The altcoin topic everyone wants to sweep under the rug

[TPTB_need_war]

AMP tokens for vaporware

You've got about two more weeks to use that lame retort before people will start calling you a blatant liar.

No adoption and no use case is vaporware.

Any one can write some code and do a testnet demonstration and claim they have created something. GitHub is littered with code that no one uses.

We'll soon see.

IANAL so readers consult your own attorney, but my layman's understanding is they can NEVER fix the fact that they presold ILLEGAL unregistered investment securities to non-accredited USA investors. I implore you to understand the Supreme Court's Howey test. This will haunt this project until the SEC and/or FinCEN comes after them. Greg Meredith is a USA citizen. I really don't have any idea what he is thinking that he thinks he can raise money in this way and not end up in big trouble later.

If they wanted to raise funding to work on Synereo, they could have attempted a crowdfunding or to attract angel/venture private placement investment. But that would require them to have a well vetted business plan or convincing altruistic explanation. Instead they sell technobabble delusion to unwary n00bs and pumpers (same as Ethereum is doing, but at least Ethereum ran away to Switzerland so they think they can avoid USA securities law and still sell to non-accredited USA investors).

Any entity selling an ICO is (intentionally or perhaps cluelessly) corrupt. Period.

I warned you months ago. You have no one to blame but yourself, for not studying and listening more carefully.

Decentralized social networking projects are not novel. The list is littered with failures as you were told already upthread[1].

I don't hate them. I wished them good luck upthread. I am just feeding back frankly the reality.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_software_and_protocols_for_distributed_social_networking

[1714903886]

1714903886

[1714903886]

1714903886

[StinkyLover]

SEC sent out a warning in January 2016. Hope the pumpers are preparing for their jail time:

Read it yourselves.. https://www.sec.gov/investor/alerts/ia_virtualcurrencies.pdf (Issued Jan 4th 2016)

I get where you're coming from but that link statement doesn't tally with what you've written. That link is talking specifically about Ponzi schemes which involve an individual or group 'personally' taking money from a person or people to pay off previous investors thereby creating a false impression of investment return.

You need to learn to read:

Look Out for Potential Scams
Using Virtual Currency

We are concerned that the rising use of virtual currencies
in the global marketplace may entice fraudsters to lure
investors into Ponzi and other schemes in which these
currencies are used to facilitate fraudulent, or simply
fabricated, investments or transactions

Yes but you can clearly see that they are saying "and other schemes in which these currencies are used to facilitate fraudulent, or simply fabricated, investments or transactions".

There is still nowhere that says cryptocurrencies as a whole are fraudulent. The statement is that fraudsters are being enticed to use them for fraudulent purposes. It only talks about the rising use of cryptocurrencies. It no way does it label cryptos as illegal securities or warn users (or devs) that they might be in trouble now, or in the future.

How are you interpreting the statement above to apply to any crypto in existence?

[TPTB_need_war]

Yes but you can clearly see that they are saying "and other schemes in which these currencies are used to facilitate fraudulent, or simply fabricated, investments or transactions".

There is still nowhere that says cryptocurrencies as a whole are fraudulent. The statement is that fraudsters are being enticed to use them for fraudulent purposes. It only talks about the rising use of cryptocurrencies. It no way does it label cryptos as illegal securities or warn users (or devs) that they might be in trouble now, or in the future.

How are you interpreting the statement above to apply to any crypto in existence?

Re-read the entire analysis in this thread.

[TPTB_need_war]

3. Once the issue was recognized, the founder of the coin issued a fix within a few hours to adjust the difficulty more quickly than the algorithm included in the Litecoin code.

Appears they've just incriminated themselves, by admitting they didn't immediately halt the mining by informing the public and declaring a fork with a restart was forthcoming, but instead let the instamine run on for several hours.

4. The only two members of the development team at the time were Evan Duffield and InternetApe. InternetApe sold all his coins early on, and is no longer involved with the project. All other members of the current team joined later. InternetApe was able to accumulate 160K DASH over the first weeks of the project so that should provide an idea of the range a founding member was able to accumulate. So the launch issues and high rewards happened to everyone equally and there was no bad intention, just part of a young hobby project that later became a much more serious project.

How can Evan know that Kyle Hagan sold all his DRK unless Evan was controlling Kyle's mining equipment. Notice how Evan refused to disclose how many DRK he mined. He also doesn't disclose who Kyle sold his DRK to and for what price.

smooth are you not understanding my logic? Everything Evan is writing in that document appears to me to be incriminating. Here is another example:

6. These early mined tokens had no value at the time and many people just traded them OTC or sold them in exchanges very early on. There was no benchmark and no way to know Dash was going to grow and become a bigger project so most first day miners just sold their coins.

How can he know what the first day miners did on OTC unless he was buying all the coins that were sold or was in communication with all the first day miners.

He claiming or admitting that the first day miners were a close knit group.

smooth are you not understanding my logic? Everything Evan is writing in that document appears to me to be incriminating. Here is another example:

Did you see me disagree?

Incriminating or not, at best it is obviously all double-talk, half truths, and speculation presented as fact. That alone is enough to make any sane person want to stay the fuck away.

It is either fact that he could know what he claims to know, in which case they need to disclose all the facts they knew. For example, if they can know what all first miners did, then they must disclose the numbers.

Else it is speculation painted as fact which is a violation of proper disclosure for investment securities.

So either way, it appears to be incriminating w.r.t. securities law in the USA, but note IANAL.

The House of Cards known as XCoin, DarkCoin, DRK, Dash, Dashpay, appears to be nearing its deathstar destiny.

Please don't blame smooth, as he didn't post this here. I am the one quoting it for future SEC/FinCEN investigators and also to alert Dash investors and pumpers of the potential legal and market price implosion implications per the upthread analysis:

More deceptive and misleading statements about the instamine that Dash continues to use to scam investors even now, this time an in "Official Communication".

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/OC/Dash+Instamine+Issue+Clarification

Repeats many of the unsupportable or false claims mentioned in the OP from the old Darkcoin FAQ such as coins being redistributed, the nature of the distribution, and where and how large holders obtained their coins. Omits critical information about key events surrounding the instamine such as the early launch and the deliberate withholding of development plans until after the instamine was complete.

Also mischaracterizes the origin of the instamine coins as being the Litecoin difficulty adjustment algorithm which is absolutely false. Most of the "extra coins" came from the absurdly-high block rewards due to a "bug" (500 coins/block IIRC, roughly 285 times higher than now). If Dash had constant block rewards as did Litecoin (for four years), its instamine would have been very small, as Litecoin's was (in fact even smaller, since the Dash had a difficulty adjustments at 4x the frequency of Litecoin).

[TPTB_need_war]

The damage done by selling unregistered, ostensibly illegal, investment securities to non-accredited (n00b) lunch money speculators:

[...]

I warned you upthread that I don't hate you or Synereo's group, yet you were trying to make me hate you. Well you failed. I pity you, but don't have time for that either.


Edit: what is really sad is that you claim to be ideologically driven for the betterment of mankind, yet you waste precious time on nonsense when in fact I have a good chance of being the one who can help us achieve that. All because of those stupid AMPs. This is the damage that preselling ICOs does. Because you were fooled and made an error and now associate your angst/disappointed/disbelief with me.

[TPTB_need_war]

And unfortunately Indiegogo hasn't replied further and appears to be doing nothing about this. More people have been allowed to contribute to the campaign since I reported the Prohibited Perks to Indiegogo.

Indiegogo is now knowingly facilitating this investment fraud.

So many days have transpired and Indiegogo has not stopped this campaign which continues to receive new contributions which are ostensibly being offered rimbit tokens in exchange:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-better-bitcoin-will-you-wait-till-its-to-late/x/13712033#/funders

The last response I had from Rimbit was dated April 3:

Brian Sunday at 08:19
Hi Shelby,

Thank you for sharing your concern with us. At this time, the campaign is under review to ensure that it adheres to our Terms of Use (http://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms).

So what happens now? We will include the information you have provided along with all other information at our disposal in our review of the campaign. In some cases, we will contact the campaign owner to have them edit their campaign and it will remain on our platform. If the project doesn't follow our rules, we may remove the campaign. We may also restrict the campaign owner's future activities on Indiegogo.

To protect our users' privacy, we're unable to share the action we take. At Indiegogo, we take the trust and safety of our community very seriously, and we greatly appreciate your patience and understanding throughout this review process. To learn more about Indiegogo’s Trust & Safety effort, please visit: www.indiegogo.com/trust

Please note that you do not need to contact us again. Doing so would create a new ticket and prolong the process. Thank you again for taking the time to get in touch with us and for helping to keep Indiegogo a safe and secure platform.

Regards,

Brian
Trust and Safety

[TPTB_need_war]

For those who still think global cooperation isn't coming:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/obama-wants-worldwide-taxes/

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/panama-papers-used-for-political-purposes/

[StinkyLover]

Yes but you can clearly see that they are saying "and other schemes in which these currencies are used to facilitate fraudulent, or simply fabricated, investments or transactions".

There is still nowhere that says cryptocurrencies as a whole are fraudulent. The statement is that fraudsters are being enticed to use them for fraudulent purposes. It only talks about the rising use of cryptocurrencies. It no way does it label cryptos as illegal securities or warn users (or devs) that they might be in trouble now, or in the future.

How are you interpreting the statement above to apply to any crypto in existence?

Re-read the entire analysis in this thread.

I have. It's all speculation, embellishment, supposition and extrapolation. No-one has produced anything 'official from the SEC' or any other governing body that positively confirms that the issuing of a cryptocurrency is a fraudulent act in itself. Investment funds based on cryptos is another matter...

Posting a link to what someone on this site said earlier in another post is NOT an official statement. As you said, it's just personal analysis of the law. It's not an official statement from any governing body.

[TPTB_need_war]

Yes but you can clearly see that they are saying "and other schemes in which these currencies are used to facilitate fraudulent, or simply fabricated, investments or transactions".

There is still nowhere that says cryptocurrencies as a whole are fraudulent. The statement is that fraudsters are being enticed to use them for fraudulent purposes. It only talks about the rising use of cryptocurrencies. It no way does it label cryptos as illegal securities or warn users (or devs) that they might be in trouble now, or in the future.

How are you interpreting the statement above to apply to any crypto in existence?

Re-read the entire analysis in this thread.

I have. It's all speculation, embellishment, supposition and extrapolation. No-one has produced anything 'official from the SEC' or any other governing body that positively confirms that the issuing of a cryptocurrency is a fraudulent act in itself. Investment funds based on cryptos is another matter...

Posting a link to what someone on this site said earlier in another post is NOT an official statement. As you said, it's just personal analysis of the law. It's not an official statement from any governing body.

The Supreme Court was quoted. Try reading the thread again.

[TPTB_need_war]

By running all investment through a funnel which siphons the community wealth through the masternode scam, he is actually killed the network effects.

The instamine means nothing.  Not only were most of those coins sold off, and bought and sold multiple times, it really doesn't matter.

IANAL, yet appears the end game is perhaps jail time for him and perhaps all you pumpers as well who continue to spread illegal prospectus.

...with Dash currently having the upper hand due to superior technology with self governance and funding.

Liar. Illegal hype.

Taoway is that you? you're the guy that first broke the darkcoin scam are you not? Are you the same person? I heard that you are.

You are the one we should all be thankful too for bringing the outright scam to our attention. You probably helped us stop Dash becoming a MUCH larger problem.

Was he bought off to stop attacking? Attack to force Evan to sell you some cheap DRK and in exchange you agree to become a pumper. Not beyond the realm of plausibility. Only they know.

TaoOfSaatoshi deleted this information from his illegal Dash hype thread:

The Tao/Satoshi Index

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

True index is ¹/₆₆₃ = 0.0015

If it is any consolation, Dash's coinmarketcap.com marketcap is closer to its "Adoption-adjusted Market Cap" than Ethereum's and Litecoin's are.

I thus suggest an idea for a new metric for ranking altcoins.

Sqrt(M x H)

M = Mean transactions fees paid per unit time to decentralized proof-of-work miners
H = hash rate (normalized in electricity cost per hash to SHA256).

Using M = Sent avg. per hour, H = Hashrate (normalized):

Coin |	Relative Adoption |	Ratio |	Adoption-adjusted Market Cap
1.Bitcoin	6.5×10¹²	1	$6.4 billion
2.Namecoin	8.6x10¹⁰	1/76	$85 million
3.Ethereum	6.6x10¹⁰	1/99	$65 million
4.Litecoin	1.3x10¹⁰	1/500	$13 million
5.Dash	9.8x10⁹	1/663	$10 million
6.Blackcoin	7.4x10⁸	1/8784	$0.7 million
7.Dogecoin	6.1x10⁸	1/10656	$0.6 million
8.Auroracoin	5.8x10⁶	1/1120690	$5,931

I edited the table above so readers can see the "Adoption-adjusted Market Caps".

You can see how pitiful the altcoins are.

[TPTB_need_war]

warrant canary

Thanks for teaching me that term. I'm thinking a national security gag order can also compel the party to continue to spit out the pronouncements that no legal process has been served, because the gag order supercedes due process?

I have also contemplated that sort of conspiratorial angle, because as you say it doesn't make sense that Evan so blatantly snubs his nose to the numerous regulatory laws that he appears to be violating. Then again, perhaps the authorities don't prosecute these until they reach a certain size    Or maybe he just isn't that smart potentially combined with a criminal mindset that discounts/rationalizes away risk. Or maybe we are all hallucinating and wrong. 

Also I've read from a former SEC prosecutor that the SEC doesn't always do its job, and it more or less used only for hatchet jobs on political enemies or enemies of the State's absolute power.

In another case, appears to me that Indiegogo is violating its own Terms of Service and ostensibly securities law in the case of Rimbit.

[TPTB_need_war]

The [Dash] dev hasn't f*cked off to the Bahamas to enjoy his "takings". He's taken god knows how much personal abuse, character malignment and professional attacks over everything from the launch to his coding.

Which he completely deserves for his ostensibly illegal activities, which btw may take the coin to 0 if FinCEN and/or SEC action begins against him and his accomplice pumpers here in this forum.

He is a disgrace to crypto-currency and is helping to advance the popular idea that crypto-currency is only for nefarious activities. Which is hurting all of us, even those who didn't "invest" in DRK.

Erik Voorhees barely escaped prison by returning all the money.

And you are a disgrace for claiming we are a disgrace for pointing this out.

If this forum can't do something about allowing ostensibly illegal promotion or illegal unregistered investment scams such as the cases Dash and Rimbit which are obvious, then perhaps it is time to replace this forum. I am all for freedom-of-speech, when it is legal.

And of course he hasn't disappeared because the masternode lucrative scam is ongoing. Ditto Rimbit continues to sell more 100% premined tokens on Indiegogo in violation of Indiegogo's Prohibited Perks policy even after Indiegogo acknowledged my message alerting them to this over 2 weeks ago.

WTF has this world turned into a scam paradise where no one respects rudimentary consumer protection laws any more  

Nice to know we're all in the same disgraceful boat.

Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.

These Dash accomplice criminal mindsets promote jurisdictional gaming of common sense law, but they will fail because they are entirely (objectively) unethical:

As I had explained to AlexGR upthread, objective ethics is not playing in zero sum games when a non-zero sum game is available that expands the pie for everyone. I realize he hails from some Communist culture where they had to steal from each other, so he was taught to not have ethics.

I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones.

Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one:

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html

For those who still think global cooperation isn't coming:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/obama-wants-worldwide-taxes/

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/panama-papers-used-for-political-purposes/

[TPTB_need_war]

The points of this thread are apparently making their way around the crypto-currency community:

The Slock.it DAO crowdsale might be cancelled? http://www.smithandcrown.com/slock-it-dao-crowdsale-to-be-unofficial-delays-expected/

I updated it on http://icocountdown.com

Speculation everyone?

Probably they made a good decision of cancelling the crowdsale to avoid legal and regulatory issues that can become very complicated in the future.

[TPTB_need_war]

Charles Hoskinson disclaims the decision of Ethereum to sell vaporware tokens and also to not blacklist USA investors! Wow!

[...]

W.r.t. to WAVES, Charles is ostensibly very wisely making sure he and his company are not associated with the ostensibly illegal selling of unregistered investment securities to USA investors:

Charles Hoskinson disclaims the decision of Ethereum to sell vaporware tokens and also to not blacklist USA investors! Wow!

[...]

I applaud Charles' statements and actions in this thread and in the quoted video.

Disclaimer: IANAL, so make sure you consult your own attorney. My statements are my personal opinions.

question to charles why dont you join

Can't you read between the lines that Charles is distancing himself and his company from the investment securities law implications of ICOs.

He is all for collaboration of the technology. So he won't "join" in the sense of being tied into a promotion of an ICO. He will be amiable with those who want to develop the technology around block chains.

His actions and the way he has stated it is very professional.

Please stop berating Charles.

Can we get some clarity why you were listed on the team page please. Also I appreciate the answers.

This is why I got so angry. There is no formal relationship. Waves should have not listed Alex as a team member. Alex nor I were consulted in this decision. Using someone's name or work to raise millions of dollars is a serious concern and should not be taken lightly.

Scorex isn't designed to be a full and secure cryptocurrency. It's a great platform for rapid experimentation, which is badly needed in academia and industry. In fact in the announcement of scorex, there was some text criticizing ICOs. It's one of the reasons I loved the project when I found it last year.

This is not a debate about open source. Not once has anyone said scorex cannot be used. It's an argument about iohk personnel being represented as employees or partners of another Venture for the purpose of raising millions of dollars. It is something that I cannot permit. I asked privately for it to stop and then had to escalate after the waves project continued to imply via proxies a relationship.

I assume it will stop now so I wish the project well and the best of luck.

[TPTB_need_war]

Putin signs Ponzi criminalization Bill: where's Sergey?

Up till now, Russia had a pretty laissez faire towards Ponzi and pyramid schemes, but a new law just introduced makes running one a criminal offence in itself for the first time.
Maybe not entirely unconnected with the disappearance of Russian Ponzi Superstar Sergey Mavrodi and the abrupt shutdown of MMMGlobal "Republic of Bitcoin", which was mainly administered out of Russia.

http://www.rapsinews.com/legislation_news/20160330/275727532.html

[Come-from-Beyond]

You forgot to quote this:

Can't you read between the lines that Charles is distancing himself and his company from the investment securities law implications of ICOs.

Man, you should stop explaining everything as an attempt to stay away of SEC ruling. Your posts are not only racist (because imply superiority of the USA) but are also plain annoying because were repeated too many times.

In this very case Charles explained his intentions pretty clear, no need to create conspiracy theories.

[TPTB_need_war]

You forgot to quote this:

Can't you read between the lines that Charles is distancing himself and his company from the investment securities law implications of ICOs.

Man, you should stop explaining everything as an attempt to stay away of SEC ruling. Your posts are not only racist (because imply superiority of the USA) but are also plain annoying because were repeated too many times.

In this very case Charles explained his intentions pretty clear, no need to create conspiracy theories.

Nice try to divert attention away from your money grabbing scams:

is the only thing missing to pump the new Waves IPO to the moon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG_XiOdbum8#t=57s

Successful IPO launch ingredients:

1. Prominent Eastern European dev

"check"

[...]

[Come-from-Beyond]

Nice try to divert attention away from your money grabbing scams:

is the only thing missing to pump the new Waves IPO to the moon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG_XiOdbum8#t=57s

Successful IPO launch ingredients:

1. Prominent Eastern European dev

"check"

[...]

To make it clear:

You didn't have counter-arguments so you posted another racist post, right?

PS: BTW, why "your"? You think that I'm involved in Waves or it's just all that you can do - completely made-up ad hominems?

[TPTB_need_war]

You didn't have counter-arguments so you posted another racist post, right?

We already had this discussion in the past. Cultures which harbor people who disrespect G20 norms on investment securities law are harboring scammers in my view and also apparently in the opinion of the person I quoted. This has nothing to do with race.

Keep building your strawman legal case.  

You are on Ignore and are not coming off of it ever again. So don't expect replies.

[Come-from-Beyond]

You didn't have counter-arguments so you posted another racist post, right?

We already had this discussion in the past. Cultures which harbor people who disrespect G20 norms on investment securities law are harboring scammers in my view and also apparently in the opinion of the person I quoted. This has nothing to do with race.

Keep building your strawman legal case.  

You are on Ignore and are not coming off of it ever again. So don't expect replies.

Well, guys, nothing to see here anymore. It's a clinical case, poor TPTB has gone into the total denial.