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Author Topic: Scam alert : Do NOT INVEST in Genesis Mining  (Read 227630 times)
Glucose
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January 18, 2017, 07:34:34 PM
 #261


Furthermore, you dont know who was and is contributing here in this thread. So much effort, that many posts, from one and the same member, lets me assume, that this could be some jealous competitors themselves, trying hardly to create a bad company reputation on Genesis-Mining.

Time will tell, who is right or wrong. Until then, my mines keep mining on.

My view. Many having had a short term horizon, will argue in the long term then.

Yeah, you're right I'm a jealous competitor  Grin Grin Let me laugh.

The main problem is not their lack of transparency but the fact they are not profitable.

If you want to prove me wrong you can buy a small contract and show me your profit. Reality is you will get back approximatively 30% of what you paid. It's not about investing when bitcoin is low or high or whatever. Genesis mining contracts are NOT profitable, NEVER. You are paying them, they won't pay you back half of what you paid because the fees they are taking are huge.

As I said In my first post, I firstly was a GM customer. When I asked for a refund, they refused. I said to their support team I would open a scam accusation thread and spread awareness about them.

Now, almost one and a half year later, I don't care to lose 10 minutes every week managing this thread. I'll keep doing it if it can save some people their money. I'll do my best to ruin this company but I don't need to be a jealous competitor to do so, trust me. If you really want you can buy a contract and then you will join me in the fight  Grin Grin

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January 18, 2017, 10:58:05 PM
 #262

To all of you who have been scammed, to all of you who think they shouldn't be allowed to keep selling contracts : Put a neutral or negative trust on their profile here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=247140. We have to spread awareness about this.


Alright. But as i looked up their profile, no one has put a neutral, nor a negative trust on them. How you explain that? And, if them would be scammers, why isnt there a whole lot  more of fraud accusations in this thread? By serving over 300.000 clients, there should be a "little" more voices of complain out there. As everyone can see, that many people have looked up this scam accusation thread, why that less ones have replied, or shared their bad business experiences?

If they would be scammers, then they should be rated as outstanding skilled craftmen. Lets be honest. Would Marco Streng be presented in the Forbes Magazine, if he would lead an empire built out of fraud?

Why im writing this in favour of GM? I want to invest in a serious mining company. And by questioning your accusitions, i try to find out if them are legit, or just being paid fraud accusitions, financed by GM´s competitors.

What are trusted miners then? Are there any objective reviews on any company? I mean, if anyone presents stats, are them reliable, though they can be manipulated, anyway?

What do you think of getting started with mining Bitcoins right now, behind the reward halving, and with the exchange rate at way another level than back in 2014 and 2015?

Isnt it as simple as that. If theres a strong price, mining should be profitabel in anyway. Its the same with gold mining and oil delivery, and so it is with the biggest digital currency. Or, am i fully misunderstanding the general concept of mining crypto currencies?

Yes, you are.

So how about some actual numbers to back up your shilling? You know, costs of contracts, fees, etc. Not some bullshit like 300 thousand clients - meaningless and likely false.

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dhampir-D
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January 18, 2017, 11:31:11 PM
 #263


Is their any cloud mining that isn't a scam?

I guess Hashnest is still the better one and they are really mining. Give it a try if you want. But you won't become rich with cloud mining anyway. So instead you could buy bitcoin and hold them.
The chances of getting ROI in this service are also very low, but this is probably the best option among the other cloud mining services.
The problem is that at one time or another the difficulty of mining will increase, in addition, the maintenance fee is high, making the situation of the user even more difficult.

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January 22, 2017, 12:28:42 PM
 #264

Yes, you are.

So how about some actual numbers to back up your shilling? You know, costs of contracts, fees, etc. Not some bullshit like 300 thousand clients - meaningless and likely false.

[/quote]

[/quote]

Yeah, you're right I'm a jealous competitor  Grin Grin Let me laugh.

The main problem is not their lack of transparency but the fact they are not profitable.

If you want to prove me wrong you can buy a small contract and show me your profit. Reality is you will get back approximatively 30% of what you paid. It's not about investing when bitcoin is low or high or whatever. Genesis mining contracts are NOT profitable, NEVER. You are paying them, they won't pay you back half of what you paid because the fees they are taking are huge.

As I said In my first post, I firstly was a GM customer. When I asked for a refund, they refused. I said to their support team I would open a scam accusation thread and spread awareness about them.

Now, almost one and a half year later, I don't care to lose 10 minutes every week managing this thread. I'll keep doing it if it can save some people their money. I'll do my best to ruin this company but I don't need to be a jealous competitor to do so, trust me. If you really want you can buy a contract and then you will join me in the fight  Grin Grin
[/quote]

Is their any cloud mining that isn't a scam?

I guess Hashnest is still the better one and they are really mining. Give it a try if you want. But you won't become rich with cloud mining anyway. So instead you could buy bitcoin and hold them.
The chances of getting ROI in this service are also very low, but this is probably the best option among the other cloud mining services.
The problem is that at one time or another the difficulty of mining will increase, in addition, the maintenance fee is high, making the situation of the user even more difficult.



Ok, ok.. I hope your quotes have been implemented the right way.

Your, Glucose´s, Suchmoon´s and dhampir-D´s advise, and further research, have convinced me of NOT INVESTING any buck IN GENESIS-MINING.COM.. Though im really a newbie, also common sense has told, that they certainly dont care about their reputation, but do care a lot about throwing out their fu cked up "live-lasting" - contracts, that are only profitabel for themselves, as they clame on their website.: "Why mining with us is profitabel?" They´ve forgot about to add the:"...is profitabel for us?", in that sentence.

So, im really thankful towards yours, that this warning thread exists, and that youre keeping it alive! It eally isnt easy, to chose a proper cloud-mining company, finding your way, through them well positioned paid google-listings, to some honest and objective reviews.. Lots of thanks!

If you think, it´ll be better for this forum and this thread, to delete my posts pro GM, id do so? Or, its better for the context, to keep them, so everyone can see my 180 degrees mind change? Whatever.

Until yet, i havent signed any cloud-mining contract with any company at all. Thats why i was pro GM at first glance, just out of ignorance, believing a "western" company couldnt be scamm, and the asian ones, would be scamm straight through. But now i guess, its completely vice versa;) But now ive got some general questions about them. Can i put them in here, or just into another thread? Some like, is Hashnest a part of, or integerated into Antpool? Sorry, to ask them right here.

I want to invest $ 5.000 for my mother, and im busy reading for the last 4 or 5 days. Is cloud-mining bitcoins, with automatically repurchase (like e.g. hashnest offers it), supposing a steady or rising bitcoin exchange-rate, the better choice for a time horizon of 3 - 10 years, instead of just buying and holding bitcoins?
The answer almost everyone gives is of course, just hold bitcoins. Its lets risky, and so on. But, for me it doesnt matter, if its lets risky. For me its just important to know, is bitcoin mining with a serious company, with the factors i mentioned above, more profitabel on a long timeframe, than holding bitcoins? Or, are $ 5.000 not worth mining at all?

If your not going to answer this whole lot of issues. No problem. And, once more, sorry for that then;) Im going to ask it in another thread.






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January 22, 2017, 09:37:23 PM
 #265

Your, Glucose´s, Suchmoon´s and dhampir-D´s advise, and further research, have convinced me of NOT INVESTING any buck IN GENESIS-MINING.COM.. Though im really a newbie, also common sense has told, that they certainly dont care about their reputation, but do care a lot about throwing out their fu cked up "live-lasting" - contracts, that are only profitabel for themselves, as they clame on their website.: "Why mining with us is profitabel?" They´ve forgot about to add the:"...is profitabel for us?", in that sentence.

So, im really thankful towards yours, that this warning thread exists, and that youre keeping it alive! It eally isnt easy, to chose a proper cloud-mining company, finding your way, through them well positioned paid google-listings, to some honest and objective reviews.. Lots of thanks!

If you think, it´ll be better for this forum and this thread, to delete my posts pro GM, id do so? Or, its better for the context, to keep them, so everyone can see my 180 degrees mind change? Whatever.

Until yet, i havent signed any cloud-mining contract with any company at all. Thats why i was pro GM at first glance, just out of ignorance, believing a "western" company couldnt be scamm, and the asian ones, would be scamm straight through. But now i guess, its completely vice versa;) But now ive got some general questions about them. Can i put them in here, or just into another thread? Some like, is Hashnest a part of, or integerated into Antpool? Sorry, to ask them right here.

I want to invest $ 5.000 for my mother, and im busy reading for the last 4 or 5 days. Is cloud-mining bitcoins, with automatically repurchase (like e.g. hashnest offers it), supposing a steady or rising bitcoin exchange-rate, the better choice for a time horizon of 3 - 10 years, instead of just buying and holding bitcoins?
The answer almost everyone gives is of course, just hold bitcoins. Its lets risky, and so on. But, for me it doesnt matter, if its lets risky. For me its just important to know, is bitcoin mining with a serious company, with the factors i mentioned above, more profitabel on a long timeframe, than holding bitcoins? Or, are $ 5.000 not worth mining at all?

If your not going to answer this whole lot of issues. No problem. And, once more, sorry for that then;) Im going to ask it in another thread.

Hi Letsbehonest. Glad to see you made further research and changed your mind. You don't need to delete your posts :-)

I'm not a bitcoin mining specialist but I think Antpool is just the name of the mining pool used by Hashnest. So the company name is Hashnest and the mining pool name is Antpool (don't ask me why, I don't know!). It means you can verify how many blocks they are mining etc.

People give you the answer "buy and hold" because the only risk you are taking is to see the bitcoin price going down or crashing, and a lot of people believe bitcoin will be priced much more in a few years than it is today). If you invest in Hashnest, you will probably inscrease the number of bitcoins you have (5 BTC ==> 5.05 BTC ==> 5.1 BTC, etc...) but it takes a lot of time and you are also taking the risk of seeing your bitcoins disappear (1) if the network difficulty goes too high and if there is no more profitability your hashnest contract will be suspended, (2)if Hahsnest goes bankrupt.

What is quite sure from my point of view : I will NEVER invest 100% of what I have in bitcoin mining. I guess the wiser choice is to invest part of it (what you can lose), and buy and hold the rest of it (what you don't want to lose)

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January 23, 2017, 09:38:17 AM
 #266

I just logged on after a while and noticed a PM asking me to remove an unrelated positive trust I left them. But I'm not going to do so, because they aren't scamming to the best of my knowledge.

Even without cloud mining, a lot of last-gen mining rigs that are still being sold would not break even. Does that mean that their sellers are scamming too?

Saying that they are scamming/committing fraud would imply that they are misrepresenting what they are providing the user. But to the best of my knowledge, they are giving users exactly what they sign on for.

Is investing with them a bad idea? Probably, but then so would be almost any other form of mining.
Mining, cloud or otherwise, has been a bad idea for all but the tiniest minority of people for quite a while.
Telling people to not mine is one thing, but telling them that they are being scammed by choosing something that has had a negative ROI for a long long time, is just shifting the blame away from the users who jump on the hype train.

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January 23, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
 #267

I just logged on after a while and noticed a PM asking me to remove an unrelated positive trust I left them. But I'm not going to do so, because they aren't scamming to the best of my knowledge.

If they are not scamming, can you say what hardware they are using and what pool they mine for? They do not declare anything on their site. On the contrary, Hashflare and Hashnest explicitly say that.
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January 23, 2017, 10:16:15 AM
 #268

I just logged on after a while and noticed a PM asking me to remove an unrelated positive trust I left them. But I'm not going to do so, because they aren't scamming to the best of my knowledge.

Even without cloud mining, a lot of last-gen mining rigs that are still being sold would not break even. Does that mean that their sellers are scamming too?

Saying that they are scamming/committing fraud would imply that they are misrepresenting what they are providing the user. But to the best of my knowledge, they are giving users exactly what they sign on for.

Is investing with them a bad idea? Probably, but then so would be almost any other form of mining.
Mining, cloud or otherwise, has been a bad idea for all but the tiniest minority of people for quite a while.
Telling people to not mine is one thing, but telling them that they are being scammed by choosing something that has had a negative ROI for a long long time, is just shifting the blame away from the users who jump on the hype train.

This +1.

If they are not scamming, can you say what pool they mine for?

Or to put it another way, just because they don't disclose what pool(s) they use, altho hardly transparent, does that on its own prove that they are scammers, as in not mining at all and running a completely fictional set up?

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January 23, 2017, 11:13:54 AM
 #269

Or to put it another way, just because they don't disclose what pool(s) they use, altho hardly transparent, does that on its own prove that they are scammers, as in not mining at all and running a completely fictional set up?

Well, if they know that the ROI from their mining contracts is negative, does it really matter if they are mining or not? If investors always lose money.
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January 23, 2017, 11:31:42 AM
 #270

Or to put it another way, just because they don't disclose what pool(s) they use, altho hardly transparent, does that on its own prove that they are scammers, as in not mining at all and running a completely fictional set up?

Well, if they know that the ROI from their mining contracts is negative, does it really matter if they are mining or not? If investors always lose money.

Yes, I think it does.
There's a big difference between customers investing in a poorly performing but real contract and being deliberately scammed by a fake mining set up.
I have no love for Genesis and have spent a lot of time telling people "don't do it" regarding cloudmining, but it would be quite a surprise if they turned out to be a complete fake.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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January 23, 2017, 01:38:56 PM
 #271

I have no love for Genesis and have spent a lot of time telling people "don't do it" regarding cloudmining, but it would be quite a surprise if they turned out to be a complete fake.

Do you think that cloud mining at all is not worth it? I think Hashnest mining may be profitable, because you can mine, and you can sell your mining power at some point. It's like a stock market - getting dividends and trading your shares. But in mining your dividends may be higher than 100% annual.
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January 23, 2017, 01:56:05 PM
 #272

Do you think that cloud mining at all is not worth it? I think Hashnest mining may be profitable, because you can mine, and you can sell your mining power at some point. It's like a stock market - getting dividends and trading your shares. But in mining your dividends may be higher than 100% annual.
If you look here https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/#/contracts you will notice that most of the contracts never pay back. The best contract have almost three year payback time at current conditions. It will probably never pay back as well.
Better to buy some bitcoins or other tokens.
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January 23, 2017, 02:03:40 PM
 #273

Do you think that cloud mining at all is not worth it? I think Hashnest mining may be profitable, because you can mine, and you can sell your mining power at some point. It's like a stock market - getting dividends and trading your shares. But in mining your dividends may be higher than 100% annual.
If you look here https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/#/contracts you will notice that most of the contracts never pay back. The best contract have almost three year payback time at current conditions. It will probably never pay back as well.
Better to buy some bitcoins or other tokens.

Yes, but I believe bitcoin mining at Hashnest will pay back, however. And, of course, better buy litecoins and other forks than mine them in cloud (or mine them at home).
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January 23, 2017, 02:43:41 PM
 #274

Do you think that cloud mining at all is not worth it? I think Hashnest mining may be profitable, because you can mine, and you can sell your mining power at some point. It's like a stock market - getting dividends and trading your shares. But in mining your dividends may be higher than 100% annual.
If you look here https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/#/contracts you will notice that most of the contracts never pay back. The best contract have almost three year payback time at current conditions. It will probably never pay back as well.
Better to buy some bitcoins or other tokens.

Yes, but I believe bitcoin mining at Hashnest will pay back, however. And, of course, better buy litecoins and other forks than mine them in cloud (or mine them at home).
The mining difficulty made a huge leap on the last day, so I would avoid any cloud mining service. Hashnest has an interesting mining system, since the user can buy hashpower and sell at any time in the market, not at the same price, of course.

I was considering this investment possibility, but then I realized that the maintenance fee is relatively high, and this will cause an even greater impact on the gains after the recent increase in the difficulty of mining.

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January 23, 2017, 04:26:51 PM
 #275

The mining difficulty made a huge leap on the last day, so I would avoid any cloud mining service.

Yes, and I've sold all my S7 hashpower today at Hashnest. That's the point of Hashnest and that's how you can make profit: buy hashpower -> let it work and earn 0.3-0.5% daily for you -> sell hashpower.
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January 29, 2017, 12:23:14 PM
 #276

The mining difficulty made a huge leap on the last day, so I would avoid any cloud mining service.

Yes, and I've sold all my S7 hashpower today at Hashnest. That's the point of Hashnest and that's how you can make profit: buy hashpower -> let it work and earn 0.3-0.5% daily for you -> sell hashpower.

Hashnest is the only (or almost only) cloudmining company you can make profit with (by selling your hashpower). But it's not so easy, and you won't get rich using it so I don't say it's a safe bet investing here. I'm more a "buy and hold your bitcoins" guy.


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January 29, 2017, 08:33:06 PM
 #277

Can you please quote the contract investors are signing?

What is the name of the company who operates Genesis Mining?

Where are the terms and conditions stated?

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January 30, 2017, 08:51:39 PM
 #278

For a company that produce their own electricity - according to their website. Wy is there even a maintenance fee needed?

Can you please quote the contract investors are signing?

What is the name of the company who operates Genesis Mining?

Where are the terms and conditions stated?

They operate themselves I think, check their website.
The contract will be found under pricing→bitcoin and hen scroll down.

The mining difficulty made a huge leap on the last day, so I would avoid any cloud mining service.

Yes, and I've sold all my S7 hashpower today at Hashnest. That's the point of Hashnest and that's how you can make profit: buy hashpower -> let it work and earn 0.3-0.5% daily for you -> sell hashpower.

Hashnest is the only (or almost only) cloudmining company you can make profit with (by selling your hashpower). But it's not so easy, and you won't get rich using it so I don't say it's a safe bet investing here. I'm more a "buy and hold your bitcoins" guy.




It's much more profitable to use hashnest for that purpose yes, as long as you don't have enough to beclassed as manipulating the market.
Normally, there is a 24 hour fluctuation in the price that you can benefit from (though sinceI last stated this they put the price on buying to 0.2% - may have been my fault for saying it here).
Holding coins is not as profitible compared with other methods...

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January 31, 2017, 01:07:14 AM
 #279

1) A legally valid contract does not exist and everyone can demand the money sent back.

2) Genesis Mining is a very obvious scam, it took 5 minutes for me. They have the same scam style like the Betcoin.ag scam! and state 3 different jurisdictions that would be applicable, while in reality likely none of them is:

a) Genesis Mining Ltd., Chinachem Century Tower, 31/F, 178 Gloucester Road, Wanchai, Hong Kong

b) Genesis Mining LTD, 3rd Floor, Par La Ville Place, 14 Par-la-Ville Road, Hamilton HM 08, Bermuda

c) 9. Governing Law, Language and Miscellaneous

"This Agreement is governed by German law. To the extent permitted by applicable law the parties agree that the competent courts of Munich shall have non-exclusive jurisdiction to hear and determine any suit, action or proceeding, and to settle any disputes, which may arise out of or in connection with this Agreement"
    

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January 31, 2017, 02:37:49 AM
 #280

What's up guys?

Just a follow up from my previous post, I took the privilege of taking 10 friends including me to sign up for Genesis at the lowest price package.

We really wanted to see how the calculation works but oh boy we were really disappointed by it. We took this calculator as a reference: https://alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

We sign up at random times because at out first account we notice Genesis was paying but as soon as after a period of time the value of BTC is decreasing every day and value was so far off from the bitcoin calculator. The first few days signed up, the values seem to be ok, not so far off from the value calculated by the calculator. We were happy at the time.

Genesis claims that the decreasing value is due to the difficulties but it doesn't seem they are honest, how is it possible that the difficulty can be so far off from the calculator above? It seems ridiculous and not logical at all.

Another concern logical to point out is that, while we signed up the 7th - 10th account, the value paid was actually much higher than the 1st-6th account (still at the same price package) we signed up earlier! LOL

This simply tells us that Genesis is doing this on purpose to give you a peace of mind at the first-second week while doing you the payouts. Soon after you will notice that the value paid is decreasing everyday - this is where subscribers would start yelling. So I guess that's done since we have 10 accounts to prove how dishonest Genesis is.

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