObscureBean]

Santhara is a practice in Jainism where a person voluntarily gives up water and food and waits for death.
An Indian court has ruled that this was akin to suicide and therefore illegal.

http://scroll.in/article/748119/fasting-unto-death-for-religion-is-not-suicide-or-euthanasia-say-outraged-jains

I never understood what legality or policy or government or anyone for that matter has to do with the decision to commit suicide.  Once you choose to check out, who cares if it's against the law?

I find the way society views suicide to be very strange...as if it's the worst outcome and no one in their right mind would ever do it.  There are tons of people with a level of suffering that is difficult for others to understand, and it should absolutely be everyone's right to end their life if they choose to.  What's the point of going into palliative care, being pumped full of opiates, not being able to function mentally or physically and waiting until your heart stops beating?

You'll understand if you decide to venture further down the rabbit hole  


It seems a lot of people here cannot imagine ever committing suicide, well let me assure you that there are infinite scenarios that would see any human begging to be allowed to take his/her own life. If you can't think of any such scenarios right now that would be applicable to you, you should count yourself lucky and not get cocky

Your physical body is the only thing that truly belongs to you but if you play your cards right you may just find yourself deprived of the only real choice you've ever had or ever going to have

BTW I am neither for nor against suicide.

[darkangel11]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Imagine a situation where you lose all you have in 1 day: your house burns down with your whole family and all your possessions inside. It might trigger a depression and fear so great that you'd want to die and it would have nothing to do with genetics, lack of nutrition or poisoning.

[BADecker]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Imagine a situation where you lose all you have in 1 day: your house burns down with your whole family and all your possessions inside. It might trigger a depression and fear so great that you'd want to die and it would have nothing to do with genetics, lack of nutrition or poisoning.

Imagine, after all that, going over to a green juice soda fountain, and drowning your sorrows in a healthy, herbal juice drink, filled with mega doses of vitamins and minerals and amino acids, etc. (including EDTA which removes heavy metals from your system), so that you come out of there feeling like you could conquer the world. You have never felt like this. You wonder how in the world you could have ever felt suicidal. You are aware of your losses, but you know that NOTHING can stop you from starting over and making things a whole lot better this time.

[Sourgummies]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Imagine a situation where you lose all you have in 1 day: your house burns down with your whole family and all your possessions inside. It might trigger a depression and fear so great that you'd want to die and it would have nothing to do with genetics, lack of nutrition or poisoning.

Imagine, after all that, going over to a green juice soda fountain, and drowning your sorrows in a healthy, herbal juice drink, filled with mega doses of vitamins and minerals and amino acids, etc. (including EDTA which removes heavy metals from your system), so that you come out of there feeling like you could conquer the world. You have never felt like this. You wonder how in the world you could have ever felt suicidal. You are aware of your losses, but you know that NOTHING can stop you from starting over and making things a whole lot better this time.

Lack of understanding in how the brain operates in a depressed state. People do not snap out of it like a hypnotist ending a act.

[andysbizz]

I think they did the right thing is illegal, but it is unlikely they will be able to monitor the implementation of this law. If a person has decided to die in this way, it will achieve this by deception like anorexic.

[pitham1]

Lack of understanding in how the brain operates in a depressed state. People do not snap out of it like a hypnotist ending a act.

Suicidal tendencies are usually impulsive. If the moment passes, many people would have resumed their normal lives.

[jayce]

How about a prisoner who get death sentence, and right before the execution, he does suicide to avoid that execution. Is that a wrong thing then since he just advancing his death?

[PaoloSerBit]

He may feel that thanks to committing suicide he chooses the exact moment he dies and that he somehow free himself from the influence of others  in the last moments of his life

[ummina]

may be cause this too Not suicide, not euthanasia

Jains are particularly offended by the comparisons drawn between Santhara, suicide and euthanasia.

“People commit suicide when they are fed up with the world or are deeply disturbed mentally,” said Raju Vaiyavach, a Jain businessman from Mumbai. “But taking Santhara required tremendous inner strength. It is about uniting with one’s antaraatma [inner soul], it is not about dying.”

In his petition against Santhara, Nikhil Soni had also invoked the Supreme Court’s 2011 judgement in the Aruna Shanbaug case, which legalised passive euthanasia but emphasised that active euthanasia or assisted suicide is illegal. If such euthanasia could not be allowed, Soni argued, Santhara too could not be legal.

But Dhanwant Shah, president of Mumbai’s Jain Yuvak Sangh, believes there is a fine distinction between the two. “The aim of euthanasia is to be free from misery, which is a desire. Santhara is about the end of all desire.”

[panju1]

How about a prisoner who get death sentence, and right before the execution, he does suicide to avoid that execution. Is that a wrong thing then since he just advancing his death?

Death row prisoners are usually closely guarded. Any harm to them would result in blame being pinned on the prison guards.
But technically, it wouldn't matter.

[Santoso]

That is just too scary  . I just still don't understand why people decide to commit suicide for any reason. Every problem has solution how stressful or depressing it is 
Just be positive and keep faith that everything happens for a reason. A good reason.
I am against suicide. Moreover such a suicide bombing. It's just like one person who has a problem with his only life but tens of people are "forced" to feel the same. Something like that

[popcorn1]

That is just too scary  . I just still don't understand why people decide to commit suicide for any reason. Every problem has solution how stressful or depressing it is 
Just be positive and keep faith that everything happens for a reason. A good reason.
I am against suicide. Moreover such a suicide bombing. It's just like one person who has a problem with his only life but tens of people are "forced" to feel the same. Something like that

suicide can take many forms most bad but some needed
got to be in a dark place to do it..and no not at night in your mind

the worst suicide is if you don.t check a coin out called R3D COIN it a must to own if you don.t check it out
you will kill yourself for missing it 

go check wont hurt to look R3D COIN

[wxa7115]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

[jayce]

How about a prisoner who get death sentence, and right before the execution, he does suicide to avoid that execution. Is that a wrong thing then since he just advancing his death?

Death row prisoners are usually closely guarded. Any harm to them would result in blame being pinned on the prison guards.
But technically, it wouldn't matter.

I got an article about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Johnson_(criminal)
Yeah, I think it wouldn't matter, which he just quickened his death sentence. But be executed is better than suicide imo

[pitham1]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

[pinball8]

what going on there?
i believe there is manipulator on this situation and take profit from this accident.
the government should search more about this.

[freeyourmind]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

[BADecker]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

Remember. To accurately think along these lines regarding Colorado and Washington, it is still federally illegal there, with the feds doing something about it at times.

[freeyourmind]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

Remember. To accurately think along these lines regarding Colorado and Washington, it is still federally illegal there, with the feds doing something about it at times.

Yeah you're right about that.  Regardless, the point I was making is that making something illegal doesn't necessarily cause people to stop doing it.

[wxa7115]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

There is something called the law of unintended consequences. Basically states that every time you do something, outcomes that you do not expect may come to happen.

In the topic at hand, we have a law which was passed that made a particular religious practice illegal by making it the equivalent of suicide.

While it’s obvious that this ruling was made in order to try to avoid suicides, it’s possible that a perverse result gets to happen. Instead of people avoiding suicide you may have people opting to use a knife or a gun.

So instead of a decline of suicides you may get the opposite effect.

[klf]

I don't think legalizing or not of suicide would make much of a difference in the number of people who actually go through with it. Those who really want to go through with it don't give a crap about the law.

[valvalis]

I had a friend who had tried to commit suicide. She told me about why she decided to commit suicide. She felt very lonely and feel no one can help overcome the problems she faces. So I think we should always be kind to everyone and try to help anyone who needs help. We might have prevented someone to commit suicide by being nice.

[panju1]

I don't think legalizing or not of suicide would make much of a difference in the number of people who actually go through with it. Those who really want to go through with it don't give a crap about the law.

Their response can be - So sue me once I am dead. 

[pitham1]

This is the Jains' view on Santhara.
Makes for interesting reading.

Suicide is a desperate measure, triggered by failure and setbacks in life; it is an act of cowardice, a surrender to the circumstance because of lack of will power. It is a decision forced upon the person by external circumstances. According to the Jains, Santhara is the exact opposite of this.

In one of his discourses, Osho Rajneesh had tried to differentiate between death as a spiritual discipline and suicide. "Mahavira says, 'Go on a fast, and die of hunger.' It takes ninety days for a normal, healthy person to die of hunger. If he is weak in resolve--even a little bit--the desire for food will return the next day... If Mahavira had given the permission to die by taking poison, drowning in a river, jumping off a mountain, it would have been a matter of instant death. But a warrior good for showing only a moment's bravery is of no use in the battlefield, because he will become a coward the next moment...So Mahavira has given permission to commit santhara, causing death to oneself as a spiritual discipline."

[freeyourmind]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

There is something called the law of unintended consequences. Basically states that every time you do something, outcomes that you do not expect may come to happen.

In the topic at hand, we have a law which was passed that made a particular religious practice illegal by making it the equivalent of suicide.

While it’s obvious that this ruling was made in order to try to avoid suicides, it’s possible that a perverse result gets to happen. Instead of people avoiding suicide you may have people opting to use a knife or a gun.

So instead of a decline of suicides you may get the opposite effect.

I'm not sure if the consequence is unintended.  I don't think that the primary reason for strict drug policy is to decrease drug use in society.  It was threatening industries like alcohol, tobacco, pharmaceutical, cotton, petroleum based products, etc.  It also allowed law enforcement to put minorities in prison.  The same idiot that primed alcohol prohibition eventually failed and then moved onto drugs (Henry Anslinger).

In the same way, if the government wants to minimize suicides, then they need to address the main issue, which is  - what is deteriorating the mental health of people in today's society and how can we help them?  If the best we can do is say "that's illegal dude", it's not really addressing anything.  Suicide is still taboo topic in North America and is not discussed.  Suicide is not even reported in the media.  When I used to take the subway to work, and someone would jump in front of the train, there would be an announcement saying that there is a delay due to "signalling issues".  We can't keep treating people like retarded children and expect a positive change.

[wxa7115]

It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

There is something called the law of unintended consequences. Basically states that every time you do something, outcomes that you do not expect may come to happen.

In the topic at hand, we have a law which was passed that made a particular religious practice illegal by making it the equivalent of suicide.

While it’s obvious that this ruling was made in order to try to avoid suicides, it’s possible that a perverse result gets to happen. Instead of people avoiding suicide you may have people opting to use a knife or a gun.

So instead of a decline of suicides you may get the opposite effect.

I'm not sure if the consequence is unintended.  I don't think that the primary reason for strict drug policy is to decrease drug use in society.  It was threatening industries like alcohol, tobacco, pharmaceutical, cotton, petroleum based products, etc.  It also allowed law enforcement to put minorities in prison.  The same idiot that primed alcohol prohibition eventually failed and then moved onto drugs (Henry Anslinger).

In the same way, if the government wants to minimize suicides, then they need to address the main issue, which is  - what is deteriorating the mental health of people in today's society and how can we help them?  If the best we can do is say "that's illegal dude", it's not really addressing anything.  Suicide is still taboo topic in North America and is not discussed.  Suicide is not even reported in the media.  When I used to take the subway to work, and someone would jump in front of the train, there would be an announcement saying that there is a delay due to "signalling issues".  We can't keep treating people like retarded children and expect a positive change.

I think that your interpretation is valid one, but since I was posting about unintended consequences, I did not want to enter too many variables in my post.

Like you said the main issue here is the raising in mental diseases in society in general(the real ones, not the fake ones created by pharma to earn money) and how are we going to treat them.

[pitham1]

The debate in India started because one of the High Courts banned the practice of Santhara by Jains.
The Supreme Court has now stepped in to allow it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Supreme-Court-permits-Jain-community-to-practice-Santhara/articleshow/48751751.cms?

[Hugroll]

Suicide is murder, even if it is only self-murder. "And you know that no murder has eternal life abiding in himself."

"Greater love has no man than to give up his life for his friends."

So, you see? Suicide with a valiant, honorable purpose may be right. But suicide for selfish, cowardly, and probably even illness reasons is wrong.

This life is short when compared with the way we can think. Eternal life is life with no end - the hereafter. Make your suicide choice wisely. You really don't want to spend eternity in Hell.

yep, i agree it doesnt matter what you did, trying to suicide shows that you have remorse for your actions and thats enough to justify your life.

[Possum577]

What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

[pitham1]

What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

It is the ultimate state of control and renunciation.
Of course, you can't do it until you have total control. A moment of weakness is all it takes to break your fast.

[bryant.coleman]

What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

According to the Jain scholars, Santhara leads to a form of Ahimsa (non-violence). This might seem like an oddity to followers of the Western religions, but for followers of Buddhism and Jainism, it is a path for completely cleaning your soul.

For outsiders, Jain religion can be full of surprises. A section of the Jains (Digambaras) refuse to wear any clothes, as they feel that being naked will make it easier for them to detach themselves from the outer world.

[pitham1]

What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

According to the Jain scholars, Santhara leads to a form of Ahimsa (non-violence). This might seem like an oddity to followers of the Western religions, but for followers of Buddhism and Jainism, it is a path for completely cleaning your soul.

For outsiders, Jain religion can be full of surprises. A section of the Jains (Digambaras) refuse to wear any clothes, as they feel that being naked will make it easier for them to detach themselves from the outer world.

Yes, many things seem like oddities to Westerners.
Some jains wear a face mask, to avoid inhaling/killing micro organisms.
But still, starving oneself to death must seem to be very strange to those who have not come across Jainism before.

[lahm-44]

lol..if a person himself wants to sucide then why the hell government or laws are interfaring in it :p thats so stupid like a person got arrested becase he talk to anyone strainger..I mean its not makes sence its his decisiin he can do whatever he wants

[bryant.coleman]

lol..if a person himself wants to sucide then why the hell government or laws are interfaring in it :p thats so stupid like a person got arrested becase he talk to anyone strainger..I mean its not makes sence its his decisiin he can do whatever he wants

The government and the authorities have the responsibility to help that person by offering the necessary psychiatric counselling or medication. There can be a number of reasons for someone attempting suicide. It can be due to medical issues, bullying or blackmail, harassment, financial troubles, family failure.etc.

[pitham1]

lol..if a person himself wants to sucide then why the hell government or laws are interfaring in it :p thats so stupid like a person got arrested becase he talk to anyone strainger..I mean its not makes sence its his decisiin he can do whatever he wants

The government and the authorities have the responsibility to help that person by offering the necessary psychiatric counselling or medication. There can be a number of reasons for someone attempting suicide. It can be due to medical issues, bullying or blackmail, harassment, financial troubles, family failure.etc.

Unfortunately, current (Indian) laws make it a crime to attempt suicide, punishable by a jail term of up to one year. The government is working towards removing this, but I guess it will take time.

[Pro_Crypto_Marty]

Suicide shouldn't be illegal I think mainly because there's no point. If someone checks out I don't really see what anyone can do about it.

But it's important to consider that a person wanting to commit suicide may be leaving behind certain debts or responsabilities that won't resolve themselves by their death and may affect other people negatively.

Their should minimally be a better framework for providing help to people who are committing suicide for the wrong reasons (i.e. terminal disease, escaping nazi torture chambers, philosophical opposition to being alive, or something like that...)

[freeyourmind]

lol..if a person himself wants to sucide then why the hell government or laws are interfaring in it :p thats so stupid like a person got arrested becase he talk to anyone strainger..I mean its not makes sence its his decisiin he can do whatever he wants

The government and the authorities have the responsibility to help that person by offering the necessary psychiatric counselling or medication. There can be a number of reasons for someone attempting suicide. It can be due to medical issues, bullying or blackmail, harassment, financial troubles, family failure.etc.

I wonder what would happen if a homeless man attempted to commit suicide.  Normally very few people give a shit about homeless people, and pass by them while their starving looking in the opposite direction.  When the dude starves to death, still no one gives a shit.  But when someone willingly takes their own life, it's a tragedy.

[pattu1]

I wonder what would happen if a homeless man attempted to commit suicide.  Normally very few people give a shit about homeless people, and pass by them while their starving looking in the opposite direction.  When the dude starves to death, still no one gives a shit.  But when someone willingly takes their own life, it's a tragedy.

That is the tragedy of this entire story.
If you starve to death, it is acceptable. If you fast to death, it is a crime.
I believe the government should be able to satisfy the basic needs of its citizens.

[freeyourmind]

I wonder what would happen if a homeless man attempted to commit suicide.  Normally very few people give a shit about homeless people, and pass by them while their starving looking in the opposite direction.  When the dude starves to death, still no one gives a shit.  But when someone willingly takes their own life, it's a tragedy.

That is the tragedy of this entire story.
If you starve to death, it is acceptable. If you fast to death, it is a crime.
I believe the government should be able to satisfy the basic needs of its citizens.

Well the government doesn't actually create any value, so the only way to provide basic needs would be to either tax the rest of the citizens or borrow it from future generations.  With the way the government currently spends money however, I think it would be pretty easy to do.  I've read somewhere that it would cost $30 billion to eliminate world hunger and the US spends $600 billion on their military each year so reallocating 1/30th of that budget would do wonders.

[operrajunk74]

I think that it is selfish under certain circumstances; they didn't tell anyone about their problems, and didn't offer anyone a chance to help them. That could make the parents or friends blame themselves for not seeing the problem. This could lead to a cluster suicide. I think that it isn't selfish and just thier choice if they have tried everything they could. I don't support suicide at all.

[pitham1]

I think that it is selfish under certain circumstances; they didn't tell anyone about their problems, and didn't offer anyone a chance to help them. That could make the parents or friends blame themselves for not seeing the problem. This could lead to a cluster suicide. I think that it isn't selfish and just thier choice if they have tried everything they could. I don't support suicide at all.

It could be termed escapism / selfishness even if they tried everything.
Santhara, however, is way, way different.

[freeyourmind]

I think that it is selfish under certain circumstances; they didn't tell anyone about their problems, and didn't offer anyone a chance to help them. That could make the parents or friends blame themselves for not seeing the problem. This could lead to a cluster suicide. I think that it isn't selfish and just thier choice if they have tried everything they could. I don't support suicide at all.

It could be termed escapism / selfishness even if they tried everything.
Santhara, however, is way, way different.

Everyone expresses their problems differently.  Some keep it to themselves and others are comfortable sharing.  The issue with sharing suicidal thoughts is the way you're going to be treated going forward.  People will treat you differently, and you will be advised to be medicated with psychoactive substances that will alter the way you think.  I can see why people in that situation would want to skip that process.

But in terms of friends and family - it would be best for friends and family if you find a way to close those relationships off before checking out, if there is enough planning that has gone into it and it's not just an impulsive decision.

[CoinFoxs]

Suicide is the act of intentionally causing one's own death. Suicide is often carried out as a result of despair, the cause of which is frequently attributed to a mental disorder such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, alcoholism, or drug abuse, as well as stress factors such as financial difficulties, troubles with interpersonal relationships, and bullying. Suicide prevention efforts include limiting access to method of suicide such as firearms and poisons, treating mental illness and drug misuse, and improving economic circumstances. Although crisis hotlines are common, there is little evidence for their effectiveness.



KARACHI: “All is fair in love and war” – a popular saying had its practical implication when a teenage schoolboy in Karachi committed suicide after his parents allegedly refused love-marriage.

http://arynews.tv/en/fallen-in-love-karachi-school-boy-shoots-girl-dead-later-kills-himself/

[iv4n]

" Suicide is just shortcut on the way we all going. "  some people want to get there sooner some later. Where is freedom of choice if u can't decide everything about yourself.

[pitham1]

KARACHI: “All is fair in love and war” – a popular saying had its practical implication when a teenage schoolboy in Karachi committed suicide after his parents allegedly refused love-marriage.

http://arynews.tv/en/fallen-in-love-karachi-school-boy-shoots-girl-dead-later-kills-himself/

This bloke shot the girl he was in love with and then shot himself.
The murder should be making headlines, not the suicide. 

[gogxmagog]

suicide is always a bad move. dont do it. there are always people who care about you even if you cant see. besides, you never know what tomorrow might bring.

they have polled suicide attempts who did not die and almost all of them said they acted in a moment of darkness, but were glad to be alive.

wait it out. you're going to be ok

[operrajunk74]

I think that it is selfish under certain circumstances; they didn't tell anyone about their problems, and didn't offer anyone a chance to help them. This could make the parents or friends blame themselves for not seeing the problem. This could lead to a cluster suicide. I think that it isn't selfish and just their choice if they have tried everything they could. I don't support suicide at all.

[CoinFoxs]

KARACHI: “All is fair in love and war” – a popular saying had its practical implication when a teenage schoolboy in Karachi committed suicide after his parents allegedly refused love-marriage.

http://arynews.tv/en/fallen-in-love-karachi-school-boy-shoots-girl-dead-later-kills-himself/

This bloke shot the girl he was in love with and then shot himself.
The murder should be making headlines, not the suicide. 

I didn't get your point. Can you elaborate it ?

[miki77miki]

Natural selection at work.

[panju1]

Natural selection at work.

It is not just in the genes.
A lot more factors are at work in suicide - stress levels, financial problems, etc.

That said, the OP talks about aged people fasting to death. No natural selection taking place there

[vero]

Suicide is a horrible thing, and we as a community need to step up and help people. If we could help our family, our friends, our neighbours, co-workers, classmates, etc. when they need, and we show love, compassion and sympathy, we can make the world a better place.

[bryant.coleman]

Natural selection at work.

I am not so sure about it. Most of the people who commit suicide are young men or women of working age, with sufficient education and skills. Poor illiterate people seldom commit suicide. Death from drug addiction and alcoholism is natural selection. But death from suicide is not so. Suicide mostly affect those people who contribute to the society.