Warning, ALL BFL PRE-ORDERS ARE NON REFUNDABLE - CONFIRMED BY INABA

[abeaulieu]

Nothing new here, this refund policy is quite old, and BFL still refund if asked, even if they could wait until jan 1st for refund..

It seems you do not grasp what an official policy is.

Whatever they say, do and promise means nothing when they have an official policy stating NO REFUNDS.
...
{blah blah blah}

Not sure what has inspired so much hatred mem, but there are plenty of people that have been issued refunds and I'm sure that there will be more issued due to the announcement of the most recent delay.

Be that as it may, as usual we will gladly honor any refund requests on orders people have placed with BFL. If you wish to cancel your order and request a refund, please email office@butterflylabs.com with your order number and customer service will be happy to accommodate you.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update.html

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[creativex]

You'd think someone at BFL could've been bothered to change the official policy statement regarding refund policy on their website, but I guess then it wouldn't provide the CYA protection mentioned previously.

[mem]

I'm not too sure if this is lame attempt at trolling, or if you are just misinformed. I've never advertised any companies in my signature, let alone BFL. I have purchased stuff from BFL, and have a user account on their support forum, but that's as far as my involvement has been with the company.

Ahh true, i see red text and an idiot defending BFL and assume the worst.

[mem]

Nothing new here, this refund policy is quite old, and BFL still refund if asked, even if they could wait until jan 1st for refund..

It seems you do not grasp what an official policy is.

Whatever they say, do and promise means nothing when they have an official policy stating NO REFUNDS.

Twist, turn and make excuse as I know you will, their policy is and always has been no refunds.
Meaning they can at any point cease business and keep the preorder capital.

You know this to be true and it is factually true.
Your cute opinions are just that and they can offer no assurances.


Keep insisting you trust a company run by a convicted felon because he gives you the warm fuzzies, I'll stick to the unadulterated facts.

I'm quite impressed to see that few bitcointalk user are making so much effort to bash BFL.. post full of fallacy, misconducting lies etc.. those few haters must be paid to use so much time posting about it..  

You are the liar sir and its disgusting how you blatantly ignore facts and attempt to slander those who present the very facts that contradict your opinions.
Still you are another BFL shill, I dont expect you to acknowledge the facts I only expect you to attempt to derail the topic with your lies and misinformation as I have quoted above.

There are no fallacies in my argument only facts quoted from their own webpage.
misconducting lies etc - the only lies here are your own, if you have any character worth defending then list said lies and we discuss them fact for fact.
haters must be paid to use so much time posting about it. - says  the shill with his paid sig.

You would be funny were you not so sad.

You are a fucking drama queen.  Do you even have an investment with BFL?  If not, why do you care? If you do, then why are you rooting for them to fail?

Oh that's right you're a drama queen. This post has nothing to do with BFL and everything to do with you starting shit so that you are the center of attention.

seriously, it's pathetic.

Hello my Drama Queen.

Please let me know when you have an argument of substance so I can address it.
Thanks for your bitchy rant, now get back to your shilling.

[mem]

Nothing new here, this refund policy is quite old, and BFL still refund if asked, even if they could wait until jan 1st for refund..

It seems you do not grasp what an official policy is.

Whatever they say, do and promise means nothing when they have an official policy stating NO REFUNDS.
...
{blah blah blah}

Not sure what has inspired so much hatred mem, but there are plenty of people that have been issued refunds and I'm sure that there will be more issued due to the announcement of the most recent delay.

Be that as it may, as usual we will gladly honor any refund requests on orders people have placed with BFL. If you wish to cancel your order and request a refund, please email office@butterflylabs.com with your order number and customer service will be happy to accommodate you.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update.html

Im familair with Sonny from his previous scams, he is a disgusting human being.

You'd think someone at BFL could've been bothered to change the official policy statement regarding refund policy on their website, but I guess then it wouldn't provide the CYA protection mentioned previously.

Official policy is official policy. 
This is just another tactic from Scummy Sonny.

You write the rules in your favor and hide them away in plain sight. You then do what any decent company does and process refunds normally.

Then when you decide you want to cut and run, you can do so knowing that your gullible clients (the only type BFL have) dont have a leg to stand on.

[The-Real-Link]

Crazy thread is crazy.  But no, the current announcement thread on BFL's site simply says that regardless of the current order and shipping status, pre-purchasers are being offered a refund.

[Starlightbreaker]

well, i finally requested a refund from bfl.

we'll see how long it will take them to process it.

[mem]

well, i finally requested a refund from bfl.

we'll see how long it will take them to process it.

Just like Pirates Ponzi all its going to take is enough refund orders for them to disappear.

[creativex]

Hey no fair! Where the hell is Josh?!? When I was daring enough to suggest that BFL might be a bankruptcy risk he showed up and got all verbally riled up. How come *THIS* guy gets to state the obvious without being verbally assaulted?

Thanks for the sig quote BTW mem...gold.

[PuertoLibre]

well, i finally requested a refund from bfl.

we'll see how long it will take them to process it.

Just like Pirates Ponzi all its going to take is enough refund orders for them to disappear.

Oh I know what you mean.

When I read creativex repost of what the BFL rep said.....one thought came to mind.

A fab worker at the other end of the line with a conversation like this: [Imaginary on my part, of course]

BFL: What is the latest update?
Fab: Well, it is going well.
BFL: Is it done yet?
Fab: No, but it will be done soon. You know, we don't want to screw up fabbing your "?hand routed?" chip.
BFL: But the chips are made with a really expensive mask that costs a few million. The mask is just a glorified light filter to produce microelectronics....
Fab: Sir, don't patronize us.
BFL: Uh sorry. So...
Fab: So?
BFL: So, when will the chips be ready?
Fab: You know, these things take time. It's not like this is a process governed by physics and stringent mathematics. Geez.
BFL: Oh, I guess your right?
Fab: We are always right.

[30 seconds of silence on the phone]
BFL: So when will the chips be ready, our customers are "impatient".
Fab: When they are ready, Sir.
BFL: So is it like 10 days?
Fab: No, that sounds like it would be too soon.
BFL: Maybe 15 days?
Fab: No, that sounds like it would be too soon.
BFL: Maybe....
Fab: Lets say, 30 days and call it a day? Sounds good?
BFL: Wait, was that a question or a statement?
FAB: [Ripping up the BFL contract in the background, specifying the Jan 24th deadline.]
BFL: What was that noise just now?
Fab: Huh? What noise? Look we don't want to lose any money on making your very dense and very "hand routed" chips. These are complex devices you know. We have to sign off on these multi-layered processes so we can protect ourselves from doing them at our cost!
BFL: I understand. [Sobbing in the background]
Fab: Listen your a nice guy and all, but keep in mind you still have to wait for us to ship the final "naked" chips to the chip packing company of your choice. That is another 7 days for 100,000 chips.
Fab: Then you have to wait for the chip packaging farm to ship them to you overseas. That is at least 5 to 10 days for a pallet. On top of that you will have to send your final pallet of packaged chips, once they arrive at your door, to your assembly plant to have SMT machines put your boards and chips together. That can be anywhere from 3 days to 15.
BFL: [Starts to sweat profusely, then sobs loudly]
Fab: [Fab guy talks over the sounds of sobbing]
Then you have to wait for the completed assembly to arrive back at your door. So that is about 5 to 10 days.
Fab: Then you have to put these together on your own final assembly line, package them and out for shipping. That is maybe anywhere from:
20+30 days = 50 days at best.
40+30 days = 70 days at worst.

Fab: Cheer up, just tell your customers of only the fab delay. And don't allude too strongly that we are still only at the stage of fabbing your chip. Usually our customers' clients are too dumb to realize what that actually means. It'll all work out. Just dole out the delays nice and slow, not all at once. God no.
Fab: [Hearty Laugh]

BFL: [ Hangs up the phone, starts typing up the forum message to let his customers know what is going to go down. ]

----------------------

That is what it went down like in my overly creative imagination.

[PuertoLibre]

P.S. This by the way, says that Avalon was correct when they said that the chips take a helluva lot of time to be fabbed.

The "Full Custom" + 65nm = taking its toll in terms of time.

Folks, this is why the other 2 chose much bigger processes. They are older and the bugs easier to surmount.  (And alot cheaper!)

[creativex]

It's almost as though you're suggesting that Josh was being dishonest(gasp) when he suggested that BFL could still ship products before the end of the year!

[Frizz23]

Folks, this is why the other 2 chose much bigger processes.

But but ... daddy ... they don't have Unicorn blood!

 

[PuertoLibre]

It's almost as though you're suggesting that Josh was being dishonest(gasp) when he suggested that BFL could still ship products before the end of the year!

NO, it's just that in the midst of his intense anger, he has miscalculated and forwarded the wrong time frame to his customers.

We should never forget that he is indeed human. Perhaps.  

Edit: He will no doubt remedy it after he realizes the time frame is incorrect. (We all hope?)

[wdBTCtrader]

Nothing new here, this refund policy is quite old, and BFL still refund if asked, even if they could wait until jan 1st for refund..

It seems you do not grasp what an official policy is.

Whatever they say, do and promise means nothing when they have an official policy stating NO REFUNDS.

Twist, turn and make excuse as I know you will, their policy is and always has been no refunds.
Meaning they can at any point cease business and keep the preorder capital.

You know this to be true and it is factually true.
Your cute opinions are just that and they can offer no assurances.


Keep insisting you trust a company run by a convicted felon because he gives you the warm fuzzies, I'll stick to the unadulterated facts.

I'm quite impressed to see that few bitcointalk user are making so much effort to bash BFL.. post full of fallacy, misconducting lies etc.. those few haters must be paid to use so much time posting about it..  

You are the liar sir and its disgusting how you blatantly ignore facts and attempt to slander those who present the very facts that contradict your opinions.
Still you are another BFL shill, I dont expect you to acknowledge the facts I only expect you to attempt to derail the topic with your lies and misinformation as I have quoted above.

There are no fallacies in my argument only facts quoted from their own webpage.
misconducting lies etc - the only lies here are your own, if you have any character worth defending then list said lies and we discuss them fact for fact.
haters must be paid to use so much time posting about it. - says  the shill with his paid sig.

You would be funny were you not so sad.

You are a fucking drama queen.  Do you even have an investment with BFL?  If not, why do you care? If you do, then why are you rooting for them to fail?

Oh that's right you're a drama queen. This post has nothing to do with BFL and everything to do with you starting shit so that you are the center of attention.

seriously, it's pathetic.

Hello my Drama Queen.

Please let me know when you have an argument of substance so I can address it.
Thanks for your bitchy rant, now get back to your shilling.

If  you will state fact that can be argued then we could have an educated discussion, but you just seem only want to make loose connections in order to  back up your assumptions.  For what purpose? You must be the shill, for a competitor.   

[creativex]

He already cited BFL's own FAQ, that clearly states pre-order funds are officially non-refundable until January 1, 2013. This obviously gives BFL the cover to deny refunds between now and that date, if they so choose. Whether it's in violation of FTC regulation or not is another issue.

[wdBTCtrader]

He already cited BFL's own FAQ, that clearly states pre-order funds are officially non-refundable until January 1, 2013. This obviously gives BFL the cover to deny refunds between now and that date, if they so choose. Whether it's in violation of FTC regulation or not is another issue.

But failed to cite or recognize the statements from Inaba and BFL staff that post-dated the FAQ that states they will honor refunds.  Others have cited them in this thread, but so conveniently they are ignored. 

[creativex]

Whatever Inaba says here is not official BFL policy and wouldn't be enforceable even if he actually changed to his BFL_Josh costume AND you got it in writing.

Can you even imagine a disgruntled BFL pre-order customer attempting to cite Inaba's bitcointalk rants as evidence that they're entitled to a refund?

How many seconds would it take the COO of BFL to change the official BFL Faq if he so chose to? Why hasn't he? It's policy that supercedes the faq right?

[wdBTCtrader]

Whatever Inaba says here is not official BFL policy and wouldn't be enforceable even if he actually changed to his BFL_Josh costume AND you got it in writing.

Can you even imagine a disgruntled BFL pre-order customer attempting to cite Inaba's bitcointalk rants as evidence that they're entitled to a refund?

How many seconds would it take the COO of BFL to change the official BFL Faq if he so chose to? Why hasn't he? It's policy that supercedes the faq right?

Not from here, but on BFL's own forum site, and not from only Inaba, but from other BFL staff

[creativex]

Not from here, but on BFL's own forum site, and not from only Inaba, but from other BFL staff

I'm not convinced there is any BFL staff aside from Inaba/BFL_Josh Zerlan, but that's another discussion.

So you tell me, why if it's official policy and BFL employee(s) could type it in a forum post they can easily delete, these same employee(s) cannot simply change the official faq? Why is it so difficult to make this policy official?