jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 01:19:21 AM |
|
Hello Bitcoin Community, I would like to discuss the topic of "virgin" bitcoins. Specifically, I would like to discuss the possibilities of being able to purchase a private key to coins mined directly to paper wallets. - Is this a niche market that only a few zealots would be interested in or this is more appealing to a broad range of Bitcoiners?
- What kind of premium, if any, could be associated with virgin coins?
- Would you consider a service that sells virgin coins for non-virgin bitcoins a laundering service?
- Is a service like this appealing for payment via meat space methods including wire and cash?
I've always found this topic to be interesting and I look forward to your responses. Best, James
|
|
|
|
|
|
"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Satoshi
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
Largo
Member
Offline
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
|
|
December 22, 2012, 01:40:46 AM |
|
Can you mine bitcoins to an address where you only got the public key? If only i had the private key i would maybe pay like 101 BTC for 100 BTC mined to my address. So yes there could be a market
|
|
|
|
FreeMoney
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1014
Strength in numbers
|
|
December 22, 2012, 01:49:03 AM |
|
It seems kind of cool to me, but I wouldn't pay much of anything, and probably only be interested in like one block if I even wanted to bother.
I could see the tiny fraction of people caring become a lot more people than there are fresh blocks eventually so the premium could go up, so there is some speculative value. However, while you can buy a virgin block you can't safely sell it once you buy it. You pay people to mine to your key, but then once you've got it if you give the key to someone they have to trust you forever or else move it and destroy it's virginity. So... I'm thinking overall it's mostly a no go.
|
Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 02:11:09 AM |
|
Can you mine bitcoins to an address where you only got the public key?
Indeed you can.
|
|
|
|
Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
|
|
December 22, 2012, 02:19:38 AM |
|
Can you mine bitcoins to an address where you only got the public key?
Indeed you can. With very little creative marketing, I envision this endeavor viable. ~Bruno K~
|
|
|
|
Stephen Gornick
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
|
|
December 22, 2012, 02:36:16 AM |
|
Can you mine bitcoins to an address where you only got the public key?
Eligius and P2Pool do this now.
|
|
|
|
Lethn
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
|
|
December 22, 2012, 04:10:47 AM |
|
I get the feeling if I took this seriously I'd be trolled LOL
|
|
|
|
Yankee (BitInstant)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
|
|
December 22, 2012, 04:52:46 AM |
|
I'd get 1 for the novelty of it
|
Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer. More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
|
|
|
Garr255
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's a GPU?
|
|
December 22, 2012, 05:00:06 AM |
|
I'm also interested in whether there would be a market for such a thing.
Giga, while I wouldn't call it laundering, it certainly would be used for that.
|
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” -- Mahatma Gandhi
Average time between signing on to bitcointalk: Two weeks. Please don't expect responses any faster than that!
|
|
|
siggy
|
|
December 22, 2012, 05:22:10 AM |
|
I've pondered this question on an off for a good year now... My thinking is that at the moment, a 50 or 25 virgin block is worth about 50.1 / 25 coins .. in 20 years however, the Numismic value of a virgin block (technically the private key for said block) will be off the charts ...This is simply because of the rarity and the fact that from now till the end of eternity, nevermore will a 50 virgin coin block be minted. Just take a look here: http://cointrackers.com/blog/13/most-valuable-pennies/ ... there a lowly pennies out there worth $100,000 Soo.. anyone out there with virgin 50 coin keys they wanna sell? Sigg
|
|
|
|
SAC
|
|
December 22, 2012, 05:47:02 AM |
|
I've pondered this question on an off for a good year now... My thinking is that at the moment, a 50 or 25 virgin block is worth about 50.1 / 25 coins .. in 20 years however, the Numismic value of a virgin block (technically the private key for said block) will be off the charts ...This is simply because of the rarity and the fact that from now till the end of eternity, nevermore will a 50 virgin coin block be minted. Just take a look here: http://cointrackers.com/blog/13/most-valuable-pennies/ ... there a lowly pennies out there worth $100,000 Soo.. anyone out there with virgin 50 coin keys they wanna sell? Sigg Oh baby that makes a virgin block worth what $5m, yeah right so begins the latest scam lets see where the shills come from like you proclaiming how this is yet again the best thing since sliced bread. A virgin coin is worth the same as any other damn coin out there it is all bits on a computer.
|
|
|
|
Stephen Gornick
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
|
|
December 22, 2012, 05:50:16 AM |
|
My thinking is that at the moment, a 50 or 25 virgin block is worth about 50.1 / 25 coins .. in 20 years however, the Numismic value of a virgin block (technically the private key for said block) will be off the charts ...This is simply because of the rarity and the fact that from now till the end of eternity, nevermore will a 50 virgin coin block be minted. The problem is that any buyer would need to trust that the seller wouldn't spend the funds after the sale. Sending the coins to a new address will still have numismatic value but it is not the same as what existed previously. But yes, there have been buyers who have paid a premium: The auction is now closed, the block is sold. The premium paid will remain undisclosed.
|
|
|
|
kjlimo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2086
Merit: 1031
|
|
December 22, 2012, 06:16:07 AM |
|
How much does the Fed charge for freshly minted coins?
Pretty sure it's nothing above face value... not sure why bitcoins would be different.
|
|
|
|
zero3112
|
|
December 22, 2012, 07:13:34 AM |
|
These are not newly minted coins. These are old coins minted in the past just like minted old US coins. But like old US coins they are worth more if the coins are in uncirculated conduction.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 11:31:57 AM Last edit: December 22, 2012, 12:23:26 PM by gigavps |
|
The problem is that any buyer would need to trust that the seller wouldn't spend the funds after the sale.
Correct. This is why I've stated that the coins would be mined to paper wallets (most likely laminated) or mine directly to the buyers address. Sending the coins to a new address will still have numismatic value but it is not the same as what existed previously.
Sending the coins to an address is not the idea here. Only a generation transaction to an address. But yes, there have been buyers who have paid a premium: The auction is now closed, the block is sold. The premium paid will remain undisclosed. Thanks for the link.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 12:23:03 PM |
|
A virgin coin is worth the same as any other damn coin out there it is all bits on a computer.
Thanks SAC.
|
|
|
|
BkkCoins
|
|
December 22, 2012, 12:32:34 PM |
|
If I ran a pool, or had a big solo rig, I'd have an ongoing auction for each block to see what premium can be raised. Each bidder would send a requested address and (25btc + premium) to an address provided. This is the only way you could guarantee the block is paid. They can request a refund at any time and if they don't win the bid is held over to the next block. At block discovery the highest bid is used for generation address and the bidders deposit is used for pool payout. Of course, with many virgin blocks like this, the specialness factor would go way down quickly and presumably the premium.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 12:50:27 PM |
|
If I ran a pool, or had a big solo rig, I'd have an ongoing auction for each block to see what premium can be raised.
I've seen an idea like this before somewhere, I think there would need to be a lot of transparency around the bidding process and current bids. This does add the element of competition though which is always interesting. Of course, with many virgin blocks like this, the specialness factor would go way down quickly and presumably the premium. At first I was thinking the same as you here, but the numbers quickly change if you wanted 500 or 1000 coins (aka multiple blocks) generated to a single address.
|
|
|
|
matthewh3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1003
|
|
December 22, 2012, 06:19:22 PM |
|
You might want to use waterproof and tear-proof paper like this - http://toughprint.com/ - and make them into kind of a banknote maybe?
|
|
|
|
Yankee (BitInstant)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
|
|
December 22, 2012, 06:41:54 PM |
|
I'll still take 1 for novelty....let me know your BTC address and how much you want.
|
Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer. More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
|
|
|
juhakall
|
|
December 22, 2012, 06:51:25 PM |
|
I'll still take 1 for novelty....let me know your BTC address and how much you want.
You can have bitcoins generated directly to your address by mining at a pool that does it's payouts like that. P2Pool and Eligius might be the only ones, here's an example of an Eligius payout. But that's still not the same as having the whole block reward generated to you.. or is it? I don't really know what's the value-adding thing here.
|
I'm currently developing an experimental social AI platform
|
|
|
SAC
|
|
December 22, 2012, 07:52:24 PM |
|
I'll still take 1 for novelty....let me know your BTC address and how much you want.
You can have bitcoins generated directly to your address by mining at a pool that does it's payouts like that. P2Pool and Eligius might be the only ones, here's an example of an Eligius payout. But that's still not the same as having the whole block reward generated to you.. or is it? I don't really know what's the value-adding thing here. The value add is in finding the morons willing to pay over the odds for a bitcoin block and as I expected the usual suspects are in with how great this can be hold onto your wallet their at it again...
|
|
|
|
matthewh3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1003
|
|
December 22, 2012, 08:02:01 PM |
|
Yead I'd like to be able to buy whole virgin 25.00 blocks on a paper wallet made into a basic bank note made from http://toughprint.com/ paper. That paper would probably last longer than normal paper laminated as its waterproof and tear-proof.
|
|
|
|
adamstgBit
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
|
|
December 22, 2012, 08:10:16 PM |
|
Yead I'd like to be able to buy whole virgin 25.00 blocks on a paper wallet made into a basic bank note made from http://toughprint.com/ paper. That paper would probably last longer than normal paper laminated as its waterproof and tear-proof. or on nice heavy brass coin
|
|
|
|
matthewh3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1003
|
|
December 22, 2012, 08:19:58 PM |
|
Yead I'd like to be able to buy whole virgin 25.00 blocks on a paper wallet made into a basic bank note made from http://toughprint.com/ paper. That paper would probably last longer than normal paper laminated as its waterproof and tear-proof. or on nice heavy brass coin What kind of bitcoins goes on those 'Casascius coins'. The ones you use to purchase them or something else because it'd be good if you could get whole virgin BTC25.00 blocks on them
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 08:30:35 PM |
|
What kind of bitcoins goes on those 'Casascius coins'. The ones you use to purchase them or something else because it'd be good if you could get whole virgin BTC25.00 blocks on them That is definitely an interesting idea. Although, it would probably be over 25 coins with the transaction fees in there.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 08:35:35 PM |
|
Good idea on the tough print paper. I was thinking about regular paper with lamination but I'll need to look into this more. I wonder if there is a similar company in the US.
|
|
|
|
matthewh3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1003
|
|
December 22, 2012, 08:39:24 PM |
|
Good idea on the tough print paper. I was thinking about regular paper with lamination but I'll need to look into this more. I wonder if there is a similar company in the US. Yeah you can buy the paper on eBay so I'm sure there is a US supplier. It'd be better than laminate as it doesn't even tear when wet. I've seen some other similar papers and they have a more canvas type feel which might be good for a btc bank note but I don't know if the canvas ones are as tough as that waterproof and tear-proof paper.
|
|
|
|
matthewh3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1003
|
|
December 22, 2012, 08:47:55 PM |
|
Good idea on the tough print paper. I was thinking about regular paper with lamination but I'll need to look into this more. I wonder if there is a similar company in the US. Yeah you can buy the paper on eBay so I'm sure there is a US supplier. It'd be better than laminate as it doesn't even tear when wet. I've seen some other similar papers and they have a more canvas type feel which might be good for a btc bank note but I don't know if the canvas ones are as tough as that waterproof and tear-proof paper. This is the cotton paper - http://www.theinkjetpapergirl.co.uk/a4-260g-cotton-matte-real-canvas-waterproof-20-sheets-177-p.asp - so it'd feel more like a bank note but its only water resistant and tear resistant while the other one is waterproof and tear-proof even when wet.
|
|
|
|
BkkCoins
|
|
December 22, 2012, 10:28:25 PM |
|
What kind of bitcoins goes on those 'Casascius coins'. The ones you use to purchase them or something else because it'd be good if you could get whole virgin BTC25.00 blocks on them That is definitely an interesting idea. Although, it would probably be over 25 coins with the transaction fees in there. I hadn't even thought of the fees. That would make any bidding on a block a small gamble as well. You'd never really know how much premium you paid until it won, and the miner wouldn't know if they were going to get more than just fees. Perhaps users would pay a higher fee to be in a famous virgin block just as they did for the halving. The value add is in finding the morons willing to pay over the odds for a bitcoin block and as I expected the usual suspects are in with how great this can be hold onto your wallet their at it again...
I don't see how this is different than coin collecting. Collectors always pay more than face value for anything considered rare or special. Is it moronic to pay for fun, entertainment or simply enjoying something besides calculating your net worth? What a sad life that would be. Even from a strictly investment pov one has no idea what value a virgin block may someday have. People collect the weirdest things. If someone would pay 124,000 Euro for this then why not a virgin block?
|
|
|
|
Yankee (BitInstant)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
|
|
December 22, 2012, 10:31:26 PM |
|
I'll still take 1 for novelty....let me know your BTC address and how much you want.
You can have bitcoins generated directly to your address by mining at a pool that does it's payouts like that. P2Pool and Eligius might be the only ones, here's an example of an Eligius payout. But that's still not the same as having the whole block reward generated to you.. or is it? I don't really know what's the value-adding thing here. The value add is in finding the morons willing to pay over the odds for a bitcoin block and as I expected the usual suspects are in with how great this can be hold onto your wallet their at it again... SAC, Please refrain from personal attacks on these forums. If you want people to give you respect, you should respect other people. Some peoples garbage are other peoples treasures. For those of working on the front lines of Bitcoin, sometimes these small novelties and memento's of Bitcoin excite us. We have the right to enjoy what we work so hard on every single day. If you can't see the value in a free market economy, and true value by someones own accord, there is a bigger problem here. -Charlie
|
Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer. More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
|
|
|
SAC
|
|
December 22, 2012, 10:46:29 PM |
|
I'll still take 1 for novelty....let me know your BTC address and how much you want.
You can have bitcoins generated directly to your address by mining at a pool that does it's payouts like that. P2Pool and Eligius might be the only ones, here's an example of an Eligius payout. But that's still not the same as having the whole block reward generated to you.. or is it? I don't really know what's the value-adding thing here. The value add is in finding the morons willing to pay over the odds for a bitcoin block and as I expected the usual suspects are in with how great this can be hold onto your wallet their at it again... SAC, Please refrain from personal attacks on these forums. If you want people to give you respect, you should respect other people. Some peoples garbage are other peoples treasures. For those of working on the front lines of Bitcoin, sometimes these small novelties and memento's of Bitcoin excite us. We have the right to enjoy what we work so hard on every single day. If you can't see the value in a free market economy, and true value by someones own accord, there is a bigger problem here. -Charlie Whatever free market manipulating more like it but you people are used to that anyways. So in short if your fine with these scammers pulling another one give it your full support. The value add is in finding the morons willing to pay over the odds for a bitcoin block and as I expected the usual suspects are in with how great this can be hold onto your wallet their at it again...
I don't see how this is different than coin collecting. Collectors always pay more than face value for anything considered rare or special. Is it moronic to pay for fun, entertainment or simply enjoying something besides calculating your net worth? What a sad life that would be. Even from a strictly investment pov one has no idea what value a virgin block may someday have. People collect the weirdest things. If someone would pay 124,000 Euro for this then why not a virgin block? Indeed as old PT said there is one born every minute and all these collector fools are just a shinning example of it.
|
|
|
|
matthewh3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1003
|
|
December 22, 2012, 10:51:55 PM |
|
Indeed as old PT said there is one born every minute and all these collector fools are just a shinning example of it.
Oh, who's got too much angst and an internet connection People have always collected things and when those things are rare things the collection can become valuable. Certain gold coins coins are worth >x10 the magnitude of 'spot' price.
|
|
|
|
Otoh
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3024
Merit: 1105
|
|
December 22, 2012, 10:59:58 PM Last edit: December 22, 2012, 11:40:55 PM by Otoh |
|
I made a vanity address for my niece & would perhaps be interested in funding it this way for a reasonable premium, maybe others would too - I wouldn't be surprised if it was being planned for a long term investment &/or gift. Edit: I collect coins & have sold 2 since 2010 for between $80k to $100k each, they weighed 37.22 grams Au each, melt value approx $2k each.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 11:02:09 PM |
|
I made a vanity address for my niece & would perhaps be interested in funding it this way for a reasonable premium, maybe others would too - I wouldn't be surprised if it was being planned for a long term investment. Very cool vanity addy. That one must have taken a while to make! I'm glad to see that most seem to think that this is a novel/interesting idea.
|
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
December 22, 2012, 11:13:33 PM Last edit: December 22, 2012, 11:24:31 PM by JWU42 |
|
Generating for an address is a better idea. I mined a few 50 BTC blocks before the reward halving and moved the private keys to a longtime storage wallet. I had envisioned selling the private key but see that requires trust that I would remove that key from a wallet...
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 22, 2012, 11:21:16 PM |
|
Generating for an address is a better idea. I mined a few 50 BTC blocks before the reward halving and moved the private keys to a longtime storage wallet. I had in visioned selling he private key bu see that requires trust hat I would remove that key from a wallet...
I think this is why mining directly to paper wallets is key for pre-generated coins. I am starting to agree that the less trust approach would be for customers to make purchases before hand and then mine directly to their address. They would know that they would be getting 25 BTC and whatever transaction fees come with the block. The paper wallets are good if you want to receive something in the mail. I personally like receiving things in the mail and, if done right, I think others would like it too. It is also good to be able to mail (and have customers sign for) something if you are accepting meat space methods of payment.
|
|
|
|
casascius
Mike Caldwell
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1136
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
|
|
December 22, 2012, 11:22:49 PM |
|
What kind of bitcoins goes on those 'Casascius coins'. The ones you use to purchase them or something else because it'd be good if you could get whole virgin BTC25.00 blocks on them Usually it's just the one used to purchase them, but I would be happy to make 25 BTC coins out of virgin coins if there were buyers willing to pay extra to make the effort worthwhile. Part of the problem is that everyone agrees they'd be neat but wouldn't pay much more than a couple percent premium to get one. I'm open to be proven wrong, but am somewhat resigned to the idea that bothering would barely be worth the effort. If someone wants to arrange it themselves, I'd be very open to it... in other words, you buy the coin and then instead of saying "OK it arrived please fund it", you'd say "OK it arrived and I funded it myself so you don't have to, so now please refund me my original 25 BTC at address X". I already do deals very similar to this from time to time when buyers want to fund them with bitcoins from a specific origin.
|
Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
|
|
|
SAC
|
|
December 22, 2012, 11:59:11 PM |
|
Indeed as old PT said there is one born every minute and all these collector fools are just a shinning example of it.
Oh, who's got too much angst and an internet connection People have always collected things and when those things are rare things the collection can become valuable. Certain gold coins coins are worth >x10 the magnitude of 'spot' price. Sure they are that gold in there has them super special atoms never to be found again ...
|
|
|
|
Hal
VIP
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 314
Merit: 3853
|
|
December 23, 2012, 12:20:32 AM |
|
I was lucky enough to receive the first bitcoin transaction, and then I was careless enough to spend it accidentally. I probably still have the key sitting on a switched-off computer, so I could auction off the key. Usual caveats about making sure I delete it when I sell it...
|
Hal Finney
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 23, 2012, 12:46:06 AM |
|
I was lucky enough to receive the first bitcoin transaction, and then I was careless enough to spend it accidentally.
That is both awesome and heartbreaking all at the same time.
|
|
|
|
Yankee (BitInstant)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
|
|
December 23, 2012, 01:02:55 AM |
|
I'll still take 1 for novelty....let me know your BTC address and how much you want.
You can have bitcoins generated directly to your address by mining at a pool that does it's payouts like that. P2Pool and Eligius might be the only ones, here's an example of an Eligius payout. But that's still not the same as having the whole block reward generated to you.. or is it? I don't really know what's the value-adding thing here. The value add is in finding the morons willing to pay over the odds for a bitcoin block and as I expected the usual suspects are in with how great this can be hold onto your wallet their at it again... SAC, Please refrain from personal attacks on these forums. If you want people to give you respect, you should respect other people. Some peoples garbage are other peoples treasures. For those of working on the front lines of Bitcoin, sometimes these small novelties and memento's of Bitcoin excite us. We have the right to enjoy what we work so hard on every single day. If you can't see the value in a free market economy, and true value by someones own accord, there is a bigger problem here. -Charlie Whatever free market manipulating more like it but you people are used to that anyways. So in short if your fine with these scammers pulling another one give it your full support. Oh? Another personal attack? No wonder people don't take you seriously! Dude, its simple: 1. Seller lists something 2. Buyer wants it 3. Buyer pays for it, everyone is happy. If there is no buyer, there is no sale ...but you people are used to that anyways. So in short if your fine with these scammers pulling another one give it your full support.
If your gonna make a dumb comment like that, at least back it up with sources and proof. 'you people' - who is you people? 'used to that anyways' - used to what? 'scammers' - what scammers? Who is scamming you? - Charlie
|
Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer. More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
|
|
|
BkkCoins
|
|
December 23, 2012, 01:15:18 AM Last edit: December 23, 2012, 03:16:01 AM by BkkCoins |
|
What kind of bitcoins goes on those 'Casascius coins'. The ones you use to purchase them or something else because it'd be good if you could get whole virgin BTC25.00 blocks on them Usually it's just the one used to purchase them, but I would be happy to make 25 BTC coins out of virgin coins if there were buyers willing to pay extra to make the effort worthwhile. Part of the problem is that everyone agrees they'd be neat but wouldn't pay much more than a couple percent premium to get one. I'm open to be proven wrong, but am somewhat resigned to the idea that bothering would barely be worth the effort. If someone wants to arrange it themselves, I'd be very open to it... in other words, you buy the coin and then instead of saying "OK it arrived please fund it", you'd say "OK it arrived and I funded it myself so you don't have to, so now please refund me my original 25 BTC at address X". I already do deals very similar to this from time to time when buyers want to fund them with bitcoins from a specific origin. Or if you can reach an agreement with a miner/pool that they trust you, then why not sell the coin, and when the block is confirmed mined onto the coin's address you send the 25btc to the miner instead of putting it on the coin. In essence you act as escow between the miner and bidder, and perhaps automate it, and take a small fee to make it worthwhile. I could see Virgin Casascius coins as quite interesting because they bring a physicality to the idea of a pure block. I could see down the road people being interested in such a coin being more collectible than others. The difficult part is how such an item could be traded if the private key is not trusted to be destroyed. I come back to the same as your other coins - perhaps the trust of Casascius destroying the key is better than the trust of the first buyer doing so?
|
|
|
|
BkkCoins
|
|
December 23, 2012, 01:27:45 AM |
|
Indeed as old PT said there is one born every minute and all these collector fools are just a shinning example of it.
Oh, who's got too much angst and an internet connection People have always collected things and when those things are rare things the collection can become valuable. Certain gold coins coins are worth >x10 the magnitude of 'spot' price. Sure they are that gold in there has them super special atoms never to be found again ... You sound like a real bore; hung up with a super dull idea of value. I say "Thanks" to all the imaginative and visionary people in Bitcoin, technology companies, artists, art dealers and just about anyone who isn't quite so dull - for making this world a more interesting place to live. What I can't understand is why you bother wasting your super-valuable time being so critical of people.
|
|
|
|
SAC
|
|
December 23, 2012, 03:12:23 AM |
|
Indeed as old PT said there is one born every minute and all these collector fools are just a shinning example of it.
Oh, who's got too much angst and an internet connection People have always collected things and when those things are rare things the collection can become valuable. Certain gold coins coins are worth >x10 the magnitude of 'spot' price. Sure they are that gold in there has them super special atoms never to be found again ... You sound like a real bore; hung up with a super dull idea of value. I say "Thanks" to all the imaginative and visionary people in Bitcoin, technology companies, artists, art dealers and just about anyone who isn't quite so dull - for making this world a more interesting place to live. What I can't understand is why you bother wasting your super-valuable time being so critical of people. Most certainly I believe in value for your money spent not this pie in the sky BS most around here seem to think of as normal, it does not turn my crank at all. And I hate fucking scammers with a passion and that is all this is just one more opportunity for them to ply their trade. In case any of you have not noticed it is pretty much always the same group of people who show up in these threads designed to separate people from their btc short a few members now that pirate, nefario, patrick among others are gone but still out in force when they come up with new one.
|
|
|
|
BkkCoins
|
|
December 23, 2012, 04:07:19 AM |
|
And I hate fucking scammers with a passion and that is all this is just one more opportunity for them to ply their trade.
Scam? What scam? Anyone looking at buying a virgin block knows what they're getting and that it may never be worth more than 25 btc. It would only be a scam if they didn't get what they paid for or were sold a private key that was later emptied on them. In case any of you have not noticed it is pretty much always the same group of people who show up in these threads designed to separate people from their btc short a few members now that pirate, nefario, patrick among others are gone but still out in force when they come up with new one.
That's way out in left field. As far as I see the people posting in this thread have been mostly ongoing trustworthy community members. Casascius, Yankee, gigavps, Hal - I've never heard of any of them pulling any scam. I guess you mean offering something that you don't think is worthwhile?
|
|
|
|
siggy
|
|
December 23, 2012, 03:23:35 PM |
|
What kind of bitcoins goes on those 'Casascius coins'. The ones you use to purchase them or something else because it'd be good if you could get whole virgin BTC25.00 blocks on them That is definitely an interesting idea. Although, it would probably be over 25 coins with the transaction fees in there. Being kinda anal... I'd want my "25-coin" to be exactly 25.000... bitcoins. Is it possible for a miner to split the 25 bounty into one address and put the fees into a different address? Sigg
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 23, 2012, 03:29:38 PM |
|
Being kinda anal... I'd want my "25-coin" to be exactly 25.000... bitcoins. Is it possible for a miner to split the 25 bounty into one address and put the fees into a different address?
Sigg
I believe with the pool setup correctly, this could be done. I'm pretty sure it can be setup to fill an address to an exact amount or over a specific amount. I'll make sure to add this to the feature list.
|
|
|
|
World
|
|
December 23, 2012, 10:38:48 PM |
|
I was lucky enough to receive the first bitcoin transaction, and then I was careless enough to spend it accidentally. I probably still have the key sitting on a switched-off computer, so I could auction off the key. Usual caveats about making sure I delete it when I sell it...
This will be very interesting.
|
Supporting people with beautiful creative ideas. Bitcoin is because of the developers,exchanges,merchants,miners,investors,users,machines and blockchain technologies work together.
|
|
|
R-
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Pasta
|
|
December 24, 2012, 08:09:19 PM |
|
Giga, neat idea. To me, your proposal sounds like GPUMax though. Am I missing something?
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 24, 2012, 08:21:03 PM |
|
Giga, neat idea. To me, your proposal sounds like GPUMax though. Am I missing something?
I guess you could consider that GPUMax was doing something similar but they used other's hashing power to back the service. You would only get "virgin" coins if you directed your hashing power to a pool that allowed coins generated directly into your wallet. So just pointing hashing power to say ozco.in, would get you nearly virgin coins, but there would still be transactions leading from the generation.
|
|
|
|
Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
|
|
December 26, 2012, 07:42:50 PM |
|
What about a mining pool strictly designed solely to mine virgin coins, whereupon all those contributing to the pool receive a 10%(?) premium?
~Bruno K~
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 26, 2012, 07:46:59 PM |
|
What about a mining pool strictly designed solely to mine virgin coins, whereupon all those contributing to the pool receive a 10%(?) premium?
~Bruno K~
If this idea proves out, that might be an idea. I wish there was more time in the day.....
|
|
|
|
Yankee (BitInstant)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
|
|
December 26, 2012, 07:56:39 PM |
|
What about a mining pool strictly designed solely to mine virgin coins, whereupon all those contributing to the pool receive a 10%(?) premium?
~Bruno K~
If this idea proves out, that might be an idea. I wish there was more time in the day..... Im down to throw my new ASIC's toward that pool if such existed....
|
Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer. More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
|
|
|
Raize
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
|
|
December 27, 2012, 05:09:23 PM |
|
It's funny to see everyone in this thread basically reinventing Eligius and P2Pool.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 27, 2012, 05:32:28 PM |
|
It's funny to see everyone in this thread basically reinventing Eligius and P2Pool.
IMO, there are many more people who do not mine than do. So virgin coins are accessible to only a small portion of the bitcoin user base. My idea is to simply give non miners a chance to also own coin without a transaction history. My original questions still stand, the implementation of such a service is not as important.
|
|
|
|
SAC
|
|
December 27, 2012, 05:54:47 PM |
|
My idea is to simply give non miners a chance to also own coin without a transaction history.
Sure encourage parasite blocks that are of no benefit to the BTC network get enough of them no transactions get done, hardly surprising you would come up with this idea though based on your "business" dealings of the past fits you to a tee.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 27, 2012, 06:01:45 PM |
|
Sure encourage parasite blocks that are of no benefit to the BTC network get enough of them no transactions get done, hardly surprising you would come up with this idea though based on your "business" dealings of the past fits you to a tee.
You usually make sense but what exactly are "parasite blocks"? How is mining and finding blocks of no benefit to the BTC network? SAC, did you take your medications today?
|
|
|
|
jcpham
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 165
Merit: 100
Your Argument is Irrelephant
|
|
December 27, 2012, 06:05:41 PM |
|
I still like the idea of "solo pool" where the highest hasher wins everything and everyone else gets nothing.
|
|
|
|
SAC
|
|
December 27, 2012, 06:13:39 PM |
|
Sure encourage parasite blocks that are of no benefit to the BTC network get enough of them no transactions get done, hardly surprising you would come up with this idea though based on your "business" dealings of the past fits you to a tee.
You usually make sense but what exactly are "parasite blocks"? How is mining and finding blocks of no benefit to the BTC network? SAC, did you take your medications today? A block with no transactions it only takes and gives nothing back to the host (the btc network if that did not filter into your brain) hence a parasite.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
December 27, 2012, 06:23:40 PM |
|
A block with no transactions it only takes and gives nothing back to the host (the btc network if that did not filter into your brain) hence a parasite.
Who ever said to make a block with no transactions? We are talking about COINS with no transactions. Let me give you an example, maybe that will help you understand better. http://blockchain.info/tx/3ea44e636930806ef302022f6e770ec6e4b6edcbd1dd965cd0ca0731d388a1f8Take a look at the link above and you will see "No Inputs (Newly Generated Coins)". This is what I mean about COINS without a transaction history. Make sense?
|
|
|
|
Raize
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
|
|
December 27, 2012, 06:39:38 PM |
|
My idea is to simply give non miners a chance to also own coin without a transaction history.
I think it's a great idea. The premium on this service isn't terribly high, if you're lucky, maybe as high as 5%. This is mostly because services/methods like the Blockchain.info mixing service and Litecoin swaps exist and charge under 2%, and the novelty benefit isn't worth much more than that. But these aren't blocks, maybe blocks themselves would be worth a lot. I offer no evidence as to why I know this, but that's my input regardless. And, that's not to say such a thing couldn't or won't change. Maybe they'll be worth a fortune someday. I just thought it was funny as this is like a rehashing of what's already been done with Eligius and P2Pool. If there was a high demand for virgin coin, you would see people request it more often.
|
|
|
|
SAC
|
|
December 27, 2012, 07:26:30 PM |
|
A block with no transactions it only takes and gives nothing back to the host (the btc network if that did not filter into your brain) hence a parasite.
Who ever said to make a block with no transactions? We are talking about COINS with no transactions. Let me give you an example, maybe that will help you understand better. http://blockchain.info/tx/3ea44e636930806ef302022f6e770ec6e4b6edcbd1dd965cd0ca0731d388a1f8Take a look at the link above and you will see "No Inputs (Newly Generated Coins)". This is what I mean about COINS without a transaction history. Make sense? Not at all that block is greater than the 50 it was supposed to be so has old coin included in it to be a virgin block it has to have no transactions. As I have said before this is just another scheme to separate people from their BTC nothing else.
|
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
December 27, 2012, 07:57:32 PM |
|
A block with no transactions it only takes and gives nothing back to the host (the btc network if that did not filter into your brain) hence a parasite.
Who ever said to make a block with no transactions? We are talking about COINS with no transactions. Let me give you an example, maybe that will help you understand better. http://blockchain.info/tx/3ea44e636930806ef302022f6e770ec6e4b6edcbd1dd965cd0ca0731d388a1f8Take a look at the link above and you will see "No Inputs (Newly Generated Coins)". This is what I mean about COINS without a transaction history. Make sense? The pool could also "pimp your block" with comments in the coinbase field . Note the link above was mined by /Coinlab/
|
|
|
|
Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
|
|
December 27, 2012, 07:59:55 PM |
|
Too bad virgincoins.com is already taken. Imagine if Sir Richard Branson put his name on such a project. Sir Richard Branson Becomes a Numismatists with Vigin Coins
|
|
|
|
Ploo
|
|
December 27, 2012, 08:45:54 PM |
|
This could be a service pool operators offer. - Bids are placed by depositing bitcoins and specifying a payout address
- When a block is mined a bid is filled starting with the best offer.
- Mined bitcoins are sent to the bidder, bidders bitcoins are send to the miners.
|
|
|
|
BkkCoins
|
|
December 28, 2012, 01:47:55 AM |
|
This could be a service pool operators offer. - Bids are placed by depositing bitcoins and specifying a payout address
- When a block is mined a bid is filled starting with the best offer.
- Mined bitcoins are sent to the bidder, bidders bitcoins are send to the miners.
Already suggested above... by me.
|
|
|
|
Monster Tent
|
|
December 28, 2012, 11:00:50 AM |
|
giga would mine them for you then once hes done so extort an apostille that you wont spend them illegally.
|
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
February 08, 2013, 08:31:38 PM |
|
Bump - mining away (solo) and would be happy to offer the next block for an 8% premium (27 BTC).
One would just need to send me the BTC and address to mine against.
|
|
|
|
BTCGOLD
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 958
Merit: 256
Betking.io - Best Bitcoin Casino
|
|
February 08, 2013, 08:36:55 PM |
|
A Virgin Coin that has been moved once isnt worth anything more!
|
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
February 08, 2013, 08:50:24 PM |
|
A Virgin Coin that has been moved once isnt worth anything more!
Exactly why I would mine it to a BTC address provided - which should obviously be a new address. As to what premium the market will bear - I guess that is for us all to learn...
|
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
March 08, 2013, 12:33:34 AM |
|
Bump - any interest or is this a dead horse?
|
|
|
|
Astro
|
|
March 08, 2013, 02:21:47 AM |
|
100% of Atlas's coins are virgin, just like the owner.
|
|
|
|
Garr255
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's a GPU?
|
|
March 08, 2013, 08:08:26 AM |
|
100% of Atlas's coins are virgin, just like the owner.
Hehehe
|
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” -- Mahatma Gandhi
Average time between signing on to bitcointalk: Two weeks. Please don't expect responses any faster than that!
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
March 09, 2013, 03:47:56 PM |
|
OK - dead it is....
|
|
|
|
westkybitcoins
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
|
|
March 11, 2013, 01:31:23 AM |
|
OK - dead it is....
I might be interested in a fraction of a block. Say, if the coinbase transaction split the 25 BTC evenly among 5 different addresses, one of them being mine. Out of curiosity though, how often do you find a block mining solo?
|
Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
... ... In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber... ... ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)... ... The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
March 11, 2013, 01:53:28 AM |
|
Will need to do some reading on multiple addresses for the coinbase transaction.
|
|
|
|
camolist
|
|
March 11, 2013, 04:51:17 AM |
|
Will need to do some reading on multiple addresses for the coinbase transaction.
it's for sure possible (see p2pool payouts) i wouldn't be of any help on the how-tos though sorry!
|
|
|
|
BkkCoins
|
|
March 11, 2013, 05:54:45 AM |
|
Will need to do some reading on multiple addresses for the coinbase transaction.
Eligius pool also sends out many payments from the coinbase. So just look at one of it's blocks and see how the coinbase is done. It's probably just a regular transaction on the outputs side.
|
|
|
|
franky1
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4465
|
|
March 11, 2013, 06:44:13 AM |
|
dunno why it was bumped.
but maybe there is a slight premium for coins that have less then 4 hops from a miner, so that they are atleast classed as clean.
even bank notes leave the mint. the delivery driver 1 drives it to the central security vault. another driver moves it cross country. the bank teller counts it up before putting it into an ATM.
so even those wanting to trade dirty bank notes think there is value in ATM new notes.
no need to reply
|
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER. Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
|
|
|
|
mb300sd
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Drunk Posts
|
|
November 25, 2013, 02:39:25 AM |
|
I am perfectly happy to sell mining contracts to your address on eliguis, for a 10% premium. Have 2x avalon, full bitfury, and many usb miners.
|
1D7FJWRzeKa4SLmTznd3JpeNU13L1ErEco
|
|
|
CobaltBlueD
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
|
|
November 25, 2013, 04:13:15 AM |
|
It seems to me there are additional benefits to be had with 'virgin' coin. Were you to do this, it would be completely untraceable. A paper wallet you had never touched. Random 'clean' coins sent to it. Handy in case of emergency, eh?
|
|
|
|
digitizedcurrency2010
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
|
|
September 26, 2014, 05:18:34 AM |
|
I am perfectly happy to sell mining contracts to your address on eliguis, for a 10% premium. Have 2x avalon, full bitfury, and many usb miners.
Any one interested in selling virgin coins ?
|
|
|
|
bornil267645
|
|
September 26, 2014, 08:33:53 AM |
|
Does it mean it can never be f***ed...up???B-)
|
|
|
|
BitCoinNutJob
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1000
|
|
September 26, 2014, 09:11:41 AM |
|
Here was me thinking Richard Branson was launching an alt coin for a quick pump and dump max keiser style
|
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
September 27, 2014, 12:55:02 AM |
|
Sadly now barely $20K
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
September 27, 2014, 01:04:11 AM |
|
Sadly now barely $20K Get them while they are cheap...
|
|
|
|
keithers
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf
|
|
September 27, 2014, 01:09:58 AM |
|
Hello Bitcoin Community, I would like to discuss the topic of "virgin" bitcoins. Specifically, I would like to discuss the possibilities of being able to purchase a private key to coins mined directly to paper wallets. - Is this a niche market that only a few zealots would be interested in or this is more appealing to a broad range of Bitcoiners?
- What kind of premium, if any, could be associated with virgin coins?
- Would you consider a service that sells virgin coins for non-virgin bitcoins a laundering service?
- Is a service like this appealing for payment via meat space methods including wire and cash?
I've always found this topic to be interesting and I look forward to your responses. Best, James I think as time progresses, this idea may get more and more merit. This would only be pertinent to a small niche of people. I would say that 75% or more of the people in BTC only care about the price, because they want the $500 they invested to be worth $10,000 or more. I think "virgin" coins as you call them would be exceptionally cool once all the coins have been mined...
|
|
|
|
rackcityb1
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 45
Merit: 0
|
|
September 27, 2014, 02:39:46 AM |
|
Sadly now barely $20K Get them while they are cheap... I think this would be incredibly risky. The seller of the directly mined bitcoin could easily sell the private keys twice (or more) or they could sign and broadcast a TX out of the address at a later time, and there would be nothing the buyer could do about it because of how difficult it is to determine where a TX came from. A possible alternative would be to sell bitcoin whose inputs are from the block subsidies for a presidium (you would actually send the bitcoin to an address that the buyer controls). My concern about doing this however is that it would put the fungibility of bitcoin into question.
|
|
|
|
CryptoCarmen
Member
Offline
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
★Bitin.io★ - Instant Exchange
|
|
September 27, 2014, 12:00:23 PM |
|
Sadly now barely $20K Get them while they are cheap... I think this would be incredibly risky. The seller of the directly mined bitcoin could easily sell the private keys twice (or more) or they could sign and broadcast a TX out of the address at a later time, and there would be nothing the buyer could do about it because of how difficult it is to determine where a TX came from. A possible alternative would be to sell bitcoin whose inputs are from the block subsidies for a presidium (you would actually send the bitcoin to an address that the buyer controls). My concern about doing this however is that it would put the fungibility of bitcoin into question. That is a good businesses to sell one thing twice.
|
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
September 27, 2014, 09:01:58 PM |
|
A virgin 50BTC block is rather cool -- but as you say trusting the seller to discard the privkey (securely) is paramount.
|
|
|
|
a447513372
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
DLISK - Next Generation Coin
|
|
September 28, 2014, 01:37:44 AM |
|
A virgin 50BTC block is rather cool -- but as you say trusting the seller to discard the privkey (securely) is paramount.
IMO it would be impossible to know for sure that the seller actually disregarded the private key. Not only that but if the coins are moved to an address that you do not control without you signing a TX to move them, you really do not know if it was the seller moving them, if your private keys were somehow compromised or if there was a "collision" (although this is extremely unlikely).
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
September 28, 2014, 09:36:09 AM |
|
IMO it would be impossible to know for sure that the seller actually disregarded the private key. Not only that but if the coins are moved to an address that you do not control without you signing a TX to move them, you really do not know if it was the seller moving them, if your private keys were somehow compromised or if there was a "collision" (although this is extremely unlikely).
It is no different than owning Casascius coins. You had to trust that Casascius didn't keep all of the private keys on the holograms. He was very up front and transparent which lent a lot of credibility.
|
|
|
|
Soros Shorts
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1617
Merit: 1011
|
|
September 28, 2014, 09:54:22 AM |
|
A virgin 50BTC block is rather cool -- but as you say trusting the seller to discard the privkey (securely) is paramount.
Well they certainly don't make them anymore. Should be worth more than 2 x 25BTC blocks.
|
|
|
|
GTA
Member
Offline
Activity: 90
Merit: 10
|
|
September 28, 2014, 03:09:44 PM |
|
You can't trust that, for a premium, mine your own
|
|
|
|
bambino
Member
Offline
Activity: 111
Merit: 10
|
|
September 28, 2014, 04:10:04 PM |
|
Are you trying to buy or to sell? Buying a private key doesn't sound like a great idea. Can't the miner send coins to your own address?
|
|
|
|
Robin_Good
Member
Offline
Activity: 140
Merit: 10
|
|
September 28, 2014, 04:43:23 PM |
|
All bitcoins have the same value. They don't become more valuable just because they're 'fresh'.
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
September 28, 2014, 04:55:35 PM |
|
All bitcoins have the same value. They don't become more valuable just because they're 'fresh'.
That might be the case today. The question you need to ask is whether bitcoin will continue to be completely fungible.
|
|
|
|
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
|
|
September 28, 2014, 05:15:12 PM |
|
All bitcoins have the same value. They don't become more valuable just because they're 'fresh'.
That might be the case today. The question you need to ask is whether bitcoin will continue to be completely fungible. If it does not remain completely fungible then it's useless as a currency just as dollars would be. I would no longer use dollars if I had to stand at a store cashier line and check each bill against a ledger before accepting it.
|
|
|
|
logger
Member
Offline
Activity: 138
Merit: 10
|
|
September 28, 2014, 05:47:35 PM |
|
This topic was discussed extensively a couple years back here on forum so you may want to search there. The Eligius pool always used to mine directly to your address. I think they still do as I checked their most recent block and it has a split gen transaction. I haven't used them in years. Other than that you would need to make a deal with a miner or pool and to my knowledge there hasn't been any settling on premiums.
|
|
|
|
NotAtOld
Member
Offline
Activity: 200
Merit: 10
|
|
September 28, 2014, 06:38:03 PM |
|
You'd have to trust the person you're buying the private key from to not know it in any which way shape or form. Instead, use a split key generation method. This is similar to split key vanity addresses, with the only difference being that you don't really need to bother with the 'vanity' aspect (though you still could, for a premium, say). Google around for how that works. I don't know what premium would apply to minted coins - especially since the service in question would still be involved.. could just as well use a tumbler.
Whether that, in turn, would constitute a laundering service depends on who you talk to. If the service does use split key, then it would not be appropriate for meat space, due to timing constraints.
|
|
|
|
cccarnation
Member
Offline
Activity: 146
Merit: 10
One Token to Move Anything Anywhere
|
|
September 28, 2014, 07:16:39 PM |
|
Can you mine bitcoins to an address where you only got the public key? If only i had the private key i would maybe pay like 101 BTC for 100 BTC mined to my address. So yes there could be a market You only need the address for mining not the private key. The problem is that most mining pools do not disperse shares directly from the generation (coinbase) transaction, so for most pools you would get some mix of non-virgin coins. As mentioned above Eligius and P2pool both directly split the coinbase into shares paid. The downside is this takes 120 confirmations before they can be spent (unless that was changed, I haven't really followed it). In any case whether you or someone else mines the coins go to an address provided. If you wanted to provide a service providing virgin coins then you would accept a customer's address and mine to that address for them. If you wanted to pre-mine such that they can just buy them (without waiting) then they have to trust you as any split key method would requires they provide a public key such that you generate a shared private key that is trustworthy. In which case why not just mine to their address.
|
|
|
|
littlebeetle
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 45
Merit: 0
|
|
September 28, 2014, 08:32:23 PM |
|
Even when mining, bitcoins come from the pool's website. They are not truly virgin coins. Unless you had one of these massive Chinese facilities full of miners, solo-mining would likely not be profitable. It could take many decades before finding a block. I don't think people would pay a premium for virgin coins. Many people already pay extra for coins on LBC, craigslist, and BTM's. Adding another premium for virgin coins just doesn't seem worth it at that point.
|
|
|
|
applesRyummy
|
|
September 28, 2014, 08:42:28 PM |
|
Can you mine bitcoins to an address where you only got the public key? If only i had the private key i would maybe pay like 101 BTC for 100 BTC mined to my address. So yes there could be a market You only need the address for mining not the private key. The problem is that most mining pools do not disperse shares directly from the generation (coinbase) transaction, so for most pools you would get some mix of non-virgin coins. As mentioned above Eligius and P2pool both directly split the coinbase into shares paid. The downside is this takes 120 confirmations before they can be spent (unless that was changed, I haven't really followed it). In any case whether you or someone else mines the coins go to an address provided. If you wanted to provide a service providing virgin coins then you would accept a customer's address and mine to that address for them. If you wanted to pre-mine such that they can just buy them (without waiting) then they have to trust you as any split key method would requires they provide a public key such that you generate a shared private key that is trustworthy. In which case why not just mine to their address. I believe it is actually 100 confirmations now, but this is not the point. You always need to have the block "mature" before the mined coins can be spent, this will always be the case. There is already somewhat of a market for this, is is leased mining hashpower. See betarigs.com and leaserigs.net - you can "rent" other people's miners to be used at the pool of your choice.
|
|
|
|
ticoti
|
|
September 28, 2014, 10:18:23 PM |
|
is there any parsing way to see "virgin" bitcoins?
|
|
|
|
jamesg (OP)
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
|
|
September 28, 2014, 10:25:02 PM |
|
|
|
|
|
mb300sd
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Drunk Posts
|
|
September 29, 2014, 05:05:58 PM |
|
I have approx 300 eligius coins, willing to sell.
|
1D7FJWRzeKa4SLmTznd3JpeNU13L1ErEco
|
|
|
AaronCraig
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
|
|
September 30, 2014, 10:55:50 AM |
|
I hope something like this never catches on, it would ruin the fungibility of Bitcoin, and would disqualify it from ever being called money.
|
|
|
|
Soros Shorts
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1617
Merit: 1011
|
|
September 30, 2014, 11:01:47 AM |
|
I have approx 300 eligius coins, willing to sell.
Are these technically any different from p2pool coins? I have a quite a bit of those. I don't think there is a premium for fractional block virgin coins though.
|
|
|
|
jbreher
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
|
|
September 30, 2014, 06:40:01 PM |
|
I hope something like this never catches on, it would ruin the fungibility of Bitcoin, and would disqualify it from ever being called money.
Nonsense. Like other virgins, they don't regrow their hymen. Once transferred, they are no longer virgin, and therefore their previous virgin status is irrelevant. Their unique value proposition is destroyed upon the first transfer.
|
Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
September 30, 2014, 08:49:44 PM |
|
I hope something like this never catches on, it would ruin the fungibility of Bitcoin, and would disqualify it from ever being called money.
Nonsense. Like other virgins, they don't regrow their hymen. Once transferred, they are no longer virgin, and therefore their previous virgin status is irrelevant. Their unique value proposition is destroyed upon the first transfer. To maintain virgin status that is why the privkey would be transferred and not the coins.
|
|
|
|
paulsonnumismatics
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 265
Merit: 250
Honni Soit Qui Mal i Pense
|
|
September 30, 2014, 10:48:12 PM |
|
Hello Bitcoin Community, I would like to discuss the topic of "virgin" bitcoins. Specifically, I would like to discuss the possibilities of being able to purchase a private key to coins mined directly to paper wallets. I've always found this topic to be interesting and I look forward to your responses.
Best, James
I will contact Sir Richard Branson. If he has awaken with the right feet that morning, he could jump on it. And Virgin Empire adopting BTC... This could be the start of a very crazy, headline-filled , super funny story.
|
This space is for lease, apparently.
|
|
|
jbreher
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
|
|
September 30, 2014, 10:51:32 PM |
|
I hope something like this never catches on, it would ruin the fungibility of Bitcoin, and would disqualify it from ever being called money.
Nonsense. Like other virgins, they don't regrow their hymen. Once transferred, they are no longer virgin, and therefore their previous virgin status is irrelevant. Their unique value proposition is destroyed upon the first transfer. To maintain virgin status that is why the privkey would be transferred and not the coins. And the trust factor is why the privates should not be shared - especially for virgins. Amidst the slightly obscured truism, there is a funny anecdote lurking, but I can't quite tease it out.
|
Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
|
|
|
Jeramom
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
|
|
October 01, 2014, 08:48:20 AM |
|
I know a person that mines specifically for this purpose.
|
|
|
|
digitizedcurrency2010
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
|
|
October 02, 2014, 08:03:58 AM |
|
I have approx 300 eligius coins, willing to sell.
How many would be you willing to sell and where are you located ?
|
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
October 25, 2017, 11:25:18 AM |
|
A friendly bump back from the dead Curious if opinions have changed and whether a market exists today.
|
|
|
|
jbreher
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
|
|
October 25, 2017, 08:12:51 PM |
|
A friendly bump back from the dead Curious if opinions have changed and whether a market exists today. Sure. I'd be interested, but how to accomplish it? I'd be willing to deposit oh... say... 13.5 BTC with a trustable escrow of mutual choosing. Release to miner upon block solved with coinbase block reward to that address. Release back to me as to null and void if unfulfilled by the block halving. All address and other details to remain private, known only to miner, escrow, and me.
|
Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
October 25, 2017, 11:27:25 PM |
|
I was speaking of this in the past tense - blocks already mined.
|
|
|
|
jbreher
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
|
|
October 26, 2017, 12:07:04 AM |
|
I was speaking of this in the past tense - blocks already mined.
There is no way to transfer existing virgin coins unless one is willing to put full trust in the source not to spend them out from underneath. Even the scheme I list above requires putting trust in the source not to reveal the address or other parts of the transaction.
|
Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
|
|
|
JWU42
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
|
|
October 26, 2017, 10:43:37 AM |
|
And as was noted earlier in the thread, what about Casascius coins? They too required trust, no?
|
|
|
|
jbreher
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
|
|
October 26, 2017, 04:42:30 PM |
|
And as was noted earlier in the thread, what about Casascius coins? They too required trust, no?
True. But Mike has already proven himself trustworthy. As an aside, I ain't got none a thems.
|
Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
|
|
|
|