[Proposal] Mining Co-Op

[torepia]

ROI for 1 unit:


ROI for 30 units:


What do you think about these numbers? Ofc there is some hidden costs.

[1714675096]

1714675096

[1714675096]

1714675096

[1714675096]

1714675096

[armedmilitia]

Those figures don't include the halving, shipping ($20-50), import duties($67.5), or PSUs. For PSU cost, bulk buying the "royale with cheese" package from finksy could probably get down to $200/unit shipped (maybe lower), and that package can power exactly 2.5 Avalon6 units. Call that 80 for the PSU.

Our total cost per miner and PSU @ 50 units purchased would be $1542.5 USD a unit.

I'm going to write a quick python script to crunch these numbers.

[philipma1957]

I don't see the diff number you used  did you punch in 2 % per jump 3% per jump

I see the monthly diff goes up but how did you get it?

Never mind I found the number 5% per month.  you kept coins flat at 380.

and you have break even around the ½ ing in July

I think that could all happen.
 I actually think price will do better then 380 from now to July.

ROI for 1 unit:


ROI for 30 units:


What do you think about these numbers? Ofc there is some hidden costs.

[torepia]

Those figures don't include the halving, shipping ($20-50), import duties($67.5), or PSUs. For PSU cost, bulk buying the "royale with cheese" package from finksy could probably get down to $200/unit shipped (maybe lower), and that package can power exactly 2.5 Avalon6 units. Call that 80 for the PSU.

Our total cost per miner and PSU @ 50 units purchased would be $1542.5 USD a unit.

I'm going to write a quick python script to crunch these numbers.

Knew I missed something ^^. Get back to us asap with your script

How do you guys want to do this reward wise? Do you want to build a "company" of sorts, pool all resources and rewards to buy more hardware etc?
Or do you want to split all costs and rewards according to how many miners you "own"?

Personally I want to grow this thing into something big, by pooling resources. I'm a firm believer in bitcoin. I'm not saying you can't combine the two tho, just want to know what you guys think.

Phil: I also believe the price would be higher at July, and much higher in the future.

I'm ready right now to contribute with 5 Avalon's at that price.

[armedmilitia]

Okay, I finished my little script.

Here's the source if anyone is interested in taking a look.

Code:

# This is written in python 3
# Feel free to use this in your own projects

def truncate(f, n):
    '''Truncates/pads a float f to n decimal places without rounding'''
    s = '{}'.format(f)
    if 'e' in s or 'E' in s:
        return '{0:.{1}f}'.format(f, n)
    i, p, d = s.partition('.')
    return '.'.join([i, (d+'0'*n)[:n]])

###################
# HARCODED VALUES #
###################
#Cost in USD of miner (grand total)
minerCost = 1542.5

#Revenue of miner $/day
minerRevenue = 10.21

#Power cost of miner $/day
minerPowerCost = 1.67

#this block should be mined on November 27th
startBlock = 385389

#this is my projected difficulty on the 27th
startDiff = 66500000000
 
#this is the starting % increase every two weeks
expectedDiffIncrease = 4.0

#this is the % change in difficulty increase every two weeks
diffIncreaseDelta = -3.0

breakeven = False
revenue = 0
daysElapsed = 0 #in days
currentBlock = startBlock
currentDiff = startDiff
print("Simulation start: \nDifficulty is {}. \nProfit is ${} per day.\nExpected difficulty increase is {}%, with future increases changing by {}%.".format(truncate(currentDiff, 2), truncate(minerRevenue - minerPowerCost, 2), truncate(expectedDiffIncrease, 2), truncate(diffIncreaseDelta, 2)))
while True: 
	#1 loop = 1 block
	if (currentBlock % 2016 == 0):
		currentDiff *= (100 + expectedDiffIncrease)/100
		minerRevenue *= (100 - expectedDiffIncrease)/100
		print("Difficulty is now {} (+{}%). Profit is now ${} per day".format(truncate(currentDiff, 2), truncate(expectedDiffIncrease, 2), truncate(minerRevenue - minerPowerCost, 2)))
		expectedDiffIncrease *= (100 + diffIncreaseDelta)/100

	if (currentBlock == 420000):
		minerRevenue /= 2
		print("The block reward has halved. Profit is now ${} per day".format(truncate(minerRevenue - minerPowerCost, 2)))

	if (minerRevenue - minerPowerCost <= 0):
		print("Miner is no longer profitable. Ending simulation\n")
		break

	if (currentBlock - startBlock) % int((144*(100+expectedDiffIncrease)/100)//1) == 0: #calculates real time, note that this accounts for less time between blocks when diff spikes
		daysElapsed += 1

	if currentBlock == 450000:
		print("End of simulation reached.\n")
		break

	if (revenue > minerCost and breakeven == False):
		print("BREAK EVEN REACHED ON DAY {}!".format(daysElapsed))
		breakeven = True #hell yes


	revenue += minerRevenue/24/6 - minerPowerCost/24/6
	currentBlock += 1

print("{} days have elapsed.".format(daysElapsed))
print("Your total revenue after hosting costs: {}".format(truncate(revenue,2)))
print("Your net gain/loss: ${}".format(truncate(revenue-minerCost,2)))
	

Here's the results, guessing an initial 4.0% increase every 2016 blocks. This assumes that the difficulty increase changes by -3% every adjustment.

Code:

Simulation start: 
Difficulty is 66500000000.00. 
Profit is $8.54 per day.
Expected difficulty increase is 4.00%, with future increases changing by -3.00%.
Difficulty is now 69160000000.00 (+4.00%). Profit is now $8.13 per day
Difficulty is now 71843408000.00 (+3.88%). Profit is now $7.75 per day
Difficulty is now 74547306503.50 (+3.76%). Profit is now $7.39 per day
Difficulty is now 77268799058.20 (+3.65%). Profit is now $7.06 per day
Difficulty is now 80005019548.00 (+3.54%). Profit is now $6.75 per day
Difficulty is now 82753140848.50 (+3.43%). Profit is now $6.46 per day
Difficulty is now 85510382834.30 (+3.33%). Profit is now $6.19 per day
Difficulty is now 88274019729.60 (+3.23%). Profit is now $5.94 per day
Difficulty is now 91041386800.50 (+3.13%). Profit is now $5.70 per day
Difficulty is now 93809886395.30 (+3.04%). Profit is now $5.47 per day
Difficulty is now 96576993338.10 (+2.94%). Profit is now $5.26 per day
Difficulty is now 99340259691.70 (+2.86%). Profit is now $5.06 per day
Difficulty is now 102097318904.73 (+2.77%). Profit is now $4.88 per day
Difficulty is now 104845889362.98 (+2.69%). Profit is now $4.70 per day
Difficulty is now 107583777367.73 (+2.61%). Profit is now $4.53 per day
Difficulty is now 110308879565.73 (+2.53%). Profit is now $4.38 per day
Difficulty is now 113019184857.03 (+2.45%). Profit is now $4.23 per day
The block reward has halved. Profit is now $1.28 per day
Difficulty is now 115712775808.78 (+2.38%). Profit is now $1.21 per day
Difficulty is now 118387829603.62 (+2.31%). Profit is now $1.14 per day
Difficulty is now 121042618552.48 (+2.24%). Profit is now $1.08 per day
Difficulty is now 123675510201.35 (+2.17%). Profit is now $1.02 per day
Difficulty is now 126284967062.23 (+2.10%). Profit is now $0.96 per day
BREAK EVEN REACHED ON DAY 307!
Difficulty is now 128869545997.81 (+2.04%). Profit is now $0.91 per day
Difficulty is now 131427897289.49 (+1.98%). Profit is now $0.85 per day
Difficulty is now 133958763417.29 (+1.92%). Profit is now $0.81 per day
Difficulty is now 136460977579.81 (+1.86%). Profit is now $0.76 per day
Difficulty is now 138933461981.43 (+1.81%). Profit is now $0.72 per day
Difficulty is now 141375225912.73 (+1.75%). Profit is now $0.67 per day
Difficulty is now 143785363649.27 (+1.70%). Profit is now $0.63 per day
Difficulty is now 146163052192.63 (+1.65%). Profit is now $0.60 per day
Difficulty is now 148507548876.19 (+1.60%). Profit is now $0.56 per day
Difficulty is now 150818188857.25 (+1.55%). Profit is now $0.52 per day
End of simulation reached.

440 days have elapsed.
Your total revenue after hosting costs: 1641.04
Your net gain/loss: $98.54

My difficulty estimate is not very optimistic, although it's far from a worst case. We could do far better, or we could stand to lose money overall. And remember, this assumes a static BTC price, it could go anywhere.

How do you guys want to do this reward wise? Do you want to build a "company" of sorts, pool all resources and rewards to buy more hardware etc?
Or do you want to split all costs and rewards according to how many miners you "own"?

I want this project to have as little risk of scam as possible. That's why I've proposed multisig to collect funds, and after purchasing the miners never holding funds again. Using Kano's CKPool we can pay out mining revenue directly to multiple recipients.

Essentially, all we're doing is a group buy and group hosting. Simple!

[carlosmnk]

How do you guys want to do this reward wise? Do you want to build a "company" of sorts, pool all resources and rewards to buy more hardware etc?
Or do you want to split all costs and rewards according to how many miners you "own"?

I want this project to have as little risk of scam as possible. That's why I've proposed multisig to collect funds, and after purchasing the miners never holding funds again. Using Kano's CKPool we can pay out mining revenue directly to multiple recipients.

Essentially, all we're doing is a group buy and group hosting. Simple!

Well, i think there is not the same buy a % of an SP-50 than 30 avalon-6. In the first case, we need to make a system to do multiple recipients. Buying 30 avalon-6 we can do it simple:

1.- We must buy entire miners (1, 2, 3, 5). With that we can hash with it where we want (and change it every time we want). And at the end, we can assign 1 miner to every one. And the miners configuration could be individually.
2.- We pay the miners as a group, so every one pay an escrow (the same) to make the deal with de seller. This escrow pay the seller the entire purchuase.
3.- We can buy the PSU as a group, and pay for them as a service. At the end, we can sell them as a group. As before we can pay an escrow to make the PSU deal.
4.- We pay the hosting as a group, so we do the same with the hosting fees. If we pay month by month, we can make the payments to the escrow, who make the last pay to the host.
5.- And finally, we can do more things if every one is happy... 

What do you think?

[torepia]

I want this project to have as little risk of scam as possible. That's why I've proposed multisig to collect funds, and after purchasing the miners never holding funds again. Using Kano's CKPool we can pay out mining revenue directly to multiple recipients.

Essentially, all we're doing is a group buy and group hosting. Simple!

Sign me up, asap. GND sounds good tbh, but we should get the future electricity price decrease in writing. Or some kind og guarantee

[dogie]

What do you think about these numbers? Ofc there is some hidden costs.

[For newbies remember these are speculative simulations, they could turn out to be entirely wrong].


You've left 2.5% fee in, you could take that out and will actually make a sizeable difference.

[armedmilitia]

Well, i think there is not the same buy a % of an SP-50 than 30 avalon-6. In the first case, we need to make a system to do multiple recipients. Buying 30 avalon-6 we can do it simple:

1.- We must buy entire miners (1, 2, 3, 5). With that we can hash with it where we want (and change it every time we want). And at the end, we can assign 1 miner to every one. And the miners configuration could be individually.
2.- We pay the miners as a group, so every one pay an escrow (the same) to make the deal with de seller. This escrow pay the seller the entire purchuase.
3.- We can buy the PSU as a group, and pay for them as a service. At the end, we can sell them as a group. As before we can pay an escrow to make the PSU deal.
4.- We pay the hosting as a group, so we do the same with the hosting fees. If we pay month by month, we can make the payments to the escrow, who make the last pay to the host.
5.- And finally, we can do more things if every one is happy...  

What do you think?

I like that way. Then we aren't even selling shares in some sort of entity, you will have control (and ownership) of your own miner. However, we shouldn't pay month to month for hosting, as that will drive our hosting rate pretty far up by a huge margin! I was thinking we all go in for a 6 month term, then we can see whoever wants to stick around or sell their hardware.

Instead of using an escrow agent like ognasty we could do 5/6 or 3/4 multisig with the largest reputable participants in the group buy holding the keys. We save the escrow fee that way.

Well, that's that then. I think we have this whole thing planned out. It looks like we have considerable interest in the plan as it stands now.

We still have a little bit of ground to cover before we make this thing happen:

• Negotiate an actual cost for the PSUs.
• Figure out who will hold keys. So far, I believe phillip and notlist have shown interest (correct me if I'm wrong), plus there's me. We'll all need to use the latest version of armory on a secure PC. Dogie, if you're interested, I'm sure we'd all like you to hold on to one. Anyone else feel free to step up and nominate yourself.
• Do a test transaction or two with multisig just to get the hang of it (so we dont screw up and lose your money)
• Confirm hosting rates with cryptoboreas.

And as for dogie's comment on projections: yes, we have very little idea of what's coming. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Note that actual mining revenue, even on 0% fee pplns, will only give you 98% of what you expect because of orphan blocks.

[allinvain]

I agree that right now cryptoboreas is the best option pricewise right now. I'm pretty sure GND hasn't finished their datacenter expansion yet, which means their rates are still going to be quite a bit higher than CB.

On the other hand, great north data has a 24/7 onsite tech, something cryptoboreas doesn't have. If there's a problem, its likely that we will get our miners back up and running faster if we go with GND.

It really depends if you guys think its worth it or not.

That is definitely true, but it is something that we plan to have in the future. However, all our miners go on switched PDUs so if remote reboot is necessary that is an option. You guys can designate one guy to keep an eye on the gear and who will reboot gear when/if necessary. I do hope these Avalon6 miners are stable.

[Searing]

 So just to be clear on your proposal at least equip wise about say 1.5k to get a unit in this endeavor? I realize you are just trying to figure this out..but at least for this
amount I'm somewhere in the ballpark (if not at home base)

thanks just watching to see if I too want to play


edit: duh caught up on the thread have above answered...so say about 1600 usd and we get control of 1 miner ..paid out as a group per whatever schedule.....(some miners go bad ..but paid as a group?). So the total ball park coast for 6 months with hosting?

got the rest from the screens posted here etc

am I caught up now? and such? so...just sit on hands and wait for the announcement of go/no go more or less at this point in time?

(off to run numbers)

[torepia]

What do you think about these numbers? Ofc there is some hidden costs.

[For newbies remember these are speculative simulations, they could turn out to be entirely wrong].


You've left 2.5% fee in, you could take that out and will actually make a sizeable difference.

I actually put it in, the default is 1%. I like to calc with Antpool's PPS fee as I feel this number is quite realistic. Don't have to deal with PPLNS luck variables in this calculation!

[Searing]

Well my rough figures at approx 1600 USD a unit (1 unit) and the info from other screens on speed/watts/etc

Also assuming the 0.06 elec and the 5% difficulty and such on previous screens I get something like the below as a very rough idea ...

(prob wrong but here it is) NINE month ROI if this is anywhere close to correct...




p.s. posted this to my Imgur page. Here is the link to my setup if interested. lostgonzo.imgur.com The KNC Jupiter 550gh unit on the
bottom shelf is off and used as a gravity assist device to keep my miner bench down The others are 2 Titan Miners running at 350mh Scrypt for LTC to BTC. Alas the last
of Home Mining for me when the Titans go to "Door Stop Status"

well I'm sure someone will find something off on the above for me to fix on this chart..again just rough and out there

[torepia]

Well, i think there is not the same buy a % of an SP-50 than 30 avalon-6. In the first case, we need to make a system to do multiple recipients. Buying 30 avalon-6 we can do it simple:

1.- We must buy entire miners (1, 2, 3, 5). With that we can hash with it where we want (and change it every time we want). And at the end, we can assign 1 miner to every one. And the miners configuration could be individually.
2.- We pay the miners as a group, so every one pay an escrow (the same) to make the deal with de seller. This escrow pay the seller the entire purchuase.
3.- We can buy the PSU as a group, and pay for them as a service. At the end, we can sell them as a group. As before we can pay an escrow to make the PSU deal.
4.- We pay the hosting as a group, so we do the same with the hosting fees. If we pay month by month, we can make the payments to the escrow, who make the last pay to the host.
5.- And finally, we can do more things if every one is happy...  

What do you think?

I like that way. Then we aren't even selling shares in some sort of entity, you will have control (and ownership) of your own miner. However, we shouldn't pay month to month for hosting, as that will drive our hosting rate pretty far up by a huge margin! I was thinking we all go in for a 6 month term, then we can see whoever wants to stick around or sell their hardware.

Instead of using an escrow agent like ognasty we could do 5/6 or 3/4 multisig with the largest reputable participants in the group buy holding the keys. We save the escrow fee that way.

Well, that's that then. I think we have this whole thing planned out. It looks like we have considerable interest in the plan as it stands now.

We still have a little bit of ground to cover before we make this thing happen:

• Negotiate an actual cost for the PSUs.
• Figure out who will hold keys. So far, I believe phillip and notlist have shown interest (correct me if I'm wrong), plus there's me. We'll all need to use the latest version of armory on a secure PC. Dogie, if you're interested, I'm sure we'd all like you to hold on to one. Anyone else feel free to step up and nominate yourself.
• Do a test transaction or two with multisig just to get the hang of it (so we dont screw up and lose your money)
• Confirm hosting rates with cryptoboreas.

And as for dogie's comment on projections: yes, we have very little idea of what's coming. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Note that actual mining revenue, even on 0% fee pplns, will only give you 98% of what you expect because of orphan blocks.

I'm not quite sure what multi-sig is, but I guess it's transactions that requiers mutiple signatures to be considered signed?
If so, what happens when you get hit by a bus? Is the money gone? Or does it only need 5/6 or 3/4 signatures to be verified?
I wouldn't mind Phillip, notlisted, dogie and you to hold keys, but I would like to know who they are, so that I can find the key-holders if needed. (So I know where to send the SR hitman.)

I could also hold a key if needed, but it's not a big deal for me.

Lets get this ball rolling!

Edit:
Searing, sweet setup!
I'd say 9 months ROI is pretty 'accurate' with the numbers we have available today. But, who knows if we will see 10-15% diff increases or 5%. Or what the BTC price will be.
We should all be prepared to lose our money!

[schwab]

I'm just going to pop in since there is all the talk of ROI and individual payouts. I'm nobody, a lurker, a miner. So these are just thoughts from a semi outside perspective.

The idea that was behind this thread and the thread title are outstanding concepts. The idea of multi-sig fund management is an amazing concept, it starts to diverge when it becomes a group buy scenario. Group buying mining units, group buying hosting, escrow for purchase, a different escrow for hosting. It holds a lot of trust in certain individuals, unless this is all part of the OP post 4-6 multi-sig account as the escrow holders, but I see no mention of that specifically, perhaps it is just assumed.

The idea of a true mining co-op is astonishing. Incorporated as a mining firm, with eyes set on the future. Elected board members from across the world using multi-sig funds to conduct business on behalf of the co-op, with individual hash power as voters in the incorporated co-op business. Elected members donating time to the duties of the co-op to better every share holder, think secretary, treasurer, business manager.

Moving beyond individual ROI to the betterment and growth of the Co-Op and reinvestment of funds to expand, both in mining capacity and revenue streams. Building out or implementing blockchain related services (driveshare storj, micropayment systems, own datacenter/hosting).

Shares can be bought and sold, and include the voting rights, with additional expansions adding shares. Share holders would receive small profits from the additional sales and revenue on agreed upon time segments.

Voted upon bylaws and directives. A miniature bitcoin system with consensus, share holders deciding what is best to move the Co-Op further along, or flat out end and split revenue.

This is somewhat how my electric company operates, they have a semi monopoly on the area of course, but every user is a voting member of the co-op and extra profits are sent out every few years (it amounts to nothing $23 since 2006), but the larger users get a larger portion, and we all have voting rights at share holder meetings, and each have a vote on our board members.

I just think, if you are going to go for, go for. If you are putting your money into something just to get a few dollars off, that's thinking of the short game. If you are investing in yourselves, this technology, and the future there are many paths to choose. Starting a co-op that could become a payment processor for the future, a data center for the next generation, and at the same time increase revenue while cutting costs is a titillating idea.

It's late, I'm red-bulled up, I apologize.

[Searing]

Well, i think there is not the same buy a % of an SP-50 than 30 avalon-6. In the first case, we need to make a system to do multiple recipients. Buying 30 avalon-6 we can do it simple:

1.- We must buy entire miners (1, 2, 3, 5). With that we can hash with it where we want (and change it every time we want). And at the end, we can assign 1 miner to every one. And the miners configuration could be individually.
2.- We pay the miners as a group, so every one pay an escrow (the same) to make the deal with de seller. This escrow pay the seller the entire purchuase.
3.- We can buy the PSU as a group, and pay for them as a service. At the end, we can sell them as a group. As before we can pay an escrow to make the PSU deal.
4.- We pay the hosting as a group, so we do the same with the hosting fees. If we pay month by month, we can make the payments to the escrow, who make the last pay to the host.
5.- And finally, we can do more things if every one is happy...  

What do you think?

I like that way. Then we aren't even selling shares in some sort of entity, you will have control (and ownership) of your own miner. However, we shouldn't pay month to month for hosting, as that will drive our hosting rate pretty far up by a huge margin! I was thinking we all go in for a 6 month term, then we can see whoever wants to stick around or sell their hardware.

Instead of using an escrow agent like ognasty we could do 5/6 or 3/4 multisig with the largest reputable participants in the group buy holding the keys. We save the escrow fee that way.

Well, that's that then. I think we have this whole thing planned out. It looks like we have considerable interest in the plan as it stands now.

We still have a little bit of ground to cover before we make this thing happen:

• Negotiate an actual cost for the PSUs.
• Figure out who will hold keys. So far, I believe phillip and notlist have shown interest (correct me if I'm wrong), plus there's me. We'll all need to use the latest version of armory on a secure PC. Dogie, if you're interested, I'm sure we'd all like you to hold on to one. Anyone else feel free to step up and nominate yourself.
• Do a test transaction or two with multisig just to get the hang of it (so we dont screw up and lose your money)
• Confirm hosting rates with cryptoboreas.

And as for dogie's comment on projections: yes, we have very little idea of what's coming. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Note that actual mining revenue, even on 0% fee pplns, will only give you 98% of what you expect because of orphan blocks.

I'm not quite sure what multi-sig is, but I guess it's transactions that requiers mutiple signatures to be considered signed?
If so, what happens when you get hit by a bus? Is the money gone? Or does it only need 5/6 or 3/4 signatures to be verified?
I wouldn't mind Phillip, notlisted, dogie and you to hold keys, but I would like to know who they are, so that I can find the key-holders if needed. (So I know where to send the SR hitman.)

I could also hold a key if needed, but it's not a big deal for me.

Lets get this ball rolling!

Edit:
Searing, sweet setup!
I'd say 9 months ROI is pretty 'accurate' with the numbers we have available today. But, who knows if we will see 10-15% diff increases or 5%. Or what the BTC price will be.
We should all be prepared to lose our money!

Yeah all I know is ..if I want any access to a MINER virtual only via GUI or /ssh or whatever it will have to be hosted. At 13c kwh where I'm at that boat don't float for sha-256 and BTC. It does float for Scrypt yet. Truth be told a person (I'm talking blasphemy here ....turn away from reading if you think BTC is beyond reproach from and only thing worth mining) ..anyway ....truth be told this COULD (don't know) work better with scrypt miners...but the only LEGIT ones I've heard about ..the price point don't work and they are 6 months away....although I hope they are correct..because IF such scrypt miners did work 6 months from now ..it would be Quite! the btc price pop imho (over $500) so the only 'legit' game in town would probably be this project...

But again 1600 usd with everything hosting etc at 0.06c kwh added Jan 2016 timeline....and what 9 month ROI..well ..doing so you'd kinda HAVE to be counting on BTC price above say $450 by that point imho....so the odds are still long on this ..but hey ...good to do the figures to know for sure......

anyway how i see it at this mangled no info of any reliability at this time

[MrBitcoinMiner]

That is definitely true, but it is something that we plan to have in the future. However, all our miners go on switched PDUs so if remote reboot is necessary that is an option. You guys can designate one guy to keep an eye on the gear and who will reboot gear when/if necessary. I do hope these Avalon6 miners are stable.

In general I am all for us securing the best hosting rate but there are other considerations as well.

I am very concerned that this cryptoboreas company has come out of nowhere and appears to have no customers except this carlos guy. Assuming their operation is legit, the fact that they are doing this all with nobody on site makes me worry. Switched PDUs are a great idea if a machine needs to be rebooted. What if a fan burns out or a machine stops responding to reboots? Do we just suffer 100% downtime until allinvain has enough time to make the trek to his facility?

What's also concerning is that although he claims to run the place remotely he apparently doesn't even have that part of the mine operating yet and is looking for someone who knows how to program to build him a system to run a mine remotely.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171705.120

So from what I can see, GND is an established hoster who have been around for a while with good prices and no customer complaints. Cryptoboreas is only a month or two old and also offers good prices but potentially at a massive service cost.

The CB price is good but requires 6 months of prepayment. I bet if we approached GND with CB's price they would match it or come pretty close so we can take advantage of the best price AND the best service. If we can get some assurances CB is actually legit I would really consider going with them if their price is significantly better than GNDs but I don't think the CB risk is worth taking if it's only saving us a buck or two a kw.

I also think torepia has a good idea about getting everything in writing.

I am fine with philipma and dogie having the keys since they are long-established members with good reputations. Thank you also to armedmilitia for doing all the legwork to put this deal together and I look forward to seeing final pricing.

[Searing]

I'm just going to pop in since there is all the talk of ROI and individual payouts. I'm nobody, a lurker, a miner. So these are just thoughts from a semi outside perspective.

The idea that was behind this thread and the thread title are outstanding concepts. The idea of multi-sig fund management is an amazing concept, it starts to diverge when it becomes a group buy scenario. Group buying mining units, group buying hosting, escrow for purchase, a different escrow for hosting. It holds a lot of trust in certain individuals, unless this is all part of the OP post 4-6 multi-sig account as the escrow holders, but I see no mention of that specifically, perhaps it is just assumed.

The idea of a true mining co-op is astonishing. Incorporated as a mining firm, with eyes set on the future. Elected board members from across the world using multi-sig funds to conduct business on behalf of the co-op, with individual hash power as voters in the incorporated co-op business. Elected members donating time to the duties of the co-op to better every share holder, think secretary, treasurer, business manager.

Moving beyond individual ROI to the betterment and growth of the Co-Op and reinvestment of funds to expand, both in mining capacity and revenue streams. Building out or implementing blockchain related services (driveshare storj, micropayment systems, own datacenter/hosting).

Shares can be bought and sold, and include the voting rights, with additional expansions adding shares. Share holders would receive small profits from the additional sales and revenue on agreed upon time segments.

Voted upon bylaws and directives. A miniature bitcoin system with consensus, share holders deciding what is best to move the Co-Op further along, or flat out end and split revenue.

This is somewhat how my electric company operates, they have a semi monopoly on the area of course, but every user is a voting member of the co-op and extra profits are sent out every few years (it amounts to nothing $23 since 2006), but the larger users get a larger portion, and we all have voting rights at share holder meetings, and each have a vote on our board members.

I just think, if you are going to go for, go for. If you are putting your money into something just to get a few dollars off, that's thinking of the short game. If you are investing in yourselves, this technology, and the future there are many paths to choose. Starting a co-op that could become a payment processor for the future, a data center for the next generation, and at the same time increase revenue while cutting costs is a titillating idea.

It's late, I'm red-bulled up, I apologize.

Yeah I can deal with your concepts above also. My calcs were just 'napkin jottings'. But yeah there is more to such a notion then 'just' ROI. So yes I agree. Then again I always thought that my home miner operation would have been a hell of a lot more fun with 4 or more folk locally. It could be bigger (better toys)...less risk (better toys)....and someone to shoot the shit with about this crypto stuff...(did I mention better toys) ....I ran a big bbs game server Lost Gonzo BBS with 4 sysops..was a lot of fun..(dos etc) when one of the Sysops cracked in frustration and tried to toss the server off the roof we could talk him down...heh a lot of fun. Alas only 'foo...' er I mean 'enlightened type' to do this in my area. I know my friends have planned an 'intervention' when they know bitcoin will go all 'ponzi' and have to 'de-program me as a dang btc moonie" ...alas I keep making money and they are confused (their heart is in the right place .but still lonely in crypto land around here)

So yeah your scenario works if for no other reason at least it is a group effort even if 'virtual' in nature....and hell I can still drink beer on my couch with you all via Skype..so wtf it probably will work if BTC price and difficulty let the kite get off the ground

I've done everything WRONG since being a newbie in 2013 and still as of now am $11.5k usd ahead of last month with the price pop and still mining (setup: lostgonzo.imgur.com) so wtf newbie stupid and clueless seems to have worked so far. I'm ripe for a 'virtual' endeavor. Assuming we can get all the ducks in a row that is.

Side note: I'm a legal miner in the USA (don't ask it is a long story) but I probably can get whatever eguip I am responsible for at 25% equip deduction...assuming you run the biz at a profit for 5 years (I'll be at 4 in 2016) ...with (last I looked) 1/2 the equip depreciation off taxes the first year..so folk MAY want to look at how legit they want to run this.me I have NO choice...but mining ..even virtually these last 2 years would help me lots ..from the last 3 years...so may be worth the risk in my case just for the bona fides of such with the IRS showing I'm in it for the long haul all 5 years etc..anyway for those who may also be in a similar boat.caught in the 2013 IRS Guidelines (my bank had an error said i sent $99k (i sent $10k) overseas....to KNC....got all up in the air ..(btc was evil in 2013) i filed just in case...pointed out bank error....the bank tried to screw me saying i was not a legit biz...had the CPA biz modified tax forms to shut them down...figured they do that to save face ..was correct..so far have paid NO taxes due to 2014 lag and equip i got (kinda went overboard on equip)

anyway..thus WHY I'm a legal miner the rest of you run for the hills thou..I got caught (again seems to all gonna work out even steven thru luck thou...so can't complain...knock wood...er I mean $$$ to tax man wise a wash)..but the rest of you head for the hills (unless this mining co-op may also work for you legal in my manner)

anyway tangled webs ..but this co-op may serve my needs better then most anything else for miners etc and showing IRS I still be legit into 2017.

[MrBitcoinMiner]

Sorry I made a mistake in my earlier post. I accidentally linked back to this very thread when I was trying to link to the thread in which allinvain is looking for someone to write software to allow him to run CB remotely.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1239603

[allinvain]

In general I am all for us securing the best hosting rate but there are other considerations as well.

I am very concerned that this cryptoboreas company has come out of nowhere and appears to have no customers except this carlos guy. Assuming their operation is legit, the fact that they are doing this all with nobody on site makes me worry. Switched PDUs are a great idea if a machine needs to be rebooted. What if a fan burns out or a machine stops responding to reboots? Do we just suffer 100% downtime until allinvain has enough time to make the trek to his facility?

What's also concerning is that although he claims to run the place remotely he apparently doesn't even have that part of the mine operating yet and is looking for someone who knows how to program to build him a system to run a mine remotely.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171705.120

So from what I can see, GND is an established hoster who have been around for a while with good prices and no customer complaints. Cryptoboreas is only a month or two old and also offers good prices but potentially at a massive service cost.

The CB price is good but requires 6 months of prepayment. I bet if we approached GND with CB's price they would match it or come pretty close so we can take advantage of the best price AND the best service. If we can get some assurances CB is actually legit I would really consider going with them if their price is significantly better than GNDs but I don't think the CB risk is worth taking if it's only saving us a buck or two a kw.

I also think torepia has a good idea about getting everything in writing.

I am fine with philipma and dogie having the keys since they are long-established members with good reputations. Thank you also to armedmilitia for doing all the legwork to put this deal together and I look forward to seeing final pricing.

We have been around for a while - far more than a month or two. We have customers other than "this carlos guy" but most of them are not active on this forum. 

The system which we're seeking is to automate the management process not to "run a mine remotely." The less we have to do manually the more time we have to sip margaritas on a sandy beach!

The 6 month price does require pre-payment, but I'm sure we can offer that on a shorter 3 month pre-paid term if you're really nice to us If you're super nice and bring in a lot of killowatts we may even do more! We like to build long mutually beneficial and stable relationships with serious miners and we will do everything possible to keep said miners happy.