[150TH] [PPLNS 0.5%] Jonny's Mining Emporium (bravo-mining.com)

[bctmke]

Woke up to see Jonny found us a block.

The upside of that is that Jonny gets to keep his 1BTC    (he's done a ton for this pool so there's nothing wrong with that).

Phil as usual has the proper explanations - everyone would be wise to heed his words.

Thanks a ton Jonny!

[1714126293]

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[1714126293]

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[jonnybravo0311]

Actually, I don't qualify for my own promotion... So that means the bonus is still available to the next block finder .  I will keep the promo running.  Same rules as before: 1BTC to the block finder until the pool crosses 110% of expected shares, at which point it goes to 0.9BTC until it crosses 120%, then it becomes 0.8BTC and so on.

[OneInchWonder]

Sweet pool got a block. Congrats everyone.

[kilo17]

Philipma1957,
I appreciate your explanation of the payouts but 5n is 5 times the network difficulty in my understanding, which would be approx. 720,000,000,000 unless the N is defined elsewhere for the pool.  If it is indeed 5n then ALL shares would be paid because we have not hit 5n shares since the pool began.

I could be wrong but I think the pool operator needs to explain the N for the pool.

[valkir]

What you said is true. 5n is 5 times the network difficulty and all share in that range get paid.
But they get paid base on the % of their share.
So let said you have 1 000 000 share out of 5 000 000 total shares, you wil get 1/5 of the block.
If the pool cross the 5n shares than the first share that have been done will start to be revoe from the calculation.

So, let said you mine 1 000 000 at start and we reach 5n. Your 1 000 000 shares will slowly go down.

Hope its more clear.

You get paid for each share you submit base on the total amount of share the pool have.

[kilo17]

What you said is true. 5n is 5 times the network difficulty and all share in that range get paid.
But they get paid base on the % of their share.
So let said you have 1 000 000 share out of 5 000 000 total shares, you wil get 1/5 of the block.
If the pool cross the 5n shares than the first share that have been done will start to be revoe from the calculation.

So, let said you mine 1 000 000 at start and we reach 5n. Your 1 000 000 shares will slowly go down.

Hope its more clear.

You get paid for each share you submit base on the total amount of share the pool have.

I agree but since the pool did not reach 5n then all shares submitted for this block should be paid, correct?

Edit- all shares submitted from ALL 3 found blocks should get paid since we have not reached 5n with all the shares

[valkir]

Correct, they are all paid. Your shares / all shares of the pool = your reward.
The reason some person see their estimated reward going down is that some of us are trowing high quantity of th and then make a lot of share in short time.
Doing 500th for 1 day is like doing 50 th for 10 day. But the system calcul your estimated reward base on the share that are actually done. So when a lot of person come at some point and trown a lot of power, then your estimated reward go down. Because you got a smaller % of all shares.    Simple math 

[kano]

Until the pool reaches 5Nd shares, every block found will pay all shares found since the pool started.

[kilo17]

Until the pool reaches 5Nd shares, every block found will pay all shares found since the pool started.

Correct but it is not paying all shares--I had 1.7 billion shares early in this round and got 0 payout, not including my shares from the last round

[kilo17]

Btw- there are 17 confirmations before payout if you want to correct the problem jonnybravo0311

[philipma1957]

Until the pool reaches 5Nd shares, every block found will pay all shares found since the pool started.

Correct but it is not paying all shares--I had 1.7 billion shares early in this round and got 0 payout, not including my shares from the last round

I see the issue you mention   which is not the ratio issue I mention.

In fact I had some shares dropped.

jonny was sending 2ph when pool was hit and gets overpaid I did not understand why so

 I went to faq and

we need an explanation for this :


http://www.bravo-mining.com/index.php?page=about&action=pool

Q: When will I get paid?
 A: This pool uses the following payout system.

Pay Per Last N Shares (PPLNS) - Block rewards are distributed among the last shares, disregarding round boundaries. In the accurate implementation, the number of shares is deter- mined so that their total will be a specified quantity of score (where the score of a share is the inverse of the difficulty). Most pools use a naive implementation based on a fixed number of shares or a fixed multiple of the difficulty. The share-variance can be reduced at the cost of increased maturity time, but there is no way to decrease the long-term pool-variance.

[kilo17]

No I mentioned the 5n last night and it was not addressed this morning so I thought I needed to bring it up again before the payouts.  

Example:
I had 1.8 billion shares in round 2
I had 1.7 billion shares in round 3

Total pool shares for all 3 rounds are 265 billion

(3.5/265) * 25 = .338 BTC I should receive but I am not receiving any payout.

No shares should be dropping off since only 265 billion shares have been submitted since the pools beginning and 5n is 720 billion.

 

[jonnybravo0311]

Fair points, kilo... I'm looking into it.

[philipma1957]

Fair points, kilo... I'm looking into it.

 yeah I think the implementation is in error.

 you need to add all my hash for 3 blocks and divide  by the pools total for 3 blocks

Actual Shares                Me
7,108,313,121      294,082,802


Actual Shares                 Me

151,774,724,299     1,658,915,689/1,517,414,348
 91,699,693,789      2,126,366,885/1,514,666,826
 21,683,709,476              0/0

[kilo17]

5n may be to much for a small pool because the difficulty is raising faster than the shares are being submitted

[philipma1957]

I see the problem for the 5n.  that kilo17 mentions

aside from that


I do not understand  the reason people are capped at


2,147,483,647


1   rozo                   2,147,483,647   225,421,727   10.50  rozo did way over 2,146,483,647
2   bctmke           2,147,483,647   24,579,291   1.14
3   eghigo           2,147,483,647   14,950,281   0.70
4   jonnybravo   2,147,483,647   60,869,950   2.83   
5   YuenglingDude   2,147,483,647   8,439,623           0.39
6   Underachieved   2,018,459,378   3,483,544           0.17
7   kilo17           1,787,617,883   2,328,366           0.13
8   philipma1957   1,658,915,689   2,069,906      0.12
9   Valkir           1,553,104,548   666,031           0.04
10   njmnokc           1,456,346,814   1,125,239     0.08

[itsnogood]

philipma1957 - I set out my shares per round much like you.

Trouble is I just don't get the maths.


Round           Pool                     Me                 PPLNS
  3        151,774,724,299      394,814,221     170,096,734

  2        91,699,693,789       1,145,636,326   192,489,823

  1        21,683,709,476        205,987,321    205,987,321

I would love a simple explanation of how the shares are calculated and how this relates to any 5n

Edit: Ok, thanks Kilo17.
 'No shares should be dropping off since only 265 billion shares have been submitted since the pools beginning and 5n is 720 billion'

[kilo17]

philipma1957 - I set out my shares per round much like you.

Trouble is I just don't get the maths.


Round           Pool                     Me                 PPLNS
  3        151,774,724,299      394,814,221     170,096,734

  2        91,699,693,789       1,145,636,326   192,489,823

  1        21,683,709,476        205,987,321    205,987,321

The PPLNS share value is not 5n, use your actual share values vs the total share values

[jonnybravo0311]

The pool is currently calculating the payouts based on an average number of shares.  That average is calculated by looking at the shares from the last 5 blocks.  I incorrectly stated the PPLNS was 5N where N was the block difficulty.  That is not how it's working now.  This is the reason why you're seeing the weird share caps and the odd things on the stats pages.  As of now, since the pool hasn't found 5 blocks, it is basing the PPLNS average shares on the previous 3 blocks.  This is why you are seeing round shares, but not seeing any payouts.  Your round shares were dropped from the PPLNS calculation.

There are a couple of options here.

1) We continue on as is.  This round's payouts will be calculated the same as they have been.
2) I try to re-run everything setting the share target as 5N (which would include every share since the pool began).  This would be a manual effort on my part and will take a few more hours to complete.

There are 3 more blocks to confirm before the pool sends the balances to miners.  I can try to stop this from happening... but I don't want to cause any more problems than already exist.

Kilo17, your assessment that 5N might be too much is an accurate one for a pool of this size.  The difficulty is changing faster than the pool is solving blocks - which works out well for the current method of PPLNS that is implemented.  If the pool grew to where we were solving lots of blocks per difficulty change, then 5N would make more sense.

Having written this, I am open to hear thoughts on how people would like to proceed.

My feeling?  Leave it as is for this block's payouts.  I really don't want to start messing around with the database and potentially screw things up worse than they already are for people expecting 5N payouts.

If we all agree, then I can change it to really consider 5N for the next block - I've got all the shares stored in the database anyway.

[jonnybravo0311]

By the way... additionally, if you truly feel that you've been somehow wronged, let me know.  I will pay you out of my own pocket.