Butterfly Labs November Update (ASIC Chips are "flawed". Delays.)

[elux]

Dear SLok,

From what I understand, "Nasser G", a Paris, France based IT consultant is implied to have been recently promoted to CEO of Butterfly Labs.

"Nasser G" is employed by a bank in Paris. He has previously declined to answer questions regarding his employment on this forum.

"Nasser G" was titled Chief Technical Officer in a BFL press release dated June 15. 2002.

Some time ago, I made the thread:  Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence.

Some time later, it appears that the Chief Executive (CEO/President/Director) of BFL was fired or demoted in silence, to be replaced by "Nasser G" as Chief Executive, for reasons unknown.

If you or anyone else have corrections to make or new information to share, please do.

The corporate structure and internal workings of BFL are no less mysterious than a black box on the moon.

Which is a bit worrying, considering the circumstances.

Dear Elux,
From Coding in my sleep:
"Sonny Chris Vleisides is not the CEO, Chris Vleisides (his stepfather) is the President (as opposed to his natural father, James Ray Houston, who was listed on the indictment) and Nasser Ghoseiri is the CEO – the confusion is understandable what with all the similar names, step and biological fathers and BFL’s seeming hatred of titles. Sonny is an upper-level executive within the company, but he’s not the absolute head, nor is his stepfather.

Thanks. That is quite helpful. Let's take Sonny on his word and run with it...

I'll just quickly fire off some questions I've wondered about these last few months.
I do realize that BFL has no obligation to answer these questions, but being polite, helpful and forthcoming would be nice for a change.

Besides, why not answer these questions, assuming there's nothing left to hide?


Some unanswered questions:

I note that at the time of the ASIC Announcement, BFL refers to Nasser as their CTO.
I published the summary of evidence on Sept 20. The interview was published on Sept. 23.

It follows that Nasser/BFL_Engineer, the Paris based bank worker, was appointed CEO of Butterfly Labs some time between June 15. and Sept. 23.

1: Who did Nasser replace as CEO?
2: When was Nasser appointed CEO?
3: Who (if any) replaced Nasser as Chief Technical Officer?

In the interview, Sonny Vleisides refers to himself as an "upper-level executive", but does not give any further description.

4: Exactly how many upper level executives are there in this 22 person company?
5: What is Sonny's "upper-level executive" position" in the 22 person company?

6: Is it correct that Nasser is lead engineer on ASIC development, and also CEO in addition to his bank job in Paris?

7: Why is the CEO now based in Paris? Does BFL have a Paris office?
8: Is the former CTO (now CEO) the only french employee? Isn't this a bit... impractical?

9: Who is "Nick W" of Butterfly Labs? (Signatory/contact on the press release.) [Link]

10: Who is the nameless Venture Capital / Private Equity Group referred to in the press release? (Or more to the point: Does it exist.)
11: Has BFL raised any capital other than pre-order money?

12: Who owns the company?
13: Who founded the company?


And... That'll do for a start.

If anyone outside of BFL has answers to any of these, feel free to chime in.

[crazyates]

Some unanswered questions:

I note that at the time of the ASIC Announcement, BFL refers to Nasser as their CTO.
I published the summary of evidence on Sept 20. The interview was published on Sept. 23.

It follows that Nasser/BFL_Engineer, the Paris based bank worker, was appointed CEO of Butterfly Labs some time between June 15. and Sept. 23.

1: Who did Nasser replace as CEO?
2: When was Nasser appointed CEO?
3: Who (if any) replaced Nasser as Chief Technical Officer?

In the interview, Sonny Vleisides refers to himself as an "upper-level executive", but does not give any further description.

4: Exactly how many upper level executives are there in this 22 person company?
5: What is Sonny's "upper-level executive" position" in the 22 person company?

6: Is it correct that Nasser is lead engineer on ASIC development, and also CEO in addition to his bank job in Paris?

7: Why is the CEO now based in Paris? Does BFL have a Paris office?
8: Is the former CTO (now CEO) the only french employee? Isn't this a bit... impractical?

9: Who is "Nick W" of Butterfly Labs? (Signatory/contact on the press release.) [Link]

10: Who is the nameless Venture Capital / Private Equity Group referred to in the press release? (Or more to the point: Does it exist.)
11: Has BFL raised any capital other than pre-order money?

12: Who owns the company?
13: Who founded the company?


And... That'll do for a start.

If anyone outside of BFL has answers to any of these, feel free to chime in.

You honestly think BFL is going to answer these questions? I challenge you to find ANY 20+ employee company that deals with millions of dollars of sales, and have them publicly answer a 13 point interrogation concerning their current and past CEOs, where they live, detailed internal structuring, why they chose that structuring, name an ANONYMOUS venture capitalist, and then reveal internal financial reports.

Are you for FUCKING serious?! Almost any company out there would laugh you straight to the door. I understand that the "Bitcoin" world can get a little askew from the "Real" world, but man, this tops the cake.

[SLok]

...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............

Yet you boldly ordered a Jalapeno, and BFL cancelled it. And yet you lent a broke-ass guy who would go mining with a 12btc graphic card he could not afford and needed a loan for, 6 coins, which he would pay back of the profits, while the fine for being late on that loan (did you ever hear from him again?) was more than he could earn with it? Math, it ain't easy.

[Frizz23]

@ Frizz23, or bitsnpieces, or Cpt. Nemo, or BFL_Lab_Rat, or whatever dress you are wearing tonight, nobody pays me, and the signature is a lottery ticket, but you already knew that. At least 3 of your identities complained about those signatures sofar, ...

You seem to do some nice bookkeeping. Can you please tell me which identities, the date of the complaints, the total number of your postings on those days, the phase of the moon plus how often you touched yourself & got off thinking about BFL?

[MeSarah]

+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

[bcpokey]

Que? When did it become some sort of crazy notion to want to know who is behind a business?

I googled "20 person company" and the first result was a google news report about a 20 person company that landed 80 million dollars in funding, named Anandale Construction. Googling Anandale Construction founder first result is a business journal Profile about the Founder (who is also President and CEO), a brief rundown of his personal history, his business partners names, the sources of his funding (including an upcoming contract with An Airforce Base for $10Mil), I stopped there but I suspect there's plenty more where that came from. (Side note: Not a publicly traded company)
Business journals routinely run profiles on businesses of all sizes who are more than happy to tell you their whole life story. Why in the world this seems CRAZY to people is... interesting.

Most businesses don't have the direct personal cozy relationship with their customers that Bitcoin and ASICs do, and so it's not often that anyone would have a chance to directly request that information, however freely making that information available is not at all uncommon.

Whether or not they choose to do so is their business, and I will be the first person to admit I will not tell any of you anything about who I am if I can help it, but it is hardly some sort of madman's snooping prying-eye request. I shrug I guess.

[Crypt_Current]

Que? When did it become some sort of crazy notion to want to know who is behind a business?

I googled "20 person company" and the first result was a google news report about a 20 person company that landed 80 million dollars in funding, named Anandale Construction. Googling Anandale Construction founder first result is a business journal Profile about the Founder (who is also President and CEO), a brief rundown of his personal history, his business partners names, the sources of his funding (including an upcoming contract with An Airforce Base for $10Mil), I stopped there but I suspect there's plenty more where that came from. (Side note: Not a publicly traded company)
Business journals routinely run profiles on businesses of all sizes who are more than happy to tell you their whole life story. Why in the world this seems CRAZY to people is... interesting.

Most businesses don't have the direct personal cozy relationship with their customers that Bitcoin and ASICs do, and so it's not often that anyone would have a chance to directly request that information, however freely making that information available is not at all uncommon.

Whether or not they choose to do so is their business, and I will be the first person to admit I will not tell any of you anything about who I am if I can help it, but it is hardly some sort of madman's snooping prying-eye request. I shrug I guess.

Good post; pretty much sums up my own opinion on the matter.  I paid my however much BTC for my 2 Jale's on preorder -- If they don't deliver (to anyone -- not just me) by Jan 30th then I will file for refund, and pursue legal recourse if applicable.  This really is a simple matter -- I don't quite understand why everyone is making such a paranoid huge deal out of it (and I'm a questionably paranoid drug user!)
I got burned by Bitcoinica as well.  But that might have been due to my own emotional trading "style" -- I mean that WAS my first venture into forex.  I won sometimes... Big... But netted a loss.  So what?  This is the wild west of crypto-gambling.  [EDIT part:  I just received an email from the liquidation company that owns the Bitcoinica LP liability or whatever; have printed it out and am going to send it off in the next couple days, officially filing my claim for that loss.  MORE than I EVER expected from that.  I consider myself lucky]
Point is:   You take the bad with the good and you risk what you're comfortable with.
And I am by NO means a wealthy person... I scraped together school financial aid proceeds & SSI to afford my 1.8 GH that I currently mine on and barely pay my rent with -- I DEFINITELY live on the edge -- But this is my decision. I am a gambling man, no doubt.  Preordering with BFL seemed to me like a winning bet.  We shall see.
****I**** have room to complain... But I am NOT.
I await the falling of the chips.  Settle down, everyone.  Karma will distribute properly and justice will ultimately be done, on the this matter as well as on the most grandiose scale.
As above, so below.

[Unacceptable]

+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

  Holy crap MeSarah !!!!!!

Have you been BFLwashed?

I think the redheads are doing thier job  



Nice retort,I'm just impressed you didn't "jump on the bandwagon"  

[crazyates]

+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

  Holy crap MeSarah !!!!!!

Have you been BFLwashed?

I think the redheads are doing thier job  



Nice retort,I'm just impressed you didn't "jump on the bandwagon"  

Haha which is funny, cuz I am a redhead.

[Unacceptable]

+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

  Holy crap MeSarah !!!!!!

Have you been BFLwashed?

I think the redheads are doing thier job  



Nice retort,I'm just impressed you didn't "jump on the bandwagon"  

Haha which is funny, cuz I am a redhead.

Haha,Me TOO 

[Badonkadonk]

+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

  Holy crap MeSarah !!!!!!

Have you been BFLwashed?

I think the redheads are doing thier job  



Nice retort,I'm just impressed you didn't "jump on the bandwagon"  

Haha which is funny, cuz I am a redhead.

Haha,Me TOO 

Oh god, this made my year. 

[PuertoLibre]

****I**** have room to complain... But I am NOT.
I await the falling of the chips.  Settle down, everyone.  Karma will distribute properly and justice will ultimately be done, on the this matter as well as on the most grandiose scale.
As above, so below.

+10
Good point.

[BitcoinINV]

Yet you boldly ordered a Jalapeno, and BFL cancelled it. And yet you lent a broke-ass guy who would go mining with a 12btc graphic card he could not afford and needed a loan for, 6 coins, which he would pay back of the profits, while the fine for being late on that loan (did you ever hear from him again?) was more than he could earn with it? Math, it ain't easy.

...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............

What does my outside dealings have to do with this discussion? Can you not back your case with logical comments?
You should go hang out on the BFL forums with like minded Koolaid drinkers. This post is about BFL not my lending practices, but if you wanted to get into it. I lent money and I knew I was lending money, Unlike BFL who took out a loan and told you it was a pre-order.
Does anyone know the exact number of Singles and Rigs sold? I want to do some math to see about what there operating funds were.

Just another tidbit here.
Here is another thing to look at, A company in Communist China is releasing more details then a American company. Now people bitch about jobs being lost to them but then look how the U.S. Company acts and then how the Chinese company acts. Ask Avalon something and they answer. Ask BFL something and you get ridiculed.

[Starlightbreaker]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.0


closest you can get.

[DiabloD3]

Yet you boldly ordered a Jalapeno, and BFL cancelled it. And yet you lent a broke-ass guy who would go mining with a 12btc graphic card he could not afford and needed a loan for, 6 coins, which he would pay back of the profits, while the fine for being late on that loan (did you ever hear from him again?) was more than he could earn with it? Math, it ain't easy.

...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............

What does my outside dealings have to do with this discussion? Can you not back your case with logical comments?
You should go hang out on the BFL forums with like minded Koolaid drinkers. This post is about BFL not my lending practices, but if you wanted to get into it. I lent money and I knew I was lending money, Unlike BFL who took out a loan and told you it was a pre-order.
Does anyone know the exact number of Singles and Rigs sold? I want to do some math to see about what there operating funds were.

Just another tidbit here.
Here is another thing to look at, A company in Communist China is releasing more details then a American company. Now people bitch about jobs being lost to them but then look how the U.S. Company acts and then how the Chinese company acts. Ask Avalon something and they answer. Ask BFL something and you get ridiculed.

Yeah, but ngzhang is just a single guy who isn't doing this as a business or as his job... it may turn into a job in the future, but this is still a side thing for him. Hes willing to license his designs to whoever asks for a small fee (although I don't think he can relicense the SHA256 IP core hes using for Avalon, so you'd still buy the ASICs from him but fab your own boards however you want).

Its not about US vs China, its about greed. BFL wants to become a legitimate company so hard that they're pissing off all their potential customers, but with ngzhang, people are throwing money at him because hes proven several times hes legit and delivers and has that whole "its done when its done and not a moment sooner" mentality.

[creativex]

I like the way ngzhang and Avalon is handling their product launch. They're the class act of ASICs thus far.

BFL? ...well they're on the other end of that scale.

[Frizz23]

... BFL wants to become a legitimate company so hard that they're pissing off all their potential customers, ...

It surely doesn't help to insult (potential) customers.

Just do a forum search here:
Search for: "idiot"
by user: "Inaba"

Maybe BFL should do the same - and question if they made the right decision to hire Inaba/BFL_Josh as their representative.

[Unacceptable]

... BFL wants to become a legitimate company so hard that they're pissing off all their potential customers, ...

It surely doesn't help to insult (potential) customers.

Just do a forum search here:
Search for: "idiot"
by user: "Inaba"

Maybe BFL should do the same - and question if they made the right decision to hire Inaba/BFL_Josh as their representative.

I think BFL did good in hiring Inaba....you just don't care for him because unlike most folks,he's not scared of you & your whining 

[SLok]

Yet you boldly ordered a Jalapeno, and BFL cancelled it. And yet you lent a broke-ass guy who would go mining with a 12btc graphic card he could not afford and needed a loan for, 6 coins, which he would pay back off the profits, while the fine for being late on that loan (did you ever hear from him again?) was more than he could earn with it? Math, it ain't easy.

...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............

What does my outside dealings have to do with this discussion? Can you not back your case with logical comments?

Do the math you said, re-read my reply, your math skills suck.

[Gatorhex]

"Nasser G" is employed by a bank in Paris. He has previously declined to answer questions regarding his employment on this forum.

Who is the nameless Venture Capital / Private Equity Group referred to in the press release? (Or more to the point: Does it exist.)

Doesn't the first question answer the second one and vice versa? A bank would sit one of their guys on the board if they were worried about their investment/loan.