Warning, ALL BFL PRE-ORDERS ARE NON REFUNDABLE - CONFIRMED BY INABA

[wdBTCtrader]

This is pointless

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[Syke]

I agree, but that doesn't change the fact that a legally binding contract has been established by staff designated by BFL.  The FAQ is not more binding than the statements made by the staff. They are both binding, but in court what matters is the date they were stated.

Statements made by random staff members is hardly binding. It doesn't matter what most employees say. Only someone with real authority to enact policy can make binding statements. Since Josh spends all his time trolling forums, I doubt he has any authority.

Secondary reason is many customers do not read the forums, and so their only information is that refunds are not available. Having conflicting information publicly posted is lying to customers, something BFL loves to do.

[wdBTCtrader]

I'm done dealing with trolls

[wdBTCtrader]

So tired of the BS.... Like dealing with kids.   In fact I'm convinced that a great number of the people in this community are either high school students trying to score on SR or college students who still know everything. 

[Syke]

So, you're stating that what an officially appointed public representative states for a company is not legally binding?  As far as I'm aware they are not random employees and the forums have been designated as Official word from BFL by BFL staff and not Inaba..

Sure, they're *currently* giving refunds. But as stated by Josh, the official policy stands, and is CYA, so they can stop refunding orders at any time they feel like it.

[crazyates]

So, you're stating that what an officially appointed public representative states for a company is not legally binding?  As far as I'm aware they are not random employees and the forums have been designated as Official word from BFL by BFL staff and not Inaba..

Sure, they're *currently* giving refunds. But as stated by Josh, the official policy stands, and is CYA, so they can stop refunding orders at any time they feel like it.

So wait, they can change their company policy at any time?! When did that start?! [/sarcasm]

So if their original FAQ stated that they would offer refunds, and then in some date in the future they changed their FAQ to a no-refund policy and stopped giving refunds, would you bitch as much as you are now? I mean, you're whining and moaning and bitching for NO reason. Sure, you think you have a reason, but it's so miniscule that it's literally pointless.

[Maged]

So, you're stating that what an officially appointed public representative states for a company is not legally binding?  As far as I'm aware they are not random employees and the forums have been designated as Official word from BFL by BFL staff and not Inaba..

Sure, they're *currently* giving refunds. But as stated by Josh, the official policy stands, and is CYA, so they can stop refunding orders at any time they feel like it.

...at a penalty of $16000 per order + whatever the local consumer protection laws say. Their official policy is meaningless. They'd be stupid to actually follow it.

[smoothie]

It is so hilarious that all the BFL haters that open up post after post of 'bla bla bla'....

any newbie coming to the forums sees nothing but BFL everywhere....

BFL marketing engine:  haters and trolls

Remember all the responses to all the PirateAt40 and BTCST haters? Oh right, all those who defending Pirate are now quiet as fuck when confronted about their support of Pirate and his bullshit.

Sounds like you're doing the same for BFL. LOL

[smoothie]

As stated, they have indeed delivered FPGA products. Then like now they were months late, but they did eventually deliver.

^THIS Reminds me of when people said "Pirate paid before he will pay again." ....and then he stalled and stalled and made excuses and then went silent.

ROFL!

[smoothie]

Nothing new here, this refund policy is quite old, and BFL still refund if asked, even if they could wait until jan 1st for refund..

It seems you do not grasp what an official policy is.

Whatever they say, do and promise means nothing when they have an official policy stating NO REFUNDS.
...
{blah blah blah}

Not sure what has inspired so much hatred mem, but there are plenty of people that have been issued refunds and I'm sure that there will be more issued due to the announcement of the most recent delay.

Be that as it may, as usual we will gladly honor any refund requests on orders people have placed with BFL. If you wish to cancel your order and request a refund, please email office@butterflylabs.com with your order number and customer service will be happy to accommodate you.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update.html

In your world of "warm and fuzzy BFL" ....HATE = calling things as they lie (pun intended lol).

 

[smoothie]

well, i finally requested a refund from bfl.

we'll see how long it will take them to process it.

Just like Pirates Ponzi all its going to take is enough refund orders for them to disappear.

I'll guarantee that if everyone who placed a pre-order were to request a refund at the same time that BFL could not refund all customers with pre-orders within a 1 month time frame. Poniz is Ponzi

[mem]

well, i finally requested a refund from bfl.

we'll see how long it will take them to process it.

Just like Pirates Ponzi all its going to take is enough refund orders for them to disappear.

I'll guarantee that if everyone who placed a pre-order were to request a refund at the same time that BFL could not refund all customers with pre-orders within a 1 month time frame. Poniz is Ponzi

I'll take that 1 step further, Id bet that Sonny would pack his bags and bolt while Inaba would be here insisting that "your pre-orders refunds are being processed but there have been some unfortunate delays".

[smoothie]

well, i finally requested a refund from bfl.

we'll see how long it will take them to process it.

Just like Pirates Ponzi all its going to take is enough refund orders for them to disappear.

Oh I know what you mean.

When I read creativex repost of what the BFL rep said.....one thought came to mind.

A fab worker at the other end of the line with a conversation like this: [Imaginary on my part, of course]

BFL: What is the latest update?
Fab: Well, it is going well.
BFL: Is it done yet?
Fab: No, but it will be done soon. You know, we don't want to screw up fabbing your "?hand routed?" chip.
BFL: But the chips are made with a really expensive mask that costs a few million. The mask is just a glorified light filter to produce microelectronics....
Fab: Sir, don't patronize us.
BFL: Uh sorry. So...
Fab: So?
BFL: So, when will the chips be ready?
Fab: You know, these things take time. It's not like this is a process governed by physics and stringent mathematics. Geez.
BFL: Oh, I guess your right?
Fab: We are always right.

[30 seconds of silence on the phone]
BFL: So when will the chips be ready, our customers are "impatient".
Fab: When they are ready, Sir.
BFL: So is it like 10 days?
Fab: No, that sounds like it would be too soon.
BFL: Maybe 15 days?
Fab: No, that sounds like it would be too soon.
BFL: Maybe....
Fab: Lets say, 30 days and call it a day? Sounds good?
BFL: Wait, was that a question or a statement?
FAB: [Ripping up the BFL contract in the background, specifying the Jan 24th deadline.]
BFL: What was that noise just now?
Fab: Huh? What noise? Look we don't want to lose any money on making your very dense and very "hand routed" chips. These are complex devices you know. We have to sign off on these multi-layered processes so we can protect ourselves from doing them at our cost!
BFL: I understand. [Sobbing in the background]
Fab: Listen your a nice guy and all, but keep in mind you still have to wait for us to ship the final "naked" chips to the chip packing company of your choice. That is another 7 days for 100,000 chips.
Fab: Then you have to wait for the chip packaging farm to ship them to you overseas. That is at least 5 to 10 days for a pallet. On top of that you will have to send your final pallet of packaged chips, once they arrive at your door, to your assembly plant to have SMT machines put your boards and chips together. That can be anywhere from 3 days to 15.
BFL: [Starts to sweat profusely, then sobs loudly]
Fab: [Fab guy talks over the sounds of sobbing]
Then you have to wait for the completed assembly to arrive back at your door. So that is about 5 to 10 days.
Fab: Then you have to put these together on your own final assembly line, package them and out for shipping. That is maybe anywhere from:
20+30 days = 50 days at best.
40+30 days = 70 days at worst.

Fab: Cheer up, just tell your customers of only the fab delay. And don't allude too strongly that we are still only at the stage of fabbing your chip. Usually our customers' clients are too dumb to realize what that actually means. It'll all work out. Just dole out the delays nice and slow, not all at once. God no.
Fab: [Hearty Laugh]

BFL: [ Hangs up the phone, starts typing up the forum message to let his customers know what is going to go down. ]

----------------------

That is what it went down like in my overly creative imagination.

+1 This post is probably not far from the actual truth (in a better case scenario) in what is going on with BFL behind the scenes. lol

[makomk]

...at a penalty of $16000 per order + whatever the local consumer protection laws say. Their official policy is meaningless. They'd be stupid to actually follow it.

I think they're already risking that just by having their official policy say what it does, even if they don't plan to actually follow it. Not to mention the fact that they're also legally required to send their customers notices telling them about the delay and that they have the right to cancel their order, which I'm fairly sure they haven't done based on the complaints from customers on their forums.

[wdBTCtrader]

By logic how can an FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) be considered more of an "Official" policy than any other forms of communication.  Before you react let me explain.  


When someone states something is "Official" policy that infers that it has been ratified by that company's board, owner/s or whomever may have such authority within that company.  An FAQ does not have to ratified to be published. Therefore holds no more weight than other forms of communication

[creativex]

A faq is easily accessible and oft referenced. The words of one or more BFL reps typed up on a forum that only a low percentage of customers are likely to even register for are meaningless in the long run.

Let me put it this way. Let's say for instance BFL_Jody is fired tomorrow. Is BFL now responsible for what she's said in the past? How many customers have based decisions on what this one rep has said?

Now compare that scenario to the words included in the company's faq. They're not attributed to one person the way the meaningless hostility Josh spews here is, they're understood to be the words of the company...IOW official policy.

[Fjordbit]

As stated, they have indeed delivered FPGA products. Then like now they were months late, but they did eventually deliver.

^THIS Reminds me of when people said "Pirate paid before he will pay again." ....and then he stalled and stalled and made excuses and then went silent.

ROFL!

The problem with pirate wasn't that he had paid out before. The problem with pirate was he was offering 7% weekly interest on all deposits, making his business an obvious HYIP/Ponzi. People like myself spent months trying to convince people that the quacking like a duck was indeed coming from a duck. This has no bearing of a relationship to this scenario where BFL has a pretty modest business plan to execute. The fact that you are conflating these does a disservice to the bitcoin community because it will make newcomers complacent towards the real problems with HYIP scams. Once BFL delivers, those who did not live through the pirate era will see this post as proof that some future HYIP scammer is okay.

Think about the consequences of your words before you post.

[creativex]

Think about the consequences of your words before you post.

Wait, you said this to smoothie? LOL

If this has *ANY* effect at all, please next ask the bernanke to stop printing.

[wdBTCtrader]

Let me put it this way. Let's say for instance BFL_Jody is fired tomorrow. Is BFL now responsible for what she's said in the past? How many customers have based decisions on what this one rep has said?

Actually yes, unless it was proven that those statements were made erroneously.  

I do not correlate the following statement with BFL.  I only wish to convey a point by using an extreme example:  Whistle blowers have often been fired, but there statements have been found credible.

[creativex]

Let me put it this way. Let's say for instance BFL_Jody is fired tomorrow. Is BFL now responsible for what she's said in the past? How many customers have based decisions on what this one rep has said?

Actually yes, unless it was proven that those statements were made erroneously.

 

...and how do you prove that? More importantly how do you disprove a claim by BFL that those statements were made erroneously?

You either fail to grasp what I'm saying or you're intentionally ignoring the topic, so I'm going to try one last time.

BFL as a company(not a group of individuals) is responsible for the contents of the official faq

I do not correlate the following statement with BFL.  I only wish to convey a point by using an extreme example:  Whistle blowers have often been fired, but there statements have been found credible.

This has nothing to do with what we're discussing. Though a BFL whistleblower would be most welcome just now, it seems highly unlikely if the list of employees is as short as I believe it is.