The altcoin topic everyone wants to sweep under the rug

[ArticMine]

...

Great for you that you feel you can hide from modern civilization in Belarus.

Meanwhile most developers (a.k.a. ICO "issuers") and promoters (a.k.a. "broker dealers") live in the G20 and thus will be subject to SEC prosecution due to the announced cooperation of the G20 to go after financial crimes.

Replace SEC with FinCEN and I will agree with you.

Edit: Many ICOs are not securities; however the fact that they are not securities does not make them legal.

[Come-from-Beyond]

@TPTB_need_war, I'm switching into more intense work mode, so I won't have time to reply to your posts. To finish the last unfinished convo: I find your posts about Europe (Belarus particularly) and superiority of USA and its laws too racist and very close to extremism. I think you should be stopped before it's too late, so if I see that this issue progresses I'll report you to your local authorities (not for punishment, but for taking you under a closer control). Your sort of mindset and intolerance can escalate into really destructive behavior. Nothing personal, take care and use your chance for the last word.

[coldmoldy]

What's up with this TPTB guy? It's like he's slowly getting crazier and crazier. What's his IQ again?

[TPTB_need_war]

@TPTB_need_war, I'm switching into more intense work mode, so I won't have time to reply to your posts. To finish the last unfinished convo: I find your posts about Europe (Belarus particularly) and superiority of USA and its laws too racist and very close to extremism. I think you should be stopped before it's too late, so if I see that this issue progresses I'll report you to your local authorities (not for punishment, but for taking you under a closer control). Your sort of mindset and intolerance can escalate into really destructive behavior. Nothing personal, take care and use your chance for the last word.

Some people don't seem to know the definition of 'racisim' and conflate it with 'nationalism' or 'patriotism'. They also seem to lack reading comprehension (at least of the English language). I wrote upthread that the G20 had pledged to coorperate to enforce each others' laws on financial crimes. Someone seems to conflate a mutual respect for each nations' laws as stating the USA is dominating the other members of the G20. If anything, it it the old world banksters from Europe and London such as the Rothschilds who are controlling the USA.

So the ethnic Russian totalitarian developer of IOTA threatens to report me to authorities to attempt to violate my free speech rights.  

Why not just inject me with some plutonium with the tip of an umbrella; would be more efficient.

I hope readers are paying attention to nefarious actors we have here in cryptoland. And to the danger of being murdered or otherwise attacked personally simply for attempting to share the facts on the law that is. And for calling out scams and the criminal mindset of a small subset of the population (apparently a large percentage of which live in countries behind the former Iron Curtain where ostensibly corruption is the norm and is apparently engrained in the culture).

[vuduchyld]

Cross-referencing and wondering why no one wants to rationally discuss this topic?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1218269.0

Mostly because this forum is full of teenagers and irrational people.  Hard to have a rational discussion.

[TPTB_need_war]

Great for you that you feel you can hide from modern civilization in Belarus.

Meanwhile most developers (a.k.a. ICO "issuers") and promoters (a.k.a. "broker dealers") live in the G20 and thus will be subject to SEC prosecution due to the announced cooperation of the G20 to go after financial crimes.

It's not about hiding, it's about having more rights.

PS: The USA anthem with its "the land of the free" always reminds me

So you advocate them selling investment securities in an opaque market without full disclosures and allowing non-accredited investors to buy your very risky stage speculations. But society has decided it is better to have full disclosure and to prevent non-accredited investors from speculating with their lunch money in order to have a better functioning society. Same as society has decided that prosecuting crack dealers is better for society. If you want more rights, then don't task the government with doing what we should do ethically. Otherwise there is no recourse for society other than to hand that regulatory power to the government, which as we know leads to corruption (all power corrupts absolutely).

You can't just say you want more rights, when that means injuring others, because injuring others is not a right.

It has been elaborated in other threads that premines/ICOs/instamines are the antithesis of non-maniluated, permissionless, decentralized systems.

[TPTB_need_war]

There is no concrete evidence that Eduardo DeCastro = iCEBREAKER. I've asked before to people to provide evidence, but like I said, I haven't seen anything concrete yet. Until then, it is a mere allegation.

You are the only fair and balanced Monero Dev I am aware of, so what`s your take on the "concrete evidence" regarding the accusations that Evan has scammed anyone? Do you think he should be on that list?

Those who lost funds to Mt Gox did so on their own volition, including the Mt Gox Terms of Service which I assume had the necessary legal disclaimers about culpability for theft. Does that mean the investors weren't scammed?

Those who invest in a token on their own volition, inherently expect that the market for those tokens is not manipulated by the insiders controlling the float by having a scam scheme to control > 50% of the tokens in existence. Satoshi controls maybe at most 1% of the Bitcoins that will be in existence.

Criminals find clever ways to obscure their crimes such as your Dash accomplice semantic slime quoted above, but that still doesn't make them legal. IANAL but I am reasonably certain that Evan and the unnamed insiders have broken the laws that the SEC and FinCEN are tasked to enforce.

[...]

You can't just say you want more rights, when that means injuring others, because injuring others is not a right.

It has been elaborated in other threads that premines/ICOs/instamines are the antithesis of non-maniluated, permissionless, decentralized systems.

I'm still under the weather unable to digest posts fully, but feel that the OP may need be amended to reflect both sentiments.

I just don't see how pretending to not have committed scams can be tolerated. It would be different if Evan stopped lying about intentionally doing the instamine instead of claiming it was an accident which I have explained is implausible because every lead developer will be monitoring his coin carefully on launch to see the coins are being issued at the correct rate. It doesn't take hours to make that determination. Also dEBRUYNE has provided quotes of Evan as additional evidence that he is lying.

If Evan stopped trying to obscure the fact that he intentionally set up a way to control the float and > 50% of the tokens, then we could say that investors have full disclosure and thus if they are scammed it is on their own FULLY INFORMED volition.

Until Evan makes FULL DISCLOSURE of the truth, then he is scammer. There is no other valid sentiment.

[TPTB_need_war]

I recently answered on another thread:

Anyone who bought Dash on the basis, in whole or part, of misleading statements from Evan or the others and then lost money has been scammed.

Prime among those are the ones to whom the instaminers dumped their coins during the initial pump up to 0.0267, a price which has not be reached again in two years. That not only funded the project, it likely put a long of money straight into insiders' pockets. Subsequent pumps and prices inflated by continued double-talk and spin from Evan and others have only added to their ranks.

But smooth, "We're adults therefore any lies that we accept as true (even if advertised) are the fault of our not researching enough (even if developers are actively telling us otherwise), thus scams are impossible"--said the man before being convicted of securities fraud.

[TPTB_need_war]

As I warned you, the countries will be pushed towards cooperating against financial crime:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-panama-papers

The globalists are destroying the nation-states on purpose and inciting the masses to clamor for a global discipline on malfeasance. I've known for a long time this would be coming. One thing you will learn about me by observing me over time is my ability to predict the future. For example was my 2011 prediction that the nations would not exit the EU and instead would double-down for more sloppy seconds.

[freshman777]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4d7joq/wha_are_people_from_us_so_obsessed_with_laws/

[TPTB_need_war]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4d7joq/wha_are_people_from_us_so_obsessed_with_laws/

Unfortunately the person who wrote that doesn't have the knowledge to understand. Let me explain.

I'd prefer to have no securities regulation law.  In order to not end up with such laws, then we must be able to police our own community. If we can't do that, the public will demand laws.

Laws exist because of a power vacuum. That means that the collective is powerless to stop the hurtful activity, thus someone must step into the vacuum and take control. Thus voila! Government. Laws.

We do it to ourselves because we have criminal mindsets amongst us who prefer to hurt others to get what they want, than to help others to get what they want.

[freshman777]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4d7joq/wha_are_people_from_us_so_obsessed_with_laws/

Unfortunately the person who wrote that doesn't have the knowledge to understand. Let me explain.

I'd prefer to have no securities regulation law.  In order to not end up with such laws, then we must be able to police our own community. If we can't do that, the public will demand laws.

Laws exist because of a power vacuum. That means that the collective is powerless to stop the hurtful activity, thus someone must step into the vacuum and take control. Thus voila! Government. Laws.

We do it to ourselves because we have criminal mindsets amongst us who prefer to hurt others to get what they want, than to help others to get what they want.

You mean to say people from US are enlightened with the wisdom, the rest of the world are dumb? Read his post again.

[TPTB_need_war]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4d7joq/wha_are_people_from_us_so_obsessed_with_laws/

Unfortunately the person who wrote that doesn't have the knowledge to understand. Let me explain.

I'd prefer to have no securities regulation law.  In order to not end up with such laws, then we must be able to police our own community. If we can't do that, the public will demand laws.

Laws exist because of a power vacuum. That means that the collective is powerless to stop the hurtful activity, thus someone must step into the vacuum and take control. Thus voila! Government. Laws.

We do it to ourselves because we have criminal mindsets amongst us who prefer to hurt others to get what they want, than to help others to get what they want.

You mean to say people from US are enlightened with the wisdom, the rest of the world are dumb? Read his post again.

That is not what I wrote. Try again to understand the point about power vacuums.

As to the point about useless laws or conflating law with morality, I will share with you a debate I am having with another Communist criminal mind:

Come on now boys. If you are so sure this is not a scam, then make your sworn disclosures about your involvement in it. Are you afraid of future SEC and FinCEN actions and thus afraid to disclosure. Hmmm.

Stop obfuscating with off topic diversionary tactics.

I am trying to rescue you idiots. But you are determined to dig own pathway to jail.

Wake up and see the light pronto for your own sake.

Thank you for your interest, if genuine. However, to quote Hillary Clinton (since you mentioned the Clintons a lot in some of your posts):

"It’s a stark fact that the United States has less than five percent of the world’s population, yet we have almost 25 percent of the world’s total prison population."

I'm in the 95%+ of the global population (=non US citizen). I'm also unaffected by the prison-mania of the USA, FinCEN, SEC etc. Not that if I were affected I would have something to worry about.

Come-from-Beyond (who is in Belarus) make a similar line of argument to me.

It seems to me that those who grew up in these (former?) Communist states developed a culture of theft, because that was the only way to game the totalitarian system. We all know that Communism is a philosophy of stealing from each other.

And now they blame that on the Americans who worked more diligently and with attention to quality and pride in one's work, than any other nation except perhaps Japan. Globalist leaders insinuate it is okay for your to steal to take back from the evil Americans who took more than their fair share. They urge you to continue the Communist paradigm of ganging up on your neighbor.

I call on American software developers to take the high ground and show the world our cultural heritage and values. Let's teach these Eastern Europeans why America kicks ass with productivity and trying to do the right thing.

Now I will surely agree with you that so many Americans have become dysfunctional Socialists and are milking the reserve currency status. And I will agree with you that American leaders have abused other nations, and in fact Antony Sutton researched and concluded that the banksters from America and Europe installed the Bolshevik revolution. I haven't studied your history enough, so I don't want to make any claim.

I will just try to urge you to please lose that Communist attitude and please work to make the world a better place. We need to not end up in an unethical clusterfuck Dark Age. And take back your right to own a gun because without that, you are nothing against totalitarianism.

The USA is fucked up and it will need to break up into separate regions where those who have shared values can congregate. There are big changes coming to world accelerating as of 2018.

I urge you to look past the tip of your nose and be part of the better future. Let's go make it. I am 51. My time to be highly productive at the top level has peaked; and I am on the tail end of my career. You are young. You make this world. Please think about what you are doing.

Edit: and Evan is an American and thus all the more I demand he not insult the reputation of American developers by operating perhaps the most scammy altcoin by market cap (although some might argue that is Ripple).

As I warned you, the countries will be pushed towards cooperating against financial crime:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-panama-papers

The globalists are destroying the nation-states on purpose and inciting the masses to clamor for a global discipline on malfeasance. I've known for a long time this would be coming. One thing you will learn about me by observing me over time is my ability to predict the future. For example was my 2011 prediction that the nations would not exit the EU and instead would double-down for more sloppy seconds.

For a person with such a breadth of understanding regarding global expansion of totalitarianism, why would you insist on others publicly disclosing stuff like their cryptoholdings, when, tomorrow for example, crypto could be illegal and all such posts might be admissions of possession and thus grounds for confiscation?

Cripes man, did this point completely fly over your head that you are the one who is demanding that everyone disclose everything so we can count and prove all the victims.

I am arguing it should be sufficient to just declare Evan a sleazy scammer who rips off people by designing a scam to control the float and manipulate the price and volume, as well printing press coins out of thin air masternode scheme, handing them to insiders, and dumping them on the market.

Could I ask that you please don't waste my entire day on this redundant shit.

Do you even have any cryptocurrency?

Yes Bitcoin.

Ethics are highly subjective.

That is what someone with no ethics says. Ethics are quite objective. But I don't have time to go off on that tangent with you which you can begin by unconflating morality and ethics. For example, pursuing zero-sum games (where you must take from others in order to gain) is objectively unethical when a non-zero-sum alternative(s) exist. This is why Communism is objectively unethical.

[smooth]

I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones.

[iCEBREAKER]

I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones.

Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one:

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html

or an elevator pitch like these:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg14418341#msg14418341
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7JxaSYfQQ

(Sucks to see Amanda jump the shark so quickly.  Her show could have done better than suffering Certain D000M as The DailyDash.  She could have been a contender.   )

[StinkyLover]

SEC sent out a warning in January 2016. Hope the pumpers are preparing for their jail time:

There is a reason why the SEC issued a warning about Crypto coins calling them scams.. 90% are !
I was doing research early this year when i stumbled onto their press release by accident (same day it was posted)
I then posted it in the Bitcoin section where everyone said it was good news AHAHHAHAHHA
It even mentioned an unnamed forum which was totally obvious they meant Bitcointalk.
Read it yourselves.. https://www.sec.gov/investor/alerts/ia_virtualcurrencies.pdf (Issued Jan 4th 2016)

I get where you're coming from but that link statement doesn't tally with what you've written. That link is talking specifically about Ponzi schemes which involve an individual or group 'personally' taking money from a person or people to pay off previous investors thereby creating a false impression of investment return.

There are bitcoin and crypto-asset investment schemes that I can see that information/warning applying to, but I don't see how cyptocurrencies 'in general' fall into that definition.

Are devs personally taking money off people to pay other people who've invested previously?? That's the only definition of a Ponzi scheme. If that's not happening, then it's not a Ponzi scheme.

I agree there's scammers and thieves in this industry but the law already caters for that.

[noobtrader]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4d7joq/wha_are_people_from_us_so_obsessed_with_laws/

so... why monero dev seem so obsessed with law and regulation   what would happen if law and regulation forbid anonitmity  

[TPTB_need_war]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4d7joq/wha_are_people_from_us_so_obsessed_with_laws/

so... why monero dev seem so obsessed with law and regulation  what would happen if law and regulation forbid anonitmity  

Supporting, not supporting, or merely recognizing an existing specific law, should not be equated with supporting or not supporting all (existing and hypothetical) laws. Who in their sane mind would advocate having no law whatsoever.

Why do you support a law which prevents me from shooting you in the head without any repurcussions   What would happen if law and regulation would forbid you from breathing  

Society has established laws to protect itself from investment scams. We hope society will protect a right to digital transactions privacy (or at least the right to use encryption), but if society decides we must all shoot ourselves in the head, then we'll be in a Dark Age.

(I advise you don't pursue any career which involves applying logic)

[TPTB_need_war]

SEC sent out a warning in January 2016. Hope the pumpers are preparing for their jail time:

Read it yourselves.. https://www.sec.gov/investor/alerts/ia_virtualcurrencies.pdf (Issued Jan 4th 2016)

I get where you're coming from but that link statement doesn't tally with what you've written. That link is talking specifically about Ponzi schemes which involve an individual or group 'personally' taking money from a person or people to pay off previous investors thereby creating a false impression of investment return.

You need to learn to read:

Look Out for Potential Scams
Using Virtual Currency

We are concerned that the rising use of virtual currencies
in the global marketplace may entice fraudsters to lure
investors into Ponzi and other schemes in which these
currencies are used to facilitate fraudulent, or simply
fabricated, investments or transactions

[smooth]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4d7joq/wha_are_people_from_us_so_obsessed_with_laws/

so... why monero dev seem so obsessed with law and regulation   what would happen if law and regulation forbid anonitmity  

Which monero dev do you think is obsessed with law and regulation? If you are referring to the starter of this thread, he's not a monero dev at all. If you mean me, I've made a few (I think 3-4) comments here but I'd hardly call that obsessed. Some awareness of law and regulation is absolutely necessary to understanding the world whether you agree with them or not, as they do exist and affect how people behave.