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Author Topic: Apparently Chinese Mining Pools are sticking with Core! :)  (Read 3497 times)
mercistheman
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January 21, 2016, 03:56:32 PM
 #21

Anyone else concerned about the potential for collusion here?

well it's all about consensus after all, if the consensus is in the majority chinese from germany, usa or any other country is not important

miners are still not the only important part of bitcoin hopefully, merchants have their importance too and they are not 60%+ chinese...
True.
Does anyone have proof that these minors aren't mining for their government?
Why is China anti bitcoin (merchants, spending btc etc.) yet huge mining farms are perfectly fine?
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January 21, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
 #22

Not only chinese, but I think that most people are likely to stick with the thing that has even been working ok for them while it keeps working, unless they are forced to change. Some people are prone to novelty (i.e. update their OS whenever a new version comes up), but when it is a matter of money, most are likely to stay the same and not risk what they have known to work.

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January 21, 2016, 04:01:06 PM
 #23

Does anyone have proof that these minors aren't mining for their government?
Why is China anti bitcoin (merchants, spending btc etc.) yet huge mining farms are perfectly fine?

Seriously - are you that paranoid and racist?

The Chinese government has had basically nothing to do with Bitcoin apart from preventing exchanges using banks for quite a while (that ceased a few months back).

Its main concern is the movement of RMB outside of China (which every corrupt official tries to do once they get rich).

BTCC (about the biggest and best known Chinese exchange) has an American CEO. So you think he is in cahoots with the Chinese government because he "looks Chinese"?

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January 21, 2016, 04:02:36 PM
 #24

Anyone else concerned about the potential for collusion here?

well it's all about consensus after all, if the consensus is in the majority chinese from germany, usa or any other country is not important

miners are still not the only important part of bitcoin hopefully, merchants have their importance too and they are not 60%+ chinese...
True.
Does anyone have proof that these minors aren't mining for their government?
Why is China anti bitcoin (merchants, spending btc etc.) yet huge mining farms are perfectly fine?


Because they hate western imperialist dogs and are going to get their revenge on us by taking over Bitcoin and making us all use substandard plastic products designed to fail by selling them to Walmart.

mercistheman
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January 21, 2016, 04:08:07 PM
 #25

Does anyone have proof that these minors aren't mining for their government?
Why is China anti bitcoin (merchants, spending btc etc.) yet huge mining farms are perfectly fine?

Seriously - are you that paranoid and racist?

The Chinese government has had basically nothing to do with Bitcoin apart from preventing exchanges using banks for quite a while (that ceased a few months back).

Its main concern is the movement of RMB outside of China (which every corrupt official tries to do once they get rich).

BTCC (about the biggest and best known Chinese exchange) has an American CEO. So you think he is in cahoots with the Chinese government because he "looks Chinese"?

Sure and they have nothing to do with government sponsored cyber trade secret theft either.
Unless you can provide proof then the question is still valid. Again, why are they ok with mining but against bitcoin?
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January 21, 2016, 04:11:13 PM
 #26

Sure and they have nothing to do with government sponsored cyber trade secret theft either.
Unless you can provide proof then the question is still valid. Again, why are they ok with mining but against bitcoin?

Then how about you provide proof rather than insisting that everyone else needs to do so?

You are just making vague and mostly silly claims - the Chinese government had nothing to do with this meeting or what those who were there said (you do realise this or don't you?).

Unless you can provide proof that the Chinese government owns mining companies you are just clutching at straws.

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January 21, 2016, 04:22:54 PM
 #27

It is not surprising at all that Chinese miners would opt to go with Core. They all have 'here and now' mentality, they don't care much about bitcoin future, or growing the network adoption or consumer base.
Every solution increasing blocksize is not good for them because it will diminish theirs earnings.
This is stupid to be honest. You aren't looking at it the right way. Not wanting a block size increase now is precisely the correct long term vision, because you stick with a solid core until we have LN, then we don't need to raise block size again, unless the technology all over the world is advanced enough that everyone could run a node with their computer if you raised it.
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January 21, 2016, 04:25:32 PM
 #28

As far as I can tell, the source is a post by HaoBTC's CEO. On reddit, "KoKansei" claims reading the post and the discussion, you find the writer saying it's his personal opinions, not HaoBTC's official position he was expressing. (https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/41zk79/chinese_pools_withdraw_their_support_for_classic/cz6etuv)

I don't understand Chinese, maybe someone who can, can opine on what seems to be factual and what opinion in the source:
https://www.bikeji.com/t/3144

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January 21, 2016, 07:50:07 PM
 #29


sry smallblockers: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg13632610#msg13632610

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January 21, 2016, 10:53:22 PM
 #30

Sure and they have nothing to do with government sponsored cyber trade secret theft either.
Unless you can provide proof then the question is still valid. Again, why are they ok with mining but against bitcoin?

Then how about you provide proof rather than insisting that everyone else needs to do so?

You are just making vague and mostly silly claims - the Chinese government had nothing to do with this meeting or what those who were there said (you do realise this or don't you?).

Unless you can provide proof that the Chinese government owns mining companies you are just clutching at straws.

Is there any business in communist China that the government doesn't control?  Is there anyone in communist China with money that the government doesn't condone?

It seems the Chinese communist government is nothing but a state capitalist monopoly with the goal of suppressing any dissent whether it be political or economic.

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January 21, 2016, 11:03:04 PM
 #31

It was well pointed out by BitFury's CEO Bitcoin was never designed to be a PayPal (wherever that idea came from I don't know as it isn't actually what Satoshi had written in his white paper).

Bitcoin requires "confirmations" by design (which is why Satoshi never advocated using zero confirmations) and these confirmations take time.

So Bitcoin *is* a settlement network - but it is one unlike any other before (you don't need a license to use it nor expensive hardware). Let's appreciate what Bitcoin is rather than support people trying to change it into something that it isn't.


When Satoshi was talking about buying porn and using vending machines, he wasn't thinking about a high-class settlement layer for the hoy-polloi. It seems he didn't know what we'd end up using Bitcoin for.

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January 22, 2016, 02:22:25 AM
 #32

Is there any business in communist China that the government doesn't control?  Is there anyone in communist China with money that the government doesn't condone?

The government has little to do with the vast majority of businesses in China (and in fact most small businesses don't even pay tax).

One thing you should learn about Chinese is that they rarely co-operate with each other (which is why they are well known not to work well in teams).

Perhaps you should actually come and visit to "see for yourself" that there aren't troops in jackboots walking around controlling what is going on.  Roll Eyes

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January 22, 2016, 03:43:17 AM
 #33

I heard that is a fake news and the fact that someone is spreading fake news indicated that the political campaign has entered china  Grin

Miners might not want to change because a 1MB fixed block forever will make them rich, especially now the hard competition already made their profit very thin

However, I see this as a future problem that miners overtake the control of bitcoin and there is no way to fight against it

Imagine that world government have implemented new rules to regulate all large mining pools so that they only can process non blacklisted transactions (blockchain analysis is the new trend), and all the transactions must be traceable to its owner with name and address, this will make the trace highly practical from AML and KYC point of view. As a bitcoin user, you just can not do anything about it, because all your transactions are processed by government regulated mining nodes

You can change to another algo like skrypt, then again those large mining pools will be regulated if there are just a few, and with a lower hash cost coin, the value of the coin also goes down until it reaches mining cost

So it is very important to decentralize the mining, since controlling the mining nodes is much more effective than control the other part of bitcoin ecosystem, it is equal to control the central bank of a monetary system. We know that central bank is independent from the government, in this case, large mining pools have no way to reach that kind of independence

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January 22, 2016, 03:57:35 AM
 #34

I am standing strong behind the consensus as defined by Satoshi Nakamoto.

Long live Bitcoin!

Hear Hear!

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January 22, 2016, 06:47:27 AM
 #35

Is there any business in communist China that the government doesn't control?  Is there anyone in communist China with money that the government doesn't condone?

The government has little to do with the vast majority of businesses in China (and in fact most small businesses don't even pay tax).

One thing you should learn about Chinese is that they rarely co-operate with each other (which is why they are well known not to work well in teams).

Perhaps you should actually come and visit to "see for yourself" that there aren't troops in jackboots walking around controlling what is going on.  Roll Eyes


The PRC is the very definition of state capitalism.  No great enterprise is undertaken without the direct consent of the government.  Small business isn't a threat to state capitalism and thus is left to its own devices.  Anything which threatens the monopoly of the state is destroyed.  They only deploy the "jackboots" as a last resort.

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
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January 22, 2016, 06:55:59 AM
 #36

The thing that I do see here, is a lot of misinformation and a lack of communication going around. I like the fact that CIYAM can contest most of these false claims and comments. I would have wanted to see some more Chinese miners coming on here and explaining their side too.

There are a lot of conspiracy theories going around, and these things tend to cause friction and trust issues. If I was a investor from the western world and I hear that the gears of a technology are mostly operated by a traditional Eastern Communist country, I will have some concerns.

On the other hand, if I were a investor from the other side, and I see that the system development and maintenance are mostly being dominated by a group of Capitalist western countries, I would also have concerns.

Communication coming from both sides will decrease the gap between this divide and the Core group are doing just that.  

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January 22, 2016, 06:58:21 AM
 #37

They must have thougjt it was Josh Garza trying to sell them a hashlet







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January 22, 2016, 07:15:17 AM
 #38

The PRC is the very definition of state capitalism.  No great enterprise is undertaken without the direct consent of the government.  Small business isn't a threat to state capitalism and thus is left to its own devices.  Anything which threatens the monopoly of the state is destroyed.  They only deploy the "jackboots" as a last resort.

Well I seriously doubt that any private company can just say build a freeway without government consent in the US either (i.e. all governments control what can and cannot be done by major companies).

If the Chinese government has been taking over mining operations can you please show the evidence of this (because major players that are owned and controlled by Americans aren't complaining about this)?

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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January 22, 2016, 07:18:17 AM
 #39

I heard that is a fake news and the fact that someone is spreading fake news indicated that the political campaign has entered china  Grin

Miners might not want to change because a 1MB fixed block forever will make them rich, especially now the hard competition already made their profit very thin

However, I see this as a future problem that miners overtake the control of bitcoin and there is no way to fight against it

Imagine that world government have implemented new rules to regulate all large mining pools so that they only can process non blacklisted transactions (blockchain analysis is the new trend), and all the transactions must be traceable to its owner with name and address, this will make the trace highly practical from AML and KYC point of view. As a bitcoin user, you just can not do anything about it, because all your transactions are processed by government regulated mining nodes

You can change to another algo like skrypt, then again those large mining pools will be regulated if there are just a few, and with a lower hash cost coin, the value of the coin also goes down until it reaches mining cost

So it is very important to decentralize the mining, since controlling the mining nodes is much more effective than control the other part of bitcoin ecosystem, it is equal to control the central bank of a monetary system. We know that central bank is independent from the government, in this case, large mining pools have no way to reach that kind of independence
It is not the subject of current block size increase debase. Very interesting idea! if some governments are involving at bitcoin mining, I can say bitcoin's price will be doubled in short time. Then the hash power will be dramatically increasing as well.


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January 22, 2016, 07:30:53 AM
 #40

I was expecting this news to show up. With china leading in the mining space for Bitcoins and most of them supporting to stick to Bitcoin core, there isn't much hope for Bitcoin Classic and XT.

The Chinese people are intelligent, kind, united, and freedom loving.

What many here obviously don't understand is how a people that has been repressed for centuries yearns for liberation like a drowning man seeks shore. And they aren't going to be fooled quite as easily by the "Classic" tricks of establishment rule.

Bitcoin can only survive, united at its "Core". The Chinese miners have wisely made the correct decision once again.



you sound happy they went with core

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