Why Gavin is so desperate about his fork? Is he hiding something?

[hdbuck]

...One side with an alternative client and the other with their sidechain.

not true.

one side is an altcoin the other is bitcoin.

period.

I think you misunderstood what he wrote. The other admins have their own sidechant, the lightning network. And that network would have an advantage when bitcoin would turn out to be expensive and slow or not unreliable. Because transactions would swith there. Which, by the way, is their argument. We need to take out transactions from bitcoin and leave bitcoin as a high value transaction system.

Surely not what most bitcoiners would want. Or the vision satoshi had with bitcoins.

So yes, both sides have their own altcoin in mind.

Meh, as long as bitcoin does not get highjacked. They can build whatever they want on top of it.

But high value transaction system? Sign me up already.

Though the problem starts when they promote 1 MB blocks which will effectively make bitcoin worse for users. Higher fees, unreliability about transactions going through and so on.

You should not create a sidechain, claim that transactions should move from bitcoin to sidechains and to make that possible make bitcoins less useful.

That simply is not ok.

And what about hijacked? Practically no one using xt is a fan of hearn. It is only a vote for bigger blocks. No one wants the other stupid things he wants.

Bigger blocks shall arrive in due time, if/when we have properly assessed all the little details that make this whole system hold together, taking into account real data and undertake proper tests to be sure not to break the fragile equilibrium that Bitcoin's unique consensus implies.

This is why status quo prevailed until gavin and heanr spread monsterfud amongst the noobs over at reddit.

This is why it shall prevail until a consensus is reached by all parties (not only the big miners, payment or wallets big corps).

This is why this process will take time, because blocks are not even half full on average, fees are laughable, mass adoption is still just some egocentric speculation, and socio-economics incentives are more investment driven (bitcoin's main sales pitch until now) than some cheesy visa/paypal competition (which is, btw, technically impossible on a single POW layer - ~26 GB/blocks to compete - because obviously decentralization hence, security of the network comes first).


edit: and to answer the OP, gavin was so urgent because his USG puppetmasters wanted to implement some "governance" on top of bitcoin (besides rushing a fork that could have literally killed bitcoin and its fragile equilibrium).
and he even admitted it somehow that he and heanr would be the "benevolent dictator".. not gonna happen tho.

[Blawpaw]

Yes. I agree what could he be hiding?
There are rumors saying that the changes he wants to introduce are meant to turn bitcoin into an easily trackable crypto...

[Hugroll]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

[hdbuck]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

How does Hilary/Obama/any other creepy "benevolant dictators" looks like when on Tv? Do you also get the sense that they "genuinly" care about the people?

[Hugroll]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

How does Hilary/Obama/any other creepy "benevolant dictators" looks like when on Tv? Do you also get the sense that they "genuinly" care about the people?

ya, but all Gavin is trying to do is fix the limit and not let the concept of bitcoin be destroyed. It's not like hes doing it for power, every future decision made for bitcoin doesn't need his approval.
Gavin or not, all i want is >1mb limits.

[hdbuck]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

How does Hilary/Obama/any other creepy "benevolant dictators" looks like when on Tv? Do you also get the sense that they "genuinly" care about the people?

ya, but all Gavin is trying to do is fix the limit and not let the concept of bitcoin be destroyed. It's not like hes doing it for power, every future decision made for bitcoin doesn't need his approval.
Gavin or not, all i want is >1mb limits.

why? where does this urge comes from? how is bitcoin "broken"?
how do you qualify to express your opinion regarding something that is economically complex and crucially technical?

plz dont tell me the first time you ever heard of this ting is from gavin last year... because its been investigated and monitored since at least 3 years.

[Hugroll]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

How does Hilary/Obama/any other creepy "benevolant dictators" looks like when on Tv? Do you also get the sense that they "genuinly" care about the people?

ya, but all Gavin is trying to do is fix the limit and not let the concept of bitcoin be destroyed. It's not like hes doing it for power, every future decision made for bitcoin doesn't need his approval.
Gavin or not, all i want is >1mb limits.

why? where does this urge comes from? how is bitcoin "broken"?
how do you qualify to express your opinion regarding something that is economically complex and crucially technical?

plz dont tell me the first time you ever heard of this ting is from gavin last year... because its been investigated and monitored since at least 3 years.

ill admit im pretty new to this debate, but doesnt the 7 transactions limit per second worry you?

[wachtwoord]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

How does Hilary/Obama/any other creepy "benevolant dictators" looks like when on Tv? Do you also get the sense that they "genuinly" care about the people?

ya, but all Gavin is trying to do is fix the limit and not let the concept of bitcoin be destroyed. It's not like hes doing it for power, every future decision made for bitcoin doesn't need his approval.
Gavin or not, all i want is >1mb limits.

why? where does this urge comes from? how is bitcoin "broken"?
how do you qualify to express your opinion regarding something that is economically complex and crucially technical?

plz dont tell me the first time you ever heard of this ting is from gavin last year... because its been investigated and monitored since at least 3 years.

ill admit im pretty new to this debate, but doesnt the 7 transactions limit per second worry you?

No it doesn't.

A change to the protocol which reduces the security of the network by killing the fee market does. A change in the protocol that centralizes the mining business because only big players can have low enough latency does. A change in the protocol which kills decentralization of full clients does.

Remember decentralized security of the network and decentralization of transaction verification are the two factors which make the Blockchain (our blockchain) more than just a random *.txt file of transactions some nerds are sending around.

Also remember, we don't need to pay for a coffee with Bitcoin on the Blockchain. The Blockchain is an expensive resource and should be treated as such. It should be dedicated for transactions that need a very high amount of security, otherwise Bitcoin will simply die after the subsidy stops as usage is uneconomical. If Bitcoin could become the global method of choice for preserving and transferring larger block of wealth around the world with a extremely high amount of security and autonomy I will be delighted (not to mention rich as hell).

[Amph]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

last time i've checked gavin hold a good stash too, everyone is doing everything for himself here, there is no genuine guy

there are only some, not-bad guys and bad guys, and btw why he is not posting here anymore?

[Mickeyb]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

How does Hilary/Obama/any other creepy "benevolant dictators" looks like when on Tv? Do you also get the sense that they "genuinly" care about the people?

ya, but all Gavin is trying to do is fix the limit and not let the concept of bitcoin be destroyed. It's not like hes doing it for power, every future decision made for bitcoin doesn't need his approval.
Gavin or not, all i want is >1mb limits.

why? where does this urge comes from? how is bitcoin "broken"?
how do you qualify to express your opinion regarding something that is economically complex and crucially technical?

plz dont tell me the first time you ever heard of this ting is from gavin last year... because its been investigated and monitored since at least 3 years.

ill admit im pretty new to this debate, but doesnt the 7 transactions limit per second worry you?

No it doesn't.

A change to the protocol which reduces the security of the network by killing the fee market does. A change in the protocol that centralizes the mining business because only big players can have low enough latency does. A change in the protocol which kills decentralization of full clients does.

Remember decentralized security of the network and decentralization of transaction verification are the two factors which make the Blockchain (our blockchain) more than just a random *.txt file of transactions some nerds are sending around.

Also remember, we don't need to pay for a coffee with Bitcoin on the Blockchain. The Blockchain is an expensive resource and should be treated as such. It should be dedicated for transactions that need a very high amount of security, otherwise Bitcoin will simply die after the subsidy stops as usage is uneconomical. If Bitcoin could become the global method of choice for preserving and transferring larger block of wealth around the world with a extremely high amount of security and autonomy I will be delighted (not to mention rich as hell).

This is a very correct answer and I agree with you 100%. At the same time I think that leaving the cap at 1MB is a bit too paranoid. Even if we raise it to let's say 8MB, we can't make Bitcoin so much more insecure, can't we? But this is still 8x more transactions per second than with 1MB and this would mean a lot for these huge, expensive transfers around the world.

Of course, raising cap illimitlesly and in this way making Bitcoin insecure is out of question.

[hdbuck]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

How does Hilary/Obama/any other creepy "benevolant dictators" looks like when on Tv? Do you also get the sense that they "genuinly" care about the people?

ya, but all Gavin is trying to do is fix the limit and not let the concept of bitcoin be destroyed. It's not like hes doing it for power, every future decision made for bitcoin doesn't need his approval.
Gavin or not, all i want is >1mb limits.

why? where does this urge comes from? how is bitcoin "broken"?
how do you qualify to express your opinion regarding something that is economically complex and crucially technical?

plz dont tell me the first time you ever heard of this ting is from gavin last year... because its been investigated and monitored since at least 3 years.

ill admit im pretty new to this debate, but doesnt the 7 transactions limit per second worry you?

No it doesn't.

A change to the protocol which reduces the security of the network by killing the fee market does. A change in the protocol that centralizes the mining business because only big players can have low enough latency does. A change in the protocol which kills decentralization of full clients does.

Remember decentralized security of the network and decentralization of transaction verification are the two factors which make the Blockchain (our blockchain) more than just a random *.txt file of transactions some nerds are sending around.

Also remember, we don't need to pay for a coffee with Bitcoin on the Blockchain. The Blockchain is an expensive resource and should be treated as such. It should be dedicated for transactions that need a very high amount of security, otherwise Bitcoin will simply die after the subsidy stops as usage is uneconomical. If Bitcoin could become the global method of choice for preserving and transferring larger block of wealth around the world with a extremely high amount of security and autonomy I will be delighted (not to mention rich as hell).

This is a very correct answer and I agree with you 100%. At the same time I think that leaving the cap at 1MB is a bit too paranoid. Even if we raise it to let's say 8MB, we can't make Bitcoin so much more insecure, can't we? But this is still 8x more transactions per second than with 1MB and this would mean a lot for these huge, expensive transfers around the world.

Of course, raising cap illimitlesly and in this way making Bitcoin insecure is out of question.

bitcoin is about trust, hence being paranoid.

block size does not matter that much in regard to effectively scaling anyway, now doesn't it?

and it is not 1MB forever, let's not deviate in some manichean dystopia, although it was rightfully implemented to prevent *spam* remember?

[Carlton Banks]

At the same time I think that leaving the cap at 1MB is a bit too paranoid. Even if we raise it to let's say 8MB, we can't make Bitcoin so much more insecure, can't we? But this is still 8x more transactions per second than with 1MB and this would mean a lot for these huge, expensive transfers around the world.

Of course, raising cap illimitlesly and in this way making Bitcoin insecure is out of question.

Remember that upping the blocksize is not the only way to increase the transaction rate, the best approach for solutions to the problem is making better use of the blockchain resource we've already got. Plans for that are more advanced than I hoped, someone (probably Eligius) is already creating version 4 blocks, which means that type of solution is all one step closer to being technically possible.

[christycalhoun]

how is he desperate, i saw some interviews on youtube and he actually looks and sounds like a genuine guy who really cares about bitcoin.

last time i've checked gavin hold a good stash too, everyone is doing everything for himself here, there is no genuine guy

there are only some, not-bad guys and bad guys, and btw why he is not posting here anymore?

I think gavin feels he did not take advantage of bitcoin enough being an early adopter so he wants to recreate the thunder by re-releasing bitcoin under his own terms. That's how I feel about it.

[veryscared]

you will never know the agenda of a sociopath and thank thuck that these sociopaths will no longer be in control of our new money supply

this is history in the making we most defond bitcoin to the death

[cjmoles]

This is the way I see it:  Technology is advancing, interest is growing, and somebody somewhere (J.P.Morgan perhaps) is working on implementing a blockchain technology that is backed by the resources of the big banking industries and the US dollar.  In order to be competitive, Bitcoin needs to set the pace and be poised to be the technology that is adopted when (not if) the transition becomes viable.  I believe Gavin is speculating on this event (might even have inside knowledge) and is doing his best to make the Bitcoin blockchain as healthy as it can be in the event of mass adoption.  Mass adoption.....what would happen to the Bitcoin blockchain, in its current state, if it suddenly became available and adopted by a first world banking infrastructure?  It needs to be poised and in a position to handle the weight if it wants to be considered for this task seriously.

[ArticMine]

As far as I see it Gavin is desperatly trying to save Bitcoin.

[iCEBREAKER]

As far as I see it Gavin is desperatly trying to save Bitcoin.

You mean Gavin "The Economic Crisis is Over; Prepare For Fiber to Every NFLX terminal" Andresen?

   http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-08/ceo-worlds-largest-shipping-company-global-growth-worse-official-reports

Let's not take Gavin's advice on anything, as he was clearly promoted beyond his level of competence back when Satoshi left.

Bitcoin is antifragile, and thus does not need saving.  The feigned desperation is an emotionally manipulative marketing technique being used to sell XT via FUD and FOMO.

[ArticMine]

As far as I see it Gavin is desperatly trying to save Bitcoin.

You mean Gavin "The Economic Crisis is Over; Prepare For Fiber to Every NFLX terminal" Andresen?

   http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-08/ceo-worlds-largest-shipping-company-global-growth-worse-official-reports

Let's not take Gavin's advice on anything, as he was clearly promoted beyond his level of competence back when Satoshi left.

Bitcoin is antifragile, and thus does not need saving.  The feigned desperation is an emotionally manipulative marketing technique being used to sell XT via FUD and FOMO.

This ignores the fact that during a economic crisis a USB flash drive is a way more cost effective way to store 4 GB of data than a warehouse full of punched cards.

Edit: It is still possibe to send a telegram; however this costs a lot more than sending an email.

[hdbuck]

As far as I see it Gavin is desperatly trying to save Bitcoin.

You mean Gavin "The Economic Crisis is Over; Prepare For Fiber to Every NFLX terminal" Andresen?

   http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-08/ceo-worlds-largest-shipping-company-global-growth-worse-official-reports

Let's not take Gavin's advice on anything, as he was clearly promoted beyond his level of competence back when Satoshi left.

Bitcoin is antifragile, and thus does not need saving.  The feigned desperation is an emotionally manipulative marketing technique being used to sell XT via FUD and FOMO.

This ignores the fact that during a economic crisis a USB flash drive is a way more cost effective way to store 4 GB of data than a warehouse full of punched cards.

Edit: It is still possibe to send a telegram; however this costs a lot more than sending an email.

whats with this talking about 4GB flash drives and credit cards everywhere??

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1240437.msg12924791#msg12924791

[favdesu]

As far as I see it Gavin is desperatly trying to save Bitcoin.

but there is no need to save anything at the moment. so far, bitcoin dealt with problems in a good manner.