[Proposal] Mining Co-Op

[blacklizard]

Nice idea ATCkit, hope it works out.

Quick side note, SP50's start at 1PH min order. Probably better of aiming at S7's to get started.

[1714687544]

1714687544

[armedmilitia]

Count me in. I've done a ton of research on hosting in the past. GND is the best option I had seen the last time I checked.

As far as adding more "hashing power" to this group buy, i think you guys could team up with the Get Hashing group and be able to get larger numbers of people involved. Get Hashing has been doing what you guys are wanting to do for some time. They're on their 3rd batch now. Only difference is they have their data center in the US. Canada, GND or another CDN doing the same thing, will help to get the cost down further.

In a nutshell, it's all about rig efficiency and lowest cost for hosting. The clear choice at this point appears to be:

- the SP50  (Maybe an even more efficient rig will be available by Q1 2016.)

- hosted at GND.

- Get Hashing groups Proof of Everything and their trusted/known pay out model. (perhaps Armed or someone could talk to cyberdexter, keymaster, daffy or nemesio about this?)

Having said all that, none of us can tumble the numbers until we get a price for the SP50 or whatever may be competitive with it in Q1 2016. However, I like the way you guys are thinking.


EDIT: Here's the Get Hashing forum link: https://forum.gethashing.com/  and
how they're already handling dispersal of batch 1 units as they move into batch 3 can be found here: https://forum.gethashing.com/t/ann-ghx-batch-3-hardware-redemption-round-1/5485

Note: I'm not trying to hi jack this group buy idea. I think that like minded people can work together and make it a win win. Get Hashing already has a lot of trust built up with their Proof of Everything (POE) concept.

EDIT 2: Sorry if i missed this. Looks like allinvain has a new site -Cryptoboreas in Montreal. Great prices too. It simply makes sense that Quebec and NFLD/Labrabor have the lowest costs globally.

Interesting. I just ran some math on their hardware offers, it doesn't look too great. They charge a $0.00115/gh maintenance fee on their S7s, which works out to ~$5.60/day or $0.19/KWh. They seem more like a high-margin cloud mining company, which isn't exactly what I'm going for here.

Allinvain's Cryptoboreas site is actually located in Labrador AFAIK, although he does pick up hardware from Montreal and Toronto. I think he used to host in montreal for a while, though.

Right now this whole thread is pretty dead because of the lack of competition in the marketplace. The only company willing to sell hardware to the public is bitmain. Luckily, we've gotten news of upcoming units from Spondoolies (they've said they will open up public SP50 sales "soon"), LK-Group, and Avalon. Once those hit the market, prices should come down a bit, and we can seriously consider raising money to buy units.

Nice idea ATCkit, hope it works out.

Quick side note, SP50's start at 1PH min order. Probably better of aiming at S7's to get started.

Yikes, that's steep. Where did you hear that, by the way? I've gotten very little information from SP-Tech about the SP50.

[allinvain]

Yes we are located in Labrador just like GND. We can have hardware delivered to Labrador too. For large scale hardware it's the only way to do it.

[philipma1957]

The sp50 is pretty much dead in the water.

I have an idea for s-7 owners we could send them as a group to gnd if the minimum is 30kwatts we need 25

S-7's

I could ship 2 s-7's

[torepia]

I feel we should wait for something that is more power efficient than the S7. The S7 is hard to ROI!
I would however be interested in buying 2 directly from bitmain in a group buy, and getting it hosted.

[notlist3d]

I feel we should wait for something that is more power efficient than the S7. The S7 is hard to ROI!
I would however be interested in buying 2 directly from bitmain in a group buy, and getting it hosted.

The problem with this mentality is you are always waiting.  Thinking you will wait for next best, a lot tend to say that and never buy a new miner.

Best price will be if avalon and bitmain compete a little.  And once BW miner is out then it gets very interesting.   

[torepia]

So, get started with 25x S7? 30 kW. At least we got the structure up and running for future investments!

[armedmilitia]

So, get started with 25x S7? 30 kW. At least we got the structure up and running for future investments!

That's an interesting point. We could start out with a small buy of hardware and ramp up from there. On the other hand, we likely won't get any volume discounts for a 30KW purchase, so there's probably going to be little interest in the small buy.

[carlosmnk]

So, get started with 25x S7? 30 kW. At least we got the structure up and running for future investments!

I think the AVALON 6 is a better option if it can be underclocked...

Something like 30 or 35 avalon6 to start? 

[armedmilitia]

I've contacted Avalon for a quote on 10, 30, 50 and 100 units. I guess we'll wait and see. 

[mavericklm]

avalon 6

better batch 6 of s7!

[notlist3d]

avalon 6

better batch 6 of s7!

All depends on the underclock which I'm hoping we will see anyday.  If the Avalon 6 has the underclock like 4.1 you will want these to be able to underclock.

But if it's underclock is not like 4.1 then it's not as big of deal.  So we should see pretty soon hopefully on underclock.

[torepia]

I've contacted Avalon for a quote on 10, 30, 50 and 100 units. I guess we'll wait and see. 

Awesome!

But, how should we do this exactly? I guess we need to make some kind of corp/org?

[armedmilitia]

Updates:

• Ehash doesn't seem to be selling the Avalon6, and they redirected me to BlockC. Those guys got back to me with a quote! I'm not going to post it in the thread (yet!) but it wasn't a bad offer.
• I've sent bitmain a very similar email, and have yet to hear back from them.
• SP-Tech got back to my second email. No change in status since last time: No additional orders, no pricing, no MOQ, and no schedule for future production. The SP50 won't be an option for a while.

I've contacted Avalon for a quote on 10, 30, 50 and 100 units. I guess we'll wait and see.  

Awesome!

But, how should we do this exactly? I guess we need to make some kind of corp/org?

I have no experience with incorporation and all my knowledge comes from a few hours of research. I remember a user called Dr Charles earlier in this thread recommended incorporating as well, and he said he had a ton of experience: I've sent him a PM about it. Hopefully he gets back to me!

As for PSUs, I think we should go for Finksy's 2880W units: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=966135.0

[valkir]

I do agree with the choice of the PSU.

Incorporation could also be a good idea. 

[armedmilitia]

WOOOHOO! I just got off the phone with blockC, and I can post something very, very rare to this thread: ACTUAL NUMBERS!
I made sure they were OK with me sharing this information, so put your lawsuits/pitchforks away. 

Unit Cost:
For a group buy of moderate size they can do $1350/unit, raspberry pis included. We may get a small additional discount if we get a buttload of them (50+).

Shipping Cost:
If we get less than 50 units it will cost $50/unit (via UPS, ew),
If we get over 50 units they can ship via air freight. That's ~$20 a unit, and can get lower if we buy more. If we got 100 units (I know, it's a big ask), I've been told it goes down to $10 per unit.

This beats the S7 price per TH, arrives earlier, and has practically the same efficiency (0.28J/GH for the S7, 0.29J/GH for the Avalon6). I've been told you can get the Avalon6 down to 0.28 if you use very efficient PSUs, which we are planning on getting with them.

Timeframe:
These are batch 2 avalon6 miners. They are scheduled to arrive at BlockC November 20th, and should arrive at GND/CryptoBoreas about a week after that. If we don't raise funds in time, no big deal. There will be a batch 3, 4, etc. Of course, I'd prefer sooner rather than later.

Undervolting:
The Avalon6 has a string design, so it will be hard to undervolt. Much like the S5/S7, you'll need to actually adjust the input voltage into the miner. It's not very practical, although blockC is planning on making a DC/DC converter in the future that will do the trick.

Note that the S7 does not have a 0.25J/GH efficiency as many people believe. If you look at the specs page for batch 6, it says 0.25J/GH + 10%.

[carlosmnk]

WOOOHOO! I just got off the phone with blockC, and I can post something very, very rare to this thread: ACTUAL NUMBERS!
I made sure they were OK with me sharing this information, so put your lawsuits/pitchforks away. 

Unit Cost:
For a group buy of moderate size they can do $1350/unit, raspberry pis included. We may get a small additional discount if we get a buttload of them (50+).

Shipping Cost:
If we get less than 50 units it will cost $50/unit (via UPS, ew),
If we get over 50 units they can ship via air freight. That's ~$20 a unit, and can get lower if we buy more. If we got 100 units (I know, it's a big ask), I've been told it goes down to $10 per unit.

This beats the S7 price per TH, arrives earlier, and has practically the same efficiency (0.28J/GH for the S7, 0.29J/GH for the Avalon6). I've been told you can get the Avalon6 down to 0.28 if you use very efficient PSUs, which we are planning on getting with them.

Timeframe:
These are batch 2 avalon6 miners. They are scheduled to arrive at BlockC November 20th, and should arrive at GND/CryptoBoreas about a week after that. If we don't raise funds in time, no big deal. There will be a batch 3, 4, etc. Of course, I'd prefer sooner rather than later.

Undervolting:
The Avalon6 has a string design, so it will be hard to undervolt. Much like the S5/S7, you'll need to actually adjust the input voltage into the miner. It's not very practical, although blockC is planning on making a DC/DC converter in the future that will do the trick.

Note that the S7 does not have a 0.25J/GH efficiency as many people believe. If you look at the specs page for batch 6, it says 0.25J/GH + 10%.

Hi, my vote is for Cryptoboreas, i have with them one S7, one SP20 and two S5 (they are setting up last two units now). 

[armedmilitia]

I agree that right now cryptoboreas is the best option pricewise right now. I'm pretty sure GND hasn't finished their datacenter expansion yet, which means their rates are still going to be quite a bit higher than CB.

On the other hand, great north data has a 24/7 onsite tech, something cryptoboreas doesn't have. If there's a problem, its likely that we will get our miners back up and running faster if we go with GND.

It really depends if you guys think its worth it or not.

[philipma1957]

WOOOHOO! I just got off the phone with blockC, and I can post something very, very rare to this thread: ACTUAL NUMBERS!
I made sure they were OK with me sharing this information, so put your lawsuits/pitchforks away. 

Unit Cost:
For a group buy of moderate size they can do $1350/unit, raspberry pis included. We may get a small additional discount if we get a buttload of them (50+).

Shipping Cost:
If we get less than 50 units it will cost $50/unit (via UPS, ew),
If we get over 50 units they can ship via air freight. That's ~$20 a unit, and can get lower if we buy more. If we got 100 units (I know, it's a big ask), I've been told it goes down to $10 per unit.

This beats the S7 price per TH, arrives earlier, and has practically the same efficiency (0.28J/GH for the S7, 0.29J/GH for the Avalon6). I've been told you can get the Avalon6 down to 0.28 if you use very efficient PSUs, which we are planning on getting with them.

Timeframe:
These are batch 2 avalon6 miners. They are scheduled to arrive at BlockC November 20th, and should arrive at GND/CryptoBoreas about a week after that. If we don't raise funds in time, no big deal. There will be a batch 3, 4, etc. Of course, I'd prefer sooner rather than later.

Undervolting:
The Avalon6 has a string design, so it will be hard to undervolt. Much like the S5/S7, you'll need to actually adjust the input voltage into the miner. It's not very practical, although blockC is planning on making a DC/DC converter in the future that will do the trick.

Note that the S7 does not have a 0.25J/GH efficiency as many people believe. If you look at the specs page for batch 6, it says 0.25J/GH + 10%.

I know a little about GND  I know nothing about CryptoBoreas

So what is the link for CB?

What are power costs for GND vs CB?

GND is in Canada where is CB?

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The theory of undervolting an avalon 6 is yet to be proven or tested. 

In a 5, 6 ,7, 8  cent a kwatt  location it is not much of an issue.

That is more for someone like me my winter in house rate = 10 cents my summer in house rate = 17 cents.

Running 1 avalon 6 at 10 volts for the summer is something I may do.

[armedmilitia]

I know a little about GND  I know nothing about CryptoBoreas

So what is the link for CB?

What are power costs for GND vs CB?

GND is in Canada where is CB?

CryptoBoreas is the rebranded name of Allinvain's hosting service. Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1170850.0

CB advertised $65 CAD/KW ($49 USD) for a 6 month term, great north data advertises $60/KW (USD), but can go a bit lower on a 6mo term and a large amount of hardware. Great North Data will have much lower rates in a few months, but right now CB wins.

The datacenter for CryptoBoreas is in Labrador, Canada, and although they don't specify what city they are in it's safe to assume they are based out of Goose Bay. No other city in the province has the right combination of power costs and reliable internet access.