A question about the release of Darkcoin/Dashcoin

[adhitthana]

I am a bit skeptical of Dash, but I've been wrong before and I could be wrong about Dash. So, I have a question.
IIUC when Darkcoin/Dash was first released Evan Duffield told people that mining would start at a certain time. However (and again this is my understanding and I could be wrong), Evan then went and issued it early with the result that miners who had believed it would be released as he had said missed the early mining stage when many (?) coins were released/mined.

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

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[bathrobehero]

I'm not sure about the early release but the poor early distribution is what most people have issues with:

[tokeweed]

Dash was ninja mined by the dev himself.  I say good job to that.  Long term success sacrificed for short term gain.  That says a lot about the dev.

[adhitthana]

Dash was ninja mined by the dev himself.  I say good job to that.

Obviously it's good for them, but is it good for me?

[tokeweed]

Edited my post to...

Dash was ninja mined by the dev himself.  I say good job to that.  Long term success sacrificed for short term gain.  That says a lot about the dev.

It could be good for you if you know how to trade and profit from it.  If you're a miner, I'm not sure if it's profitable for a newcomer to mine it.

[arielbit]

Edited my post to...

Dash was ninja mined by the dev himself.  I say good job to that.  Long term success sacrificed for short term gain.  That says a lot about the dev.

It could be good for you if you know how to trade and profit from it.  If you're a miner, I'm not sure if it's profitable for a newcomer to mine it.

tried to mine it march, 2014 it was too late LOL

[arielbit]

Dashcoin you say? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1020627.0

LOL! 

[tokeweed]

^ What's with the supply reduction?  And how can they do that in the middle of the game?  That's not good if you're trying to set up a 'currency'.  I mean...  wtf dude?

[arielbit]

^ What's with the supply reduction?  And how can they do that in the middle of the game?  That's not good if you're trying to set up a 'currency'.  I mean...  wtf dude?

supply reduction is 10000 to 1 ... your 10,000 coins becomes 1 ....distribution wise - nothing is altered.

the objective of supply reduction is not to reach 1 satoshi - that may kill the coin in the exchanges once it hits BTC-DSH trading.

[illodin]

Cool thread, haven't seen these matters discussed anywhere ever before. 

^ What's with the supply reduction?  And how can they do that in the middle of the game?  That's not good if you're trying to set up a 'currency'.  I mean...  wtf dude?

Apparently the users and miners approved as they followed the fork, so that's how "they can do that". There are already hundreds of coins that do things the orthodox way, you're welcome to choose those if Dash isn't to your liking.

[arielbit]

haha illodin(DASH story) and me(dashcoin story) both answered HAHA

I blame evan duffield for this confusion  

[smoothie]

^ What's with the supply reduction?  And how can they do that in the middle of the game?  That's not good if you're trying to set up a 'currency'.  I mean...  wtf dude?

Ninja-instamine wasn't enough he felt that lowering the overall supply of the coin a few weeks later was a better idea than just leaving it as how it started.

Real solid/Coinhunter of solidcoin did this and that guy is a well known scammer.

I suspect the same will come of Evan in the future.

[tokeweed]

The supply reduction would make it easier to sell all the ninja mined coins if you cynically think about it.  

[arielbit]

the ninja mined coins are placed in masternodes.

masternodes competes with gpu and cpu miners.

ninja mined coins in masternodes POS are the "mining farms of DASH"

[Minotaur26]

I am a bit skeptical of Dash, but I've been wrong before and I could be wrong about Dash. So, I have a question.
IIUC when Darkcoin/Dash was first released Evan Duffield told people that mining would start at a certain time. However (and again this is my understanding and I could be wrong), Evan then went and issued it early with the result that miners who had believed it would be released as he had said missed the early mining stage when many (?) coins were released/mined.

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

You have been misled, if you are interested in knowing more about the launch issues be sure to read this article:

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118


About all this discussion of the specific parameters that are required to be "crypto kosher" like if a crypto curreny project needs to follow a certain dogma, all I can say is reality trumps any preexisting ideas of what some people think a coin should be or how it should be managed.  Dash is intentionally disruptive and innovative. The goal is to produce a sustainable model for managing and growing a crypto currency and producing added value features for end users with a model that scales.

Historical snapshots from coinmarketcap are actually a great way to see reality. People were criticizing Dash just the same a year ago, but lets see what were the results of 2015.

This is a coinmarketcap.com snapshot of January 4th 2015




This is a coinmarketcap.com snapshot  December 30th 2015




That is the reality of things, Dash is the result of the effort of many volunteers and as a movement it will continue to grow and bring a new perspective to crypto.

Happy new year and the best for the coming year to everyone.

[arielbit]

I am a bit skeptical of Dash, but I've been wrong before and I could be wrong about Dash. So, I have a question.
IIUC when Darkcoin/Dash was first released Evan Duffield told people that mining would start at a certain time. However (and again this is my understanding and I could be wrong), Evan then went and issued it early with the result that miners who had believed it would be released as he had said missed the early mining stage when many (?) coins were released/mined.

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Sugar Coating Article

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

...and DASH price increases

ninja mined coins are not in circulation (in masternodes) and there was a supply reduction.... of course it will increase in price due to lack of supply

plus POS masternodes encourages locking coins because you earn interest...less coins in circulation, the rule of "supply and demand" follows.

[ridery99]

What you want to know? It's dead. Shitcoin 

[illodin]

ninja mined coins are not in circulation (in masternodes) and there was a supply reduction.... of course it will increase in price due to lack of supply

plus POS masternodes encourages locking coins because you earn interest...less coins in circulation, the rule of "supply and demand" follows.

Yes, Dash has a track record of making development decisions that make the coins people own more valuable.

When the next such development happens, I guess people who don't own any will moan about that too?

[generalizethis]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

[CjMapope]

And on the subject of evan's intentions let it be known it was found that he was recruiting for the project when it began on the premise of "making a for-profit cryptocurrency" specifically. he planned on dash making him rich, and it did.

[illodin]

And on the subject of evan's intentions let it be known it was found that he was recruiting for the project when it began on the premise of "making a for-profit cryptocurrency" specifically. he planned on dash making him rich, and it did.

Yeah it would've been a whole lot better if the plan was to lose money and make him poor.

[adhitthana]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

[generalizethis]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

I doubt it will ever get that far, but if it did, Wall Street media would have a field day grilling him on the instamine and the early launch.

[Minotaur26]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

If you are trying to think this through, maybe it would help to actually read his account of events here:

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

[adhitthana]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

If you are trying to think this through, maybe it would help to actually read his account of events here:

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Unfortunately that article doesn't deal with my questions.
That article just seems to be rather unsophisticated and amateurish promotional piece.

[Minotaur26]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

If you are trying to think this through, maybe it would help to actually read his account of events here:

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Unfortunately that article doesn't deal with my questions.
That article just seems to be rather unsophisticated and amateurish promotional piece.

If that does not please you, maybe the more sophisticated thing to do is wait a few years and see what happens.

[tokeweed]

Lol.  Now that's a way to end an argument...

[generalizethis]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

If you are trying to think this through, maybe it would help to actually read his account of events here:

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Unfortunately that article doesn't deal with my questions.
That article just seems to be rather unsophisticated and amateurish promotional piece.

If that does not please you, maybe the more sophisticated thing to do is wait a few years and see what happens.

I agree.

If you are planning on making an investment and those who represent the investment can't answer your questions directly and in a meaningful way, you should wait until the murk has cleared and you can ascertain whether the investment is on the up and up. That's what a sophisticated investor would do.

Now a noob on the other hand will give himself over to fear of missing out and invest too much, too quickly, and hope others will bail him out once the buyer's remorse sets in.

[Days]

May I add that you should ask questions you're self like I did when I invested into alt coins and to me Dash answers were very clear and the work been done in it is just crazy, Dash is getting big and noticed by all these BTC + crypto websites unlike any other coins because Dash team really works hard and the development is open for everyone to see.

Also notice people who attack it don't mention you the innovation DASH has brought to us and will never do so don't believe forum people as I did this mistake trading BTC in 2014 -,-.

[entertheabyss]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

I doubt it will ever get that far, but if it did, Wall Street media would have a field day grilling him on the instamine and the early launch.

Wallstreet is on board with any and all shady premine shit, just look at ripple. Its a nice thought though, wallstreet as a bastion of honest companies and hard working financial institutions with the interest of the common man at heart.

Intresting note, before Even started workong xcoin aka darkcoin aka dash, he was a stock broker.

Soon after that the 2008 crisis started and I had money in the markets. I became really interested in economics and ended up getting my series 65 license and starting a financial firm to sell my trading signals and manage money.

https://medium.com/@simon/the-bright-side-of-darkcoin-a923facddc3c
http://www.investopedia.com/professionals/series65/

x/dark/dash was never about privacy or instant transactions or distributed consensus, it was and continues to be about the bottom line, expect the dash team to do whatever is trendy and hip in the altcoin scene as they suck their way to the top of the foodchain

[smooth]

^ What's with the supply reduction?  And how can they do that in the middle of the game?  That's not good if you're trying to set up a 'currency'.  I mean...  wtf dude?

They just moved the decimal in how the amounts are displayed. It didn't really change anything in the underlying system.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure the original "supply reduction" question was about dashcoin supply reduction, but it does apply to Darkcoin/Dash as well. The two reductions were quite different though.

[toknormal]

x/dark/dash was never about privacy or instant transactions or distributed consensus

Oh really ?

I've been following this project for almost a year and a half now and as far as I can see that's ALL it's about. The dev team to little else than pursue those precise technical objectives to the exclusion of almost all other priorities.

Maybe you just haven't noticed.

[generalizethis]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

I doubt it will ever get that far, but if it did, Wall Street media would have a field day grilling him on the instamine and the early launch.

Wallstreet is on board with any and all shady premine shit, just look at ripple

Not sure Wall Street would consider it the same: a silicon valley production that is open and upfront about their premine versus some alt dev from Arizona with a shady beginning that he claims was an accident (at least the part he talks about).

Ripple has never tried to spin or skew what it is from Wall Street (despite the crypto community's dislike for what it is).

[smooth]

I am a bit skeptical of Dash, but I've been wrong before and I could be wrong about Dash. So, I have a question.
IIUC when Darkcoin/Dash was first released Evan Duffield told people that mining would start at a certain time. However (and again this is my understanding and I could be wrong), Evan then went and issued it early with the result that miners who had believed it would be released as he had said missed the early mining stage when many (?) coins were released/mined.

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

You have been misled

I don't think so.

if you are interested in knowing more about the launch issues be sure to read this article:

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Please provide a specific quote from that post where Evan explained why the launch happened within hours after Evan promised not to launch it within minutes/hours, and clearly caused at least one person (but more likely many) to miss the launch by several hours during which time a million or more coins were already mined.

Ok now it insta crashes when I type "setgenerate true".

Time to go to bed and try again next week?

Yeah, let's do that. I obviously need to do some more testing. Thanks everyone!

Best thing to do I guess. Please, confirm you won't be launching after some minutes/hours even if you fix it, and the sooner would be tomorrow, thanks.

Definitely not. I'll also follow up with this post when I do set a time.

Launch is being moved to 11PM EST!

... seriously?

Just woke up to this How many hours have I lost? Oh, well.  Time to git pull and launch it again.

[Days]

It is true once they see you succeed, they all come barking at you. Why don't you do some development instead of coming to forums? it is sad watching people hating because Dash doing something they couldn't even think of because IF they did they would already be having what Dash has instant transactions/Governance model/ two tier network, and more....really man do something instead of really just hating. I just invested on Dash and I already feeling the hate -,-

[generalizethis]

It is true once they see you succeed, they all come barking at you. Why don't you do some development instead of coming to forums? it is sad watching people hating because Dash doing something they couldn't even think of because IF they did they would already be having what Dash has instant transactions/Governance model/ two tier network, and more....really man do something instead of really just hating. I just invested on Dash and I already feeling the hate -,-

He asked a question about the early launch, and since the answer doesn't reflect well for dash, you are hand waving about jealousy and supposed innovations--honestly, I'd love to dig into dash's clumsy technology, but this hardly seems the time and place and there are plenty of threads that have outlined these failures, but I doubt you want to bring those issues to light.

[Days]

It is true once they see you succeed, they all come barking at you. Why don't you do some development instead of coming to forums? it is sad watching people hating because Dash doing something they couldn't even think of because IF they did they would already be having what Dash has instant transactions/Governance model/ two tier network, and more....really man do something instead of really just hating. I just invested on Dash and I already feeling the hate -,-

He asked a question about the early launch, and since the answer doesn't reflect well for dash, you are hand waving about jealousy and supposed innovations--honestly, I'd love to dig into dash's clumsy technology, but this hardly seems the time and place and there are plenty of threads that have outlined these failures, but I doubt you want to bring those issues to light.

I just don't get the hate, you obviously just don't like Dash and wish that Dash investors lose ALL their money so you can feel happy. But even if you say that I did my research and even asked questions and I knew about what's bad/good about Dash and Monero "since you support it and fanboying about it" at the end nor you or you're developers who are all about gambling with no development over a year here saying this coin is bad and that coin is bad...why don't you tell us why your'e great instead? what innovations have you created that I can actually compare you with Dash? and please just stop the hate i've seen you're history just now (•̀o•́)ง

[Macrochip]

why don't you tell us why your'e great instead? what innovations have you created that I can actually compare you with Dash?

He has nothing to show for. Zero. Zip. Nada. That's why he's pissed.
In the entire year of 2015 Monero has achieved... let me count.... umm... cleaning up the codebase.... umm.. oh yeah: NOTHING

Yeah. 365 days of zero achievement. Do I really have to list what Dash has achieved in 2015? How much time do you have?
Suffice it to say it revolutionized the entire fucking paradigm on how we govern cryptocurrency projects. Precisely the problem Bitcoin in its very foundation is facing this very moment. Solved. By Evan Duffield & Team. Go figure.

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

Yeah typical. Lying was always his strong suit. Never saw a single rational argument from him.
Anyway, since people nowadays can't even be bothered to click a fucking link, let me dish it out directly:

Launch

It was January 18, 2014 and I had everything ready or so I thought. I announced the launch of Darkcoin (XCoin at the time) on BitcoinTalk. We launched later and immediately got stuck on block 42, I was new to the Bitcoin codebase and wasn’t sure what I missed so I announced we’d relaunch later.

When we relaunched we had a rush of miners join causing a huge spike of coin production without it being able to adjust the difficulty quick enough, we just ended up spilling out coins. Retargeting happened every 576 blocks and could only increase the difficulty by four times, so it took about six retargets to get to a difficulty that was near 2.5 minutes per block.

Later on, after the difficulty evened out we realized that there was a serious problem with the block reward calculation. You can see people discussing the problems here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.120

I soon fixed this issue at block 4500, but none of us realized the amount of coins that had been issued at the time. At that point we didn’t even have a block explorer yet.

Source: The Birth of Darkcoin

Evan talks about the launch in this interview as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNZcO2vm7Jc&feature=youtu.be&t=791

Plus he made numerous statements about the launch in Q&As, other interviews and dozens of forum posts. That topic is the only (laughable) critic trolltards ever came up with for two years achieving nothing.
Oh yeah: Yelling "Dash is broken" all day without proving that it actually is doesn't make Dash look bad. It only makes you look like a complete idiot.

[generalizethis]

It is true once they see you succeed, they all come barking at you. Why don't you do some development instead of coming to forums? it is sad watching people hating because Dash doing something they couldn't even think of because IF they did they would already be having what Dash has instant transactions/Governance model/ two tier network, and more....really man do something instead of really just hating. I just invested on Dash and I already feeling the hate -,-

He asked a question about the early launch, and since the answer doesn't reflect well for dash, you are hand waving about jealousy and supposed innovations--honestly, I'd love to dig into dash's clumsy technology, but this hardly seems the time and place and there are plenty of threads that have outlined these failures, but I doubt you want to bring those issues to light.

I just don't get the hate, you obviously just don't like Dash and wish that Dash investors lose ALL their money so you can feel happy. But even if you say that I did my research and even asked questions and I knew about what's bad/good about Dash and Monero "since you support it and fanboying about it" at the end nor you or you're developers who are all about gambling with no development over a year here saying this coin is bad and that coin is bad...why don't you tell us why your'e great instead? what innovations have you created that I can actually compare you with Dash? and please just stop the hate i've seen you're history just now (•̀o•́)ง

Again, the OP asked a question, so no reason to hand wave and get it off topic. You can revisit the drk vs. xmr thread if you feel like you have a new comparison that benefits dash. You can also look at Monero speculation or the Monero ANN page or r/monero if you are looking for a discussion on Monero's innovations.

*Also, Macrochiponhisshoulders, did I really need to add that Evan never answered why he launched early in a satisfactorily way? "We launched later" doesn't qualify as to explaining why those who went to bed thinking there was a later launch got shafted by a impromptu launch.

[Macrochip]

Yeah stop pretending to care about OPs question when you just hijacked the opportunity to rant about Dash: The only purpose of this sock puppet account.


The question was fully answered by me and my quotations.

/thread

[Macrochip]

*Also, Macrochiponhisshoulders, did I really need to add that Evan never answered why he launched early in a satisfactorily way? "We launched later" doesn't qualify as to explaining why those who went to bed thinking there was a later launch got shafted by a impromptu launch.

a) Yes you have to. People don't read your lunatic mind.
b) "Satisfactory" is a bullshit excuse you just made up after being caught lying.
c) Evan doesn't owe you shit. He gave his viewpoint on the issue. Whether you're "satisfied" or not doesn't matter. Plus YOU don't decide what's "satisfactory" or not. People do it on their own just fine.

[generalizethis]

Yeah stop pretending to care about OPs question when you just hijacked the opportunity to rant about Dash: The only purpose of this sock puppet account.


The question was fully answered by me and my quotations.

/thread

Sigh. Again you can start a Monero versus dash thread if you want or raise the old one from the dead, but Evan's answer in your post doesn't answer why he launched in an impromptu manner robbing those who went to bed of the early mining opportunity. Reread what he said, "We launched later.." he then tries to explain the instamine. He never explains why people went to bed thinking the coin was relaunched without any formal announcement.

Maybe an explanation exists, but it's not in your quoted material.

[Macrochip]

Yeah stop pretending to care about OPs question when you just hijacked the opportunity to rant about Dash: The only purpose of this sock puppet account.


The question was fully answered by me and my quotations.

/thread

Sigh. Again you can start a Monero versus dash thread if you want or raise the old one from the dead, but Evan's answer in your post doesn't answer why he launched in an impromptu manner robbing those who went to bed of the early mining opportunity. Reread what he said, "We launched later.." he then tries to explain the instamine. He never explains why people went to bed thinking the coin was relaunched without any formal announcement.

Maybe an explanation exists, but it's not in your quoted material.

Holy shit.
Is that true?
A badly coordinated launch by someone with a non-crypto full-time job and some people were caught off guard?
Oh fuck!
How much coin did he and he alone steal from all those poor miners in those couple of hours as the sole miner?
Because nobody on the entire planet was awake at that moment, right?!
Dear God! This is the final nail in the coffin of Dash!
Screw all the technology the team created since then! The launch is holy and must be perfect!!! FUCK I'MA SELL RIGHT NOW!!!


Yep. That's what I would say if I was as obsessed and lunatic as the average XMR-troll.

TL;DR: Idgaf about that. Neither does any other sane person.

[generalizethis]

Yeah stop pretending to care about OPs question when you just hijacked the opportunity to rant about Dash: The only purpose of this sock puppet account.


The question was fully answered by me and my quotations.

/thread

Sigh. Again you can start a Monero versus dash thread if you want or raise the old one from the dead, but Evan's answer in your post doesn't answer why he launched in an impromptu manner robbing those who went to bed of the early mining opportunity. Reread what he said, "We launched later.." he then tries to explain the instamine. He never explains why people went to bed thinking the coin was relaunched without any formal announcement.

Maybe an explanation exists, but it's not in your quoted material.

Holy shit.
Is that true?
A badly coordinated launch and some people were caught off guard?
Oh fuck!
How much coin did he steal from all those poor miners in those couple of hours?
Dear God! This is the final nail in the coffin of Dash!
Screw all the technology the team created since then! The launch is holy and must be perfect!!! FUCK I'MA SELL RIGHT NOW!!!


Yep. That's what I would say if I was as obsessed and lunatic as the average XMR-troll.

TL;DR: Idgaf about that. Neither does any other sane person.

Again the questions were if the launch happened early (it did) and did Evan explain why it happened early (acknowledged, yes/explained, no). I'm hardly insane for knowing the subtle difference between explained and acknowledged. But good luck on your investment. 

[smooth]

Yeah stop pretending to care about OPs question when you just hijacked the opportunity to rant about Dash: The only purpose of this sock puppet account.


The question was fully answered by me and my quotations.

/thread

Sigh. Again you can start a Monero versus dash thread if you want or raise the old one from the dead, but Evan's answer in your post doesn't answer why he launched in an impromptu manner robbing those who went to bed of the early mining opportunity. Reread what he said, "We launched later.." he then tries to explain the instamine. He never explains why people went to bed thinking the coin was relaunched without any formal announcement.

Maybe an explanation exists, but it's not in your quoted material.

Holy shit.
Is that true?
A badly coordinated launch and some people were caught off guard?
Oh fuck!
How much coin did he steal from all those poor miners in those couple of hours?
Dear God! This is the final nail in the coffin of Dash!
Screw all the technology the team created since then! The launch is holy and must be perfect!!! FUCK I'MA SELL RIGHT NOW!!!


Yep. That's what I would say if I was as obsessed and lunatic as the average XMR-troll.

TL;DR: Idgaf about that. Neither does any other sane person.

Again the questions were if the launch happened early (it did) and did Evan explain why it happened early (acknowledged, yes/explained, no). I'm hardly insane for knowing the subtle difference between explained and acknowledged. But good luck on your investment. 

I don't even see where he "acknowledged" launching early. All he said is "when we relaunched" but nothing about timing at all.

[adhitthana]

It is true once they see you succeed, they all come barking at you. Why don't you do some development instead of coming to forums? it is sad watching people hating because Dash doing something they couldn't even think of because IF they did they would already be having what Dash has instant transactions/Governance model/ two tier network, and more....really man do something instead of really just hating. I just invested on Dash and I already feeling the hate -,-

He asked a question about the early launch, and since the answer doesn't reflect well for dash, you are hand waving about jealousy and supposed innovations--honestly, I'd love to dig into dash's clumsy technology, but this hardly seems the time and place and there are plenty of threads that have outlined these failures, but I doubt you want to bring those issues to light.

I just don't get the hate, you obviously just don't like Dash and wish that Dash investors lose ALL their money so you can feel happy. But even if you say that I did my research and even asked questions and I knew about what's bad/good about Dash and Monero "since you support it and fanboying about it" at the end nor you or you're developers who are all about gambling with no development over a year here saying this coin is bad and that coin is bad...why don't you tell us why your'e great instead? what innovations have you created that I can actually compare you with Dash? and please just stop the hate i've seen you're history just now (•̀o•́)ง

For me it's not about hate. It's about whether Dash might ever become widely used. I think that for a coin to ever become widely used it will have to be squeaky clean. But I could be wrong.

[adhitthana]

Yeah stop pretending to care about OPs question when you just hijacked the opportunity to rant about Dash: The only purpose of this sock puppet account.


The question was fully answered by me and my quotations.

/thread

I don't see where you answered my question.
What I am concerned about is this. Let's say Dash starts to become more popular and widely used. To the point where journalists and regulators look at it possibly. So as it getting more attention by this stage, people begin to ask about the early launch, and Evan at that point get's asked about it.
That could IMHO lead to problems

[generalizethis]

Yeah stop pretending to care about OPs question when you just hijacked the opportunity to rant about Dash: The only purpose of this sock puppet account.


The question was fully answered by me and my quotations.

/thread

Sigh. Again you can start a Monero versus dash thread if you want or raise the old one from the dead, but Evan's answer in your post doesn't answer why he launched in an impromptu manner robbing those who went to bed of the early mining opportunity. Reread what he said, "We launched later.." he then tries to explain the instamine. He never explains why people went to bed thinking the coin was relaunched without any formal announcement.

Maybe an explanation exists, but it's not in your quoted material.

Holy shit.
Is that true?
A badly coordinated launch and some people were caught off guard?
Oh fuck!
How much coin did he steal from all those poor miners in those couple of hours?
Dear God! This is the final nail in the coffin of Dash!
Screw all the technology the team created since then! The launch is holy and must be perfect!!! FUCK I'MA SELL RIGHT NOW!!!


Yep. That's what I would say if I was as obsessed and lunatic as the average XMR-troll.

TL;DR: Idgaf about that. Neither does any other sane person.

Again the questions were if the launch happened early (it did) and did Evan explain why it happened early (acknowledged, yes/explained, no). I'm hardly insane for knowing the subtle difference between explained and acknowledged. But good luck on your investment. 

I don't even see where he "acknowledged" launching early. All he said is "when we relaunched" but nothing about timing at all.

He acknowledges the failed first launch and then jumps to the relaunch. So in macrochip's quoted material,  he did fail to even acknowledge that it was early. Wonder if the timing of the relaunch has ever come up to him before? Can't imagine it hasn't. Wasn't there an Illodin post addressing this right after the fact?

[Macrochip]

I don't see where you answered my question.
What I am concerned about is this. Let's say Dash starts to become more popular and widely used. To the point where journalists and regulators look at it possibly. So as it getting more attention by this stage, people begin to ask about the early launch, and Evan at that point get's asked about it.
That could IMHO lead to problems

You claim the imperfect launch is going to get Dash into trouble? Why?
For what reason? Why the fuck would that have any impact? The only thing that's worth a damn is whether the proposed features work or not.

InstantX works
But the launch wasn't perfect!
DarkSend works
But the launch wasn't perfect!
Masternodes work
But the launch wasn't perfect!
Decentralized Governance works
But the launch wasn't yada yada yada....

How does the launch time have any impact on those features?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous this whole topic is?

In conclusion:
Your question is answered by common sense: It doesn't matter.

PS:
And if common sense is to you "hand waving" generalizethis, I must rightfully doubt your sanity, no matter what you say.

[generalizethis]

I don't see where you answered my question.
What I am concerned about is this. Let's say Dash starts to become more popular and widely used. To the point where journalists and regulators look at it possibly. So as it getting more attention by this stage, people begin to ask about the early launch, and Evan at that point get's asked about it.
That could IMHO lead to problems

You claim the imperfect launch is going to get Dash into trouble? Why?
For what reason? Why the fuck would that have any impact? The only thing that's worth a damn is whether the proposed features work or not.

InstantX works
But the launch wasn't perfect!
DarkSend works
But the launch wasn't perfect!
Masternodes work
But the launch wasn't perfect!
Decentralized Governance works
But the launch wasn't yada yada yada....

How does the launch time have any impact on those features?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous this whole topic is?

In conclusion:
Your question is answered by common sense: It doesn't matter.

PS:
And if common sense is to you "hand waving" generalizethis, I must rightfully doubt your sanity, no matter what you say.

Some of those things on your list are flawed and/or don't work very well and illustrates that trusting someone with shady credibility will lead to faulty presumptions about the product (especially in technology). The OP believes people will think the strangely timed launch is an issue, you don't--why make a big deal about it if you truly believe you are correct; the market will agree with you.

[Macrochip]

Some of those things on your list are flawed and/or don't work very well

LOL. "Some". Nice choice of words.
ONE feature of Dash, namely DarkSend is being criticized for taking too long to mix. Big whoop! I'd rather wait to mix my coins, than risk being retroactively deanonymized like XMR is being in danger of.
Besides DarkSend is going to be integrated into Dash Evolution anyway, which makes every transaction anonymous by default.

So again: What is "flawed"? Incentivized nodes which Evan Duffield invented? InstantX which Evan Duffield invented? Decentralized Governance by Blockchain which Evan Duffield invented?
I trust a developer that has constantly delivered on his feature promises for almost two years. What does your dev team have to show for? Name a single innovation of Monero besides cloning a scam-coin.

[tokeweed]

Why did Even Dunfield had to ninja mine it?

[PoS]

Dash is a certified instamined scam with a intentional failed release to get rid of every miner waiting to get in on announced release.

[smoothie]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

If you are trying to think this through, maybe it would help to actually read his account of events here:

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Why should anyone take what Evan says as truth when he has been caught lying several times?

[tokeweed]

Is this correct, or have I been misled?

If it is correct , did Evan Duffield ever explain why, the release time was moved?

Yes, this is correct.

And no, he never explained the early launch.

I'm just trying to think through what might happen if Dash ever tried to become well known or widely used. I imagine if it ever started to become widely used Evan would have to explain what went on

If you are trying to think this through, maybe it would help to actually read his account of events here:

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Why should anyone take what Evan says as truth when he has been caught lying several times?

Because we the crowd are stupid.  I can see Evan laughing at this comment.

[smoothie]

It is true once they see you succeed, they all come barking at you. Why don't you do some development instead of coming to forums? it is sad watching people hating because Dash doing something they couldn't even think of because IF they did they would already be having what Dash has instant transactions/Governance model/ two tier network, and more....really man do something instead of really just hating. I just invested on Dash and I already feeling the hate -,-

He asked a question about the early launch, and since the answer doesn't reflect well for dash, you are hand waving about jealousy and supposed innovations--honestly, I'd love to dig into dash's clumsy technology, but this hardly seems the time and place and there are plenty of threads that have outlined these failures, but I doubt you want to bring those issues to light.

I just don't get the hate, you obviously just don't like Dash and wish that Dash investors lose ALL their money so you can feel happy. But even if you say that I did my research and even asked questions and I knew about what's bad/good about Dash and Monero "since you support it and fanboying about it" at the end nor you or you're developers who are all about gambling with no development over a year here saying this coin is bad and that coin is bad...why don't you tell us why your'e great instead? what innovations have you created that I can actually compare you with Dash? and please just stop the hate i've seen you're history just now (•̀o•́)ง

How is it obvious that he wants dash investors to lose their money?

You are once again hand waving to distract from the issue at hand.

Ever think he is not for people losing money in dash and instead is wanting to out the truth of the shadiness or dash and its developer and their past for current and future investors not to make decisions based on lies?

[smoothie]

Yeah stop pretending to care about OPs question when you just hijacked the opportunity to rant about Dash: The only purpose of this sock puppet account.


The question was fully answered by me and my quotations.

/thread

You appear to be really butthurt.

Instead of addressing the issue directly without hand waving you resort then to subtle personal attacks and putting words into people's mouths (or hinting at motivations with no proof).

 

[smooth]

constantly delivered on his feature promises for almost two years

That's not even true, as I know there was a list of at least three features he promised and did not deliver that was posted on the Dash thread. The response was that he decided to change the priorities/direction of development, which by itself is probably reasonable except that it does not equate to having constantly delivered on his feature promises.

Anyway, that is off topic to this thread, which is about the release/launch. Feel free to create another thread about the feature promises of Dash and maybe people will want to discuss it.

[smoothie]

I don't see where you answered my question.
What I am concerned about is this. Let's say Dash starts to become more popular and widely used. To the point where journalists and regulators look at it possibly. So as it getting more attention by this stage, people begin to ask about the early launch, and Evan at that point get's asked about it.
That could IMHO lead to problems

You claim the imperfect launch is going to get Dash into trouble? Why?
For what reason? Why the fuck would that have any impact? The only thing that's worth a damn is whether the proposed features work or not.

InstantX works
But the launch wasn't perfect!
DarkSend works
But the launch wasn't perfect!
Masternodes work
But the launch wasn't perfect!
Decentralized Governance works
But the launch wasn't yada yada yada....

How does the launch time have any impact on those features?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous this whole topic is?

In conclusion:
Your question is answered by common sense: It doesn't matter.

PS:
And if common sense is to you "hand waving" generalizethis, I must rightfully doubt your sanity, no matter what you say.

It would have an effect because your own developer mislead people who were waiting for the launch into believing that the launch time was much later than he actually did launch it.

You can remove the the cuss words at any time because it shows your emotions are possibly getting the best of you when answering a completely neutral party who has just an honest question to ask.

[arielbit]

ninja mined coins are not in circulation (in masternodes) and there was a supply reduction.... of course it will increase in price due to lack of supply

plus POS masternodes encourages locking coins because you earn interest...less coins in circulation, the rule of "supply and demand" follows.

Yes, Dash has a track record of making development decisions that make the coins people own more valuable.

When the next such development happens, I guess people who don't own any will moan about that too?

i was talking about the supply manipulation not development    ....nice twist btw haha

[adhitthana]

I don't see where you answered my question.
What I am concerned about is this. Let's say Dash starts to become more popular and widely used. To the point where journalists and regulators look at it possibly. So as it getting more attention by this stage, people begin to ask about the early launch, and Evan at that point get's asked about it.
That could IMHO lead to problems

You claim the imperfect launch is going to get Dash into trouble? Why?

No, I said it might be a problem. Which is why I am trying ascertain whether Evan ever explained it

For what reason? Why the fuck would that have any impact? The only thing that's worth a damn is whether the proposed features work or not.

People might not like the idea that Evan appeared to have misled people. IIUC, he told people he would launch at a certain time, but then launched it earlier, and during that time a massive amount of coins were mined.

It just could look bad and make people or regulators avoid Dash, if the project ever starts to take off.

If the proposed features are open source then anyone can copy them, so that may not be such a huge advantage.

[toknormal]

A mew thread about Dash's launch ?

How quaint.  

[adhitthana]

A mew thread about Dash's launch ?

How quaint.  

Well it is just really about one aspect. And from the replies here it seems there was never any acknowledgement or explanation. So we might as well clear it up.
I would like to clear it up anyway so that I can better ascertain dash's prospects, and any risks that may be there

[ArticMine]

A mew thread about Dash's launch ?

How quaint.  

Yes. Another pointless thread on the Dash instamine issue. Dash has way more serious design issues on many levels that make the whole instamine insignificant by comparison. A proper discussion on the technical, regulatory and economic issues that Dash has is far more relevant and useful than this endless instamine debate.

[adhitthana]

A mew thread about Dash's launch ?

How quaint.  

Yes. Another pointless thread on the Dash instamine issue. Dash has way more serious design issues on many levels that make the whole instamine insignificant by comparison.

Where are they being discussed?

A proper discussion on the technical, regulatory and economic issues that Dash has is far more relevant and useful than this endless instamine debate.

I was assuming that Evan Duffield had at some point provided an explanation for this as it has been pointed out before. It seems a good question to ask.

[Days]

Why like 99% who talks about Dash are guys from Monero including a developer? (҂⌣̀_⌣́)

I never cared why Monero developers did a shady launch either and somehow the old crew just left and we have a new group who did not do much since Monero came beside bug fixing. (•̀o•́)ง

It just makes you all look like a certified A class haters really; because you are not competing with technology nor innovation...you are really just hating here on forums on the project and Evan himself.

Go fill Monero Ann thread with new updates at least the developers who are like everywhere " one is a gambler, one is hating on forums about another developer, another is in France with some issue....NO SYNC between all of them" None is working on Monero project it seems that is why it's taking you over a year man. Get things done please I already invested on Monero as well but man should I sell while it makes sense to me to just sell now?

Anyway, I came here like a month ago and I already regretting it, can't handle to much hate feels like internet drama here is getting on a personal level. (҂⌣̀_⌣́)

[generalizethis]

A mew thread about Dash's launch ?

How quaint.  

Yes. Another pointless thread on the Dash instamine issue. Dash has way more serious design issues on many levels that make the whole instamine insignificant by comparison.

Where are they being discussed?

A proper discussion on the technical, regulatory and economic issues that Dash has is far more relevant and useful than this endless instamine debate.

I was assuming that Evan Duffield had at some point provided an explanation for this as it has been pointed out before. It seems a good question to ask.

Here's TPTB_need_war's post that sums up the deficiencies in instantx and their privacy model (even with evolution's promises). AFAIK Evan has yet to respond.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13293657#msg13293657

Funny thing is I wasn't going to post this, but seeing days attack the attacker post made it a non-decision.

[ArticMine]

...

Here's TPTB_need_war's post that sums up the deficiencies in instantx and their privacy model (even with evolution's promises). AFAIK Evan has yet to respond.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13293657#msg13293657

Funny thing is I wasn't going to post this, but seeing days attack the attacker post made it a non-decision.

This is the kind of technical discussion about Dash that is needed. What TPTB_need_war is discussing there is the incorrect application of the Binomial Theorem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_theorem. How this can be construed as "hate" is beyond me. As for developers from other coins raising these issues it is hardly surprising, since highly technically competent people would naturally raise what they see as basic errors.

[oblox]

If Dash really is flawed and vulnerable, it should be easy to raise the funds to attack it while it is, by all accounts, young. Why wait for a juggernaut to get even larger... if anything, prove the flaws and in theory, crush the desire to hold it. There are countless rehashed arguments about the launch and masternodes and this and that. If you don't like the history, don't buy the coins. If you just heard about the launch (which is impressive given that it's now nearly 2 years old) and are displeased or feel betrayed, sell your coins. It's exhausting hearing the same shit over and over again. Masternodes, IX, blockchain voting, DS, etc all didn't exist for months after the initial launch.

[adhitthana]

Just to be clear. If Evan released early so he or others could instamine or just mine early and some people missed out, I don't necessarily think Evan did anything wrong. What I'm concerned about is that it may come up as an issue at some point in the future and negatively impact the project

[adhitthana]

If Dash really is flawed and vulnerable, it should be easy to raise the funds to attack it while it is, by all accounts, young. Why wait for a juggernaut to get even larger... if anything, prove the flaws and in theory, crush the desire to hold it.

Why?

If you don't like the history, don't buy the coins.

But if I don't ask questions how will I know the history?
I actually thought that when I asked the question someone would just point me to where Evan had explained the early release.

[entertheabyss]

x/dark/dash was never about privacy or instant transactions or distributed consensus

Oh really ?

I've been following this project for almost a year and a half now and as far as I can see that's ALL it's about. The dev team to little else than pursue those precise technical objectives to the exclusion of almost all other priorities.

Maybe you just haven't noticed.

There are people that care about some ideological principle and there are people that care about making money. Dash devs fall into the later category. That is not to say that they are unable to make valuable contributions, but for edduffield its a means to an end. Ive been on this forum on and off since 2013 and i remember when the whole instamine thing happened, i remember the first darkcoin testnets and i also recall distinctly when Evan announced that he was reducing supply from 84mil to whatever it is now. This specific action was pretty fucked up and points to the crux of my criticism of dash.

That is not to say that it wont be successful, lots of successful bullshit in the world a lot less principled than the dash community. I support dash trading on my exchange.

[generalizethis]

If Dash really is flawed and vulnerable, it should be easy to raise the funds to attack it while it is, by all accounts, young. Why wait for a juggernaut to get even larger... if anything, prove the flaws and in theory, crush the desire to hold it. There are countless rehashed arguments about the launch and masternodes and this and that. If you don't like the history, don't buy the coins. If you just heard about the launch (which is impressive given that it's now nearly 2 years old) and are displeased or feel betrayed, sell your coins. It's exhausting hearing the same shit over and over again. Masternodes, IX, blockchain voting, DS, etc all didn't exist for months after the initial launch.

Why would it be easy to raise the funds to attack dash? Is there a bounty? Is it substantial enough to pique people's interest? My guess is that it would have to be in the 5 to 6 figure range to adequately motivate an attacker (this is only guess). I'm a theoretical thinker, so I don't need bad things to happen before I see a bad outcome. My guess is that many in the Dash community aren't and will have to see the ship sunk to realize the ship was badly designed.

[arielbit]

If Dash really is flawed and vulnerable, it should be easy to raise the funds to attack it while it is, by all accounts, young. Why wait for a juggernaut to get even larger... if anything, prove the flaws and in theory, crush the desire to hold it. There are countless rehashed arguments about the launch and masternodes and this and that. If you don't like the history, don't buy the coins. If you just heard about the launch (which is impressive given that it's now nearly 2 years old) and are displeased or feel betrayed, sell your coins. It's exhausting hearing the same shit over and over again. Masternodes, IX, blockchain voting, DS, etc all didn't exist for months after the initial launch.

it is only a month after launch but eduffield already have plans for his instamine...i think he have that plan much earlier, before he posted.

In reply to: http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/1yit1a/using_coinjoin_for_anonymity_is_errorprone/

I'm posting this here, for everyone's benefit. Thanks!

Hi, I am Gnosis, the Anoncoin developer working on implementing Zerocoin. First of all, I think it is excellent that there is so much interest in developing a fully anonymous currency. I am not just a developer but also a user, or I will be when an anonymous currency exists! When coin creators compete, the coin users win!
However, CoinJoin has been around for a while, and it has not seen much use for anonymity. There's a good reason for that: it's not very anonymous.
Quoting my bitcointalk post:

CoinJoin has questionable anonymity compared to Zerocoin. The reason is that with CoinJoin, two or more users must somehow partner up and forge a transaction together. They communicate over a secure channel to do this. The coins are only mixed among these "partners." Picking partners you can trust is a significant obstacle: how can you know that your partners will "forget" the mixing that happened? One may try to repeat this 10 times with randomly chosen partners, but how can you know that your partners are not all just sock puppets of one malicious entity (on an anonymous network, it is trivial to create as many fake users as you want )? If that is the case, then your efforts are in vain.
Compare this with Zerocoin, where you put your coins in an accumulator, and they are mixed with the coins of all users who have put coins into that accumulator, since the beginning of Zerocoin. There would be a different accumulator for different denominations of Anoncoins (1, 5, 10, 50 ANC, etc.).
To put it simply, the more users' coins your coins are mixed with, the more anonymity you have.
I cannot speak to Darkcoin's implementation (or planned implementation) of CoinJoin since I cannot seem to find any specs or code on their Github or their site. If anyone knows, please point me to them.

I look forward to a practical and secure solution for anonymity from the DarkCoin devs!

First off, these are fantastic questions. The answer to implementing this in such a way where it is very difficulty to exploit is by adding cost and verification.

Here’s the gist of how I envision DarkSend to work in the long run. Some of what I’m going to mention is done, some of it I’m working on currently. I’d love some ideas on possible attack vectors on my implementation, so we can make it as bulletproof as possible.

Pools

DarkSend adds various extensions to the Bitcoin protocol for implementing transaction pooling. Like normal Coinjoin the pools take transactions in stages. The stages currently are:

POOL_STATUS_IDLE
POOL_STATUS_ACCEPTING_INPUTS
POOL_STATUS_ACCEPTING_OUTPUTS
POOL_STATUS_SIGNING
POOL_STATUS_TRANSMISSION

So the users relay these items throughout the network as the stages happen. After all items are gathered into the pool, the transactions are merged together into one, remotely signed and then broadcasted.

Masters

To defeat propagation problems, master nodes are elected each new block. They are responsible for being the authority of what goes into the joined transaction each session. This is done in a tamperproof way, but I think it’s not important to the discussion.

So what is the cost?

There must be a cost to using this anonymous network, otherwise like you say there will be issues with millions of accounts popping up. I’m not dead set on which solution(s) to implement, but here’s a couple ideas:

Burnt Identities

Higher difficulty shares to the current block would be mined and then stored in the blockchain permanently. Multiple of these would be used for each transaction and would be “burnt” when misused, causing the attacker to have to mine them again.  

Verification?

To use the pools it will require unique unspend outputs, someone that wants to mess with the system would have to have a large pool of funds in many addresses. So to attack a pool with 100 slots, you would require funds dispersed to 99 addresses, on 99 nodes working in common.

Other possible fee-less solutions?

There is interesting research on protecting against sybil attacks that lends itself really well to a decentralized ledger, such as this paper:

http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/InformationSecurity/slides/gamesandreputation.pdf

The idea is to build a social graph of the inputs and outputs of each entry and they should all know different people. If 99 of them all have the same “friends” that they associate with, then they’ll have to enter a different pool. Which will ensure the pool is not full of the nodes belonging to the attacker.

An application for machine learning?

I’m been making models for trading equities for over 7 years now. I ran a financial firm that sold the signals for a few years and I have experience with natural language processing using classifiers. So, I could make a classifier and actually embed it into Darkcoin to determine which pool a node should use, to separate out nodes that seem to be in common.

Other ideas?

I’m open to ideas on how to provide the best security to the network. I would love to hear what people have in mind.

I’ve been working on DarkSend about a month and we’ve already fixed the decentralization and propagation issues, this is just another bridge to cross in the future.

Thanks!

[smooth]

Masternodes, IX, blockchain voting, DS, etc all didn't exist for months after the initial launch.

it is only a month but eduffield already have plans for his instamine

It didn't take a month. The plans were already in place before the instamine. Read the bold carefully.

Great, now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones! Time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do.

[arielbit]

having said that masternodes are the "mining farms" of DASH

comparing DASH to Bitcoin.. Bitcoin mining farms existed years later on...while "DASH mining farm/s"(masternodes) existed since the instamine happened.

[arielbit]

smooth pointed it out...It was planned all along  

Masters

To defeat propagation problems, master nodes are elected each new block. They are responsible for being the authority of what goes into the joined transaction each session. This is done in a tamperproof way, but I think it’s not important to the discussion.

connected

Great, now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones! Time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do.

Great indeeeeed $$$$$$$$$$

[target]

Why like 99% who talks about Dash are guys from Monero including a developer? (҂⌣̀_⌣́)

I never cared why Monero developers did a shady launch either and somehow the old crew just left and we have a new group who did not do much since Monero came beside bug fixing. (•̀o•́)ง

It just makes you all look like a certified A class haters really; because you are not competing with technology nor innovation...you are really just hating here on forums on the project and Evan himself.

Go fill Monero Ann thread with new updates at least the developers who are like everywhere " one is a gambler, one is hating on forums about another developer, another is in France with some issue....NO SYNC between all of them" None is working on Monero project it seems that is why it's taking you over a year man. Get things done please I already invested on Monero as well but man should I sell while it makes sense to me to just sell now?

Anyway, I came here like a month ago and I already regretting it, can't handle to much hate feels like internet drama here is getting on a personal level. (҂⌣̀_⌣́)

the drama actually helps the forum going. just sit back and take your localry popcorn.

[Yatsida]

Dash was ninja mined by the dev himself.  I say good job to that.

Obviously it's good for them, but is it good for me?

That is the reason many people do not touch Dash. Otherwise it could be a successful anonymous coin.

[smoothie]

Just to be clear. If Evan released early so he or others could instamine or just mine early and some people missed out, I don't necessarily think Evan did anything wrong. What I'm concerned about is that it may come up as an issue at some point in the future and negatively impact the project

Are you saying that Evan misleading people to think he would launch later than he actually did is okay?

Meaning he basically lied to people from the launch?

[smooth]

Just to be clear. If Evan released early so he or others could instamine or just mine early and some people missed out, I don't necessarily think Evan did anything wrong. What I'm concerned about is that it may come up as an issue at some point in the future and negatively impact the project

Are you saying that Evan misleading people to think he would launch later than he actually did is okay?

Meaning he basically lied to people from the launch?

adhitthana is entitled to his own value system. All's fair in love and crypto is somewhat understandable. Even if he does think it was okay to lie about the launch, withhold the development plans until after instamining it, etc., he's being smart in recognizing that not everyone will see it that way, and that affects the prospects going forward.

[smoothie]

smooth pointed it out...It was planned all along  

Masters

To defeat propagation problems, master nodes are elected each new block. They are responsible for being the authority of what goes into the joined transaction each session. This is done in a tamperproof way, but I think it’s not important to the discussion.

connected

Great, now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones! Time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do.

Great indeeeeed $$$$$$$$$$

Let me add this to this compilation:

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2013-December/003964.html

Evan Duffield eduffield82 at gmail.com
Sun Dec 29 18:53:19 UTC 2013
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Hello,

We’re a startup looking for 1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is
familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup.

We will be able to provide more information about the project after signing
a non-compete/non-disclosure agreement. Our coin will be one of the truly
unique coins that are not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code. In
short the project will be a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very
useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem.

If you have added any features to Bitcoin or related technologies this is a
definite bonus. Please include information about the work you’re done in
the space.

We have detailed plans on how to implement it and the roles we are looking
to fill. If interested please email eduffield82 at gmail.com with a
description of your work experience and we’ll vett the applications and
share our plans to see if you’re interested.

Thanks,

Evan & Kyle
Hawk Financial Group, LLC

[smooth]

for-profit startup ... Our coin will be ... We have detailed plans on how to implement it and the roles we are looking to fill.

"I was working with Dash as a hobby"

Doesn't add up.

[smoothie]

for-profit startup ... Our coin will be ... We have detailed plans on how to implement it and the roles we are looking to fill.

"I was working with Dash as a hobby"

Doesn't add up.

Of course Evan will likely never want to discuss his DOUBLE SPEAK much like how he ran away from Anonymint's retort which ripped him a new asshole.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

What you want to know? It's dead. Shitcoin 

Good, glad someone said it here.  It's an altcoin that doesn't have any advantages that make it any more useful than the hundreds of other shitcoins on the market right now.  I played with DASH faucets for a while with the DASH wallet on my android, and it was just another crappy coin to me and I stopped. 

Avoid like plague.

[adhitthana]

Just to be clear. If Evan released early so he or others could instamine or just mine early and some people missed out, I don't necessarily think Evan did anything wrong. What I'm concerned about is that it may come up as an issue at some point in the future and negatively impact the project

Are you saying that Evan misleading people to think he would launch later than he actually did is okay?

Meaning he basically lied to people from the launch?

Without hearing Evan's side of the story I don't know what to think.
But again my concern is not that he did something wrong but that at some point in the future these events might impact negatively on Dash.

[adhitthana]

Just to be clear. If Evan released early so he or others could instamine or just mine early and some people missed out, I don't necessarily think Evan did anything wrong. What I'm concerned about is that it may come up as an issue at some point in the future and negatively impact the project

Are you saying that Evan misleading people to think he would launch later than he actually did is okay?

Meaning he basically lied to people from the launch?

adhitthana is entitled to his own value system. All's fair in love and crypto is somewhat understandable. Even if he does think it was okay to lie about the launch, withhold the development plans until after instamining it, etc., he's being smart in recognizing that not everyone will see it that way, and that affects the prospects going forward.

Even if he did deliberately mislead (and I'm not saying he even did that) I would not necessarily condemn him. In his shoes I may have done the same.
But it may look bad if Dash ever starts to attract serious attention.  

[smooth]

but that at some point in the future these events might impact negatively on Dash.

Look, the events and/or the appearance of the events already do impact negatively on it, and that will never change.

You can't take forum posts from random people like this one

That is the reason many people do not touch Dash. Otherwise it could be a successful anonymous coin.

at face value, but it is representative of how the brand is severely tarnished. When you have people like Charlie Lee, who is very prominent in the community, generally very well respected, and who does a lot speaking appearances, talking about how important it is for a coin to be launched in a fair manner and how the instamine holds Dash back, there can't be any question that the perception does matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1h_UZLhYsQ&t=1804

[arielbit]

let me add why honesty is important to any coin, honesty breeds trust, aside from technical mambo jumbos, trust is a major pillar in crypto currency because it isn't backed by any government, gold, or institution/s.

[smoothie]

let me add why honesty is important to any coin, honesty breeds trust, aside from technical mambo jumbos, trust is a major pillar in crypto currency because it isn't backed by any government, gold, or institution/s.

Many dash proponents appear to think that


Profits > Honesty

[arielbit]

let me add why honesty is important to any coin, honesty breeds trust, aside from technical mambo jumbos, trust is a major pillar in crypto currency because it isn't backed by any government, gold, or institution/s.

Many dash proponents appear to think that


Profits > Honesty

but be wary, these dash proponents twist it like this...

communism = fair launch.

capitalism = instamine that helped and incentivized  the development of dash.

this is not an issue about communism and capitalism...it is a simple issue of honesty.

[PoS]

for-profit startup ... Our coin will be ... We have detailed plans on how to implement it and the roles we are looking to fill.

"I was working with Dash as a hobby"

Doesn't add up.

Evan has proven time and time again that he is a lying scam artist.
Serious money will never support this crap co(i)n, no reason to. It's like thinking Nigerian spam mail will be everyon's choice, other than the few proponents.

[dnaleor]

adhitthana, I guess this summary of the early DASH history will interest you. It provides you with all the answers to your questions. All sources are included.
When you read it, you'll be surprised to find out DASH actually started in 2013 in stead of 2014:

The official story about the instamine: https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118
Evan Duffield:“The instamine happened, there is no one disputing that fact. The crypto-community at large has no problem with this except a few who think it’s trying to be hidden in some way. In fact, I posted multiple times about the instamine, first in “The Birth Of Darkcoin” which is an account of the first few weeks of the launch and the mistakes that were made. Recently I also posted spoke about the Instamine in the video “Virtual Corporation”, which considers the concept that it might have been key to Dash’s success, which I believe now. It’s also important to note, I was working a very challenging day job while working on Dash in the first couple weeks. So I was putting out fires every night, keeping tabs on Dash during the day (while getting yelled at by my boss when he caught me a couple times). Eventually I quit when I got Dash stable enough to work on full time and decided I really wanted to explore what I could do with it. “

----------------------------------------------------

The evidence shows that it was a planned instamine. This wasn't mentioned before launch.
The features of this coin were also not public at launch.
=> Nobody was really interested in the coin at launch, making this instamine more a kind of "stealth launched premine".
In my books, that's a scam.

Please don't ignore the facts:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the windows binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

Xcoin rebranded to Darkcoin and eventually to DASH later on.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

How can this be all an accident (like Evan is always saying) and NOT be intentional?

FACT:
>Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
QUESTION:
>How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
ANSWER:
>by intentionally premining and/or instamining.

How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)