Butterfly Labs November Update (ASIC Chips are "flawed". Delays.)

[elux]

ASIC Update 26 November 2012

I have been waiting to have more solid information but it's still not available to me at this moment and I'm going to bed soon, so I wanted to put out an update before I hit the sack.

While I can't give a hard date and say "absolutely" this is the date, it looks like the week of the 11th, but that's the "fuzzy" date I have at the moment and I'm waiting on confirmation on a not-fuzzy date from the foundry right now. There was a flaw in the chip that needed to be addressed and it pushed the date out, plain and simple. We are as frustrated with this process as everyone else is and we apologize for the delays. Contrary to some of the trolls over on Bitcoin Talk, we fully intended to start shipping at the end of October, but with a project as complex as this, even our built in padding has proved to be a bit inadequate to deal with all the moving parts, and we will have slipped by ~6 weeks after all is said and done.

The good news is that our shipment of chips will be substantial and we are re-addressing the quantities and compacting the shipment dates. We will have just shy of 100,000 chips available and in our hands before the end of the year, coming in two waves. The first wave will hopefully be the week of the 11th (probably more towards the end I'm guessing) and the second wave will be just before the end of the year. This is enough chips to cover all pre-orders and a lot more besides. This extra time also allows us to make some refinements we wanted to make to a few components, but more importantly, we may have just enough time to get a custom metal or silicon QFN package ready for the rev1 shipments (should know this week), and if that's the case, it will make rev1 boards ridiculously efficient at heat elimination. Originally this was going to be for Rev2 if we didn't go with a flip-chip design (but this would require a lot more work than our custom packaging) - but the extra time we are forced to endure is going to be put to good use.

Once again, we apologize for the delays. We hate them as much as everyone else (probably more), but as the competitors are experiencing as well, sometimes you are at the mercy of other people's schedules and problems. As we said months ago, we are trying to eliminate as many of those points of failure as possible by bringing everything we can in house. Of course, we can't bring a fab in house, so we are at their mercy at the moment. Once we get the chips in our hands, we will have a sufficient enough quantity to see us through until the next order and it should allow us to get up and running in house or at least make good headway into that arena.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html

Selling on the Internet: Prompt Delivery Rules

By law, you must have a reasonable basis for stating that a product can be shipped within a certain time. If your advertising doesn't clearly and prominently state the shipment period, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days.

If you can't ship within the promised time (or within 30 days if you made no promise), you must notify the customer of the delay, provide a revised shipment date and explain his right to cancel and get a full and prompt refund.

For definite delays of up to 30 days, you may treat the customer's silence as agreeing to the delay. But for longer or indefinite delays - and second and subsequent delays - you must get the customer's written, electronic or verbal consent to the delay. If the customer doesn't give you his okay, you must promptly refund all the money the customer paid you without being asked by the customer.

Finally, you have the right to cancel orders that you can't fill in a timely manner, but you must promptly notify the customer of your decision and make a prompt refund.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/alt051-selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rules

Meaning: In the hypothetical scenario that BFL did in fact abide by the law, anyone with open pre-orders should expect their money back any day now. I expect no such thing.

Can I get a refund on my pre-order?

Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late October or early November 2012.
Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping.
Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/

[1715513535]

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[1715513535]

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[shwoop]

No need for more BFL threads.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112700.msg1360147#msg1360147

[SgtSpike]

They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st.  They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.

[elux]

They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st.  They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.

Does US consumer protection law not apply to BFL?

[crazyates]

They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st.  They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.

Does US consumer protection law not apply to BFL?

How did you get that from what he just said? If it's 30 days after Jan 1st, then they've broken the law.

[Tinua]

They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st.  They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.

Does US consumer protection law not apply to BFL?

I do not understand your problem?
Until now, BFL has refunded allways the full amount, if someone has canceled his order!
So, cancel your order and stop the crap

[SgtSpike]

They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st.  They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.

Does US consumer protection law not apply to BFL?

Let me quote you.

If you can't ship within the promised time (or within 30 days if you made no promise), you must notify the customer of the delay, provide a revised shipment date and explain his right to cancel and get a full and prompt refund.

Their promised time was January 1st.  They have broken no laws, and if it is indeed delayed to January 1st, they have offered anyone a full refund.  Heck, they're even going beyond their original agreement, and have thus far given everyone a refund who has requested it.

[Coinoisseur]

"Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late October or early November 2012. "

Which is why they set January 1st 2013 as the refund start date, ~30 days from the November window. Now speculation on whether they will fail to ship by Jan 1st and then declare bankruptcy citing huge amounts of refund requests, that's a different area of what ifs.

[punin]

They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st.  They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.

Does US consumer protection law not apply to BFL?

I do not understand your problem?
Until now, BFL has refunded allways the full amount, if someone has canceled his order!
So, cancel your order and stop the crap

Apparently there are some problems with refunds: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/441-refund-not-getting-processed.html

[Tinua]

They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st.  They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.

Does US consumer protection law not apply to BFL?

I do not understand your problem?
Until now, BFL has refunded allways the full amount, if someone has canceled his order!
So, cancel your order and stop the crap

Apparently there are some problems with refunds: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/441-refund-not-getting-processed.html

I see exactly 1 post   And this after thanks giving weekend and 2000 mails in the mailbox!
What does that say?

[bitmar]

Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late October or early November 2012.

Which is why they set January 1st 2013 as the refund start date, ~30 days from the November window.

What refund? They spent all (most) money on (unsuccessful?? ) ASIC project. If they fail to produce hardware to January 1st 2013 , you forget about the refund. Only hope that they will succeed. No bank will give them a loan.

[Coinoisseur]

Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late October or early November 2012.

Which is why they set January 1st 2013 as the refund start date, ~30 days from the November window.

What refund? They spent all (most) money on (unsuccessful?? ) ASIC project. If they fail to produce hardware to January 1st 2013 , you forget about the refund. Only hope that they will succeed. No bank will give them a loan.

Didn't they say something about an anonymous venture capitalist backer, pretty sure that was in their initial ASIC project announcements. 

[greyhawk]

Didn't they say something about an anonymous venture capitalist backer, pretty sure that was in their initial ASIC project announcements. 

I hope it's a Chinese relic hunter millionaire.

[AndrewBUD]

Didn't they say something about an anonymous venture capitalist backer, pretty sure that was in their initial ASIC project announcements. 

I hope it's a Chinese head hunter millionaire.

FTFY

[elux]

Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late October or early November 2012.
Which is why they set January 1st 2013 as the refund start date, ~30 days from the November window.

No. It was changed from October.

So will the BitForce SC product line REALLY come out in October? This is a fair question.  Let's review our track record.  If you're not aware, our initial product, the BitForce Single had a slow delivery cycle.  This was initially due to a last minute design change before initial product release.  When we did release it, we weren't quite prepared for the explosive success we had.  After several rounds of scaling, single delivery is in sufficient volume to catch up quickly. The Mini Rig product release has followed it's development and release timeline pretty well.  Initial deliveries aren't far from estimates and the speed of production is on pace to ensure most customers will get their Mini Rigs ahead of schedule. The SC product line has been under development for quite some time and is not the result of an expedited development process.  Although there are always issues during development, our team is highly experienced in exactly this field and we're currently ahead of our original timeline.  Honest Abe, we're scheduling shipments for October of 2012.

See: http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/

Then came the first delay announcement, where they moved shipping to "early November". Then came today's delay announcement.

Didn't they say something about an anonymous venture capitalist backer, pretty sure that was in their initial ASIC project announcements. 

Yes.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/6/prweb9611889.htm

Retail sales have continued to grow strongly, and with exponential month-to-month sales increases, the decision to back BFL was made easily. “Butterfly Labs has strong fundamentals indicative of the kind of rapid growth company we support,” the private equity group notes. “Having made bold investments in new technology, they’re poised to redefine the landscape for SHA-256 hash verification.”

[greyhawk]

I love how even in their own press releases they don't use full names for their officers. That's trust inspiring.

[Bitinvestor]

I love how even in their own press releases they don't use full names for their officers. That's trust inspiring.

I never get tired of this gem:

Butterfly Labs (BF Labs Inc.), a market leader in microprocessor design, ...

 

[elux]

I love how even in their own press releases they don't use full names for their officers. That's trust inspiring.

How to read a press release: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88416.0

I can think of a few reasons a person would conceal his name.
 - felony convictions
 - SEC violations
 - previous bankruptcies
 - history of civil lawsuits over business practices
 - registered sex offender status

[MPOE-PR]

Ouch.

I guess it's a good thing that everyone knows 20k BTC is "but a tiny fraction" of what BFL's worth, seeing how that means they'll be able to do refunds.

[bitmar]

I was wrong, they will wait until 1BTC be worth 1000 $, then a refund will be possible