rumors of 3.5Th antminer S7 "lite"

[philipma1957]

It may be a good unit for underclock & undervolt.  it says 11.6 to 13.0 volts   they may have altered the  voltage regulation like they did with the later s-5's

[RichBC]

Still a big mystery to me as to what is going on with Batch 6? Yes the number of chips is clear at 135 but that has to mean that the chain length has been reduced from 18 to 15 chips. So shorter chain has to mean increased core voltage, which does make sense given the batches we have seen with a reduced Default frequency and the original very tight PSU spec.

However as I have detailed above the resultant 0.8V per chip just does not tie in with the BM1385 Data sheet, and as we all know increased Core Voltage = lower efficiency, and yet they are still quoting an unchanged 0.25J/GH.

So either the BM1385 Data Sheet is wrong, the efficiency has reduced relative to the earlier Batches, there is a significant change to the Hash Board design, or something else I have not thought of?  

Just noticed there is a subtle change to the efficiency spec.

Batch 1 - Power Efficiency: 0.25 J/GH (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)
Batch 6 - Power Efficiency: 0.25 J/GH + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)

However +10% would still only max it 0.275% and on my maths it's over 0.3J/GH



Rich

[Amph]

Mr. Lees info was right on leak:

https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020151105082702881F8f0B9I405FF

Price:       4 BTC
               ( 1481.32 USD )

1. Hash Rate: 4.05 TH/s

2. Power Consumption: 1042 W + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25C ambient temp)

3. Power Efficiency: 0.25 J/GH + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)

ah not what i was expecting sincerely, this is still too akin to the s7 as a power concern, but it seems that it cost much less, the s7 is still priced 7 btc with only 1/5 more of the hash

this can do roi in 4 months with free electricity and falt diff, with my bad electricity and a flat diff, i cna roi in 7 months without selling it before, mmh i'm a bit tempted

[notlist3d]

Mr. Lees info was right on leak:

https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020151105082702881F8f0B9I405FF

Price:       4 BTC
               ( 1481.32 USD )

1. Hash Rate: 4.05 TH/s

2. Power Consumption: 1042 W + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25C ambient temp)

3. Power Efficiency: 0.25 J/GH + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)

ah not what i was expecting sincerely, this is still too akin to the s7 as a power concern, but it seems that it cost much less, the s7 is still priced 7 btc with only 1/5 more of the hash

this can do roi in 4 months with free electricity and falt diff, with my bad electricity and a flat diff, i cna roi in 7 months without selling it before, mmh i'm a bit tempted

The day when we had 500 BTC and high 400's people got a bargain on better S7's then this and for cheaper.  Now it's a fixed 4 btc price so it does not happen again.

I think they should have went to 2 blade if going to downgrade it.  They kept the design with 10 PCIe for less hash... i was not thinking they would do that.

[RichBC]

Mr. Lees info was right on leak:

https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020151105082702881F8f0B9I405FF

Price:       4 BTC
               ( 1481.32 USD )

1. Hash Rate: 4.05 TH/s

2. Power Consumption: 1042 W + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25C ambient temp)

3. Power Efficiency: 0.25 J/GH + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)

ah not what i was expecting sincerely, this is still too akin to the s7 as a power concern, but it seems that it cost much less, the s7 is still priced 7 btc with only 1/5 more of the hash

this can do roi in 4 months with free electricity and falt diff, with my bad electricity and a flat diff, i cna roi in 7 months without selling it before, mmh i'm a bit tempted

The day when we had 500 BTC and high 400's people got a bargain on better S7's then this and for cheaper.  Now it's a fixed 4 btc price so it does not happen again.

I think they should have went to 2 blade if going to downgrade it.  They kept the design with 10 PCIe for less hash... i was not thinking they would do that.

Yes very disappointed that they did not go along with our  2 Board design. I cannot afford do not want to spend this much money on a miner, but would like to move to S7 / BM1385 efficiency as even at the current BTC price ny S5's will not be profitable after the halving.

I do agree  with Phil

It may be a good unit for underclock & undervolt.  it says 11.6 to 13.0 volts   they may have altered the  voltage regulation like they did with the later s-5's

and think that relative to the earlier batches of S7, which are a bit on the edge for Voltage & Frequency, this one will offer more scope for Under & Over Volting & Frequency.

Rich

[QuintLeo]

this can do roi in 4 months with free electricity and falt diff

 If you mean "falling diff", that isn't going to happen. Ditto "flat diff".

 Don't forget you don't GET the thing 'till sometime in December.

 My standard calc shows this thing has no more chance at RoI with anything but VERY cheap electric than the 4.66 or 4.86 batches did - they did NOT drop the price enough to account for the lower TH and the LONG DELAY IN SHIPPING.



 The only advantage to this unit is that the higher volts/chip should let it overclock and be more reliable on meeting it's specs - at the cost of efficiency (I do NOT believe that 0.25w/GH spec, but had to use it for my calc as it was what was available).

[notlist3d]

My biggest fear is to see something like S5 with two blade in a plastic sided no full case device.

I will LOL so badly!

Any point for this miner will be to be quiet! other wise.... i don't really care

I was expecting it to be quite different. Thought dual module and big change.  With new S7 change it is not near as big of change as I thought.

Lose hashpower and still have 10 PCIe ports needed.   I think it was a bad move.

[RichBC]

OK so stepping back from the detail of Batch 6, how about this for a bit of speculation as to what is going on at Bitmain as regards the S7? I still strongly feel that this is not a "New or Lite" Miner it is a Design Correction.

So in a very short period of time we have seen 4 different versions / selections of the S7. We have had batches at 4.86TH, 4.66TH and some people have even had shipments at 4.45TH. Now we have a revised design with less chips at 4.05TH.

You don't plan things to go like this  and clearly they have been having real problems with achieving the original spec. There is evidence, with the stickers on the Boards, that they have been speed selecting and it may even be that they are doing the same with the BM1385 and at the System level?

However you just can't carry on doing this in a volume manufacturing environment so I think that "Management" said that's enough, change the design and get us out of this mess.

So my guess is that the chip reduced 4.05TH S7 is very new and may only exist on paper at this point in time. However "Marketing" wanted a Batch for Sale, so the Engineers get pressed into a specification and that is why the numbers just do not add up. The error on the chip count, the very strange quoting of Power Efficiency as 0.25 J/GH + 10% etc. I do not think we have seen the final spec yet and that will come when they make some measurements?

Where they have been lucky is that the comptition, or rather lack of competition, has given them a Free Ride, leaving them as the only Game in Town with this class of Miner, allowing them to get away with this mess while selling the Miners for a premium price.


Rich

[carlosmnk]

OK so stepping back from the detail of Batch 6, how about this for a bit of speculation as to what is going on at Bitmain as regards the S7? I still strongly feel that this is not a "New or Lite" Miner it is a Design Correction.

So in a very short period of time we have seen 4 different versions / selections of the S7. We have had batches at 4.86TH, 4.66TH and some people have even had shipments at 4.45TH. Now we have a revised design with less chips at 4.05TH.

You don't plan things to go like this  and clearly they have been having real problems with achieving the original spec. There is evidence, with the stickers on the Boards, that they have been speed selecting and it may even be that they are doing the same with the BM1385 and at the System level?

However you just can't carry on doing this in a volume manufacturing environment so I think that "Management" said that's enough, change the design and get us out of this mess.

So my guess is that the chip reduced 4.05TH S7 is very new and may only exist on paper at this point in time. However "Marketing" wanted a Batch for Sale, so the Engineers get pressed into a specification and that is why the numbers just do not add up. The error on the chip count, the very strange quoting of Power Efficiency as 0.25 J/GH + 10% etc. I do not think we have seen the final spec yet and that will come when they make some measurements?

Where they have been lucky is that the comptition, or rather lack of competition, has given them a Free Ride, leaving them as the only Game in Town with this class of Miner, allowing them to get away with this mess while selling the Miners for a premium price.


Rich

I agree you.

[64dimensions]

I think this version could be some sort of sop to the 120V home market. The typical US 120V, 15 amp outlet can handle 12 amps max continuously. With a little tuning plus a decent power supply, this version can be a one electrical outlet/branch circuit miner.

[VirosaGITS]

I think this version could be some sort of sop to the 120V home market. The typical US 120V, 15 amp outlet can handle 12 amps max continuously. With a little tuning plus a decent power supply, this version can be a one electrical outlet/branch circuit miner.

Not really, the First format on the S7 almost was, since 1200watts is close to the 12A 110V limit. Meanwhile 1000watts on the 1440watts 80% safety margin on 120V is kind of awkward. Got to find something else to do with the 400watts.

The S4 is the one that was really fittingd as a one miner, one circuit miner 120v wise, the PSU is even rated to exactly 1440watts.

[64dimensions]

I think this version could be some sort of sop to the 120V home market. The typical US 120V, 15 amp outlet can handle 12 amps max continuously. With a little tuning plus a decent power supply, this version can be a one electrical outlet/branch circuit miner.

Not really, the First format on the S7 almost was, since 1200watts is close to the 12A 110V limit. Meanwhile 1000watts on the 1440watts 80% safety margin on 120V is kind of awkward. Got to find something else to do with the 400watts.

The S4 is the one that was really fitting as a one miner, one circuit miner 120v wise, the PSU is even rated to exactly 1440watts.

Actually it's more involved. Assuming the minimum code for the US home electrical 120V circuit (14 gauge 60C copper wire)

1) The B2 specs are 0.25 J/Ghz, 4.66 (+/- 5%)

2) Ideally for ROI purposes, a single power supply is better, especially since the S7 control board has it's own PCI connector. So we are looking at some 1300W unit with 10 PCI connectors.

3) Spec power budget: 1165 watts (4660 x 0.25) + 120 watts (power supply) + 36 watts (wire loss: 14 gauge, 50 ft run, 12 amps) = 1320 watts. So there is some margin.

Unfortunately there are miners that don't meet the specs for efficiency and hash rate. So if you get an S7 that is operating at 0.275 J/Ghz, the total power draw is 1437 watts, the residential limit.

[Biodom]

My biggest fear is to see something like S5 with two blade in a plastic sided no full case device.

I will LOL so badly!

Any point for this miner will be to be quiet! other wise.... i don't really care

I was expecting it to be quite different. Thought dual module and big change.  With new S7 change it is not near as big of change as I thought.

Lose hashpower and still have 10 PCIe ports needed.   I think it was a bad move.

10 ports needed for just 1045W is pretty much ignorable bs.

So if you get an S7 that is operating at 0.275 J/Ghz, the total power draw is 1437 watts, the residential limit.

not sure...B1, B2, B4 are 1210w; B3 and B5 are 1160W; B6-1045+maybe 10%=1150W
I am not aware of any B1-B5 that required 1437w.

[notlist3d]

My biggest fear is to see something like S5 with two blade in a plastic sided no full case device.

I will LOL so badly!

Any point for this miner will be to be quiet! other wise.... i don't really care

I was expecting it to be quite different. Thought dual module and big change.  With new S7 change it is not near as big of change as I thought.

Lose hashpower and still have 10 PCIe ports needed.   I think it was a bad move.

10 ports needed for just 1045W is pretty much ignorable bs.

So if you get an S7 that is operating at 0.275 J/Ghz, the total power draw is 1437 watts, the residential limit.

not sure...B1, B2, B4 are 1210w; B3 and B5 are 1160W; B6-1045+maybe 10%=1150W
I am not aware of any B1-B5 that required 1437w.

I would agree on the 10 ports for around 1k watts... they should have done a bigger redesign I think 2 blades and much less PCIe for what they were doing.   If they want you to use 10 PCIE ports it should have much more power in my mind.

But if you don't use 10 recommended it ruins the warranty.  So they really push it to being used.

[QuintLeo]

1437 watts on a standard US 15 Amp circuit is OK.
NEC specs are quite conservative, it's perfectly reasonable to expect 100% power draw to be safe, though less is a little safer....

 "12Amp" limit is excessive for a standard residential outlet on a standard 15 amp circuit.


 What I don't understand is why BitMain went to as much of an extreme on their "S7 correction" design, IMO they should have dropped to 16/string not 15 and kept the efficiency higher while kicking the reliability up to something decent.

 I also don't understand why they didn't go to 2 ports/board, unless they are deliberately leaving LOTS of space for large overclocking.

[RichBC]

1437 watts on a standard US 15 Amp circuit is OK.
NEC specs are quite conservative, it's perfectly reasonable to expect 100% power draw to be safe, though less is a little safer....

 "12Amp" limit is excessive for a standard residential outlet on a standard 15 amp circuit.


 What I don't understand is why BitMain went to as much of an extreme on their "S7 correction" design, IMO they should have dropped to 16/string not 15 and kept the efficiency higher while kicking the reliability up to something decent.

 I also don't understand why they didn't go to 2 ports/board, unless they are deliberately leaving LOTS of space for large overclocking.

There are a lot of unanswered questions, and until we actually see a batch 6 they will remain so.

As I put in my earlier post. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219211.msg12911092#msg12911092

My money still on Bitmain not having a batch 6 yet and that it only exists on paper? The pictures still show the 4.86TH device. Batch 6 could be a major relayout of the board or they may just have "fudged" it to remove 3 Nodes & 9 Chips per board?


Rich

[fr4nkthetank]

Get your shit together bitmain.  Also put out a miner with very low sound level, like the s3 for example.  people will buy it even if its less efficient and more expensive

[notlist3d]

Get your shit together bitmain.  Also put out a miner with very low sound level, like the s3 for example.  people will buy it even if its less efficient and more expensive

I think the day's of the small miners are in the past.  Like it or not the redesign showed even when they go smaller it's still a big machine.   I do not think the home miner day's will quite be the same as the past.

I think it's going to move to what I call "hobby miners" with areas and proper wiring, cooling, etc.  Sure some will be able to put in and about max out a circuit but really designing for home day's is over.

[dog1965]

Get your shit together bitmain.  Also put out a miner with very low sound level, like the s3 for example.  people will buy it even if its less efficient and more expensive

I think the day's of the small miners are in the past.  Like it or not the redesign showed even when they go smaller it's still a big machine.   I do not think the home miner day's will quite be the same as the past.

I think it's going to move to what I call "hobby miners" with areas and proper wiring, cooling, etc.  Sure some will be able to put in and about max out a circuit but really designing for home day's is over.

you never know with these smaller low power nanometer low power chips.

[notlist3d]

Get your shit together bitmain.  Also put out a miner with very low sound level, like the s3 for example.  people will buy it even if its less efficient and more expensive

I think the day's of the small miners are in the past.  Like it or not the redesign showed even when they go smaller it's still a big machine.   I do not think the home miner day's will quite be the same as the past.

I think it's going to move to what I call "hobby miners" with areas and proper wiring, cooling, etc.  Sure some will be able to put in and about max out a circuit but really designing for home day's is over.

you never know with these smaller low power nanometer low power chips.

I'm not sure about that.  Look at all the hardware being sold right now and see how most are going twords more you can fit in the box of speed, the better.

Find one that shows lower even at lower NM.  I mean B-12 I think it is could be the first consumer lower NM.  And all their terrahash look big as well.  So I would not count on S3 type miners.