[To Theymos] Why was Goat banned?

[repentance]

Saying in a serious way that you are leaving should be autoban because either 1. You were leaving anyway 2. You are trolling.

No downside to anyone and might eliminate troll.

Can we also give people who do this a "flounce" tag?

[420]

It was Goats own self righteousness that produced this ban. He could do no wrong, but if you did wrong he would tell you twenty times in your thread then make a new one when yours became to cluttered.

was he ever warned

[LoupGaroux]

Repeatedly, in public and in private. Sometimes puppies just don't want to learn no matter how many times you rub their noses in their own mess.

[stochastic]

I think the ban went overboard.  I propose adding a new subforum for users to go into time-out.

[smoothie]

I think the ban went overboard.  I propose adding a new subforum for users to go into time-out.

Ooh timeout sub forum lol

[Este Nuno]

I think the ban went overboard.  I propose adding a new subforum for users to go into time-out.

Ooh timeout sub forum lol

Can we get a naughty stool sub forum, come on

+1

And the first two members: smoothie and goat.

Who ever comes out alive becomes time out forum mod.

[K1773R]

i was already wondering why goat is no longer spaming trash around ^^ well done

[BCB]

He's GOAT.  On a sunken boat.

[CharlieContent]

I'm not the biggest fan of Goat. Personally I think he's an idiot. Running a PPT should have earned anyone involved a scammer tag.

However, this move to censor him, as many others have said, is worrying.

The justification for his being banned can't be argued with. Anyone who looks through his post history will concur with the fact that he contributed nothing of substance, and was occasionally even a disruptive influence.

It is disturbing to me that this problem came to a head as soon as he criticized Theymos and his private business activities. It feels like his general idiocy has been used as a convenient excuse to ban him. It's very easy to get rid of someone who has an indefensible character, but we should think about the true motives for this action.

The same story applies with Rarity. Rarity was a longstanding troll who was here purely to have some fun, sometimes at the expense of more genuine users. I doubt the person in control of that forum account has ever even owned a Bitcoin. I doubt anyone could come up with a compelling reason why Rarity should not have been banned. The problem is that Rarity was allowed to troll the forum for many months until he directly criticized Theymos. Suddenly trolling which had been previously tolerated became a huge problem, in the same way that Goat's longstanding idiocy and inept investment schemes had been tolerated until he criticized Theymos.

Goat's gibberish was completely invisible to anyone who hit the ignore button. This is how he should have been dealt with. This is how countless users did deal with him. Now he has been censored completely and we should ask ourselves not if we miss him, because we don't, but why he was censored. I for one don't agree with the party line on this subject.

Bitcoin is  a great way to avoid economic control from a higher authority. It's a shame that a more laizzez-faire attitude is not taken to forum moderation too.

This forum is important to the Bitcoin community. It does not belong to Theymos, he is merely the caretaker. He did not create it, he does not own it, it was entrusted to him for the good of the community. He should be held accountable for his actions, for the good of the community. If he continues to impose an iron rule on those who criticize his private business activities, he should be ousted. For the good of the community.

To just allow this to stand is to risk damaging Bitcoin.

And I am sure I will be banned for this post, and I am sure that my past posting history will be used as an ad hominem attack on what I am saying. Yes, I have had some fun on this forum. It has occasionally been at the expense of others. But I believe in Bitcoin. I want it to succeed for both personal and political reasons, and I know that if Theymos and his cabal are allowed to dominate the discourse in by far the largest Bitcoin community then it is bad for Bitcoin. It is also bad for freedom.

[underminer]

I doubt you will be banned for a concise, clear argument like that.  How do you know the "attack" on theymos was not in fact a show?  We know about goat's gimmicks.  Is it so hard to believe that he *knew* he was going down soon for his bad behavior and decided to make as big a show as possible?

His signature certainly screams sensationalism.

[augustocroppo]

This forum is important to the Bitcoin community. It does not belong to Theymos, he is merely the caretaker. He did not create it, he does not own it, it was entrusted to him for the good of the community. He should be held accountable for his actions, for the good of the community. If he continues to impose an iron rule on those who criticize his private business activities, he should be ousted. For the good of the community.

To just allow this to stand is to risk damaging Bitcoin.

This is a private forum. There is no such thing of "community". Theymos was not elected, he was appointed. Therefore, he is entitled to ban whoever he deem necessary to protect his position and the private matters of this board. If you cannot cope with such harsh reality, here is not an appropriate place to you. You are free to leave at any time. But if you are willing to participate in this board, you have to abide with the rules and with who rules.

(...) Yes, I have had some fun on this forum. It has occasionally been at the expense of others. (...)

Oh, how pathetic... You admit to break certain rules but you cannot cope with rules being enforced by the administrator?

[Liberty Payout]

ChrisKoss

That is my point exactly.  Thread derailing.  I have been part of a number of threads as a participant and a reader where information is being conveyed, questions are being asked and answered and a genuine dialogue amongst and between the user is occurring.  Then depending on the time of day and/or how long the thread has been active their are about 6 -12 users (all with orange ignore buttons by the way - you all know who they are) who have absolutely nothing to add to dialogue, picking fights, insulting and generally just taking a dump in the middle of the party and it pretty much down hill from there.

It is really unfortunate.

You do this to nearly all of my threads. So I find this highly hypocritical.

[Liberty Payout]

Read through this entire thread and could not be happier. I remember during the summer when I first signed up here with some spare cash and thousands of ideas. The concept of bitcoin was appealing, imagine a one world currency! Stuff like this had been predicted years ago and now bitcoin was to bring it to life or at least initiate the chain that would (no pun). What I met, however, were narcissists. They attacked me vehemently for making mistakes that could rightfully be contributed to my noobness at this novel concept. I was called a scammer, accused of mulch-accounting, questioned on every aspect. Patronized for not wanting to give my identity information to absolute strangers. If I hadn't had the patience to stay a little longer and listen to the advice of a few good members; I would have done what anyone that has a bad experience with a denomination of a larger community does: I would have become prejudiced and attributed the unappealing attributes I encountered in everyone the first few days of my stay to the entire bitcoin community. I had chosen to wait though and continue building my trust and business in the bitcoin world, and even today some of these people follow me on my threads and post absolute nonsense. Stupid memes, that attribute nothing. If I don't want to deal with someone they come to my thread and call me a scammer. LET THIS COME TO AN END. It doesn't matter that I send back evidence and proof of my prior transactions, these people are just too full of themselves. So I am happy a change is coming to bitcointalk.

[Lethn]

Why put an ignore function in the forum if all you're going to do is ban/delete people you have a problem with? Use the ignore function and everyones happy, who cares if someone posts something stupid? It happens all the time, I've said stupid things before that I kick myself for when I read back on it but I think when we just ban people we disagree with or who have legitimate criticism all we do is just wreck communities. I've seen it happen again and again wherever I go often the thing that kills communities isn't what people complain about, it's when admins try to fashion their own little utopian societies through force.

I'm shamelessly going to plug my website here, but you guys are more than welcome join up on my forum, you can post right away after you join and there's even a chat room I've set up that I've posted the link to, it'll practically be anarchy and I'll be sure to make sure the ignore/block functions work everywhere so you don't have to put up with any nuisance. My only plan regarding it is to ban virus posters and bot spammers.

[K1773R]

Why put an ignore function in the forum if all you're going to do is ban/delete people you have a problem with? Use the ignore function and everyones happy, who cares if someone posts something stupid? It happens all the time, I've said stupid things before that I kick myself for when I read back on it but I think when we just ban people we disagree with or who have legitimate criticism all we do is just wreck communities. I've seen it happen again and again wherever I go often the thing that kills communities isn't what people complain about, it's when admins try to fashion their own little utopian societies through force.

I'm shamelessly going to plug my website here, but you guys are more than welcome join up on my forum, you can post right away after you join and there's even a chat room I've set up that I've posted the link to, it'll practically be anarchy and I'll be sure to make sure the ignore/block functions work everywhere so you don't have to put up with any nuisance. My only plan regarding it is to ban virus posters and bot spammers.

if there would be no control bitcointalk would be to 75% of spammers, scammers and trolls. Im sry some ppl think if they have "freedom" they can du every shit they want.

[augustocroppo]

(...) I've seen it happen again and again wherever I go often the thing that kills communities isn't what people complain about, it's when admins try to fashion their own little utopian societies through force.

I'm shamelessly going to plug my website here, but you guys are more than welcome join up on my forum, you can post right away after you join and there's even a chat room I've set up that I've posted the link to, it'll practically be anarchy and I'll be sure to make sure the ignore/block functions work everywhere so you don't have to put up with any nuisance. My only plan regarding it is to ban virus posters and bot spammers.

One more pathetic argument...

Let's me understand:

You argue that administrators which ban users are trying to "fashion their own little utopian societies", but at the same time you are inviting users to join your new "little utopian societies" forum?

 

[Lethn]

When the hell did I say it was going to be a little utopian society? It's no wonder people are getting banned from here if they're losing their temper with people like you who have the balls to quote someone and completely lie about what they're saying at the same time.

[underminer]

Wow.

new "little utopian societies" forum?

" "
" "
" "

Do you know what those mean?  *You* are a ridiculous person.  I for one am not going to your little patch of crazy staked out on them thar networks.

[CharlieContent]

This is a private forum. There is no such thing of "community". Theymos was not elected, he was appointed. Therefore, he is entitled to ban whoever he deem necessary to protect his position and the private matters of this board. If you cannot cope with such harsh reality, here is not an appropriate place to you. You are free to leave at any time. But if you are willing to participate in this board, you have to abide with the rules and with who rules.

So if someone in power has not been democratically elected they can and should be free to do whatever they want, no matter how unfair or corrupt it is?

With that kind of mindset I wonder why you are even involved in the Bitcoin project.

I think if a man owns a house he should be able to do anything he wants in it. But Theymos does not own this house. He is merely looking after it for the benefit of us who live in it.

This forum is the heart of Bitcoin discourse. It has been since the very beginning of the Bitcoin project. It's not just some private forum that Theymos started.

Theymos doesn't have ownership. He does have a lot of power and a big responsibility, perhaps the biggest responsibility of anyone involved in Bitcoin. If he starts banning people for criticizing him, or any other subjective and extrajudicial reason, then it will negatively effect Bitcoin, and all of us in one way or another. This forum is too closely entwined with the entire Bitcoin project for it to be any other way. It always has been.

If Theymos can not maintain a neutral position, then he should resign and hand the reigns of power over to someone who can enforce the rules consistently and independently of their own subjective feelings or any personal criticism that has been leveled against their private business activities.

(...) Yes, I have had some fun on this forum. It has occasionally been at the expense of others. (...)

Oh, how pathetic... You admit to break certain rules but you cannot cope with rules being enforced by the administrator?

Actually I have only recently had my posting rights reinstated after a 14 day suspension as a result of making a poorly thought out "joke" post.  I absolutely deserved it and you won't see me complain about it here or anywhere else, so yes, I can cope with rules being enforced by the administrator.

I don't have a problem with forum rules. Spammers, scammers and anarchy makes for shitty discussions. The problem is that the rules don't seem to be enforced in a consistent, impersonal and impartial way. If rules suddenly become more strictly enforced when the person who breaks them criticizes the private business practices of the administrator, then we have an unfair situation, wouldn't you agree?

[Lethn]

If Theymos can not maintain a neutral position, then he should resign and hand the reigns of power over to someone who can enforce the rules consistently and independently of their own subjective feelings or any personal criticism that has been leveled against their private business activities.

That's usually when the communities I've been in fall apart, some person comes along thinking they can do better and then everything goes to hell.