Ban appeal - TradeFortress; re theymos dox

[tf_banned_acc]

If you're going around posting people's personal information for no real reason other than just to annoy them, then that's trolling, which is not allowed.

Thanks for your response. I'd point out that there is a real conflict of interest created where staff members are able to self-adjudicate if there is a "real reason" and other members do not have this opportunity nor the benefit of doubt; but that's not very significant.

I think if you review my posts in this thread, especially in connection with posts other people have made in this thread, you can see that my purposes is to discuss the apparent double standard in doxxing, and the automatic bans given -- not to troll or to annoy. Let me elaborate:

My post was made in this thread in response to SaltySpitoon's comments, including:

I don't know anything about your ban, but I have personally seen two or three threads with Theymos dox in them on this site with no consequence to the OP or anyone else involved. I would expect that it was something else that you did. I don't have the info to know for certain, but that would be my first guess based on the info given.

and

Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.

When someone posts incorrect information that you know is incorrect, generally people have a tendency to correct it (if they care). I came across SaltySpitoon's incorrect speculation ("no consequence") and misinformed directions ("Staff Dox"), and rebutted those with my post.  

As you have said that the ban is for trolling, not for posting accurate theymos dox, then the actual accuracy of dox is irrelevant. Only the intent of the poster, and if the poster believes the dox is accurate is relevant.

My post mentioned a location where your dox can be found. The location I gave was not as specific as SaltySpitoon has said (see underlined). The only difference is that SaltySpitoon's directions were incorrect, while my directions were correct, but since you said the ban is for trolling (which is intent, not content), that should be irrelevant.

Again, if you review my posts you should be able to see that my intent was to add consideration to this thread and respond to incorrect claims/speculation made by SaltySpitoon, not to annoy or troll. I'd like to request a review of my ban.

Right now, the actions being taken creates the impression that you are banning people based on if they post your dox (or directions to dox), and not for trolling as you say.

[SaltySpitoon]

I still don't follow what you are saying. Nothing I said was incorrect. You are arguing that you shouldn't have been auto banned for posting a link that you knew caused you to be autobanned?

*edit* Bringing this over to this thread for context

{ self moved to a new thread }

@SaltySpitoon: I disagree. That's not what happened in my case. You gave relatively specific directions to where you believed theymos's dox could be found, because you seemed to believe that people have posted his dox w/o real consequence. I gave relatively specific directions to where theymos' dox could be found to correct your information, with the impression that what you posted was OK.

Neither of these circumstances involved trolling, or posting it for the purposes to annoy someone. This is looking like theymos is indiscriminately banning people, excessively I would say, in order to assert his power and prevent his dox from being disseminated -- not for moderation principles of trolling, spam, et al.

[tf_banned_acc]

I still don't follow what you are saying. Nothing I said was incorrect. You are arguing that you shouldn't have been auto banned for posting a link that you knew caused you to be autobanned?

I've never posted a link. I've posted directions to where theymos's dox could be found, with as much specificity as you did:

Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.

And no, I wasn't autobanned, I was manually banned by theymos.

Since you seem to be clearly unaware of what's going on (given by your repeated statements thinking that anyone posted links, your incorrect claims that there are any threads with theymos's dox in them, and your previous speculation that Xian01 got banned for something /other/ than posting theymos's dox), perhaps it's best to not speculate aimlessly? Especially in a thread that I've specifically structured, in order to avoid further off-topic, misinformed speculation from you?

[poeEDgar]

TradeFortress, very interesting timing, "getting yourself banned" directly after being called out for your involvement in the Hashie exit scam.

[SaltySpitoon]

I still don't follow what you are saying. Nothing I said was incorrect. You are arguing that you shouldn't have been auto banned for posting a link that you knew caused you to be autobanned?

I've never posted a link. I've posted directions to where theymos's dox could be found, with as much specificity as you did:

Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.

And no, I wasn't autobanned, I was manually banned by theymos.

Since you seem to be clearly unaware of what's going on (given by your repeated statements thinking that anyone posted links, your incorrect claims that there are any threads with theymos's dox in them, and your previous speculation that Xian01 got banned for something /other/ than posting theymos's dox), perhaps it's best to not speculate aimlessly?

Its nothing personal, its just that I don't believe you. I could be mistaken, but this would probably be on the order of the 100th time someone gets banned for something then claims its something other than it is. Seeing as I removed about 30 sets of instructions on how to get yourself banned by posting one of many autospam links from the last thread, your tf_banned account may have melted in with the other 5 throwaway accounts. Though I still feel as though some posts are missing, I'll have to get all posts restored in order to see who it was that got banned for posting the link, I was under the impression that is what got your main account.

The Facts:

• Theymos' identity has been openly discussed on Bitcointalk in the past. I've participated in a few of the conversations. If you wish to file through my 200 pages of posts, you will find it
• People are citing the fact that they get autobanned for posting a link as active agression against posting Theymos' dox
• 

If you are claiming that you got manually banned, then thats slightly different, but still addressed by the post below.

If you're going around posting people's personal information for no real reason other than just to annoy them, then that's trolling, which is not allowed.

Dox is currently more-or-less allowed for two reasons:
- It is sometimes useful when dealing with scammers for the community to collaboratively investigate the scammer. There have been a few cases where these collaborative investigations have led to good results.
- It is very difficult to define a consistent line between reasonable public information and non-public dox. For example, on Reddit the admins will sometimes delete posts which reference someone's real name even when this name can be found on the first page of a Google search for their pseudonym, which is ridiculous.

This is something that I've been thinking about for a long time. The current rules are sub-optimal, I think, since it's too easy for innocent people to be hurt. But at the same time I don't want to ban "personal information" entirely, due to the above two reasons. Maybe dox should be restricted to an "investigations" board which is only viewable to Jr members and above, or something like that.

Which is exactly what everyone is getting all butthurt over. They are posting his dox just for giggles, which equates to spamming/trolling. If there was ever reason to post Theymos or another Staff member's dox, it would not yield a ban.

These things you keep saying that are speculation aren't. They are answers to specific questions. Why you were banned is highlighted above. If you ask a question without presenting all information so that my answer is incomplete or incorrect, you can't blame that on me. I have no specific ties to any of this, so if you don't want any answers, you are welcome to talk to yourself in an empty thread. It is part of my job to try and address Meta threads though, but if you don't wish for me to answer your questions, thats one less thing for me to do.

Regardless, no matter how your story changes with each answer, I wish you luck in finding out what you are trying to find out.

[tf_banned_acc]

[...]

Why you were banned is highlighted above.

[...]

Regardless, no matter how your story changes with each answer, I wish you luck in finding out what you are trying to find out.

Unfortunately your post is riddled with inaccurate assertions, more speculation (eg: Yes I was manually banned; saying you don't believe me IS speculation!, the autoban is not the blacklisted URLs tool -- I know what that tool does!), et cetra -- despite me requesting you not to speculate. Your definition of speculation may be substantially different to the common and dictionary definition of speculation.

I'd elaborate but that will further derail this topic, so I'll only respond to points you've raised that are actually relevant to this thread:

(1) And this post is about why I don't think the ban is justified by the reasoning theymos gave, as my intent of posting the directions is not to troll or annoy but to discuss the topic of theymos's dox / auto bans, the apparent double standard and provide a correction to your incorrect directions of theymos's dox (seeing that what you posted were okay).

(2) When did my story every change? Perhaps you're misassuming what you think is happening with what I said?

(3) To re-iterate: Your comments implying that I was autobanned and not manually banned by theymos is manifestly incorrect. I was manually banned.

I'm confident that you have done far more harm and created more misinformation than what you've achieved by 'addressing meta threads'. While I still think you are posting in good faith, you have been extremely disruptive in this thread (and others) with incorrect statements, pure conjecture, and off-topic speculation and I'd like to ask you to stop posting in this thread.

I also hope that you have been responding in good faith. If not, you've just lost all the respect I've ever had for you.

[Vod]

From a scam buster's point of view - please don't reverse his ban.   

He does nothing but create fake accounts and cause forum drama.

[Blazr]

He does nothing but create fake accounts and cause forum drama.

What do you call this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=513899

[dogie]

He does nothing but create fake accounts

Well this is just going to make him create more accounts, no? If he can't use his TF account he'll spend the time farming others.

While I pretty much disagree with everything tF has done, does and will ever do, in this case I think he's right. He did something to very clearly demonstrate the hiporacy of the statement that "doxes are allowed, even of staff". He didn't intend for it to be harassing, as a troll or for his account to be banned automatically. He proved the point, Theymos is now engaged and aware there is an issue with doxes and is considering solutions.

....Isn't this a win win? Unban him already, or find something more fitting to ban him for

[worhiper_-_]

While I'm no supported of TF I think that him pushing the limits of this whole doxing thing is somewhat important. People might call him a troll and all but I'm not aware of many people that would risk trying to push the limits of rules.

We had salty saying that people wouldn't be banned or have their posts deleted if they posted theymos' dox along becaus of him having scammed them, as it would be treated just like any other dox, yet TF is banned after he posts info about said dox and the post is deleted. That was after salty saying what he said.

Why I consider this important? Well, there needs to be something done about doxing in here. Theymos posted in the other thread which I consider a step to the right direction but TF is right when he calls out the double standard of deleting staffer doxes almost instantly while innocent people can still be targeted with just a claim.

[GannickusX]

He does nothing but create fake accounts

Well this is just going to make him create more accounts, no? If he can't use his TF account he'll spend the time farming others.

While I pretty much disagree with everything tF has done, does and will ever do, in this case I think he's right. He did something to very clearly demonstrate the hiporacy of the statement that "doxes are allowed, even of staff". He didn't intend for it to be harassing, as a troll or for his account to be banned automatically. He proved the point, Theymos is now engaged and aware there is an issue with doxes and is considering solutions.

....Isn't this a win win? Unban him already, or find something more fitting to ban him for

Well isnt that ironic then? The biggest scammer in bitcointalk with -9999 is never banned, after all his scams, trollings and everything else and when he posts a dox of theymos he gets insta banned, i dont agree with tf in anything but he does have a point, why are admins beyond everyone else, i thought you had freedom in this forum, you can sell accounts without no problem too.

[favdesu]

He does nothing but create fake accounts

Well this is just going to make him create more accounts, no? If he can't use his TF account he'll spend the time farming others.

While I pretty much disagree with everything tF has done, does and will ever do, in this case I think he's right. He did something to very clearly demonstrate the hiporacy of the statement that "doxes are allowed, even of staff". He didn't intend for it to be harassing, as a troll or for his account to be banned automatically. He proved the point, Theymos is now engaged and aware there is an issue with doxes and is considering solutions.

....Isn't this a win win? Unban him already, or find something more fitting to ban him for

Well isnt that ironic then? The biggest scammer in bitcointalk with -9999 is never banned, after all his scams, trollings and everything else and when he posts a dox of theymos he gets insta banned, i dont agree with tf in anything but he does have a point, why are admins beyond everyone else, i thought you had freedom in this forum, you can sell accounts without no problem too.

maybe... because... you know. it's theymos' forum and he can enforce rules as he likes? the only free forum would be a decentralized one

[unholycactus]

He does nothing but create fake accounts

Well this is just going to make him create more accounts, no? If he can't use his TF account he'll spend the time farming others.

While I pretty much disagree with everything tF has done, does and will ever do, in this case I think he's right. He did something to very clearly demonstrate the hiporacy of the statement that "doxes are allowed, even of staff". He didn't intend for it to be harassing, as a troll or for his account to be banned automatically. He proved the point, Theymos is now engaged and aware there is an issue with doxes and is considering solutions.

....Isn't this a win win? Unban him already, or find something more fitting to ban him for

Well isnt that ironic then? The biggest scammer in bitcointalk with -9999 is never banned, after all his scams, trollings and everything else and when he posts a dox of theymos he gets insta banned, i dont agree with tf in anything but he does have a point, why are admins beyond everyone else, i thought you had freedom in this forum, you can sell accounts without no problem too.

1. Scamming isn't enforced. It's a forum rule.
2. Selling accounts either.
3. Trolling isn't allowed.

Is there truly a reason to dox Theymos other than trolling? I don't think so.

[GannickusX]

He does nothing but create fake accounts

Well this is just going to make him create more accounts, no? If he can't use his TF account he'll spend the time farming others.

While I pretty much disagree with everything tF has done, does and will ever do, in this case I think he's right. He did something to very clearly demonstrate the hiporacy of the statement that "doxes are allowed, even of staff". He didn't intend for it to be harassing, as a troll or for his account to be banned automatically. He proved the point, Theymos is now engaged and aware there is an issue with doxes and is considering solutions.

....Isn't this a win win? Unban him already, or find something more fitting to ban him for

Well isnt that ironic then? The biggest scammer in bitcointalk with -9999 is never banned, after all his scams, trollings and everything else and when he posts a dox of theymos he gets insta banned, i dont agree with tf in anything but he does have a point, why are admins beyond everyone else, i thought you had freedom in this forum, you can sell accounts without no problem too.

1. Scamming isn't enforced. It's a forum rule.
2. Selling accounts either.
3. Trolling isn't allowed.

Is there truly a reason to dox Theymos other than trolling? I don't think so.

Even if there was a good reason to post theymos dox he  would still have gotten banned, have you heard of someone that got banned for posting the dox of someone until now? I have not, correct me if im wrong.

[Athertle]

Even if there was a good reason to post theymos dox he  would still have gotten banned, have you heard of someone that got banned for posting the dox of someone until now? I have not, correct me if im wrong.

That's wrong and the moderators/staff are not that corrupt (yet) . I'm kidding, of course; you guys are the best staff.

If there was a truly good and reasonable reason to post theymos' dox, he and the staff would almost definitely acknowledge it and keep it on.

[Blazed]

You guys seem to think that this is a community ran forum or something. This is Theymos's forum and he makes the rules. This is not some democratic place by any means. Obviously his dox are off limits.

[dogie]

Obviously his dox are off limits.

Its one thing for his dox to be off limits but another [for others] to claim that all doxes are alike when its off limits.

[Your Point Is Invalid]

He does nothing but create fake accounts

Well this is just going to make him create more accounts, no? If he can't use his TF account he'll spend the time farming others.

While I pretty much disagree with everything tF has done, does and will ever do, in this case I think he's right. He did something to very clearly demonstrate the hiporacy of the statement that "doxes are allowed, even of staff". He didn't intend for it to be harassing, as a troll or for his account to be banned automatically. He proved the point, Theymos is now engaged and aware there is an issue with doxes and is considering solutions.

....Isn't this a win win? Unban him already, or find something more fitting to ban him for

Well isnt that ironic then? The biggest scammer in bitcointalk with -9999 is never banned, after all his scams, trollings and everything else and when he posts a dox of theymos he gets insta banned, i dont agree with tf in anything but he does have a point, why are admins beyond everyone else, i thought you had freedom in this forum, you can sell accounts without no problem too.

maybe... because... you know. it's theymos' forum and he can enforce rules as he likes? the only free forum would be a decentralized one

wrong, he runs the forum in a professional manner, think he banned OP amid users pressuring for doxing to be outlawed

[GermanGiant]

Guys, we are doxing /u/btcthwy here, the most deserving Satoshi candidate so far. Why bother theymos with all these doxing n all ? Join us...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1185132.0

[unholycactus]

This is Theymos's forum and he makes the rules. This is not some democratic place by any means. Obviously his dox are off limits.

Everyone keeps saying that.  Except theymos himself.  He claims to be "maintaining" this forum.
As a custodian of bitcointalk, he leaves something to be desired.  Rampant cronyism; donations money slowly (@ $100,000/mo, if I'm not mistaken) being siphoned into his friend's pocket Slickage; forum itself degenerated into worthless drama/scam/spam fest.

~~Your Leader, Comrade Napoleon;
Father of All Animals, Terror of Mankind, Protector of the Sheep-fold.

Theymos said it himself about reddit, not sure about Bitcointalk.
Thank you for contributing to the spam fest/drama though!