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Author Topic: [AEON] Aeon Speculation  (Read 182674 times)
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TPTB_need_war
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January 14, 2016, 11:54:13 AM
 #521

Sorry for the threadjack  Embarrassed

We can lead a horse to water but we can't make him drink.

Sometimes it is too difficult to change and try radical new things. The cost of failure may be too great. The cost of discarding existing inertia may be too heavy. The resources needed may not be aligned and available.

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TPTB_need_war
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January 14, 2016, 12:02:00 PM
Last edit: January 14, 2016, 12:17:07 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #522

Here a link for a new ether faucet that pays out weekly and you can claim every 10 minutes

http://www.etherfaucet.org/?r=50

So $0.30 a week if doing this 8 hours a day. That isn't even better than slavery in the poorest countries in the world.

Free bitcoin used to give out 10btc per hour claim  Tongue

Oic so you are marketing it to investors who don't have 30 cents.

Seems the only who will actually use this faucet will those who can figure out how to game it.



CoinCube add:

4) A large base of users already using it as a currency and enjoying freedoms it provides. And doing it within my block chain design (or Iota's if you accept the flaws I alleged) where the control over the mining is in the hands of the users, not professional miners.

Which was sort of the point of my prior post. So seems we are in agreement. I am just not sure if I am going to proceed. Not sure if we have enough awareness in the community as to what needs to be done and whether people are excited about it. I am testing the waters now in the Aeon thread to see what people think about actually trying for mass adoption. I am being obnoxious and loud to try to see if people will realize we are not doing anything about mass adoption in the altcoin arena (other than perhaps Dogecoin).

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January 14, 2016, 12:34:13 PM
Last edit: January 14, 2016, 12:50:52 PM by smooth
 #523

Sorry for the threadjack  Embarrassed

It's not my thread so it's not up to me but I wouldn't say that talking about potential markets is really a thread jack.
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January 14, 2016, 01:40:11 PM
 #524

Sorry for the threadjack  Embarrassed

It's not my thread so it's not up to me but I wouldn't say that talking about potential markets is really a thread jack.


I enjoy the TPTB posts too as they often contain real wisdom even if he does get long winded and off topic at times. Marketing to emerging economies is something we should all think about more.
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January 14, 2016, 03:19:08 PM
 #525

https://twitter.com/aeoncurrency/status/687654160045617153

Its poll time. Cast your vote!

When should we ask @Poloniex to list #aeon alongside its other #CryptoNote coins like #monero and #boolberry?

1. Now
2. After LMDB
3. After GUI
TPTB_need_war
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January 14, 2016, 08:59:17 PM
 #526

One last point and I will stay out of the thread unless I have something more concrete that can impact Aeon.

I am thinking that even we could reach mutual understanding on marketing and development thereof, the problem is the distribution model I have in mind won't fit with Aeon's distribution and preexisting investment, thus it is impossible for me to work with this community on the solution.

As much as I would like to get some help and race forward with more synergies (this can also be more social and fun if plans/personalities are aligned), I think it is really difficult to realign the priorities and thought processes of others. Perhaps if I had more energy for discussion and salesmanship.

Thanks for entertaining my interjection of points about marketing to other markets.

Realistically I only have two choices it seems. Push on alone (as quietly as possible) and risk failure due to the resources required to implement such a plan and the plan itself being very risky and unsure, coupled with the facts of my personal circumstances. Or quit crypto.

Indeed everyone is correct to doubt that progress can be made in mass markets because it is difficult to create market where the potential users don't have a primary need (or at least don't realize how they could have given certain changing  ecosystem landscape of available apps and such). Which comes first, the egg or the chicken. Answer: both.

Difficult to be methodical in the face of imminent bankruptcy (some months from now), potentially terminal/pathological chronic illness, entering the decline of age 50s, global crisis on the verge of worsening, totalitarianism spreading, etc..  The stress is far too much even for a healthy younger man.

But damn it, I don't see other good options. I guess I could leave the Philippines and return to USA try to get socialized medical care and then that might restore me to the level of function where I could hold a daily software engineer job again. Psychologically I seem incapable of making that move. I don't even have the energy to devote to thinking out that option and its impacts.

I pretty much spend my days just coping and trying to get something productive done, even if that is just trying to work out algorithms and understandings of flaws in other designs, such as my recent breakthrough of conceptualization of the math issues for a DAG/Iota. Then it is disheartening when disingenuous Dash supporters will try to claim that the math insights and other enumerated flaws are irrelevant.

This is where as a man one wants to "JUST DO IT" and prove them wrong and the best way to prove people wrong is in the marketplace because it is difficult to argue with Mr. Market, as the results are self-evident. Losers don't gain the huge ROI and profit.

So without further long-winded diatribe, I conclude this message. Good luck to us.


For better or for worse, I have decided to continue developing by myself, since it seems I won't be able to find a suitable developer and community to support me while I struggle to try to make my envisioned solution a reality. There are many times where I don't think I can do it, because I seem to be battling some kind of problem with food digestion and concomitant autoimmunity, perhaps bile duct blockage but the symptoms from what I read point more towards cancer (e.g. very itching skin and no severe pain as one would expect for a gallstone). When I had the acute peptic ulcer in 2012, my abdomen had bloated up like a balloon (and horrific pain that can't be described) because the acid was leaking into my abdominal cavity and was burning my organs (according to my doctor). I'm tempted to go for a checkup here (there are MRI machines in Davao), but I don't even trust the doctors here in terms of diagnosis and certainly I would not trust them for any invasive procedure. Also I am trying to conserve funds and I have no medical insurance.

So the net effect is that I am always unsure about my energy level and mental state because this illness impacts everything including the brain. Also I am not even sure what I have, could even be a problem with my colon or even complicated because the peripheral neuropathy symptoms started as early as 2008 (as documented by my old emails complaining about swollen, numbing feet and then by 2010 full blown relapsing Chronic Fatigue Syndrome), which I suspect was brought on by a high # strain of HPV infection my ex-wife gave me in one last ill-fated meeting in 2006 in the USA (we broken up in 2002 due to her drug use). And then I suspect I was infected numerous times with strange pathogens because I was still quite sexually active from 2007 - 2012 when I succumbed to that sudden intensive care hospitalization.

So okay that is my daily struggle and explains to some degree why I talk too much. Because sometimes or often I feel talking is all I can do as well as I used to code. Anyone who codes knows (or should know if they've ever tired coding with a really bad throbbing headache and head flu) that coding requires a lot of concentration. Actually there are very few normal, non-chronic flus or illnesses will can allow a person to feel the legathy of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and the head impacts of autoimmunity type dysfunction. So any way, after years of battling each day, I sometimes feel I am worn down to a frazzle. And also I don't get enough coding accomplished to feel I have the sort of momentum that I used to where I would still be coding and solving challenges in my mind when resting and awake with solutions and charging forward. Instead I often forget everything and wallow in damn insomnia (which screws up normal recovery patterns) or other extremely frustrating deleterious effects.

Yet despite all of this, I can still code sometimes effectively. And perhaps I just need to believe in myself and believe that if I focus every ounce of my discipline on fighting each day. Even my gf said to me last night that I am pushing myself too hard to the point of abnormal. She said that when I insisted on running last night before sleep after I had been awake for 36 hours (to try to rotate my sleeping pattern back to night instead of working through the night yet I woke up 4am this morning and couldn't fall asleep again). Past few days I been craving different foods such as yesterday I ate canned salmon with mayonnaise and Ritz-like crackers. First time I allowed myself to eat bread and mayonnaise in many months. Perhaps my digestion is improving, but I am always wary to claim any improvement because oscillated degree of symptoms is the regular pattern for the past 3.5 years (and less continuous symptoms for years before that as stated above).

In short, I am a mess. But I think if I shut my mouth and just try my best, maybe I can accomplish enough in spite of the obstacles.

I can't keep up with normal things because there just isn't enough daily energy to spare for all things. I have to prioritize. So I didn't sell all my Bitcoin for cash last year > $400 so I was fearing the price had crashed and I had missed the boat, but I heard the price is still over $400 but still I have been afraid to google the price because that is the only money I have left to survive on. And I am also hoping someone didn't hack my password interim and steal my Bitcoins. I had been too afraid to check because I have a long laundry list of things I need to do and often I can't organize in my mind everything or it is difficult to explain the feeling from this illness it causes psychological problems such as combinations of extreme nonchalance combined with fear. Confidence and organization is lost because can't keep up with daily life.

Any way maybe I can get organized. Stop typing in forums will help and free up a lot of time. I just hope I can keep my sanity because I can't always do things I want to do otherwise because I don't have the energy or good feeling to do it, so often the forum had been my outlet to remain active and not just sitting there doing nothing or wasting time staring at code because my mind wouldn't kick into high enough gear to code effectively. Because Davao is boring and nothing much to do here besides gym and beach and when I don't feel up for doing those activities then not much I can do to relieve my stress or boredom. So often my mind just stays stuck on the forum topics.

Any way, one reading this would say it is all an issue of discipline, concentration, and will power. Sort of. But chronic illness mucks things up in ways that is very difficult to explain to those who haven't experienced it. And even those who have experienced often (typically) don't even fully comprehend the psychological effects of their own chronic illness.

Long-winded diatribe.

In short, I am going to try to push on. And work smarter and more quietly.

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January 14, 2016, 09:03:52 PM
 #527

https://twitter.com/aeoncurrency/status/687654160045617153

Its poll time. Cast your vote!

When should we ask @Poloniex to list #aeon alongside its other #CryptoNote coins like #monero and #boolberry?

1. Now
2. After LMDB
3. After GUI


I think everyone can ask whenever he or she wants. If someone think it's time to ask after LMDB he or she can wait and ask later. That's how natural "organic" asks look like. Otherwise it can turn into polo flood.

I filed coin request on poloniex months ago right after bittrex listed it.
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January 15, 2016, 12:50:31 AM
 #528

TPTB, you seem to have vast programming knowledge and some great ideas or at least willing to try. Why dont you jump in and help out?  Or start up a coin of your own?
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January 15, 2016, 01:41:13 AM
 #529

TPTB, you seem to have vast programming knowledge and some great ideas or at least willing to try. Why dont you jump in and help out?  Or start up a coin of your own?

He is working on a coin. Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.0
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January 15, 2016, 11:39:22 AM
 #530

Sorry for the threadjack  Embarrassed

It's not my thread so it's not up to me but I wouldn't say that talking about potential markets is really a thread jack.


I enjoy the TPTB posts too
Me too. No one knows where this stuff will go. So it's good to brainstorm
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January 15, 2016, 11:43:52 AM
 #531

https://twitter.com/aeoncurrency/status/687654160045617153

Its poll time. Cast your vote!

When should we ask @Poloniex to list #aeon alongside its other #CryptoNote coins like #monero and #boolberry?

1. Now
2. After LMDB
3. After GUI


Please vote now if you have not already. There are just a few hours left in the 24 hour poll. The vote is currently tied between options 1 and 2 with 44% each with option 3 a distant 3rd with 12%
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January 15, 2016, 01:49:34 PM
 #532

AEON (COIN LOGO) Version 9.1


Without circle.

It's a kind of blindness that reason alone cannot cure.
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January 15, 2016, 01:55:12 PM
Last edit: January 15, 2016, 02:24:30 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #533

TPTB, you seem to have vast programming knowledge and some great ideas or at least willing to try. Why dont you jump in and help out?  Or start up a coin of your own?

He is working on a coin. Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.0

Thank you. Also talking about potential designs here (and I suggest everyone read the linked post below as it may impact your design for Aeon):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1319681.msg13560889#msg13560889

As smooth stated recently upthread, no one man developer can code everything for an ecosystem by himself lonesome. And to create a new block chain design from all new code base (not a single line of code from any other crypto currency thus far) is a significant undertaking. One would hope that efforts could be merged at some point (not necessarily to Aeon, just speaking generally) so as to optimize use of available resources. But orthogonal experimentation is also valuable at this nascent stage of crypto currency. Yet at the time, there is some urgency due to the fact that the developing world is rapidly transitioning into the digital age and Bitcoin (or other plans of the powers that be) are not standing still. Although Bitcoin has a serious scaling and Tragedy of the Commons issues, which is arguably stalling it. Note those are paradigmatic issues I am working on.

So all-in-all, I hope you can understand why I tried to convince smooth to work with me before he was too deep into the Aeon project, but he had already accepted it when I approached him. And my ideas were still too unrefined. Also at that time it looked as though Aeon was a testbed for Monero (or at least that was one of the USPs for it) and at that (June) time I was developing Zero Knowledge Transactions (which I since decided not to implement) so it felt to me that I was rocking the apple cart too much and I wasn't confident enough to risk disturbing other things underway for something that I wasn't sure if I could really accomplish. Also smooth is doing much better with Aeon than he would had we worked on a coin together, so my decision appears to have been correct. I was correctly judging that the risks for me are severe primarily because of a chronic (probably pathological) health issue that is causing me to have erratic (mental, physical, and especially psychological) performance. The health issue is so dominant in my life (it is always there, no relief) that it has changed me from the "say less, code more, methodical achiever" person I was into something I am not quite sure how to describe and characterize.

I am not sure where this is all leading. For now, I guess we can just characterize it as experimentation. Cheers.

P.S. in the upthread discussion about marketing to the developing world markets, I still hold close to my chest (for the time being) some other thoughts about that which I think are much more realistic and a paradigmatic shift in terms of the purpose and goal of what I was leading into.

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January 15, 2016, 02:06:17 PM
 #534

AEON (COIN LOGO) Version 9.1


Without circle.

My favorite so far.
TPTB_need_war
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January 15, 2016, 02:11:53 PM
 #535

AEON (COIN LOGO) Version 9.1


Without circle.

My favorite so far.

I want to make a point about the logo. First of all, Aeon is very short already and it doesn't to me have any strong meaning. It is more of neat sounding, nebulous word.

Thus I don't think people are going to associate a logo of "ae" to "aeon", because they never heard of Aeon before any way.

Thus if at all pleasing graphically, I would put the entire word "aeon" in the logo. K.I.S.S.

I did donate Ion.cash to this project and if you decided to use that name, you could maybe do something more 'ionic' with the imagery. But at this point, seems best you stay with Aeon.

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January 15, 2016, 02:21:48 PM
 #536

AEON (COIN LOGO) Version 9.1


Without circle.

My favorite so far.

I want to make a point about the logo. First of all, Aeon is very short already and it doesn't to me have any strong meaning. It is more of neat sounding, nebulous word.

Thus I don't think people are going to associate a logo of "ae" to "aeon", because they never heard of Aeon before any way.

Thus if at all pleasing graphically, I would put the entire word "aeon" in the logo. K.I.S.S.

I did donate Ion.cash to this project and if you decided to use that name, you could maybe do something more 'ionic' with the imagery. But at this point, seems best you stay with Aeon.

The logo is a graphical representation of the currency symbol æ. According to prior group conversations here and elsewhere, it was deemed logical that a currency should be primarily represented by a symbol, not a logo. As is the case with $ and £ and € and ¥ and Ƀ.

Thus, the logo (as according to the prior discussions) is merely a representation of the symbol that best represents the currency.

Of course, that philosophy (in my view a good one) is not neccesarily set in stone. Neither is the currency symbol.

But until an overwhelming community based decision to change the current impetus wins out, this is the current trajectory we find ourselves on.

It's a kind of blindness that reason alone cannot cure.
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January 15, 2016, 03:35:05 PM
 #537

Oic you all are discussing the currency symbol, not the logo. Or the currency symbol will also be the logo.

Since I now know you are discussing the currency symbol, the discussion about whether to put a circle around it seems to make more sense in terms of being a higher priority discussion (because a circle delineates the otherwise purely textual symbol from nearby text, as well simulating a coin).


Forthecurrencysymbol,e.g.
_____
|A|E|
|O|N|

, there is also desire for it to be a Unicode symbol, so that it can be copy+pasted into UTF-8 text documents.

However, I think what is more important is to produce understanding and something more visually pleasing. If your coin becomes as popular as Bitcoin (which has miniscule adoption also), then your symbol gets added to the Unicode table (as it has for Bitcoin). The 'æ' symbol (with no decoration) in a document is going to be more confusing than positive, so you are going to making an image any way, perhaps with a circle around it. I think I prefer something like a circle with 'aeon' written vertically centered (will look clean and unique). For a larger version of the logo, the 'aeon' could be rendered as being inserted into a horizontal slot in the coin like a vending machine. Or what ever imagery you can think of which also works at the small size for embedding into text (assuming you really want the currency symbol and the logo to look the same). Or perhaps just the 'æ' inside a circle for the currency symbol and 'æon' inside of a circle for the larger logo. If you want to emphasize swiftness, then instead of a circle, you could use speed trails (horizontal lines on the left side) of the text ('æ' and  'æon'). I think there are unicode symbols for these speed lines. Thus you'd have a purely Unicode currency symbol and logo. But this might not be understood to be a currency symbol (no connotation to money). The simplest seems to be 'æ' with a vertical line(s) for currency.

As you know, always try to emphasize a UPS, but the most you may be able to do w.r.t. to the currency symbol is the smashing together of 'a' and 'e', but you still need to decorate it so that it connotates money.

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January 15, 2016, 04:13:26 PM
Last edit: January 15, 2016, 04:24:45 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #538

I still like the name Ion and the currency symbol of a circle with a dot in the center and maybe a vertical line to connotate money. For me that is a much better name than Aeon in some respects but in other respect Aeon is better. Shorter, more technically appealing, sexier, and connotates electronic money. Many people are sad I gave away that name. Perhaps you should use it. Some people will think the old english 'æ' looks anarchic thus is a dubious USP. Then again the bullseye circle with dot in center for Ion is a bit cartoonish perhaps. An empty circle can have the negative connotation of vacuity.

I am contemplating for my coin's symbol/logo to be a lightning bolt, ⚡, superimposed upon a faint letter 'e' (either drawn with dotted lines or thin strokes) if this works at a small size.

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January 15, 2016, 04:23:01 PM
Last edit: January 15, 2016, 04:35:51 PM by cryptodromeda
 #539

Oic you all are discussing the currency symbol, not the logo. Or the currency symbol will also be the logo.

Since I now know you are discussing the currency symbol, the discussion about whether to put a circle around it seems to make more sense in terms of being a higher priority discussion (because a circle delineates the otherwise purely textual symbol from nearby text, as well simulating a coin).


Forthecurrencysymbol,e.g.
_____
|A|E|
|O|N|

, there is also desire for it to be a Unicode symbol, so that it can be copy+pasted into UTF-8 text documents.

However, I think what is more important is to produce understanding and something more visually pleasing. If your coin becomes as popular as Bitcoin (which has miniscule adoption also), then your symbol gets added to the Unicode table (as it has for Bitcoin). The 'æ' symbol (with no decoration) in a document is going to be more confusing than positive, so you are going to making an image any way, perhaps with a circle around it. I think I prefer something like a circle with 'aeon' written vertically centered (will look clean and unique). For a larger version of the logo, the 'aeon' could be rendered as being inserted into a horizontal slot in the coin like a vending machine. Or what ever imagery you can think of which also works at the small size for embedding into text (assuming you really want the currency symbol and the logo to look the same). Or perhaps just the 'æ' inside a circle for the currency symbol and 'æon' inside of a circle for the larger logo. If you want to emphasize swiftness, then instead of a circle, you could use speed trails (horizontal lines on the left side) of the text ('æ' and  'æon'). I think there are unicode symbols for these speed lines. Thus you'd have a purely Unicode currency symbol and logo. But this might not be understood to be a currency symbol (no connotation to money). The simplest seems to be 'æ' with a vertical line(s) for currency.

As you know, always try to emphasize a UPS, but the most you may be able to do w.r.t. to the currency symbol is the smashing together of 'a' and 'e', but you still need to decorate it so that it connotates money.

I think you may have gotten confused.

The æ symbol as it stands without decoration, is the currently operative suggestion for the currency symbol. The current discussions in regard to the logo are based on the premise that a currency should be defined by a symbol, not a logo, as is the case with $ and £ and so on. Such symbols are entirely intellectual in nature, devoid of color and stylism. But, due to the nature of P.R and branding, it is inevitable that some kind of consistent colorised and sylised logo will be used uniformly in relation to the core Aeon infrastructure. As any currency is best represented in practice by its symbol, the full color stylised logo is therefore best spawn and derived from the symbol.

This isn't necessarily a fixed philosophy, but as I understand it, it's the one the community is currently exploring.

However, while it might seem desirable to conceive an entirely new currency symbol from scratch and assume that once Aeon reaches global domination it will be added to the standard Unicode table, for the purposes of thrift and practicality however, it makes more sense to coordinate around an already existing unicode symbol. Unfortunately, the number of already existing unicode symbols that could credibly pertain to Aeon are few in number, and from that small stock, æ has been put forth (as determined by a small BCT straw poll) as the most workable contender.

Agreed, it is a marked difference from the visual nature of traditional currency symbols. Absent are vertical or horizontal lines, and it may be a struggle at first perhaps for the mind to associate it with currency. However, given the radical precipice we currently stand on in respect of the old financial order falling in favor of something different, such visual anarchisms are not necessarily problematic.

In addition, it should be remembered that any currency symbol should also be simple enough to be represented via handwriting. Consider a real marketplace (perhaps in Africa) several years into the future laden with apples, oranges and bananas. While transactions might occure mobile to mobile, it is likely that the price tags would still be represented by a simple magic marker on a post-it-note:-

1kg Apples.
æ500


But the discussion concerning the symbol is, until revoked accordingly, not in discussion here. What we are talking about here, is the core logo that would likely serve as the primary representation of the symbol to be used in all principal Aeon infrastructure.

Contrary to that not being important, I'd say that it's very important. You can have the best technology in the world, but if you don't get the aesthetics right, it's over. Anyone who doesn't understand this is suffering from a sort of 'developer's delusion' whereby they can simply just show up, deliver their messianic genial piece of code to the world, and everyone will fall to their feet in humble submission.

Sadly, it never really works out like that.

It's a kind of blindness that reason alone cannot cure.
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January 15, 2016, 04:38:22 PM
Last edit: January 15, 2016, 05:09:59 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #540

The proposed currency symbol 'æ' without any decoration seems to be somewhat aesthetically pleasing when written immediately adjacent to a price as you have shown. But I use the BTC symbol in my writing often not next to any number, where even bolded æ seems almost a misprint.

The prioritization of being able to type a Unicode symbol into a UTF-8 text document makes assumptions which might not hold true:

  • User doesn't have æ key on his keyboard and can't figure out how to search for the symbol on Google and copy+paste it.
  • The document format doesn't support Unicode correctly.
  • The renderer doesn't render the specific Unicode character.
  • The document is HTML so it could support an image or other CSS means of superimposing decoration on a glyph.
  • The symbol æ is intellectually confusing in some contexts, e.g. when not adjacent to a number which is a price in the context.

I would compare the tradeoffs of that prioritization to the ideas for a more aesthetically and less intellectually confusing symbol.

The symbol æon or æon but with all the letters overlapped, might be aesthetic, compact, intellectually obvious, and a USP as being the first not to use lines or circle in a currency symbol. Would need to be an image, but can be simulated with text as shown. I think I like it!

Edit: image this symbol for Ion: -⊙ n but without the space before the 'n'. Need to search for a better Unicode character as there are several circles with dots in the center. I really like that also. Not very cartoonish. And very, very unique.

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