btt

[creativex]

This creepy post and a couple others have created a flurry of controversy on Avalon's thread:

I'm not imposing anything. A demonstration will come by a customer very soon, if you wish to wait until then, go ahead; but you then run into the risk of not making into batch #2, and where if I don't open orders now, I run into the issue not able to order parts before CNY, which has a pretty long lead time.

It seems there'll be no demos, no 3rd party reviews, not even any tracking numbers to confirm product shipment prior to batch #2 opening(...and presumably selling out).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137534.720

[usagi]

This creepy post and a couple others have created a flurry of controversy on Avalon's thread:

I'm not imposing anything. A demonstration will come by a customer very soon, if you wish to wait until then, go ahead; but you then run into the risk of not making into batch #2, and where if I don't open orders now, I run into the issue not able to order parts before CNY, which has a pretty long lead time.

It seems there'll be no demos, no 3rd party reviews, not even any tracking numbers to confirm product shipment prior to batch #2 opening(...and presumably selling out).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137534.720

*frown*

...to put things in perspective we have cleaned the market of some certain parts like resistors and capacitors. We have to order directly from factories now, mountain of work to do.

I'm not sure this makes sense. There is so much oversupply in this market I doubt they could "clean the market" if they built a million units.

A month.

To "put things in perspective" there is still a supply of vaccum tubes from the 20s available for guitar players and their amps. They're a little expensive but they are there. ex. tubeworld.com which states "Our inventory consists mainly of tubes manufactured from the 1920's until the 1980's by the best manufacturers and name brands." If they're saying they are short on resistors and capacitors I think something is not right.

[creativex]

Agreed, this is very peculiar. The scarce components have been changed from resistors and capacitors to inductors(coils) and mosfets(transistors), but this just brings up more questions. Such as:

How did he confuse these components? What's rare about inductors & mosfets?
How did they not see this supply shortage previously? CNY dates are not a secret nor is batch #2's shipping date.

A demonstration will come by a customer very soon, if you wish to wait until then, go ahead; but you then run into the risk of not making into batch #2

This reminds me of poor business practice or successful poker play. Force your opponents to make uncomfortable decisions.

 

[gabbynot]

A demonstration will come by a customer very soon, if you wish to wait until then, go ahead; but you then run into the risk of not making into batch #2

That one line just screams "scam".

[creativex]

A demonstration will come by a customer very soon, if you wish to wait until then, go ahead; but you then run into the risk of not making into batch #2

That one line just screams "scam".

Yep, I can't get past it. I'm glad he said it as it makes it easy for me to sit on my hands if/when their 2nd batch order window opens. I cannot send them funds if those are the conditions.

[creativex]

I received the company's second 7770 yesterday and set it to work mining so we'll see some additional profit from it today. Hash rate is presently just shy of 2100, but I believe I can squeeze a bit more out of our GPUs at least while the cold weather holds.               

[creativex]

Given the flurry of events that have transpired in the last few hours and the detailed(& favorable) information provided by Jeff Garzik about the Avalon unit he received I'm re-evaluating the possibility of placing an order for batch 2 unit(s). As there's not enough time for a motion to pass with majority shareholder approval, I'd like to hear some alternative perspectives from shareholders to aid me in my decision.

I've spoken to several shareholders privately about ASIC vendor choices and Avalon specifically so I have an idea how some will view this decision, but I'd like to hear more in the brief time allowed us before their order window closes.

http://garzikrants.blogspot.se/
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/working-avalon-asic-confirmed/

[Deprived]

Given the flurry of events that have transpired in the last few hours and the detailed(& favorable) information provided by Jeff Garzik about the Avalon unit he received I'm re-evaluating the possibility of placing an order for batch 2 unit(s). As there's not enough time for a motion to pass with majority shareholder approval, I'd like to hear some alternative perspectives from shareholders to aid me in my decision.

I've spoken to several shareholders privately about ASIC vendor choices and Avalon specifically so I have an idea how some will view this decision, but I'd like to hear more in the brief time allowed us before their order window closes.

http://garzikrants.blogspot.se/
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/working-avalon-asic-confirmed/

I'm a shareholder from time to time

I'd advise being cautious with Avalon - their desperation for fast cash suggests they're having some serious issues.  Whilst it's obviously not a scam as such, I'd want to see more than a few of them arrived before assuming they're actually in a position to guarantee a steady stream of them.

It may just be as simple as they wanted to pretend to meet their shipping date - and only had a few actually ready by then but pretended they were ready to start shipping whole-sale.  Or it could be far worse - e.g. serious yield issues meaning they need cash to run another batch of chips off just to meet batch 1 commitments.

Something still smells very wrong with it - but it could be nothing more than bad PR/communications combined with stretching the truth on the state of their assembly line.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Given the flurry of events that have transpired in the last few hours and the detailed(& favorable) information provided by Jeff Garzik about the Avalon unit he received I'm re-evaluating the possibility of placing an order for batch 2 unit(s). As there's not enough time for a motion to pass with majority shareholder approval, I'd like to hear some alternative perspectives from shareholders to aid me in my decision.

I've spoken to several shareholders privately about ASIC vendor choices and Avalon specifically so I have an idea how some will view this decision, but I'd like to hear more in the brief time allowed us before their order window closes.

http://garzikrants.blogspot.se/
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/working-avalon-asic-confirmed/

I'm a shareholder from time to time

I'd advise being cautious with Avalon - their desperation for fast cash suggests they're having some serious issues.  Whilst it's obviously not a scam as such, I'd want to see more than a few of them arrived before assuming they're actually in a position to guarantee a steady stream of them.

It may just be as simple as they wanted to pretend to meet their shipping date - and only had a few actually ready by then but pretended they were ready to start shipping whole-sale.  Or it could be far worse - e.g. serious yield issues meaning they need cash to run another batch of chips off just to meet batch 1 commitments.

Something still smells very wrong with it - but it could be nothing more than bad PR/communications combined with stretching the truth on the state of their assembly line.

Right, but is that any worse than Butterfly labs?

[Deprived]

Given the flurry of events that have transpired in the last few hours and the detailed(& favorable) information provided by Jeff Garzik about the Avalon unit he received I'm re-evaluating the possibility of placing an order for batch 2 unit(s). As there's not enough time for a motion to pass with majority shareholder approval, I'd like to hear some alternative perspectives from shareholders to aid me in my decision.

I've spoken to several shareholders privately about ASIC vendor choices and Avalon specifically so I have an idea how some will view this decision, but I'd like to hear more in the brief time allowed us before their order window closes.

http://garzikrants.blogspot.se/
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/working-avalon-asic-confirmed/

I'm a shareholder from time to time

I'd advise being cautious with Avalon - their desperation for fast cash suggests they're having some serious issues.  Whilst it's obviously not a scam as such, I'd want to see more than a few of them arrived before assuming they're actually in a position to guarantee a steady stream of them.

It may just be as simple as they wanted to pretend to meet their shipping date - and only had a few actually ready by then but pretended they were ready to start shipping whole-sale.  Or it could be far worse - e.g. serious yield issues meaning they need cash to run another batch of chips off just to meet batch 1 commitments.

Something still smells very wrong with it - but it could be nothing more than bad PR/communications combined with stretching the truth on the state of their assembly line.

Right, but is that any worse than Butterfly labs?

Nope - I wouldn't ship them any money yet either tbh.

No matter what you do now, you aren't getting the first batch of ASICs that arrive - so no big bonus for being in the first lot mining.  A lot depends on whether you believe BTC will rise over the next few months.  If you believe it'll rise (or at least not fall) then it's highly likley the most profitable course of action is to wait for the first wave of price-cuts on ASICs before ordering.

Aside form anyhting else, Avalon's power-specs are a lot worse than BFL's - so Avalon are going to have to cut prices to remain competitive if/when BFL ship.

One other thing I don't know the answer to (as not into mining myself) - how long are the warranties on the Avalon/BFL gear?  That's a pretty massive thing to take into account that I haven't seen discussed yet.

[creativex]

While I was penning a book sized response to Deprived's comments I received this email. Time stamped 8:56am.



It seems I've received a reprieve from the Governor.

[Deprived]

While I was penning a book sized response to Deprived's comments I received this email. Time stamped 8:56am.



It seems I've received a reprieve from the Governor.

Yeah - it was a nasty spot to be in.  One the one hand you really want to get ASICs as soon as possible, on the other their communication hasn't exactly been awe-inspiring or confidence inducing.  But of course if a bunch more batch 1 ASICs arrive then it'll be a lottery trying to get an order in in the few minutes available whilst their site effectively gets DDOSed by miners trying to throw BTC at them.

From their perspective if a good chunk of batch 1 has been shipped I'd be tempted to delay batch 2 until after a fair few of them have arrived (so there's no doubt about their capability) then do a MUCH bigger batch 2 and see if they can get people cancelling BFL orders to buy from them.  This is their one chance to grab a good chunk of those orders (unless BFL totally drop the ball and still haven't shipped anything by end of February).

[creativex]

Motion to place an order with Avalon's 2nd batch.

Should company funds be allocated to Avalon's 2nd batch ASICs?

At least one customer has confirmed receipt of an Avalon built ASIC mining unit.
Should bASIC-MINING place an order with Avalon's 2nd batch when available?

This motion can be voted on by bASIC-MINING shareholders. Begins: 2013-01-31 12:00:00 (EST)    Ends: 2013-02-07 12:00:00 (EST) and is located here:

https://btct.co/security/BASIC-MINING

[creativex]

While I was penning a book sized response to Deprived's comments I received this email. Time stamped 8:56am.



It seems I've received a reprieve from the Governor.

Yeah - it was a nasty spot to be in.  One the one hand you really want to get ASICs as soon as possible, on the other their communication hasn't exactly been awe-inspiring or confidence inducing.  But of course if a bunch more batch 1 ASICs arrive then it'll be a lottery trying to get an order in in the few minutes available whilst their site effectively gets DDOSed by miners trying to throw BTC at them.

From their perspective if a good chunk of batch 1 has been shipped I'd be tempted to delay batch 2 until after a fair few of them have arrived (so there's no doubt about their capability) then do a MUCH bigger batch 2 and see if they can get people cancelling BFL orders to buy from them.  This is their one chance to grab a good chunk of those orders (unless BFL totally drop the ball and still haven't shipped anything by end of February).

It's not a position I enjoyed being put in. Due to the continuing strength in BTC vs fiat I had decided to hedge by ordering a single Avalon mining unit. As a single unit offers mining power that's 32x greater than what bASIC-MINING has available currently, the risk/reward ratio is favorable IMO, but not enough so to go all-in.

While I don't appreciate the lack of professionalism from Avalon in delaying this order window mere minutes prior to it's scheduled opening, I quite frankly hope they're able to take large portions of market share from BFL. That is my personal opinion anyway, as the manager of bASIC-MINING I will do what I feel is in the best interest of shareholders. If that eventually means I must hold my nose and order from BFL then I will do so.

[creativex]

The plot continues to sicken thicken:



...does someone detect blood in the water?

[KfrogCT]

Been following the ASIC debate and I would order with BFL over going with that power hungry beast from Avalon.

[creativex]

Please keep in mind that the "power hungry beast" from Avalon is the most energy efficient shipping product to ever mine the BTC blockchain...many times more efficient than the GPUs we're currently running. Also keep in mind that the competitor's power estimates are just that, estimates, and they've under estimated power consumption by hundreds of percent in the past.

Thank you for your input. 

[creativex]

This change was made to Avalon's website mere minutes ago...



This product is becoming more & more attractive.

[arsenische]

This change was made to Avalon's website mere minutes ago...



This product is becoming more & more attractive.

Wow.. how do you track changes?

[creativex]

Chrome plugin is called page monitor
Firefox plugin is called check for change

Both come in handy at times.