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Author Topic: The future of the paper money  (Read 402156 times)
aesma
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August 20, 2016, 08:28:52 PM
 #1621

Paper money as it currently exists has no future. However if paper money is covered one hundred percent by Gold, Bitcoins, Silver or something else which can not created just out of air, then it could have a future. The mess started when elites decided to abolish Gold covered paper money.

I assume that in your variety of economics goods produced and services rendered don't count as something else which is not created just out of air? If so, you essentially deprive the total majority of real goods (save for gold, silver and something else which is not goods) of their value and usefulness to people...

Which obviously doesn't make much sense. And what's the inference then?

Goods and services are worth something obviously, the problem is on the other side of the trade : paper money isn't worth anything. Its only worth is that you trust a government for its value. And what do governments nowadays ? They print boatloads of money out of thin air, making every Dollar/Euro/JPY etc. worth a little less every second.

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August 20, 2016, 08:43:33 PM
 #1622

Paper money as it currently exists has no future. However if paper money is covered one hundred percent by Gold, Bitcoins, Silver or something else which can not created just out of air, then it could have a future. The mess started when elites decided to abolish Gold covered paper money.

I assume that in your variety of economics goods produced and services rendered don't count as something else which is not created just out of air? If so, you essentially deprive the total majority of real goods (save for gold, silver and something else which is not goods) of their value and usefulness to people...

Which obviously doesn't make much sense. And what's the inference then?

Goods and services are worth something obviously, the problem is on the other side of the trade : paper money isn't worth anything. Its only worth is that you trust a government for its value. And what do governments nowadays ? They print boatloads of money out of thin air, making every Dollar/Euro/JPY etc. worth a little less every second

If paper money weren't worth anything, you wouldn't be able to buy anything with it, a simple fact of life. So as long as you can buy something worthy with it, it is worth just that. This is another fact. This logic necessarily leads to a conclusion that paper money is backed up by all the goods which can be bought with it and all the services which can be offered for it. That's the inference I referred to in my previous post. If you are going to argue that point (or anyone else), think first about how the same paper money would be backed up by gold (or silver, or anything else, for that matter)...

And then try to find a fundamental difference, if there is any

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August 20, 2016, 09:08:15 PM
 #1623

Paper money is cheaper banknotes that people can carry with them. But if the trade goes in the world in a different way and pick up the popularity of non-cash payment, the paper money will come to an end.
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August 20, 2016, 10:28:42 PM
 #1624

If you are going to argue that point (or anyone else), think first about how the same paper money would be backed up by gold (or silver, or anything else, for that matter)...

And then try to find a fundamental difference, if there is any

When money was backed by gold you could go to the bank and ask for the gold in exchange for your bills.

I guess it's not different in the sense that you had to trust the government even then.

I'm going to ask you the question in reverse. If I give you two choices : holding a fortune of 1 million dollars in paper money in your house, or 1 million dollars in gold in your house, what do you choose ? You can't invest or anything like that, just hold it.

The value of gold will change, but it will always be worth something. If the US government collapses, your paper bills are suddenly worth a few hours of heating your house by burning them.

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August 21, 2016, 09:03:56 AM
 #1625

I'm going to ask you the question in reverse. If I give you two choices : holding a fortune of 1 million dollars in paper money in your house, or 1 million dollars in gold in your house, what do you choose ? You can't invest or anything like that, just hold it.

Your dilemma is meaningless (like choosing an integer number between 2 and 3). Money is only a handy intermediary in the exchange of goods and services (one should never forget that). It doesn't have value of its own (digital money as the most extreme example), apart from the transactional utility only. So if I had to keep 1M dollars and couldn't spend it, that would be basically equal to having no money at all. The situation with gold is essentially the same, though (unless you are a gold bug or just like the shine of the metal, indeed). But if I could spend both the gold (sell it) and the money, I would indeed go for 1M dollars...

Since with money I can buy anything (including gold) while I would have to first sell gold to get the same 1M dollars as money

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August 21, 2016, 09:25:25 AM
 #1626

The value of gold will change, but it will always be worth something. If the US government collapses, your paper bills are suddenly worth a few hours of heating your house by burning them.

It just means that what had once been money ceased to be it. Money is what money does. But this issue is fundamentally the same with the paper money backed up by gold as well. It takes just one day to make it no longer convertible to gold (see Nixon Shock as a real-life example)...

And you don't even need the US government collapse for that to happen

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August 21, 2016, 10:22:31 AM
 #1627

I like paper money cause it's very comfotable to use, and i think that many people likes paper money, i am not sure that we will see digital money everywhere soon.

Paper money would stood still until  the end of time i guess since its been used for how many centuries and  its not easy to be replaced by another like  some people claim that bitcoin could replace fiat then its impossible, bitcoin have the potential to fully developed in the future but  it wouldnt replace paper currency.

Paper money is pretty new. And in some places it's not even widely accepted, people don't trust it, with reason (ever heard of Zimbabwe ?). Or people don't have use for it, they just own a few acres or farm animals and trade what they got for what they need.

This is the old school trading you are talking about. They created also this papers so that people can make it faster and will be lighter. Just think about this. Why make it a paper. Why not a metal or a stone? It is for the issue of convenience, they want it to be brought anywhere they go without getting tired. Remember there are no cars at that time.

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August 21, 2016, 10:46:11 AM
 #1628

I cant see any future for paper money . Paper money era will be dead .Long live Bitcoin

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August 21, 2016, 12:02:12 PM
 #1629

I cant see any future for paper money . Paper money era will be dead .Long live Bitcoin
Not that fast bro, you have too much confidence on bitcoin that you will beat what the government are implementing, paper money will not be lost in the circulation and that is for sure because we do have our brothers and sisters who does not know how to operate online transactions using bitcoin.



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August 21, 2016, 12:17:58 PM
 #1630

I cant see any future for paper money . Paper money era will be dead .Long live Bitcoin
Not that fast bro, you have too much confidence on bitcoin that you will beat what the government are implementing, paper money will not be lost in the circulation and that is for sure because we do have our brothers and sisters who does not know how to operate online transactions using bitcoin.

More people will get aware about bitcoin in future and they may even start using it but that doesn't mean they will stop using paper money, paper money will always survive.
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August 21, 2016, 12:25:46 PM
 #1631

I cant see any future for paper money . Paper money era will be dead .Long live Bitcoin
Not that fast bro, you have too much confidence on bitcoin that you will beat what the government are implementing, paper money will not be lost in the circulation and that is for sure because we do have our brothers and sisters who does not know how to operate online transactions using bitcoin.

I believe on what he have said that paper money is going to be dead and you are right with it. It is going to take long time before it is going to happen.
But I'm pretty that is going to happen as we are now on the technology era everything can be done per transaction without involvement of any fiat money at all.



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August 21, 2016, 12:27:37 PM
 #1632

I'm going to ask you the question in reverse. If I give you two choices : holding a fortune of 1 million dollars in paper money in your house, or 1 million dollars in gold in your house, what do you choose ? You can't invest or anything like that, just hold it.

Your dilemma is meaningless (like choosing an integer number between 2 and 3). Money is only a handy intermediary in the exchange of goods and services (one should never forget that). It doesn't have value of its own (digital money as the most extreme example), apart from the transactional utility only. So if I had to keep 1M dollars and couldn't spend it, that would be basically equal to having no money at all. The situation with gold is essentially the same, though (unless you are a gold bug or just like the shine of the metal, indeed). But if I could spend both the gold (sell it) and the money, I would indeed go for 1M dollars...

Since with money I can buy anything (including gold) while I would have to first sell gold to get the same 1M dollars as money

I didn't mean that you can never spend it, but let's say you need to hold it for 10 years. Do you think the dollar will be worth the same thing in 10 years ? With inflation at 2%, you would lose 18% of your holdings in dollars.

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23dzmaz
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August 21, 2016, 12:50:29 PM
 #1633

I'm sure we will use digital money in the future and i think paper money will keep exist and used by people but not many and digital money like bitcoin, paypal and credit card will used.
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August 21, 2016, 01:11:44 PM
 #1634

Just stumbled over the article 'The Bank of Ireland Will Penalize Large Cash Deposits' on NewsBTC.
Moneytary repression has also reached Ireland now. It is spreading like a plague  Roll Eyes

deisik
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August 21, 2016, 01:35:46 PM
 #1635

I'm going to ask you the question in reverse. If I give you two choices : holding a fortune of 1 million dollars in paper money in your house, or 1 million dollars in gold in your house, what do you choose ? You can't invest or anything like that, just hold it.

Your dilemma is meaningless (like choosing an integer number between 2 and 3). Money is only a handy intermediary in the exchange of goods and services (one should never forget that). It doesn't have value of its own (digital money as the most extreme example), apart from the transactional utility only. So if I had to keep 1M dollars and couldn't spend it, that would be basically equal to having no money at all. The situation with gold is essentially the same, though (unless you are a gold bug or just like the shine of the metal, indeed). But if I could spend both the gold (sell it) and the money, I would indeed go for 1M dollars...

Since with money I can buy anything (including gold) while I would have to first sell gold to get the same 1M dollars as money

I didn't mean that you can never spend it, but let's say you need to hold it for 10 years. Do you think the dollar will be worth the same thing in 10 years ? With inflation at 2%, you would lose 18% of your holdings in dollars.

This doesn't add to your question any more meaning, since money is made to be spent, not to be saved, as I have already said. In fact, I don't know how much gold will cost in dollar terms in 10 years (and no one knows), so it may happen that it will cost even less than it does now. But it is ultimately irrelevant since your reasoning still doesn't allow to distinguish in any meaningful ("fundamental") way the paper money backed up by the merchants, which are ready to accept it as a means of payment, from the paper money allegedly backed up by gold, while in fact backed up by nothing but a promise of the state (since that was the original claim)...

Which the state can abandon just like that, without much ado and beating about the bush (as I have also shown)

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August 21, 2016, 04:22:36 PM
 #1636

I'm sure we will use digital money in the future and i think paper money will keep exist and used by people but not many and digital money like bitcoin, paypal and credit card will used.
Yea you are that paper money will remain as not all will indulge in digital currency.digital currency has started to his impact and will be used widely after few years.

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August 21, 2016, 04:26:46 PM
 #1637

I'm sure we will use digital money in the future and i think paper money will keep exist and used by people but not many and digital money like bitcoin, paypal and credit card will used.
Yea you are that paper money will remain as not all will indulge in digital currency.digital currency has started to his impact and will be used widely after few years.

World will go digital in future but there will be certain proportion of people who will prefer to use paper money, as they might not feel to complicate their spending by getting into bitcoins.
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August 21, 2016, 04:37:29 PM
 #1638

I'm sure we will use digital money in the future and i think paper money will keep exist and used by people but not many and digital money like bitcoin, paypal and credit card will used.
Yea you are that paper money will remain as not all will indulge in digital currency.digital currency has started to his impact and will be used widely after few years.

World will go digital in future but there will be certain proportion of people who will prefer to use paper money, as they might not feel to complicate their spending by getting into bitcoins.
And in the very popular paper money. This is something the old and respectable looks. Electrical Wheels And more money to the house over the Internet from the computer something to buy.
coszy
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August 21, 2016, 05:44:59 PM
 #1639

I'm sure we will use digital money in the future and i think paper money will keep exist and used by people but not many and digital money like bitcoin, paypal and credit card will used.
Yea you are that paper money will remain as not all will indulge in digital currency.digital currency has started to his impact and will be used widely after few years.

World will go digital in future but there will be certain proportion of people who will prefer to use paper money, as they might not feel to complicate their spending by getting into bitcoins.
And in the very popular paper money. This is something the old and respectable looks. Electrical Wheels And more money to the house over the Internet from the computer something to buy.
Paper money, too, have their value despite the fact that they are paper. For each piece of paper has a gold reserve of the country waltzes, whose it is.
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August 21, 2016, 10:36:37 PM
 #1640

I'm going to ask you the question in reverse. If I give you two choices : holding a fortune of 1 million dollars in paper money in your house, or 1 million dollars in gold in your house, what do you choose ? You can't invest or anything like that, just hold it.

Your dilemma is meaningless (like choosing an integer number between 2 and 3). Money is only a handy intermediary in the exchange of goods and services (one should never forget that). It doesn't have value of its own (digital money as the most extreme example), apart from the transactional utility only. So if I had to keep 1M dollars and couldn't spend it, that would be basically equal to having no money at all. The situation with gold is essentially the same, though (unless you are a gold bug or just like the shine of the metal, indeed). But if I could spend both the gold (sell it) and the money, I would indeed go for 1M dollars...

Since with money I can buy anything (including gold) while I would have to first sell gold to get the same 1M dollars as money

I didn't mean that you can never spend it, but let's say you need to hold it for 10 years. Do you think the dollar will be worth the same thing in 10 years ? With inflation at 2%, you would lose 18% of your holdings in dollars.

This doesn't add to your question any more meaning, since money is made to be spent, not to be saved, as I have already said. In fact, I don't know how much gold will cost in dollar terms in 10 years (and no one knows), so it may happen that it will cost even less than it does now. But it is ultimately irrelevant since your reasoning still doesn't allow to distinguish in any meaningful ("fundamental") way the paper money backed up by the merchants, which are ready to accept it as a means of payment, from the paper money allegedly backed up by gold, while in fact backed up by nothing but a promise of the state (since that was the original claim)...

Which the state can abandon just like that, without much ado and beating about the bush (as I have also shown)
All paper money is the currency of all nations. Each of them is interested in the high course of their money. And how do you imagine that they will give it all for the sake of bitcoin? Never.
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