[To Theymos] Why was Goat banned?

[Este Nuno]

..glad you are no mod then.

Ente

He is a mod, and seems to do a decent if not good job since I've not seen any problems at all under him and ThiagoCMC.

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[Este Nuno]

And I guess I might as well register my disappointment with Goat being banned.

As a passive observer I have definitely noticed him adding a lot to the forum with all his business ideas and such. Which mostly have not seemed to work out, but have not resulted in him directly scamming anyone(as far as I know anyway). I guess the counter argument to this is that this forum is not meant to be a constant source of drama/entertainment, despite that clearly being the case.

A lot of people clearly just can not stand him at all. Smoothie(OP) being an obvious outspoken Anti-Goatite. I don't really understand why people tend to have such strong reactions to him, like Nefario blowing up and delisting him, and now Theymos doing this. I can only assume there are things going on behind the scenes that I'm simply not aware of.

So I guess I would prefer Goat not to be banned, but if there's more to it than I can see I guess there's not much to say.

[BadBear]

Having all bans/suspensions automatically publicized isn't a very good idea. You're thinking in terms of accountability, but completely forgetting about people's privacy in the process. If poster x gets a week off for posting My Little Pony porn, do you really think that's any of your or anyone else's business? If the poster chooses to make it public that's fine. But that's his choice to make, not yours. 

[Ente]

Having all bans/suspensions automatically publicized isn't a very good idea. You're thinking in terms of accountability, but completely forgetting about people's privacy in the process. If poster x gets a week off for posting My Little Pony porn, do you really think that's any of your or anyone else's business? If the poster chooses to make it public that's fine. But that's his choice to make, not yours. 

I see your point.
Of course it isn't that easy to make anything public once you're banned..
Well, maybe create a subforum "drama and banned" or the like, where anyone may post? Banned people, non-registered people, you name it. This will be hell of a shityard. And, when that is installed, move everything there which belongs there! :-)

Also, when a ban is set, the responsible mod/admin should post stating that he banned some user and which rule was broken.

lolwut
You're not a member in many forums, I see... On 90% of the forums I have an account with they ban anyone who just asks why someone else was banned. They don't even get the chance to question the reasons, unlike here, where it seems to be an habit to start a shitstorm because someone else was banned.
Moderators and Administrators owe you no explanation for their decisions or actions when those decisions and actions don't affect you, even if you think they do owe you something.
No one forced you to register, and if you don't like to be here no one forces you to stay. Just press the logout button and go.

..glad you are no mod then.

Ente

errrmmm... yes, I am...
And the only persons I owe explanations for my actions as a Janitor are Administrators and maybe Global Moderators.

"Other forums are worse" is a bad reason to do something bad.. ;-)
Seems like you do a better job than other forums then. Good!

Ente

[riX]

Also, when a ban is set, the responsible mod/admin should post stating that he banned some user and which rule was broken.

lolwut
You're not a member in many forums, I see... On 90% of the forums I have an account with they ban anyone who just asks why someone else was banned. They don't even get the chance to question the reasons, unlike here, where it seems to be an habit to start a shitstorm because someone else was banned.
Moderators and Administrators owe you no explanation for their decisions or actions when those decisions and actions don't affect you, even if you think they do owe you something.
No one forced you to register, and if you don't like to be here no one forces you to stay. Just press the logout button and go.

This affects me in the way that I'm now aware of one of the unwritten rules which might get me banned if I don't follow it.
If you think that suggesting forum improvements is a sign of me wanting to quit being here, maybe this place is to intellectual for you, and you should hang more on those other 9 forums you have accounts with.

Having all bans/suspensions automatically publicized isn't a very good idea. You're thinking in terms of accountability, but completely forgetting about people's privacy in the process. If poster x gets a week off for posting My Little Pony porn, do you really think that's any of your or anyone else's business? If the poster chooses to make it public that's fine. But that's his choice to make, not yours.

You wouldn't have to state the exact reason, just that something like "user x is banned for y days for breaking rule 4.1".
If users don't know the rules, it's impossible to follow them.
The same rules should apply to everyone, and in my opinion there are both people who deserve to be banned both more and less than goat, if the ban reason was "He wasn't discussing anything anymore, just restating the same points over and over."

[muyuu]

Having all bans/suspensions automatically publicized isn't a very good idea. You're thinking in terms of accountability, but completely forgetting about people's privacy in the process. If poster x gets a week off for posting My Little Pony porn, do you really think that's any of your or anyone else's business? If the poster chooses to make it public that's fine. But that's his choice to make, not yours. 

Must remember to google that when I'm home.

[AndrewBUD]

theymos if that's the criteria could I give you a list of about a dozen other users who should also be banned for the same reason.

And what value is Atlas adding to the conversation??

a good majority of the members here should be banned if that's the case... What happened to free speech? If people don't want to read what he has to say the ignore button is very easy to use.

[deeplink]

It's time for us to move on to the new Bitcoin: respectful, legitimate, honest, productive.

Legitimate is not necessary, as long as the rest, with which I absolutely agree, is being honored.

I reject recent actions (or the lack thereof) and decisions of some operators on this forum. They are too out of whack with my beliefs and due to this I no longer want to be advocating support of this forum. In that light I have decided to ask for my Donator tag to be removed.

People are free to have their own opinion and act according to them. I appreciate that, I am very open and enjoy reading other opinions. But I am feeling very uneasy when advocating support for people or an operation when several lines have been crossed in respect to my own opinions.

I have already openly considered asking for my Donator tag to be removed during the begins of the GLBSE disaster. This thread has made clear to me that this is no longer only a consideration.

Theymos, please respect my wish and remove my Donator status

Keep the money I donated and please use it to compensate customers of GLBSE.

PM to Theymos sent

[davout]

theymos if that's the criteria could I give you a list of about a dozen other users who should also be banned for the same reason.

And what value is Atlas adding to the conversation??

a good majority of the members here should be banned if that's the case... What happened to free speech? If people don't want to read what he has to say the ignore button is very easy to use.

This

[AndrewBUD]

It's time for us to move on to the new Bitcoin: respectful, legitimate, honest, productive.

Legitimate is not necessary, as long as the rest, with which I absolutely agree, is being honored.

I reject recent actions (or the lack thereof) and decisions of some operators on this forum. They are too out of whack with my beliefs and due to this I no longer want to be advocating support of this forum. In that light I have decided to ask for my Donator tag to be removed.

People are free to have their own opinion and act according to them. I appreciate that, I am very open and enjoy reading other opinions. But I am feeling very uneasy when advocating support for people or an operation when several lines have been crossed in respect to my own opinions.

I have already openly considered asking for my Donator tag to be removed during the begins of the GLBSE disaster. This thread has made clear to me that this is no longer only a consideration.

Theymos, please respect my wish and remove my Donator status

Keep the money I donated and please use it to compensate customers of GLBSE.

PM to Theymos sent

Now people are ashamed to be a donator.. wow

[2112]

So I guess I would prefer Goat not to be banned, but if there's more to it than I can see I guess there's not much to say.

I think the "more to it that I can see" is simply that you have more patience for monotone and repeated speech than the most of other people.

I also found Goat,Rarity,bulanula,etc... entertaining to a certain degree. Even I would call them somewhat educational, in a "special education" way of learning how to deal with difficult people.

But the common thing amongst all of them was that they pretended to be idiots so well, that it was getting impossible to distinguish them from the actual idiots.

I think that sufficient condition for not getting banned here is simply to show ability to get influenced by the responses to ones own posts. Basically show a show of comprehension and an ability to change.

[Raoul Duke]

Also, when a ban is set, the responsible mod/admin should post stating that he banned some user and which rule was broken.

lolwut
You're not a member in many forums, I see... On 90% of the forums I have an account with they ban anyone who just asks why someone else was banned. They don't even get the chance to question the reasons, unlike here, where it seems to be an habit to start a shitstorm because someone else was banned.
Moderators and Administrators owe you no explanation for their decisions or actions when those decisions and actions don't affect you, even if you think they do owe you something.
No one forced you to register, and if you don't like to be here no one forces you to stay. Just press the logout button and go.

This affects me in the way that I'm now aware of one of the unwritten rules which might get me banned if I don't follow it.
If you think that suggesting forum improvements is a sign of me wanting to quit being here, maybe this place is to intellectual for you, and you should hang more on those other 9 forums you have accounts with.

Having all bans/suspensions automatically publicized isn't a very good idea. You're thinking in terms of accountability, but completely forgetting about people's privacy in the process. If poster x gets a week off for posting My Little Pony porn, do you really think that's any of your or anyone else's business? If the poster chooses to make it public that's fine. But that's his choice to make, not yours.

You wouldn't have to state the exact reason, just that something like "user x is banned for y days for breaking rule 4.1".
If users don't know the rules, it's impossible to follow them.
The same rules should apply to everyone, and in my opinion there are both people who deserve to be banned both more and less than goat, if the ban reason was "He wasn't discussing anything anymore, just restating the same points over and over."

Sorry, can't agree with you.
If someone is banned, that's between them and the admins.
If a moderator does something you don't like or agree with, PM him or an administrator. Creating a thread about it is unnecessary drama and very fucked up. Or maybe it's not unnecessary drama because it looks like you guys can't live without it. If a week goes by and someones money wasn't stolen there needs to be something else to entertain the plebe. Most of the time is picking up on Moderators and Admins.

Give it a break.
The true rules at any forum are: you piss off the admins, you get banned. Deal with it.

[muyuu]

I may donate again to even it out 

[greyhawk]

Whatever you do as mod/admin you're fucked. If you ban, people shout at you, and if you don't ban, other people shout at you. As mod/admin it's a lose-lose situation. In this respect this forum is exactly like all others.

[Raoul Duke]

Whatever you do as mod/admin you're fucked. If you ban, people shout at you, and if you don't ban, other people shout at you. As mod/admin it's a lose-lose situation. In this respect this forum is exactly like all others.

Except in other forums you get banned for questioning how things are.
The permissive attitude around here feels very good, but... being here is a privilege, not a right. The sooner everyone understands this, the better.

[LoupGaroux]

Item 1: There is no presumption of free speech on a forum, unless and only if free speech is an enumerated rule of the board. Other than that it is a private discussion arena that has rules and policies that are governed and controlled by the arbitrary decisions of those that are in the position to moderate. There is no Bill of Rights that applies. There are standards of courtesy, but these are just courtesy and not binding rules, and can be changed at will by administration, because that is the very nature of their position.

Item 2: All Admins and Moderators have agendas, and often those agendas will be at odds with your thoughts or agendas. In this case a user has gone full tilt at various Authorities, but has done so without any concept of discussion or debate but with the intent to complain and hurl abuse and threats. If Goat had actually participated in a discussion, or presented his thoughts or even his outrage in a civil manner and then defended his feelings he would probably still be here cranking out posts at the rate of three per minute. Instead, he merely repeated the same bizarre ramblings and insults time and time again without displaying the slightest ability to learn from the conversation. As such he is functionally unable to participate in a conversation and the conversation losses nothing by his removal from it.

Item 3: Patience and Questioning Authority. Sorry kids, but this is not a constitutionally organized playground, and the rules are as fluid as the morals of the folks here. Administration was abundantly patient in this case (almost 5,000 posts worth of patient!) and yet one user refused to add anything meaningful to the conversation. There are plenty of others, including myself, who have challenged the GLBSE/BitcoinGlobal ownership group in the matters of the past several weeks, who have not been banned, suspended or warned. Our criticism has been constructive and part of the on-going dialog, and as such has been a valuable contribution as the bitcoin community feels it way through the minefield of business responsibility, trust and integrity. Demanding answers as to why another user has been banned is not germane to the discussion, and probably the outrage is better reserved for a private message to the Admins if your curiosity is really that great. If it is more of a matter of wanting to stir up shit and make a production to advance your side of a discussion, post your own thoughts in a thread of your own, don't use tired and inappropriate censorship dogma. Hitching your wagon to a sinking ship is just not effective.

[BadBear]

You wouldn't have to state the exact reason, just that something like "user x is banned for y days for breaking rule 4.1".

Doesn't really change anything, I don't want to name and shame anyone, or humiliate anyone, that's not the point. It's nobody else's business, and it's their choice.

theymos if that's the criteria could I give you a list of about a dozen other users who should also be banned for the same reason.

And what value is Atlas adding to the conversation??

a good majority of the members here should be banned if that's the case... What happened to free speech? If people don't want to read what he has to say the ignore button is very easy to use.

Not a good majority, just a select few, whoever mentioned Rarity and Bulanula was right on the money.

The only thing we're guilty of is being too lenient in dealing with trolls, and that's probably going to change, at least for the near future. This forum is better off without folks like them and Goat. Free speech is great and something I try to protect, but some people abuse it in order to troll and play the martyr card in hopes of not getting banned. I refuse to protect trolls based on what or who they're attacking any longer.

Whatever you do as mod/admin you're fucked. If you ban, people shout at you, and if you don't ban, other people shout at you. As mod/admin it's a lose-lose situation. In this respect this forum is exactly like all others.

Pretty much. Can't please everybody.

Item 1: There is no presumption of free speech on a forum, unless and only if free speech is an enumerated rule of the board. Other than that it is a private discussion arena that has rules and policies that are governed and controlled by the arbitrary decisions of those that are in the position to moderate. There is no Bill of Rights that applies. There are standards of courtesy, but these are just courtesy and not binding rules, and can be changed at will by administration, because that is the very nature of their position.

Item 2: All Admins and Moderators have agendas, and often those agendas will be at odds with your thoughts or agendas. In this case a user has gone full tilt at various Authorities, but has done so without any concept of discussion or debate but with the intent to complain and hurl abuse and threats. If Goat had actually participated in a discussion, or presented his thoughts or even his outrage in a civil manner and then defended his feelings he would probably still be here cranking out posts at the rate of three per minute. Instead, he merely repeated the same bizarre ramblings and insults time and time again without displaying the slightest ability to learn from the conversation. As such he is functionally unable to participate in a conversation and the conversation losses nothing by his removal from it.

Item 3: Patience and Questioning Authority. Sorry kids, but this is not a constitutionally organized playground, and the rules are as fluid as the morals of the folks here. Administration was abundantly patient in this case (almost 5,000 posts worth of patient!) and yet one user refused to add anything meaningful to the conversation. There are plenty of others, including myself, who have challenged the GLBSE/BitcoinGlobal ownership group in the matters of the past several weeks, who have not been banned, suspended or warned. Our criticism has been constructive and part of the on-going dialog, and as such has been a valuable contribution as the bitcoin community feels it way through the minefield of business responsibility, trust and integrity. Demanding answers as to why another user has been banned is not germane to the discussion, and probably the outrage is better reserved for a private message to the Admins if your curiosity is really that great. If it is more of a matter of wanting to stir up shit and make a production to advance your side of a discussion, post your own thoughts in a thread of your own, don't use tired and inappropriate censorship dogma. Hitching your wagon to a sinking ship is just not effective.

And a great big +1 to this post. It's become pretty clear over the past couple of months Goat had no intention of actually having a discussion.

[Serenata]

1) Set clear rules about when and for how long to halt/ban someone

2) Have one central thread where each case is announced (and except that the thread stays locked)

This is the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. Of course then I still don't like that (in my opinion) baseless banning. But these two points at least set you one step above despotism.

3)

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Ente

I agree and would like to add:

- Allow editing of own posts within 300 seconds of posting. After that no editing should be allowed.
- Consider a system of auto-banning when a member is ignored by more than X other members. The ban can auto-expire and re-engage if the person gets banned by more X members.

[AndrewBUD]

I don't think banning according to how many ignores you have...... Possibly a feature that auto-hides posts of users with tons of ignores like an above poster mentioned.

[cryptoanarchist]

This forum has gone to shit. I'm outta here.