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Author Topic: IOTA  (Read 1360944 times)
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Come-from-Beyond
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April 03, 2016, 09:15:06 PM
 #3261

FYI: Address generation scheme has changed.
Could you please elaborate. If I used an address generated by original algo on collect.iotatoken.com to claim Iotas, are they lost now?

No. Upon the first launch of wallet you'll get an option to transfer iotas from old address to new one opened with the same seed.
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April 03, 2016, 09:54:22 PM
 #3262

That is a large sum.

Is the official position that these tokens will be now be used towards funding the foundation? Incredible that people failed to claim that much.

If the foundation does take that amount, how close are we to both the DEAL and the FOUNDATION pledges being completed?




5 million goes to the foundation, 5 million to Jinn development and the rest to immediate projects like a professional new website, a professional 2 min video explaining what IOTA is and what it is for and some other tasks.

I appreciate the need, but I'm still conflicted with this decision. It's possible for someone to be unable to follow iOta for many months and still have a valid reason. What about extending the time period but reducing the amount;

4 months 90%
5 months 80%
6 months 70%
7 months 60%
8 months 50%
9 months 40%
10 months 30%
11 months 20%
12 months 10%

what would bitcoin jesus do?


My feeling is simple. There were terms and conditions. In a decentralized community there needs to be accountability. I like the no tolerance rules. I think its the right thing to do. We shouldn't be assholes, but there must be consequences. And accountability from top down.

Terms & conditions can mask morality, and that's how banks treat people, hiding behind fine print to rip people off http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-05/comminsure-denying-heart-attack-claims/7218818

I like tolerance myself, and respect for others property. We should make it our goal to find these people, or wait for them.

There is simply no way to 'wait' indefinitely. It's been months since the ICO. If we want to be extra nice, maybe release 25% to foundation/Jinn shortly. And then release remaining in chunks of 25% over 3 months. If we can just hold the IOTA through the developers or foundation.

FOR RENT.
iotatoken
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April 03, 2016, 10:03:31 PM
 #3263

It's a 100% settled issue, the funds will be allocated 100% like has been stated and planned all along. Those who did not take 1 minute to collect in 3 months simply do not care enough about IOTA. If they want iota later on for some project they are working on (IOTA is software after all, not some right to profit), they can buy from an exchange like everyone else.

People NEED to get out of this parochial "crypto" mindset, IOTA is a IoT standard project, not some speculation game, so it makes absolutely no sense to hold iotas for people who don't care or contribute to the project, they can always buy on an exchange. Period.

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April 03, 2016, 10:22:14 PM
 #3264

It's a 100% settled issue, the funds will be allocated 100% like has been stated and planned all along. Those who did not take 1 minute to collect in 3 months simply do not care enough about IOTA. If they want iota later on for some project they are working on (IOTA is software after all, not some right to profit), they can buy from an exchange like everyone else.

People NEED to get out of this parochial "crypto" mindset, IOTA is a IoT standard project, not some speculation game, so it makes absolutely no sense to hold iotas for people who don't care or contribute to the project, they can always buy on an exchange. Period.

Agreed.

FOR RENT.
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April 03, 2016, 10:47:52 PM
Last edit: April 03, 2016, 11:05:08 PM by kennyP
 #3265

Those who did not take 1 minute to collect in 3 months simply do not care enough about IOTA.

I respect your right to make this decision, but your statement above is not true! There are many valid reasons why someone may have not claimed their IOTA in 90 days (e.g. sickness). Saying the reason is "they simply do not care" for 100% of cases is wrong. Many will have a good reason. Your company wants to put the unclaimed 11M IOTA to good use, that's wise, but why not make a contingency for valid claims? Why not delegate a panel of 3 people to decide the merits of any claims up to say 2 years. You could demand real world proof (like my friend who had a stroke), he was able to show proof of what happened to him, and some organisations treated him humanely (removed fines & charges etc from the 3 years he was brain damaged and unable to manage his affairs etc), but some didn't. They said having a stroke and being brain damaged and needing to learn to talk & walk again wasn't a good enough excuse on why he didn't renew his licence, or return his blockbuster DVD's, or pay that bill. You wouldn't believe how stupid people could sound when they tried to say it was his fault for having a stroke.

I'm not suggesting you engage in a NEM styled sockpuppet fest that goes on for years, just a little common sense, and common decency. Just leave open the possibility for genuine cases to get something. Why? Because it's the wise thing to do, it's the smart thing to do, you can still do it, and people want to support crypto projects with strong ethics & values.

edit: I would add that being 'really busy' is NOT a valid reason. Everyone is busy and needs to prioritize scarce time resources. I'm thinking extreme things, like sickness, accidents, things that can incapacitate people for months
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April 03, 2016, 11:08:55 PM
 #3266

Those who did not take 1 minute to collect in 3 months simply do not care enough about IOTA.

I respect your right to make this decision, but your statement above is not true! There are many valid reasons why someone may have not claimed their IOTA in 90 days (e.g. sickness). Saying the reason is "they simply do not care" for 100% of cases is wrong. Many will have a good reason. Your company wants to put the unclaimed 11M IOTA to good use, that's wise, but why not make a contingency for valid claims? Why not delegate a panel of 3 people to decide the merits of any claims up to say 2 years. You could demand real world proof (like my friend who had a stroke), he was able to show proof of what happened to him, and some organisations treated him humanely (removed fines & charges etc from the 3 years he was brain damaged and unable to manage his affairs etc), but some didn't. They said having a stroke and being brain damaged and needing to learn to talk & walk again wasn't a good enough excuse on why he didn't renew his licence, or return his blockbuster DVD's, or pay that bill. You wouldn't believe how stupid people could sound when they tried to say it was his fault for having a stroke.

I'm not suggesting you engage in a NEM styled sockpuppet fest that goes on for years, just a little common sense, and common decency. Just leave open the possibility for genuine cases to get something. Why? Because it's the wise thing to do, it's the smart thing to do, you can still do it, and people want to support crypto projects with strong ethics & values.

edit: I would add that being 'really busy' is NOT a valid reason. Everyone is busy and needs to prioritize scarce time resources. I'm thinking extreme things, like sickness, accidents, things that can incapacitate people for months

wise words imo, nothing in life is black & white, leave room for a decision based on the situation, it's not like you're gonna create much work, chances are no one will ever ask or if they do it'll be an easy 'no' because they'll have forgotten or not cared enough to look.

It seems crazy not to leave room for a judgement call based on circumstances.

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April 03, 2016, 11:13:14 PM
 #3267

No. Upon the first launch of wallet you'll get an option to transfer iotas from old address to new one opened with the same seed.

Now I don't get it... My IOTA address is the same as it always was. Last listing you posted I found it with correct amount of IOTA on it... Please would you explain?

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April 03, 2016, 11:15:57 PM
 #3268

Those who did not take 1 minute to collect in 3 months simply do not care enough about IOTA.
I respect your right to make this decision, but your statement above is not true! There are many valid reasons why someone may have not claimed their IOTA in 90 days (e.g. sickness). Saying the reason is "they simply do not care" for 100% of cases is wrong. Many will have a good reason. Your company wants to put the unclaimed 11M IOTA to good use, that's wise, but why not make a contingency for valid claims? Why not delegate a panel of 3 people to decide the merits of any claims up to say 2 years. You could demand real world proof (like my friend who had a stroke), he was able to show proof of what happened to him, and some organisations treated him humanely (removed fines & charges etc from the 3 years he was brain damaged and unable to manage his affairs etc), but some didn't. They said having a stroke and being brain damaged and needing to learn to talk & walk again wasn't a good enough excuse on why he didn't renew his licence, or return his blockbuster DVD's, or pay that bill. You wouldn't believe how stupid people could sound when they tried to say it was his fault for having a stroke.
I'm not suggesting you engage in a NEM styled sockpuppet fest that goes on for years, just a little common sense, and common decency. Just leave open the possibility for genuine cases to get something. Why? Because it's the wise thing to do, it's the smart thing to do, you can still do it, and people want to support crypto projects with strong ethics & values.

First of all, rules are rules. Every country has its own rules. However, let's play an assumption game. Assuming a coin uses your rules instead of IOTA's rules. Even a person comes very late and has a perfect reason and can prove it, you still don't have to keep the coins for this person. You can refund the btc to this person.
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April 03, 2016, 11:27:58 PM
 #3269

First of all, rules are rules. Every country has its own rules. However, let's play an assumption game. Assuming a coin uses your rules instead of IOTA's rules. Even a person comes very late and has a perfect reason and can prove it, you still don't have to keep the coins for this person. You can refund the btc to this person.

Yes, refunding btc would be better than the current IOTA policy of keeping the bitcoins and absorbing the IOTA. Does anybody think otherwise?
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April 03, 2016, 11:31:19 PM
 #3270

First of all, rules are rules. Every country has its own rules. However, let's play an assumption game. Assuming a coin uses your rules instead of IOTA's rules. Even a person comes very late and has a perfect reason and can prove it, you still don't have to keep the coins for this person. You can refund the btc to this person.
Yes, refunding btc would be better than the current IOTA policy of keeping the bitcoins and absorbing the IOTA. Does anybody think otherwise?

Again, that is your own rule. I am not talking about IOTA's rules. You are free to speak out your thoughts.
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April 03, 2016, 11:38:40 PM
 #3271

This has already been settled guys... enough is enough now. We can't make every decision open ended for weeks at a time, there will always be something to change or fix. Better to establish a set of terms and follow those terms to the best of everyones ability.

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April 03, 2016, 11:51:02 PM
 #3272

First of all, rules are rules. Every country has its own rules. However, let's play an assumption game. Assuming a coin uses your rules instead of IOTA's rules. Even a person comes very late and has a perfect reason and can prove it, you still don't have to keep the coins for this person. You can refund the btc to this person.
Yes, refunding btc would be better than the current IOTA policy of keeping the bitcoins and absorbing the IOTA. Does anybody think otherwise?

Again, that is your own rule. I am not talking about IOTA's rules. You are free to speak out your thoughts.

There are fair rules, and unfair rules, and it's obviously subjective. I think IOTA rules as I understand them were clear, but hypothetically not fair. I gave an example (a guy has a stroke), if someone in that position loses his IOTA stash I would feel very sorry for him. Anyone who hides behind "but we had rules, it's not our problem" needs to use empathy to imagine being a guy like that. One day you 'wake up' and realise you had a stroke and have lost many months or years of consciousness, and IOTA was a huge success and made stakeholders lots of life changing wealth, but your stake was absorbed and you got nothing. How would you feel? Use your power of imagination for a second. People have catastrophic events like this everyday, so it's possible some IOTA late-comers might have explanations like this. Why don't we consider this 'possibility' while we still can, so the IOTA distribution is better. Common sense says I'm right. If you doubt that imagine waking up from a coma and being told you had a catastrophic sickness/accident, AND you lost a chance for wealth from IOTA. Would you feel OK because IOTA company followed their 'rules', or would you be freaking out and thinking of ending your life?

The change I suggest is very easy to accommodate. It's not hard to say "we have open minds & ears to consider cases" Will the 11M IOTA be spent immediately, or will it sit in accounts being spent as needed?
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April 04, 2016, 12:14:51 AM
 #3273

Now I don't get it... My IOTA address is the same as it always was. Last listing you posted I found it with correct amount of IOTA on it... Please would you explain?

Old-format address is the same. New-format address will differ.
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April 04, 2016, 12:22:55 AM
 #3274

Yes, refunding btc would be better than the current IOTA policy of keeping the bitcoins and absorbing the IOTA. Does anybody think otherwise?

There are laws that regulate such things. I think the best way is to absorb the both (BTC and iotas) and follow the court decision if it issues another verdict. This is how the things are done in the real world.
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April 04, 2016, 12:27:51 AM
 #3275

Yes, refunding btc would be better than the current IOTA policy of keeping the bitcoins and absorbing the IOTA. Does anybody think otherwise?

There are laws that regulate such things. I think the best way is to absorb the both (BTC and iotas) and follow the court decision if it issues another verdict. This is how the things are done in the real world.

OK, I had my say, I tried Smiley
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April 04, 2016, 02:07:23 AM
 #3276

Please stop spamming this thread regarding something that has absolutely no relevance. The terms of the sale were clear. We made exception for a few guys that was a few days overdue. The rest is history. This decision was made over 4 months ago.

KennyP your insanely improbably hypothetics are just a distraction and rooted in one thing: "What if this speculator finds out he lost potential profit because of a freak accident?" Well IOTA was never a speculative asset, so zero relevance.

Anyone that bought IOTA and couldn't collect in 3 months can still buy from an exchange, it's not harder than that. Finito.

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April 04, 2016, 06:29:06 AM
 #3277

The line has to be drawn somewhere. Iotatoken and CFB decided 4 months ago where that line should be drawn.

When KennyP said things aren't exactly black and white, he's right.

He makes so great arguments as to where the line should be moved.

There are also good reasons to keep the line in place.

I think the absolute most important thing here is that, once they draw a line it stays. Unless it is in extreme situations, such as regarding security issues with the system, or something at that level of importance, the integrity of Iota leadership must stay bulletproof.

When they draw a line that's it. That is the way it has to be, or we won't make it very far.

This conversation, and another comment upthread got me thinking..

When people made their passwords, they aren't able to double check them.

I would like to see this done if at all possible.

Simply, wait a few days after the GUI comes out, and allow people to check if they can access their address, before all their Iota is sent to them.

If this can't be done for whatever reason, I won't fill up pages on the reasons that support it's importance, just a quick suggestion.

Kind of like when you buy a new safe. You close it with nothing in it first, then make sure you can open it, before you lock your stash in.
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April 04, 2016, 06:37:52 AM
 #3278

When people made their passwords, they aren't able to double check them.

Why not?
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April 04, 2016, 07:13:44 AM
 #3279

The Upon the first launch of wallet you'll get an option part isn't going to be time-sensitive and/or client version dependent, right?  

No. We can't promise to support it forever, but one year should be enough.
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April 04, 2016, 07:17:24 AM
 #3280

Should there be an option? I mean why not automatically transfer iotas from old address to new one after importing the seed?

Is there a reason for anyone to want to use the old address?

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- Excerpt from the IOTA Sacred Texts Vol. I
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