BM1384 Pod Miner plus trade-in/recycling - an interest and feasibility poll

[notlist3d]

Probably not. I'd rather put effort into making a nice open standard design than put effort into rebuilding within someone else's lame mechanical constraints. The idea has previously been considered and rejected.

I really like this part of you building from ground up.  I really don't want to have to buy one of the pods and tear out guts and mount inside.  With this only needing to add a CPU cooler sounds like a very doable build.   

And if it's like the compacs a rock solid design, that is fun to play with.

[pepto]

Will pm you. Now get back to work.

[BLOCK_C]

Your biggest problem is going to be getting functioning S5 chips.  By the time you get enough of them the network will have grown and it won't be as viable.  An easier way than putting all this effort into it would be to simply undervolt an S5 by putting say 11v instead of 12v into it to achieve better efficiency.

[sobe-it]

Your biggest problem is going to be getting functioning S5 chips.  By the time you get enough of them the network will have grown and it won't be as viable.  An easier way than putting all this effort into it would be to simply undervolt an S5 by putting say 11v instead of 12v into it to achieve better efficiency.

he bought a batch of s5 chips from bitmain months ago. but he would also be using used ones.

[sidehack]

Correct. Saying "Your biggest problem is going to be getting functioning S5 chips" is pretty much repeating what I said myself in the very first post, and then offered a solution to that problem as noted in the first post and as the second option of the poll. This project exists because of dead S5 boards as a source of chips.

The project would be even less viable if I didn't have that as a material source, because even if Bitmain would sell me more chips (they won't, I've asked repeatedly) they'd be cost-prohibitive (about $26 per pod just for the ASICs) and instead of a $50 purchase option you'd see a $75 option, minimum.

If I'm allowed to simile, your suggestion is akin to telling me I should worry about rebuilding engines for drag racers because it's a better use of time than designing motorcycles from junkyard parts. Not only is the customer base different, but the whole concept is different. I'm not trying to solve the problem of making the S5 more efficient for the people who have one that works. I'm solving the problem of having one that doesn't work, and the problem of retired miners gathering dust, and the problem of no good options for entry-level miners and lottery boxes.

Maybe I'll tackle your S5 undervolt problem next week. Right now I don't care.

[VirosaGITS]

Correct. Saying "Your biggest problem is going to be getting functioning S5 chips" is pretty much repeating what I said myself in the very first post, and then offered a solution to that problem as noted in the first post and as the second option of the poll. This project exists because of dead S5 boards as a source of chips.

The project would be even less viable if I didn't have that as a material source, because even if Bitmain would sell me more chips (they won't, I've asked repeatedly) they'd be cost-prohibitive (about $26 per pod just for the ASICs) and instead of a $50 purchase option you'd see a $75 option, minimum.

If I'm allowed to simile, your suggestion is akin to telling me I should worry about rebuilding engines for drag racers because it's a better use of time than designing motorcycles from junkyard parts. Not only is the customer base different, but the whole concept is different. I'm not trying to solve the problem of making the S5 more efficient for the people who have one that works. I'm solving the problem of having one that doesn't work, and the problem of retired miners gathering dust, and the problem of no good options for entry-level miners and lottery boxes.

Maybe I'll tackle your S5 undervolt problem next week. Right now I don't care.

With proper volt control, these pods could be of interest at 50$(or one dead S5 board) each if one could buy enough in one go to be worthwhile. You would need to buy/sell them in small batches because of the the numbers are as such;

Buying a used S5 including shipping right now= 0.2$-0.26$/GH.

One pod + shipping to Canada = 0.4$/GH if the pod include the fan/heatsink you said you had somewhat available = no amount of fanciness can cover that price as a ROI-able investment. However;

6 Pods at 50$ea, which is the seller's price on the marketplace atm for a S5 + shipping would now give you a total of 340$~ so the % of money going to shipping is much lower. The final number become 0.28$/GH which is reasonable at the moment + quiet/volt control very much justify the extra price for people with cheap electricity.

I think the project with the figures you mentioned can be feasible at current market values. If you can pull it off before difficulty make this impossible or a new option lower the value of such a pod considerably, this would sound pretty tasty.

In current condition and prices(assuming it include the heatsink/fan already) i'd be inclined to fill 3000watts with these at home assuming they can do the 190gh per unit at 0.5~ efficiency.

[sidehack]

To be fair, someone in Canada with 3KW to spare also isn't really the target customer. I have nothing against Canda, but filling 3KW with 80W pod miners doesn't seem terribly practical. I mean that's fine; if you pay for 'em and I can get the materials together I'll build 'em. But I'm looking more at people who want entry-level, who don't want the size of an S3 or the noise (and expense) of an S5. Comparing this to an S5 makes some sense in that they're in the same efficiency class, but they're not in the same use-case class, power class, size class or really much else.

[VirosaGITS]

To be fair, someone in Canada with 3KW to spare also isn't really the target customer. I have nothing against Canda, but filling 3KW with 80W pod miners doesn't seem terribly practical. I mean that's fine; if you pay for 'em and I can get the materials together I'll build 'em. But I'm looking more at people who want entry-level, who don't want the size of an S3 or the noise (and expense) of an S5. Comparing this to an S5 makes some sense in that they're in the same efficiency class, but they're not in the same use-case class, power class, size class or really much else.

I don't think your pod fit the entry-level miner to familiarize themselves with bitcoin either. I would recommend the sidehack stick for that. It doesn't make any noise, is cheap, cheap to run and doesnt take any space.

If you target the few people, only in the US, who want to run a single one next to their router for fun, learning and well just having one little miner that isin't meant to be ROI'd.

Then sure that could be your target, which would work if you only plan on making a handful of these.

Because as purely a recycling small scale plan, this would only be for US customers;

Ffor one pod or two, and i ship you a dead board. And then i pay for shipping back, that would be more money than just buying a S3 and undervolting it, getting same efficiency range and more hash and more hash/$.

Its totally okay if that is not your plan, but then i can't tell if its feasible.

[sidehack]

Within the US, shipping a dead board and me shipping the miner is going to cost less than $15 total.

Right now I am able to make about 50. I have that many chips. It's worth it to me to make that many anyway even if I don't sell them, because nothing beats the $/GH I'd have in materials from stuff I already have, not even your S3, and nothing beats the efficiency except the S7 and I sure as heck ain't gonna pay for one of those. If I make more than that it's because other people are getting in on it and sending boards I can raid for parts, or because demand is high enough that I go find more parts anyway.

Also, how does the S3 get the same efficiency range if this thing is about 0.3 to 0.55 wall? Is the best-case for an S3 that low? I guess the very bottom end for an S3 is comparable to the very top end of this guy, but the difference is in two months the bottom end of the S3 is no longer viable while this thing would probably run you all the way to the halving. The S3 is closer to this guy's use-case than the S5 to be sure, but still not really the same. This is a U3 replacement, or a New R-Box replacement, not an S3 or S5 replacement.

And yes, in the grand scheme of things I likely will only build "a handful".

[notlist3d]

To be fair, someone in Canada with 3KW to spare also isn't really the target customer. I have nothing against Canda, but filling 3KW with 80W pod miners doesn't seem terribly practical. I mean that's fine; if you pay for 'em and I can get the materials together I'll build 'em. But I'm looking more at people who want entry-level, who don't want the size of an S3 or the noise (and expense) of an S5. Comparing this to an S5 makes some sense in that they're in the same efficiency class, but they're not in the same use-case class, power class, size class or really much else.

I don't think your pod fit the entry-level miner to familiarize themselves with bitcoin either. I would recommend the sidehack stick for that. It doesn't make any noise, is cheap, cheap to run and doesnt take any space.

If you target the few people, only in the US, who want to run a single one next to their router for fun, learning and well just having one little miner that isin't meant to be ROI'd.

Then sure that could be your target, which would work if you only plan on making a handful of these.

Because as purely a recycling small scale plan, this would only be for US customers;

Ffor one pod or two, and i ship you a dead board. And then i pay for shipping back, that would be more money than just buying a S3 and undervolting it, getting same efficiency range and more hash and more hash/$.

Its totally okay if that is not your plan, but then i can't tell if its feasible.

Sadly this is the world of asics.   Some countries make it harder to be a customer then others.   US to US is as bout as simple as it gets.    And shipping as long as it does not weight a ton can be done at a decent price.

I think on recycle US will make most sense unless you find some great shipping rates in canada or other places.  The pod is still in the category of past pods, and U3 I believe.  So comparing it and S3 are apples and oranges.   And sidehacks will be much more efficient then S3 and funner to play with.  

I would not knock scale.   I think there is a decent amount of loyal customers sidehack and novak have made, including myself. Sidehack is right if your looking to fill 3000 k watts you honestly are looking for a bigger miner.  I cant imagine 3k watts of any pod at this point.  

[VirosaGITS]

Within the US, shipping a dead board and me shipping the miner is going to cost less than $15 total.

Right now I am able to make about 50. I have that many chips. It's worth it to me to make that many anyway even if I don't sell them, because nothing beats the $/GH I'd have in materials from stuff I already have, not even your S3, and nothing beats the efficiency except the S7 and I sure as heck ain't gonna pay for one of those. If I make more than that it's because other people are getting in on it and sending boards I can raid for parts, or because demand is high enough that I go find more parts anyway.

Also, how does the S3 get the same efficiency range if this thing is about 0.3 to 0.55 wall? Is the best-case for an S3 that low? I guess the very bottom end for an S3 is comparable to the very top end of this guy, but the difference is in two months the bottom end of the S3 is no longer viable while this thing would probably run you all the way to the halving. The S3 is closer to this guy's use-case than the S5 to be sure, but still not really the same. This is a U3 replacement, or a New R-Box replacement, not an S3 or S5 replacement.

And yes, in the grand scheme of things I likely will only build "a handful".

I had not realized the value of this unit for people who have high electricity cost to validate the unit's ability to go down to 0.3. I have no argument there.

I figured if going from 0.5 to 0.3 and losing half the hashrate on the unit is your target, then i think that range is already obsolete for such a person, because of the price of the unit.

The math i did was undervolting the S3 down to the 0.5X range would give more hashrate for the same efficiency than that pod, for less than just shipping you a board back and forth.

And thats only because US/Canada shipping became crazy after 9-11. Its not because the S3 is a better unit.

In my mind, this unit you'd be building is already obsolete to people who pay their electricity, thus i would of imagined you would target people where $/GHs is more important than GHs/J because of how cheap their electricity is.

To be fair, someone in Canada with 3KW to spare also isn't really the target customer. I have nothing against Canda, but filling 3KW with 80W pod miners doesn't seem terribly practical. I mean that's fine; if you pay for 'em and I can get the materials together I'll build 'em. But I'm looking more at people who want entry-level, who don't want the size of an S3 or the noise (and expense) of an S5. Comparing this to an S5 makes some sense in that they're in the same efficiency class, but they're not in the same use-case class, power class, size class or really much else.

I don't think your pod fit the entry-level miner to familiarize themselves with bitcoin either. I would recommend the sidehack stick for that. It doesn't make any noise, is cheap, cheap to run and doesnt take any space.

If you target the few people, only in the US, who want to run a single one next to their router for fun, learning and well just having one little miner that isin't meant to be ROI'd.

Then sure that could be your target, which would work if you only plan on making a handful of these.

Because as purely a recycling small scale plan, this would only be for US customers;

Ffor one pod or two, and i ship you a dead board. And then i pay for shipping back, that would be more money than just buying a S3 and undervolting it, getting same efficiency range and more hash and more hash/$.

Its totally okay if that is not your plan, but then i can't tell if its feasible.

Sadly this is the world of asics.   Some countries make it harder to be a customer then others.   US to US is as bout as simple as it gets.    And shipping as long as it does not weight a ton can be done at a decent price.

I think on recycle US will make most sense unless you find some great shipping rates in canada or other places.  The pod is still in the category of past pods, and U3 I believe.  So comparing it and S3 are apples and oranges.   And sidehacks will be much more efficient then S3 and funner to play with.  

I would not knock scale.   I think there is a decent amount of loyal customers sidehack and novak have made, including myself. Sidehack is right if your looking to fill 3000 k watts you honestly are looking for a bigger miner.  I cant imagine 3k watts of any pod at this point.  

Why? Filling 2 breaker with this is only 20~ units.

[RichBC]

This is a great project, would be so nice to see some recycling, and as I have a couple of faulty S5 Boards I am a customer for it, but.... it does not solve my problem...

I already have a fully underclocked & undervolted S5 giving close to 0.3J/GH at the wall, but.... as my electricity is 15 Cents / KW it will just about remain profitable until the halving at which point it's great money looser.

What I would like is an S7 that could be fully undervolted and I could then probably keep mining profitably for at least another 6 Months, but.... I do not want the outlay of an S7....

So, what I look forward to is your MK2 with the BM1385 chip.   You have said that you don't like the idea of tearing down a perfectly good $600 S7 Hash Board, but... and I am sure you have done the maths.

If with a bit of price reduction & some value for the controller & other parts that could be $540, to make the maths easy,  then that's $10 a chip, which is not bad.

So if the MK2 had 4 BM1385 chips then at 775MHz taking about 50W that gives 155GH/S and at 425MHz for about 15W would give 85GH/S

I would very happily pay $100+ for one of these.  

Rich

[philipma1957]

this item works for me as a supplement to the 20 sticks I run.

my hubs have 38 usb jacks I have 20 sticks I can add 1 to 5 of these.  I am running a pc to do the sticks and a node.  this means I have spare pcie power for maybe 4 of these.

If I place these carefully the heatsink fans cooling them can help to cool my usb sticks.

translation for some that get .4 watts or .3 watts a gh  with them I will be doing better then that.

I like this because if it works and carries into the future to salvaged s-7 boards   would do that.  I also have 2 s-7's running so I may pull a board and ship it to sidehack in a while.

This idea does not work if you don't have a dead s-5 or a lot of spare parts or a setup that can use these at 0 extra cost (me and my sidehack sticks)

Is this ideal build no an ideal build is one from s-7 chips sold at cost to sidehack.

Why would bitmaintach want to sell sidehack 2000 s-7 chips at next to cost?  Well they don't want to sell him any at all.

 They should do it an ask for a no compete agreement.  ie max size sidehack could build would be 5 s-7 chips which would be about 400gh at 100 watts.

I actually think it would be good business for bitmaintech to do this.  I also think it would be good for btc for sidehack and for the smaller miner.  But thats my take on it.  Bitmaintech is not going for an s-7 chip sale at the moment.

[AJRGale]

I'm all in for trading, you can have $50 and all my NRB boards, also if you want, cases and sinks too. but they are all dead, thanks to plugging the usb into a laptop, when the box is connected to a PSU, or vice-versa. (floating earth to grounded earth)..

i just want my 400Ghs back

but be prepared to gather a lot of junk if you want to head this path.

hell, i might buy the depopulated boards off you, for gold/silver scrapping :-? (shipping gonna be a killer though)

[sloopy]

If he really shipped all of the boards he ends up pulling to you for scrapping the gold-silver then double-bag them in wall mart sacks and put them in duffel bags.
By the time they get to you, they will be already ground in powder from being kicked, thrown, and beaten dust by the shipping company.



On another note, I think it is a great idea for people to understand trying to ROI on this is not the main attraction.

On yet another note, Phil you are exactly right, it would serve to help increase BITMAIN and other mining manufacturers income, but at this time, only BITMAIN would make money selling sidehack chips.
1. They make profit from the initial sale of the chips. They are probably charging 160% markup (or more) where standard markup is around 60%.
2. The people who are introduced to mining.
I understand mining is for the big players who claim 1 PH+, and even the hundreds of TH players when discussing top level support, best price, etc.
I also understand that there is a high chance some of these less expensive, "community-driven" and / or "community-vetted" devices are going to be gifts (great gifts), etc and will have a high chance of being in the living areas to be seen.

It is smart for BITMAIN to support these guys. It is great advertisement, it gives BITMAIN a customer approval rating bump the end product is running on their chips. If you have the parts sitting around nothing else better is going to come along.

It may not be for everyone, but I do not think it is a bad idea at all no matter what anyone says.

I think some people are itching to get their S7, or maybe have become a bit jaded about mining. Understandable.
If someone thinks this is a bad move, regarding mining in general - are you considering the alternatives available to you?
This isn't a buy coin and hold or buy miner debate. As has been pointed out, apples to oranges and all that.

You can put me down for $50 and I appreciate it guys. Next stop TypeZero

[chiguireitor]

Shipping from Venezuela to the US is about $5 for a dead board via DHL, reaches destination in 1 or 2 days. Dead cheap too. I think i can scrounge enough boards around here for that, gotta begin hunting them.

This pod thing... this is genius... my country needs these kind of miners because:

• Most people can't afford even a S5
• Heat... lots of it everywhere
• i7 heatsinks are dead cheap here, i guess a pack of 20-30 pods without heatsinks would be VERY cheap on the freight side

The pendrive thingy is really hot around here... even $1.2/mo (@375-400 mhz) for most people here covers about all the basic services (electric bill, internet, cable tv, water) without breaking a sweat... so yeah, pod miners are the way to go.

I guess a lot of people from third world countries will enjoy these and the GH/$ ratio can make a net positive impact on lot of lives (more than you can think of).

Take for example my country: Minimum wage here is about 7k VEF, which is about $10. Those pods, at the max speed will make what people earn from a whole month of VERY hard work. This is sorely needed 'round here.

[sidehack]

I'm not sure how a device you can get for free or close to free which will quietly generate 100GH from about 35W - which is more efficient than any miner (which I didn't build) that you can buy for less than $1500 - is already obsolete.

I honestly didn't expect to see as many people voting for the "I'd pay $50 for that" option, because as mentioned, the $/GH isn't so great. If I was buying chips straight from Bitmain it'd be even worse. At top clock it's about 0.25$/GH but that's also at 0.5W/GH where the S3 at 0.5W/GH is probably priced comparably but you get a bit more hashrate from a single unit - except it also has no future.

Anyone wanting to run 3KW should probably fill it with S3 or S5 or S7. Monolithic units with less per-unit overhead. As soon as I can (which is to say, as soon as someone has available chips worth using), I'll be building TypeZero boards that run up to 300W each and mount on the S1 chassis. Then I'll meet the needs of people who want to run 3KW or 30KW or whatever. This is more for people who want gifts, toys or lottery machines but want something bigger than stick miners. Honestly, if Bitmain keeps making things on the scale of the S4+ or S7, I really won't be competing in their domain. They're building big KW boxes and jet turbines and I prefer to specifically avoid that.

If I can get BM1385 chips, I'd probably port the 8-chip design straight across. It'd actually be easier to design with the new chips because Bitmain did a heck of a good job with the pinout and integrated features. You might not be able to push the chips quite as far as the 1384 design because the per-chip currents increase for the same power dissipation, so with a good cooler you'd run into power availability limits before you ran into power dissipation limits. But it'd still be a heck of a good little box.

chig, if you can get a board from Venezuela to the US for $5, make sure to send a shipping label because I guarantee I can't get get a board to you for that price. Maybe with the absolute cheapest slow-boat takes-a-month shipping option. Maybe.

[notlist3d]

To be fair, someone in Canada with 3KW to spare also isn't really the target customer. I have nothing against Canda, but filling 3KW with 80W pod miners doesn't seem terribly practical. I mean that's fine; if you pay for 'em and I can get the materials together I'll build 'em. But I'm looking more at people who want entry-level, who don't want the size of an S3 or the noise (and expense) of an S5. Comparing this to an S5 makes some sense in that they're in the same efficiency class, but they're not in the same use-case class, power class, size class or really much else.

I don't think your pod fit the entry-level miner to familiarize themselves with bitcoin either. I would recommend the sidehack stick for that. It doesn't make any noise, is cheap, cheap to run and doesnt take any space.

If you target the few people, only in the US, who want to run a single one next to their router for fun, learning and well just having one little miner that isin't meant to be ROI'd.

Then sure that could be your target, which would work if you only plan on making a handful of these.

Because as purely a recycling small scale plan, this would only be for US customers;

Ffor one pod or two, and i ship you a dead board. And then i pay for shipping back, that would be more money than just buying a S3 and undervolting it, getting same efficiency range and more hash and more hash/$.

Its totally okay if that is not your plan, but then i can't tell if its feasible.

Sadly this is the world of asics.   Some countries make it harder to be a customer then others.   US to US is as bout as simple as it gets.    And shipping as long as it does not weight a ton can be done at a decent price.

I think on recycle US will make most sense unless you find some great shipping rates in canada or other places.  The pod is still in the category of past pods, and U3 I believe.  So comparing it and S3 are apples and oranges.   And sidehacks will be much more efficient then S3 and funner to play with.  

I would not knock scale.   I think there is a decent amount of loyal customers sidehack and novak have made, including myself. Sidehack is right if your looking to fill 3000 k watts you honestly are looking for a bigger miner.  I cant imagine 3k watts of any pod at this point.  

Why? Filling 2 breaker with this is only 20~ units.

The builder himself designing them said 3000 watt filler is not what they are meant for on target audience.   For one reason if there are a limited amount of these selling 20 to one person chances are is a lot of them.    And you really do not want to mine with 20 devices when you have an option for 1 or 2.

If your just trying to fill up 3k make your life easier and get a S5 or S7.   But these pods will be a ton of fun to play with I already want one.  I think I have an addiction.

[beffje]

I would be in. I have 2 S5 boards and 2 S1's.
So if i get this right and you will start this project. I send you the boards and you send me working pods? Sounds like a plan.

[chiguireitor]

...

chig, if you can get a board from Venezuela to the US for $5, make sure to send a shipping label because I guarantee I can't get get a board to you for that price. Maybe with the absolute cheapest slow-boat takes-a-month shipping option. Maybe.

Prolly going to use my FL based courier, so the standard US-$15 rate would apply.