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Author Topic: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385  (Read 38902 times)
sidehack
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August 20, 2015, 10:34:40 PM
 #121

Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

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suchmoon
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August 20, 2015, 10:37:41 PM
 #122

Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

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August 20, 2015, 11:05:15 PM
 #123

PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.

No, PACMIC v3 mines with the S5.

I would be interested in learning more about PacMIC from those who have tried it out.



I have 15th in PacMIC v3  my cost was 9.99 btc  If it all works and nothing goes wrong I will see about 10.25 to 10.40 btc  a profit of .26 to .40 on 9.99 btc
do I think you should buy 9.99 btc = 15th ? no  you should buy what you can afford to lose. you should buy 3 times one day apart if you do decide to buy.

I purchase 13 contracts over 6 days time. they add to 9.99 btc 15th I have been paid back about .68 btc as of the screen shot below



I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
sidehack
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August 20, 2015, 11:28:36 PM
 #124

Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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August 20, 2015, 11:34:38 PM
 #125

Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

That's silly, there is still plenty of life left in the miner and it's a way to transfer risk. I'd never sell them as new and everyone knows what they are getting into. I have an a2 I bought used and have been running it since November; I don't feel ripped off and why should I? Is it wrong to generate some income now? Should we all just hold?
philipma1957
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August 20, 2015, 11:43:46 PM
 #126

Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

That's silly, there is still plenty of life left in the miner and it's a way to transfer risk. I'd never sell them as new and everyone knows what they are getting into. I have an a2 I bought used and have been running it since November; I don't feel ripped off and why should I? Is it wrong to generate some income now? Should we all just hold?

We little guys did not make flat diff happen.

Although I did write a long detailed thread about asic/builders freezing diff to ensure profit. So maybe they use my idea.

Not sure if is so bad or good.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
suchmoon
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August 21, 2015, 12:55:59 AM
 #127

Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

Not only flat diff but also Bitcoin exchange rate created a lot of weird price fluctuations over the last 9-12 months.

Selling used as "new" - bad. Selling used as "used" between two mutually consenting adults - perfectly fine. It's not like it's some kind of a black market drug trade. Anyone can google up whether they are getting ripped off or not.

sidehack
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August 21, 2015, 12:58:08 AM
 #128

Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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August 21, 2015, 01:09:07 AM
 #129

Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

That's an oversimplified argument. The price is mostly based on the EXPECTATION of revenue, which could be influenced by a lot of factors, such as buyer's power costs vs seller's power costs etc. If the buyer can extract more use out of that hardware than alienesb - more power to him/her, pun intended.

Them chips are great with salsa.

Seriously though, I'd be more interested in the specs of an actual S7. This pre-announcement sounds like an attempt to preempt something and is quite useless for an end user like myself.

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August 21, 2015, 01:19:50 AM
 #130

When is the price going to be released?
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August 21, 2015, 04:54:34 AM
 #131

But when will have an actionable 10th miner?!?!?!?!
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August 21, 2015, 05:01:22 AM
 #132

Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

That's an oversimplified argument. The price is mostly based on the EXPECTATION of revenue, which could be influenced by a lot of factors, such as buyer's power costs vs seller's power costs etc. If the buyer can extract more use out of that hardware than alienesb - more power to him/her, pun intended.

Them chips are great with salsa.

Seriously though, I'd be more interested in the specs of an actual S7. This pre-announcement sounds like an attempt to preempt something and is quite useless for an end user like myself.

Yes, the power cost can be a great influence. Sometimes a zero worth of junk miner for you, is something that can generate very good cash flow , and is money printing machines. So selling the used miners at the right timing and to the right buyer is a kind of art.

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August 21, 2015, 11:20:23 AM
 #133

Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Ssssh.... don't reveal the secret.....

EDIT: I usually put some added value to my sales btw, that makes sale easier and you end up having a happy relationship with the buyer, with more sales waiting to happen in the future.

I apply Bitmain's technique: Sell the stuff at 4-5x the earnings of a month with a 0-electricity cost. However, i usually add a PSU and some training on proper handling and care of the device, as i usually sell them in BETTER condition than bitmain does.

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August 21, 2015, 11:28:23 AM
 #134

Do you think the price will be more like above 1000 USD or below, like s5?

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August 21, 2015, 11:52:50 AM
 #135

Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.
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August 21, 2015, 12:09:15 PM
 #136

Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

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August 21, 2015, 12:25:13 PM
 #137

Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Thats why you employ people that know what they are doing and use MPW runs. Not rocket science, is it?
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August 21, 2015, 12:26:13 PM
 #138

Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Oh, and 'nearly eight figures'Huh?
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August 21, 2015, 01:07:56 PM
 #139

waiting for the s7+ monster!!! 15th and 3kw Roll Eyes
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August 21, 2015, 01:16:29 PM
 #140

Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

Huh?  I use the same strategy with my ASIC purchases and obviously there is a lot of guesswork and a little bit of luck involved, but I have profited off the S1, S3, S5, and SP20 by using this same strategy.  When I decide to sell my old gear, I do so based on what I paid for it, how quickly difficulty is rising, what I have mined so far, the season of the year (save on heating bill in winter), and the approximate going rate for the miner on the second hand market.  I list the miner on ebay at 0.01 cents with no reserve, offer free shipping, set it for a week, and thats it.  Knowingly misrepresenting a miner as new, something it isn't, higher performance or better condition than it is, etc are all bad things.  But if the free market is overvaluing mining gear at a particular moment in time, I'm stealing from someone if I sell it?  That doesn't make sense.  Some people have cheap or free electricity, some people dont care about ROI and it's just a toy for them, some people are simply making a poorly timed purchase because they don't know how to properly assess the value of the mining gear.  It doesn't matter.  As long as they are freely choosing to purchase the item and I am not misleading them, there is nothing wrong with it.  It's value is exactly what the free market will pay for it.   Sometimes the free market overvalues a product or service, sometimes the free market undervalues a product or service.  If you are able to accurately gauge the true value of an item better than the rest of the market, whether it is the ASIC market, stock market, or hell, the grocery market, you will gain anytime you are able to sell something while it is overvalued and buy something when it is undervalued.  This is just how a free market capitalistic economy and natural price discovery functions.
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