[poll] BFL is scam?

[mobodick]

I'm not very familiar with the production, but I assume that in the final stage should already have something to show people besides cartoon drawings  Especially not one I doubt the veracity of, here on the English forum even jokingly called these "club member foil hats"

Well, there is a very good reason for not showing the actual implementation.
A board designer can learn a lot about the architecture by looking at an empty pbc.
With components this problem is even bigger.
For a small company it is very important to keep the design a secret as long as possible.
Otherwise a chinese firm with bigger facilities and no work will take your design and push it to market before you do.
Welcome to the brutal world of electronics manufacturing.
 

[aTg]

I'm not very familiar with the production, but I assume that in the final stage should already have something to show people besides cartoon drawings  Especially not one I doubt the veracity of, here on the English forum even jokingly called these "club member foil hats"

Well, there is a very good reason for not showing the actual implementation.
A board designer can learn a lot about the architecture by looking at an empty pbc.
With components this problem is even bigger.
For a small company it is very important to keep the design a secret as long as possible.
Otherwise a chinese firm with bigger facilities and no work will take your design and push it to market before you do.
Welcome to the brutal world of electronics manufacturing.
 

Make a copy of an ASIC with a low quality picture? that very poor reasoning.

It's a conspiracy theory but even if this BFL decided to sell real products, it is very tempting to stay with deposits in bitcoins that are untraceable and disappear from the map hoping the price combulsión augmente created.

Constant changes in the models promised smell some kind of flight forward, pushing people to spend a little more to improve a little promise supported by graphics, pictures of new facilities and new products with AutoCAD ... Being objective looks really bad, but 50% of those who responded to the survey believe it possible, is an absolute majority.

[bitmar]

[
Otherwise a chinese firm with bigger facilities and no work will take your design and push it to market before you do.
Welcome to the brutal world of electronics manufacturing.
 

Chinese companies do not need to copy the great BFL project . For them, it's no problem to do better I think no serious Chinese company does not see  economic sense. ASIC projects are very expensive to design and risky. Bitcoin is a niche project, the number of potential customers is limited and low

[squid]

I am surprised so many people think BFL is legitimately a scam..

[mobodick]

I'm not very familiar with the production, but I assume that in the final stage should already have something to show people besides cartoon drawings  Especially not one I doubt the veracity of, here on the English forum even jokingly called these "club member foil hats"

Well, there is a very good reason for not showing the actual implementation.
A board designer can learn a lot about the architecture by looking at an empty pbc.
With components this problem is even bigger.
For a small company it is very important to keep the design a secret as long as possible.
Otherwise a chinese firm with bigger facilities and no work will take your design and push it to market before you do.
Welcome to the brutal world of electronics manufacturing.
 

Make a copy of an ASIC with a low quality picture? that very poor reasoning.

It's a conspiracy theory but even if this BFL decided to sell real products, it is very tempting to stay with deposits in bitcoins that are untraceable and disappear from the map hoping the price combulsión augmente created.

Constant changes in the models promised smell some kind of flight forward, pushing people to spend a little more to improve a little promise supported by graphics, pictures of new facilities and new products with AutoCAD ... Being objective looks really bad, but 50% of those who responded to the survey believe it possible, is an absolute majority.

My experience with companies that produce electronics is that specs change often and designs are secret.
It is not a good way to assess if it is a scam or not. It is normal behavior for a small electronics firm.
So from this behavior you cannot conclude that it is a scam.

[mobodick]

[
Otherwise a chinese firm with bigger facilities and no work will take your design and push it to market before you do.
Welcome to the brutal world of electronics manufacturing.
 

Chinese companies do not need to copy the great BFL project . For them, it's no problem to do better I think no serious Chinese company does not see  economic sense. ASIC projects are very expensive to design and risky. Bitcoin is a niche project, the number of potential customers is limited and low

You've got any idea how costly and labour intensive designing is?
If a manufacturer could copy parts of a design he would not have to invest time and money to do it himself and can start producing much faster. The original designer already solved most of the problems.
A chinese manufacturer can beat you to the market if your design leaks.
It happened before and it will happen again.

If you can copy someone elses design you don't have that much risk!

[bitmar]

I am surprised so many people think BFL is legitimately a scam..

It is safer to assume that BFL is scam. If you're wrong, you buy ASIC from BFL  "few" days later than the others (when the product will be ready) . BFL boast that they are able to make a few thousand boards per day so if you order now or two months later you will get rig a similar period of time. If you're right (BFL is scam), you will save a lot of money and nerves. As you can see, thinking that BFL is a scam, you gain more than you lose. I remember how many people trusted pirate and how many were using gblse....

[creativex]

I don't think BFL's ASIC pre-orders are a scam, but I will say that reading through their limited available information and what's available here on btctalk made me rather uneasy. IMO they began their pre-order entirely too early, they've been overly opaque, and when their reps are pressed for details they're often unprofessional and even combative.

I'm also concerned with their pre-order program's lack of clarity/confusion level. For instance if one goes to their website and pre-orders a little single sc today, one could easily be lead to conclude that the unit will be shipped within just a few weeks, but that seems very doubtful for a number of reasons.

[bitmar]

[
Otherwise a chinese firm with bigger facilities and no work will take your design and push it to market before you do.
Welcome to the brutal world of electronics manufacturing.
 

Chinese companies do not need to copy the great BFL project . For them, it's no problem to do better I think no serious Chinese company does not see  economic sense. ASIC projects are very expensive to design and risky. Bitcoin is a niche project, the number of potential customers is limited and low

You've got any idea how costly and labour intensive designing is?

http://www.eecg.toronto.edu/~vaughn/papers/ersa2010_advances.pdf
http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/12360/fpgas-and-structured-asics-low-risk-soc-for-the-masses.html
http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/13550/fpga-prototyping-to-structured-asic-production-to-reduce-cost-risk-ttm.html

http://www.dz.ee.ethz.ch/?id=1592 -> http://www.dz.ee.ethz.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/dz/files/asiccostestimator.xls  ->  ASIC cost estimator LOL 

[mobodick]

[
Otherwise a chinese firm with bigger facilities and no work will take your design and push it to market before you do.
Welcome to the brutal world of electronics manufacturing.
 

Chinese companies do not need to copy the great BFL project . For them, it's no problem to do better I think no serious Chinese company does not see  economic sense. ASIC projects are very expensive to design and risky. Bitcoin is a niche project, the number of potential customers is limited and low

You've got any idea how costly and labour intensive designing is?

http://www.eecg.toronto.edu/~vaughn/papers/ersa2010_advances.pdf
http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/12360/fpgas-and-structured-asics-low-risk-soc-for-the-masses.html
http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/13550/fpga-prototyping-to-structured-asic-production-to-reduce-cost-risk-ttm.html

http://www.dz.ee.ethz.ch/?id=1592 -> http://www.dz.ee.ethz.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/dz/files/asiccostestimator.xls  ->  ASIC cost estimator LOL 

I'm not talking about the ASIC design. That would not show up on a photo of a pcb. duh.

[SLok]

I am surprised so many people think BFL is legitimately a scam..

It is safer to assume that BFL is scam. If you're wrong, you buy ASIC from BFL  "few" days later than the others (when the product will be ready) . BFL boast that they are able to make a few thousand boards per day so if you order now or two months later you will get rig a similar period of time. If you're right (BFL is scam), you will save a lot of money and nerves. As you can see, thinking that BFL is a scam, you gain more than you lose. I remember how many people trusted pirate and how many were using gblse....

BFL stated 300 boards per 8 hour shift, or 900 per 24 hours when working in 3 shifts, not "a few thousand a day".
ps Anyone that fell for Pirate is at least feeble minded, don't know shit about gbsle, but had they people's money or coins? At least, bfl delivered hardware before, and still does.

[bitmar]

I am surprised so many people think BFL is legitimately a scam..

It is safer to assume that BFL is scam. If you're wrong, you buy ASIC from BFL  "few" days later than the others (when the product will be ready) . BFL boast that they are able to make a few thousand boards per day so if you order now or two months later you will get rig a similar period of time. If you're right (BFL is scam), you will save a lot of money and nerves. As you can see, thinking that BFL is a scam, you gain more than you lose. I remember how many people trusted pirate and how many were using gblse....

BFL stated 300 boards per 8 hour shift, or 900 per 24 hours when working in 3 shifts, not "a few thousand a day".
ps Anyone that fell for Pirate is at least feeble minded, don't know shit about gbsle, but had they people's money or coins? At least, bfl delivered hardware before, and still does.

ok, my mistake. If they are going to do 900 boards per 24 hours, they should execute all orders in a week or two or three. The point is, it's not worth the risk to buy preorder to gain a few days time. I'm not saying that BFL is a scam, they can make mistakes and go bankrupt as well.  A simple calculation of risk - possible profits and losses.

[naima53]

I am surprised so many people think BFL is legitimately a scam..

It is safer to assume that BFL is scam. If you're wrong, you buy ASIC from BFL  "few" days later than the others (when the product will be ready) . BFL boast that they are able to make a few thousand boards per day so if you order now or two months later you will get rig a similar period of time. If you're right (BFL is scam), you will save a lot of money and nerves. As you can see, thinking that BFL is a scam, you gain more than you lose. I remember how many people trusted pirate and how many were using gblse....

BFL stated 300 boards per 8 hour shift, or 900 per 24 hours when working in 3 shifts, not "a few thousand a day".
ps Anyone that fell for Pirate is at least feeble minded, don't know shit about gbsle, but had they people's money or coins? At least, bfl delivered hardware before, and still does.

Well, for such a jackpot worth doing this before .. (makes sense to engage in real activity for a long time)
Let's see what happens next ...

[pyromaniac]

Although I was buying 3 Jalapenos, I still don't trust them, until my pre-orders is not arrived. They still havent any photos of ready to use products or any other proof. But, the future is not defined.. as Terminator said.

[rouhaud]

good news for you !!!





you can see here how many users they are on eclipse
https://eclipsemc.com/

Active Miners    1497
Current Speed:    1.73 TH/s

of course they are asic miner who mining !!!!

here the production line
http://www.butterflylabs.com/mini-rig-production-line/

[bitmar]

good news for you !!!



you can see here how many users they are on eclipse
https://eclipsemc.com/

Active Miners    1497
Current Speed:    1.73 TH/s

of course they are asic miner who mining !!!!

here the production line
http://www.butterflylabs.com/mini-rig-production-line/

LOL   This is FPGA minirig, no ASIC

[mobodick]

good news for you !!!

you can see here how many users they are on eclipse
https://eclipsemc.com/

Active Miners    1497
Current Speed:    1.73 TH/s

of course they are asic miner who mining !!!!

here the production line
http://www.butterflylabs.com/mini-rig-production-line/

LOL  This is FPGA minirig, no ASIC

But the question is, do they look like they are packing up shop?

[bitmar]

good news for you !!!

you can see here how many users they are on eclipse
https://eclipsemc.com/

Active Miners    1497
Current Speed:    1.73 TH/s

of course they are asic miner who mining !!!!

here the production line
http://www.butterflylabs.com/mini-rig-production-line/

LOL  This is FPGA minirig, no ASIC

But the question is, do they look like they are packing up shop?

It does not prove anything. With all due respect to the BFL of course (I am not saying that they are scammers)
Scam companies always look credible and trustworthy, if not they could not fool the people People are suspicious of companies who sell preorders and risk their money. I think it's normal

[pyromaniac]

It does not prove anything. With all due respect to the BFL of course (I am not saying that they are scammers)
Scam companies always look credible and trustworthy, if not they could not fool the people People are suspicious of companies who sell preorders and risk their money. I think it's normal

I absolutely agreed with that! I'm investing in miscellaneous HYIP programs at least a few years. And I know as nobody else, that almost all scammers look very alike to real investment funds. So butterflies must hurry up, trust limit is limited. 

[mobodick]

good news for you !!!

you can see here how many users they are on eclipse
https://eclipsemc.com/

Active Miners    1497
Current Speed:    1.73 TH/s

of course they are asic miner who mining !!!!

here the production line
http://www.butterflylabs.com/mini-rig-production-line/

LOL  This is FPGA minirig, no ASIC

But the question is, do they look like they are packing up shop?

It does not prove anything. With all due respect to the BFL of course (I am not saying that they are scammers)
Scam companies always look credible and trustworthy, if not they could not fool the people People are suspicious of companies who sell preorders and risk their money. I think it's normal

It proves they have a good running company.
What would motivate them to take a relatively small sum of money and run from authority if they can have fun doing things they like while they earn their money? I think it would be pointless and stupid.