Recent Events At Bitcoin Market

[Brainslug]

"get money into mtgox"?! Why MtGox?! 
Can wire to Btcex, btcmarket eu among others... but the issue isn't "me", but the newcomers. «Hey! Want some BTC? Great! Do a «fricking complicated or ultra-fee-expensive thing unless you live in the US» to get it.»

That pretty much sums it up.

[yxejamir]

Seen on BCM homepage:

2011-6-7 BMBTC/PPUSD Update

We were able to seize about 5 BTC from the fraudulent accounts. This is roughly equivalent to the sum of the transaction fees charged on these trades. Therefore, we've decided to issue transaction fee refunds on all fraudulent transactions. We realize this is a small compensation, but it is the fairest form of distribution that we can imagine. Members should see the deposit in their account in the next couple of days.

Thought you would like to know.

[seer]

An idea to make paypal safer.

1. clear all paypal email addresses in the database on BCM.
2. To add a paypal address an email confirmation with a generated code is sent to your paypal email address. This includes terms stating that you agree sales are final once coins are released from escrow.
3. The user must enter the code in BCM to activate the paypal email address as well as again agree to the terms of no charge backs and that sales are final once coins released from escrow.
4. To buy coins via paypal any offer you make will result in an email been sent to your paypal email address with a generated code.  Again T&C's are stated and until you enter the code in on BCM the offer is no entered into the system.
5. In the transaction history all the information aabove and the time and date the seller agreed and what they agreed to is shown so that the seller can use it to argue with paypal.

It may not win the case with paypal but if the other person has control of the paypal email and the paypal account and agreed to the terms the chances are they are that person and they have agreed that the escrow history does show the real delivery of the item.  IF you have the other person agreements it should be a reasonable case with paypal.

What do you think guys?

[BCEmporium]

Actually MoneyBookers is already there and can be a good replacement. For those having problems uploading funds, don't forget to check for the "Gaming selector" and set it to "Non-Gaming". MB have that issue of default to "Gaming enabled" which on many cases makes VISA to refuse the payment.

[speeder]

Actually MoneyBookers is already there and can be a good replacement. For those having problems uploading funds, don't forget to check for the "Gaming selector" and set it to "Non-Gaming". MB have that issue of default to "Gaming enabled" which on many cases makes VISA to refuse the payment.

Too bad seemly it is not available on my country at all, so, or I use PayPal, or... I use PayPal

[kakobrekla]

How about MBEUR?

[thisisquitealongname]

Interesting. I bought a few btc off 6038 for LR. It went fine. He even cut me a deal on one because my account was a bit short.

[Bind]

There is only one person to blame for anyone getting ripped off via paypal transactions at bitcoinmarket.

That is the person who owns bitcoinmarket for convincing you to break paypals terms of service agreement.

I think any first year law student could convince a judge and jury of the same.

The person who runs bitcoinmarket allowed it for one reason. To make money off you then close the accounts and take the bitcoins left in those account of anyone paypal reversed charges on, then of course state that all he could reimburse back were transaction fees.

Then he says the users are fraudulent and blames paypal for following their own terms of service.

Please people, try and use your brains.

He took a chance, convinced you to take a chance, blames everyone else, then cashes in on you.

[fassadlr]

I would love a reply from Dustin Dollar on the above!

[trackpantsboner]

Bind you are a negative, suspicious git. The owner of bitcoinmarket never once tried to convince anyone to use paypal or break their terms of service, he put paypal up as an option and it was a very valuable option for many of us. You have no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that it was conniving on the part of bitcoinmarket. Of course bcm made money from the transactions, thats how society operates, you provide a service and you get paid for it. You obviously dont run a business like a lot of us here on this forum do.

[rhino]

Bind you are a negative, suspicious git. The owner of bitcoinmarket never once tried to convince anyone to use paypal or break their terms of service, he put paypal up as an option and it was a very valuable option for many of us. You have no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that it was conniving on the part of bitcoinmarket. Of course bcm made money from the transactions, thats how society operates, you provide a service and you get paid for it. You obviously dont run a business like a lot of us here on this forum do.

+1 from me.  I have nothing but praise for all Dustin has done and what I've experienced with all my various dealings with him.

Take this offline if you must, let's get back to the issues at hand: can this be made to work, and officially, what is Paypal's issue with it?  I presently have some open cases with Paypal's large business engagement ghosts trying to find answers to these very things.  So far they have been useless, but I'm persisting.

[Cdecker]

Yup, got scammed by b4rrydoyle (5184) too. It's just 20 BTC but still... Hopefully dwdollar can publish the payout address for those scammers so we can start collecting all addresses they're using and start to track them.

[digdugg67]

Bind you are a negative, suspicious git. The owner of bitcoinmarket never once tried to convince anyone to use paypal or break their terms of service, he put paypal up as an option and it was a very valuable option for many of us. You have no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that it was conniving on the part of bitcoinmarket. Of course bcm made money from the transactions, thats how society operates, you provide a service and you get paid for it. You obviously dont run a business like a lot of us here on this forum do.

+1

It's not Dustin
it's not even paypal.
It's a few bad actors.
What it comes down to is that there were scammers using paypal and their TOS to their advantage by stating that they never authorized the transaction or some other claim and PP sides with the buyer.
I used PP on BCM, I bought some coins from numerous sellers.

The only nefarious stuff going on is with the PP buyers and/or their accounts.

[bitcoinTrader]

Bind you are a negative, suspicious git. The owner of bitcoinmarket never once tried to convince anyone to use paypal or break their terms of service, he put paypal up as an option and it was a very valuable option for many of us. You have no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that it was conniving on the part of bitcoinmarket. Of course bcm made money from the transactions, thats how society operates, you provide a service and you get paid for it. You obviously dont run a business like a lot of us here on this forum do.

+1

It's not Dustin
it's not even paypal.
It's a few bad actors.
What it comes down to is that there were scammers using paypal and their TOS to their advantage by stating that they never authorized the transaction or some other claim and PP sides with the buyer.
I used PP on BCM, I bought some coins from numerous sellers.

The only nefarious stuff going on is with the PP buyers and/or their accounts.

Paypal does play its part...My account has been permanently limited..

[digdugg67]

.....
Paypal does play its part...My account has been permanently limited..

Ok, I'll give you that but had the buyer been on the up and up. PP probably would not have been an issue.

I hope this was not a business PP account.

PP just needs to figure out that BitCoin is coming and either they are going to play or they are going to have to get out of the way.

[bitcoinTrader]

.....
Paypal does play its part...My account has been permanently limited..

Ok, I'll give you that but had the buyer been on the up and up. PP probably would not have been an issue.

I hope this was not a business PP account.

PP just needs to figure out that BitCoin is coming and either they are going to play or they are going to have to get out of the way.

Not business account...
I did not have any dispute/chargeback.. still my account has been limited permanently!  

[dwdollar]

I won't waste my time with trolls, but I know there were new people who didn't fully understand the risks involved.  I'm sorry about that.  I will make it very explicit if I continue with PayPal.  The whole point of having multiple currency pairs is to allow the market to determine the inherent risk involved with each one.

Here are the withdrawing addresses:

5806 - Never withdrew (siphoned through trades)

5810 - 17tvqFtxmqEk1dHkp1SPZ1xhqVJytgqfQf

5184 - 12JuxerBKaZqj1Byyxfi1a5uSPiT3Ueso3

6038 - 1Ez9Ey6D2ubgroSirbMHx8gGhqeZdjqg31

[Bind]

The owner ... put paypal up as an option and it was a very valuable option for many of us.

and its against paypal terms of service ... it should never had been an option suggested by bitcoinmarket to begin with knowing they would terminate sales ... additionally bitcoinmarket never stated using paypal was against there tos when he knew full well it was agains the payal tos, which is why bitcoinmarket specifically chose not to perform those transactions itself, while never advising their clients they were suggesting it to that it was indeed against the paypal tos ... I believe bitcoinmarket holds a fiduciary responsibility and liability here.

what is Paypal's issue with it?  I presently have some open cases with Paypal's large business engagement ghosts trying to find answers to these very things.  So far they have been useless, but I'm persisting.

We can speculate until the cows come home, but the fact remains its against the tos. If people did not know it was against the tos we must ask whos fault it is then. The user who lost because they did not read the tos daily, or the one who suggested its use ? Or the ones who knew but went ahead anyway and took a chance. You wont win a paypal dispute concerning bitcoins. Its automatic refund.

Yup, got scammed by b4rrydoyle (5184) too. It's just 20 BTC but still... Hopefully dwdollar can publish the payout address for those scammers so we can start collecting all addresses they're using and start to track them.

How are you going to prove you got scammed and didnt receieve the funds without someone "trusting you" and your word without any official confirmation from paypal? Alterable text or screen shots? Your good word

I know there were new people who didn't fully understand the risks involved.  I'm sorry about that.  I will make it very explicit if I continue with PayPal.  

Thank you for admitting you liability and responsibility by your failure to advise your members that the conduit for exchange you suggest by placing on your site is 100% untrustable, just so you can make a profit.



... yet he is not taking the moral and ethical high road and proper reputable business strategy by refunding your money or bitcoins ...

He might as well be saying, "... sorry folks I caused you to get ripped off, but oh well thats the breaks ..."

My oh my - what a wonderful way to run a business and add reputation to the BitCoin system. /sarcasm

Until he does start acting like a real reputable business and refunds peoples losses caused by him, please avoid dwdollar and BitCoinMarket at all costs. He doesnt care about you or the BitCoin System ... he cares only about the BitCoins and cash he can skim off of you. Please use a reputable exchange.

[speeder]

Bind, some things you do not understand.


And if BCM resumes PP support, I will resume using it. I have no other option.

[Bind]

Bind, some things you do not understand.


And if BCM resumes PP support, I will resume using it. I have no other option.

I understand completely.

If you choose those risks that is one thing.

But if you do it without knowledge of that risk at BitCoinMarket's suggestion, then its quite another.