Should BFL get a scammer tag?

[tacotime]

Statements from BFL Josh/Inaba/BFL themselves

So will the BitForce SC product line REALLY come out in October? This is a fair question.  Let's review our track record.  If you're not aware, our initial product, the BitForce Single had a slow delivery cycle.  This was initially due to a last minute design change before initial product release.  When we did release it, we weren't quite prepared for the explosive success we had.  After several rounds of scaling, single delivery is in sufficient volume to catch up quickly. The Mini Rig product release has followed it's development and release timeline pretty well.  Initial deliveries aren't far from estimates and the speed of production is on pace to ensure most customers will get their Mini Rigs ahead of schedule. The SC product line has been under development for quite some time and is not the result of an expedited development process.  Although there are always issues during development, our team is highly experienced in exactly this field and we're currently ahead of our original timeline.  Honest Abe, we're scheduling shipments for October of 2012.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/

So, we've got he myriad distributors shipping thousands of little pieces to us, the PCB manufacturer sending us the bare PCBs, the HSF manufacturer sending the HSFs to us, the PSU manufacturer sending the PSU's to us, the case manufacturer sending the cases to us and most importantly, the fab sending the ASIC chips to us. All of these must arrive on time and as expected for everything to go off without a hitch. So far, so good.

October 10, 2012
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/104-Shipping-in-2-3-weeks?p=1461&viewfull=1#post1461

We wanted to cover the bases with the Bitcoin Mag article, so we pushed the shipment date out.

With regards to an updated shipping schedule, we are waiting on some information with regards to the bulk shipment of our ASIC chips. Once we get a confirmed date on the bulk shipment, I will have a pretty solid idea of exactly when we will start shipping, but until I have a more exact date with regards to the chips, I can't give a better estimate. Once we have the chips in hand it will take a couple days to get them pushed through our pick and place house and then ready to be shipped out. Chances are, either I or someone else from BFL will be going in person to be sure each step is executed as quickly as possible and to handle any unexpected contingencies that might crop up.

At this point, though, I very seriously doubt we'll make the end of October. How far into November that is pushed I should know sometime soon (this week, I hope).

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/188-Information-from-Bitcoin-Magazine?p=2636&viewfull=1#post2636

I would like to know what one or two individuals (in the US preferably, unless the non-US person wants to pony up a ticket) that Bitcoin Talk community would nominate and accept as credible, verifiable individuals to be flown here to KC sometime around the end of October/Beginning of November time frame to see our facility, inspect the manufacturing equipment and test out the devices.  We don't have an exact date yet as to when we would do this, but I would like to get the ball rolling as far as names in the hat and see if there's even a vague consensus on who the individual(s) might be.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112543.0

See further in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112700.msg1297999#msg1297999

Come on guys... if this was ANYONE else except for BFL they would have had scammer tags already!  The community has given them hundreds of thousands of their dollars, waited month upon month, and has not seen a word of honest discourse from them about the state of their products.

If you're waiting on something, why not tell us?  Why not tell us what it is?  Why not at least provide process details for your ASIC like Avalon?  Ridiculous.

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[bitcoindaddy]

Maybe I'm not getting upset because I've been through this before with the FPGA's. Just keep mining with your video cards and try to enjoy the holidays.

[e21]

Maybe I'm not getting upset because I've been through this before with the FPGA's. Just keep mining with your video cards and try to enjoy the holidays.

Seriously. Thanks for another wonderfully useless BFL thread OP!

[firefop]

Maybe I'm not getting upset because I've been through this before with the FPGA's. Just keep mining with your video cards and try to enjoy the holidays.

Maybe I'm not getting upset because my existing GPU/FPGA farm is making decent money for me already... Also I got bought BTC8.5 worth of pies from a local farmer yesterday... gonna be a grand thanksgiving day.
 

On the other hand, those of us who've dealt with BFL before... were expecting these sort of delays... as should anyone who's ever worked for a small business...

When someone asked me when ASICs were coming out (about 6 months ago) I said well BFL says oct. but it probably won't be until march. I stand by that statement, as it was made then.

With more competition (Just wait Tom's gonna release on time). . . it's becoming more important that BFL get product out the door before Jan. But I wouldn't count on it.

[Frizz23]

Come on guys... if this was ANYONE else except for BFL they would have had scammer tags already!

+1

Collection of shitloads of money: tick
Delivery in October: fail
Delivery in November: fail
Release of specifications (at least some basic stuff like manufacturing process): fail
Working Prototype: fail
Community representative (Yochdog) visiting BFL premises: fail

[tacotime]

Here we can watch Inaba troll his own customer base!  What a guy!

Why don't you just shut up and deliver?

That's all we want from you/BFL.

Because you wouldn't have anything to bitch about then.  It's all about you, Frizz.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112700.msg1350101#msg1350101

[MooC Tals]

Well I'm going to cancel January 1st My order number is in the 10,000's early October. I don't have any mining equipment.

Some have suggested I sell my units order positions and frankly I have no idea on doing that. I see the difficulty increasing daily and the reward dropping.

Yea I'm bitching but I'm bored and out a little under a grand so I guess I have a little standing here. I would liked to have known a head of time that I would be waiting till March. I thought if they start shipping November and I ordered in October I should expect DEC or Jan.

However to tell us October then recant it and say November now I see them saying late January. I hate being dicked around.

I'm not a fan of this.

BFL Jan 1 = Cancel

Flame away

"By the end of January assuming no snags or anything." -quote BFL JOSH
link below
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/393-orders.html#post5587



1 single little SC and a Jala fresh sale
10/10/2012   10706   N   0   1   0   0   -   Mooc Tals
10/12/2012   10833   N   0   0   1   0   -   MooC Tals

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.0;topicseen
  

[SLok]

Here we can watch Inaba troll his own customer base!  What a guy!

Why don't you just shut up and deliver?

That's all we want from you/BFL.

Because you wouldn't have anything to bitch about then.  It's all about you, Frizz.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112700.msg1350101#msg1350101

Customer base? You call that clown Frizz23 customer base? Even a customer? With his dozens of fake accounts pretending to have ordered everywhere, but actually hasn't anywhere?
The real question by now is: Should tacotime get a Troll tag?

[fcmatt]

If they did not allow refunds i might agree. But since they do, no scammer tag for them.

[pieppiep]

If they did not allow refunds i might agree. But since they do, no scammer tag for them.

At http://www.butterflylabs.com/index.php?s=refund they say :

Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.

In my opinion a good refund will be when the customer wants it, not a condition like this.

[AndrewBUD]

That sucks ^ People ordered with a much earlier ship date in mind..

[Frizz23]

Frizz23 ... pretending to have ordered everywhere, but actually hasn't anywhere

How would you know? Do you work for BFL? No (although some might think they pay you *g*). Do you have access to their books? No.

So again guessing and speculations - a BFL asshamsters favourite waste of time.

[Nolo]

If they did not allow refunds i might agree. But since they do, no scammer tag for them.

At http://www.butterflylabs.com/index.php?s=refund they say :

Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.

In my opinion a good refund will be when the customer wants it, not a condition like this.

I understand why BFL did that.  I would think they anticipated that people would start demanding refunds once the delivery date was delayed by so many months.  They also should have known that the date they were publicly stating wasn't possible.  The concern for the customers should be when these aren't delivered on January first and the flood of refund requests come in.  This would most likely put the company in severe cash flow problems as I would think they have already paid their suppliers, rent, and employees.  

(All the above is obviously speculation as I am just basing my theories on general business operations, and have no specific knowledge of BFL.)

[fcmatt]

If they did not allow refunds i might agree. But since they do, no scammer tag for them.

At http://www.butterflylabs.com/index.php?s=refund they say :

Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.

In my opinion a good refund will be when the customer wants it, not a condition like this.

I am almost positve, based on a diff thread i read, they would do a refund for anyone who asked. But that statement above by them is very shady. Almost like they knew their initial delivery date was bull crap. As well as saying nov. I wonder when they decided on that refund boiler plate agreement. Prob after most orders were in.

[tacotime]

If they did not allow refunds i might agree. But since they do, no scammer tag for them.

Pirate paid quite a lot of interest until his operations shut down, and everyone thought it was legitimate until they lost their money.  What happens if everyone wants a refund from BFL at the same time?

[Frizz23]

What happens if everyone wants a refund from BFL at the same time?

This: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=123719.msg1340618#msg1340618

[tacotime]

Well, I guess I'm not the only one who has lost confidence lately, there's 5 ASIC preorders for sale in the buy/sell forum...  I wonder why they just don't ask BFL for a refund if it's so easy?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127177.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127003.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126695.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124233.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126764.0

[Nolo]

Well, I guess I'm not the only one who has lost confidence lately, there's 5 ASIC preorders for sale in the buy/sell forum...  I wonder why they just don't ask BFL for a refund if it's so easy?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127177.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127003.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126695.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124233.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126764.0

I never had confidence.  That's why I won't order until I see they actually exist and calculate my ROI.  Sure, if they do materialize, I'll be at the back of the line on receiving, but I don't have to stress out over whether I just lost several $1000 on vaporware. 

[tacotime]

The real question by now is: Should tacotime get a Troll tag?

(only if Inaba gets one too)

Regardless, for the rest of your post, everything you said, were it to be true, applies at least doubly to every other vendor, so you'd be absolutely insane to buy anything but BFL then (assuming you bought at all), if what you say is true.

[SLok]

If they did not allow refunds i might agree. But since they do, no scammer tag for them.

Pirate paid quite a lot of interest until his operations shut down, and everyone thought it was legitimate until they lost their money.  What happens if everyone wants a refund from BFL at the same time?

And wtf has BFL to do with pirate and his mostly retard clients thinking there is a thing called free money? Running out of arguments?

Frizz23 ... pretending to have ordered everywhere, but actually hasn't anywhere

How would you know? Do you work for BFL? No (although some might think they pay you *g*). Do you have access to their books? No.

So again guessing and speculations - a BFL asshamsters favourite waste of time.

I don't need to see their books to know what a lying troll you are, wasting time bashing BFL is your specialty with your shitload of accounts to play with here and at the bfl forum. With your made up identities, orders and complaints, come on, give us your order number or put it the the SC order thread at the marketplace section?

Anyone asking for a refund at BFL has gotten it promptly. Only a few asked, because they needed the cash for who knows what.
But hey, never mind, keep trolling, spreading fud, plain lying like Frizz23, it's pretty obvious the anti BFL league is kind of loosing their minds over their soon obsolete mining farms.

Well, I guess I'm not the only one who has lost confidence lately, there's 5 ASIC preorders for sale in the buy/sell forum...  I wonder why they just don't ask BFL for a refund if it's so easy?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127177.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127003.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126695.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124233.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126764.0

Fail. Have you read the comments why they are selling? Or did you have so much haste to troll something new that you skipped that? Go on, read them. No one complaining BFL did not want to refund them, most are singles with a trade in contract to a new order, one wants to make a nice profit by asking 50btc for 2 jalapenos. One is related to the closure of gblse and his mining farm.