Butterfly Labs invests heavily in high speed production equipment

[Jack1Rip1BurnIt]

If this really were a scam  and they got away with it, it would be one of the most genius and elaborate scams ever conducted on the internet. They pretend to be a real business and sell real products only to, more than a year later, take a bunch of money and run even though they are allowing bank wires for payment. Maybe the three other competitors are also in it. They even got Inaba in it. This is just false flag 9/11 all over again.

These people have already confirmed they are a legitimate business for a long time. Many of the scam conspiracy theories have been debunked over and over. There is zero evidence that this is a scam. If you really think it's a scam then just don't order. It's pretty simple. There's no reason to spam every single BFL thread with your nonsense.

+This. Get over it

[superfastkyle]

+This. Get over it

I would get over it if it wasn't for the fact that I want bitcoin to succeed and these perpetual scams are going to kill it if we let it. The increase of scams in even the last month or two is huge. Sometimes I can not believe the blind trust people have in certain forum members/businesses. I remember saying a couple months ago if nothing happened with bitcoinica we would have a huge influx of major scams, as there are almost 0 consequences for pulling off a million dollar scam. Just since bitcoinica we have had pirateat40, Matthews default, Hashkings default, bitfloor frozen accounts, glbse down and who knows what I forgot. As time goes on people lose faith, but there are still those people who cling to it almost indefinitely.

Also how was Sonny's first scam much less elaborate than this one? anybody remember those fake used car warranties? that was pretty elaborate. Elaborate scams do happen quite often.


"and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods." - Adolf Hitler

edit: fixed wrongly quoted...

[crazyates]

+This. Get over it

I would get over it if it wasn't for the fact that I want bitcoin to succeed and these perpetual scams are going to kill it if we let it. The increase of scams in even the last month or two is huge. Sometimes I can not believe the blind trust people have in certain forum members/businesses. I remember saying a couple months ago if nothing happened with bitcoinica we would have a huge influx of major scams, as there are almost 0 consequences for pulling off a million dollar scam. Just since bitcoinica we have had pirateat40, Matthews default, Hashkings default, bitfloor frozen accounts, glbse down and who knows what I forgot. As time goes on people lose faith, but there are still those people who cling to it almost indefinitely.

Also how was Sonny's first scam much less elaborate than this one? anybody remember those fake used car warranties? that was pretty elaborate. Elaborate scams do happen quite often.

"and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods." - Adolf Hitler

edit: fixed wrongly quoted...

Cautious is one thing. Throwing out accusations to everyone and their grandmother is another. Try looking through a critical eye, rather than a condemning one.

[superfastkyle]

well I'm over it, as obviously there are no minds to change at this point. You keep using your "critical eye" and I will use my "condemning eye", we'll see how each one turns out

[melmo]

Wow, 20 years ago I used to work in the electronics manufacturing industry and bought a Panasonic Panasert SMT pick & place machine for around $1M.  Heck, even the software to optimize the part placement and order of the part spools cost close to a million - but we didn't buy that, we had our own custom software.

Hard to believe you can buy one off eBay now.  Times have changed!  I wonder if the warranty is transferable?

[Bogart]

BFL_Office - 10-05-2012, 02:11 PM  Reply
Because they're in transit. The announcement was made after our purchase. Once the machines are fully installed, we'll be happy to flood you with photos and assembly videos

let's see

Let's see indeed.  If they were purchased on Wednesday the 3rd, they ought to be arriving around Monday the 8th if they ship from within the US.  I can't imagine BFL waiting for slow international shipping.  They are on a schedule after all.

I'll wager 5 BTC that no such photos show up any time next week (thru the 13th) that are not obvious fakes or highly questionable.  Certainly none that provide a solid assurance that BFL is in fact in possession of and operating or setting up these machines for operation.

(Post in the thread if you wanna take the other side of this wager.)

[CoinHoarder]

BFL_Office - 10-05-2012, 02:11 PM  Reply
Because they're in transit. The announcement was made after our purchase. Once the machines are fully installed, we'll be happy to flood you with photos and assembly videos

let's see

Let's see indeed.  If they were purchased on Wednesday the 3rd, they ought to be arriving around Monday the 8th if they ship from within the US.  I can't imagine BFL waiting for slow international shipping.  They are on a schedule after all.

I'll wager 5 BTC that no such photos show up any time next week (thru the 13th) that are not obvious fakes or highly questionable.  Certainly none that provide a solid assurance that BFL is in fact in possession of and operating or setting up these machines for operation.

(Post in the thread if you wanna take the other side of this wager.)

I accept your bet. Someone quote please.

To be clear, I am betting 5 BTC that BFL posts pictures of their new equipment before 10/13/2012.

[cedivad]

BFL_Office - 10-05-2012, 02:11 PM  Reply
Because they're in transit. The announcement was made after our purchase. Once the machines are fully installed, we'll be happy to flood you with photos and assembly videos

let's see

Let's see indeed.  If they were purchased on Wednesday the 3rd, they ought to be arriving around Monday the 8th if they ship from within the US.  I can't imagine BFL waiting for slow international shipping.  They are on a schedule after all.

I'll wager 5 BTC that no such photos show up any time next week (thru the 13th) that are not obvious fakes or highly questionable.  Certainly none that provide a solid assurance that BFL is in fact in possession of and operating or setting up these machines for operation.

(Post in the thread if you wanna take the other side of this wager.)

I accept your bet. Someone quote please.

To be clear, I am betting 5 BTC that BFL posts pictures of their new equipment before 10/13/2012.

Quoted.

[CoinHoarder]

Easy money 

[Jack1Rip1BurnIt]

It won't take long to get from Texas

[bitmar]

from:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/120-BFL-Invests-in-Assembly-Equipment?page=2#comments
"BFL_Josh - 10-05-2012, 06:56 PM  Reply
Those pictures are the pictures we based the purchase off of. We did not inquire as to the GPS coordinates of their origin and assume that the pictures represent the actual product. If they don't, well then, we will deal with that then."

What will be the next explanation? "Seller cheated us" ? I hope not. We are waiting for photos of equipment in your company. good luck

[PuertoLibre]

from:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/120-BFL-Invests-in-Assembly-Equipment?page=2#comments
"BFL_Josh - 10-05-2012, 06:56 PM  Reply
Those pictures are the pictures we based the purchase off of. We did not inquire as to the GPS coordinates of their origin and assume that the pictures represent the actual product. If they don't, well then, we will deal with that then."

What will be the next explanation? "Seller cheated us" ? I hope not. We are waiting for photos of equipment in your company. good luck

Have they actually taken any pictures of their offices? (Outside and Interior?)

Someone might want to ask BFL for some reference photos to allay fears of the community.

It would also shed some light on what the operation looks like on the inside. Some of those machines consume quite a bit of power when they are in full operation. I assume your standard office space might not have the juice to run all that equipment. (Then again, I could be wrong)

Has anyone actually ever seen the photos of the inside of their offices or warehouse/receiving location? I know this is a strange question to ask of a company....but considering they are a small company and they actually participate in user forums....this does not sound out of the line.

They could kill tons of rumors just with that alone. (Please include any Exif Data and original file names!)

[Inaba]

They could kill tons of rumors just with that alone. (Please include any Exif Data and original file names!)

You must be new here, so let me answer this for you:  No it wouldn't.

[cedivad]

They could kill tons of rumors just with that alone. (Please include any Exif Data and original file names!)

You must be new here, so let me answer this for you:  No it wouldn't.

Yes it would.

I would stop for at least 2 weeks.

I promise.

[Inaba]

Yes, for two weeks, starting three weeks ago.

[Bogart]

Have they actually taken any pictures of their offices? (Outside and Interior?)

Someone might want to ask BFL for some reference photos to allay fears of the community.

It would also shed some light on what the operation looks like on the inside. Some of those machines consume quite a bit of power when they are in full operation. I assume your standard office space might not have the juice to run all that equipment. (Then again, I could be wrong)

Has anyone actually ever seen the photos of the inside of their offices or warehouse/receiving location? I know this is a strange question to ask of a company....but considering they are a small company and they actually participate in user forums....this does not sound out of the line.

They could kill tons of rumors just with that alone. (Please include any Exif Data and original file names!)

BFL has had tons of opportunities like this one to show the goods and allay ppls fears, and they have taken none of them.

If they were to take such an opportunity, it would do a lot to boost confidence in their product, and probably spur an increase in sales.

So why haven't they done this?  Well, my money is on the simplest explanation...

[bustaballs]

Shouldn't you guys be on some fake moon landing aliens website?

[superfastkyle]

I don't know why you think that not believing everything we hear from BFL labs makes us some crazies or conspiracy theorists. Its usually safer to question things when something looks fishy. I did when I seen that the photos did not look like they were taken at the same place. Different lighting, different flooring, different quality photos, on top of the fact that a usual scam technique is to steal pictures off other websites and call them your own. And I'm using the information I found and lowering my possibility of their release. I used to have gigaming shares to hedge the release of BFL asic, now (conveniently) I didn't think it was necessary any longer and sold them. A true conspiracy theorist would say that bfl products don't exist at all.

Shouldn't you guys be on some fake moon landing aliens website?

[Bogart]

A true conspiracy theorist would say that bfl products don't exist at all.

That is, in fact, my opinion currently (regarding the SC product line, not the known-to-exist FPGA products).  I place it's probability of being correct around 75%.

I can't fathom why else they would be behaving the way that they are.  Surely being more transparent could do nothing but bring them more business.

[PuertoLibre]

They could kill tons of rumors just with that alone. (Please include any Exif Data and original file names!)

You must be new here, so let me answer this for you:  No it wouldn't.

Yes, I am new to this community.

Have you tried to actually do this before? From the way your talking to me, either you have done it and it failed (for some reason?) or you haven't and aren't willing to try.

Do you have a PR person? [a Professional]

I only know that one of your former products allegedly under performed and didn't live up to expectations. So I understand that angst in "these people". Beyond that, considering you have actually delivered products before to a market....why do you guys have such an incredibly bad reputation? Your company suffers from a very bad image seemingly beyond that bad product launch.

People are doubting that you guys are even a legitimate company. Why don't you hire someone to do the PR work to turn it around? Or at least provide the contradictory evidence that forces naysayers to back down?

I am going to be asking the exact same question of Avalon. I expect they will be forthcoming about their operation.

--------------------------

The people behind Avalon seem to have also delivered products to market as you have. They don't face anywhere near the same scrutiny and PR problems that your company does. Why is that? You might have a ton of orders but anytime anything [even tiny things] goes wrong it will just add to the bad PR.

Don't get mad, hire some professional, figure out what you can do to clean up that pervasive image of your company and solicit the help of forums Admins to intervene if someone says something which is verifiably false.

---------------------------

Full Disclosure: I am buying one of the Avalon Units. Originally, before I surfed this forum, I considered BFL the best option. Yet after reading through the forum I have decided to go with a company who users are less wary of. (A positive reputation)

Your company [BFL] looks like it has a lot more business and orders in its pipeline than any other. But after reading through the community your bad PR has "scared me away" from placing an order. If too many people are saying there is something wrong, then there is probably something to it. <---That is the pervasive impression I got.

Imagine that, I am going to buy from some company in CHINA...than feel confident in a company closer to home. That is the state of things from my corner.

If something [further] goes wrong in one of BFLs products what does that solidify in my mind?

To someone whom is seeing and reading that inundation of bad PR [whether it be true or actually very false and baseless], what does a lifetime of warranty and higher performance rating actually mean if most everyone is constantly hammering on about how many bad points BFL has? You would have to either own BFL hardware and by virtue of experience know of the reliability OR trust in what others have said.

It makes it feel more like "a gamble" with 1.3k (or equivalent bitcoins) than it really should be. I want to buy from your company what I need for mining. But damn, considering what has been the focus of things, it makes it feel much more risky than it actually probably is.

I am going to the company in China simply because they have a better reputation (or lack thereof). (even if it is baseless)

That is a very messed up situation!