Prevention is better than a cure. Please escrow.

[jonanon]

Escrow is very well and good but you are still putting trust in other people who may have a difference of opinion to the seller in terms of a dispute.

I firmly believe that buyers should be responsible for doing all the due diligence that they see fit before sending payment for any goods or services, common sense, above all else, should tell you if you're going to be ripped off or not.

If someone wants to sell something it is the buyers prerogative to make absolutely sure that the seller is genuine - of course it has hard to be certain that newer members are 100% legitimate - if you have doubt don't deal with them. Using an escrow service is fine, but I don't believe it is the future, especially for online retailers as they are not likely to accept BTC if escrow is required, it's simply too time consuming.

If a brand new member claims to have 1000 BTC and wants to sell, without even offering proof of wallet ownership - don't bother asking for escrow - it's simply a scam, move on. But if someone is trying to sell a small amount of BTC from a long time account and you are interested, it is for the buyer to meet the sellers terms if they choose to respond to the advert. The buyer after all did not advertise 'Selling $100 for 0.15 BTC, message if interested'.

I hate scams as much as anyone else, it's awful for people to contemplate stealing someone else's BTC or anything else for that matter. But if I want to sell something - you meet my terms. Just as if I want to buy something from you I would expect to meet your terms. I think only this way is the future for BTC. Use care and common sense and you should be OK.



 

[hostmaster]

I agreed  about using escrow thank you for share.

[gidi337]

i think people should have the details of any escrow service such as telephone number and address and next of kin telephone number.

not necessarily people who do escrow have to give out sensitive information but people should be advised only to use those who do

after all those people are holding our money.

see here (i am not affiliated and not promoting)  maidek offers escrow  see here   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133985.0  with phone number and his ebay details  which is a start.

i am only reporting this after seeing john k disappear for over a month without leaving a trace behind him and he was the biggest one.  he was always honest and was a college student but anyone who had money by him is now stuck with no contact.

see here and further posts  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141672.msg4275680#msg4275680

just my 0.2BTC

if anyone finds anything wrong with this post pls contact and i can edit or remove it

[elasticband]

good advice ^


hope you are keeping well

[AndrewK]

Ok,

I think there needs to be some new rules established for this forum. There are way too many scams going on in the marketplace and too many new users showing up with lots of pricey hardware for sale with little or no proof that they own it.

That said, I think some simple rules and regulations for posting in classifieds would be very helpful.

1. All for sale threads MUST have atleast one picture of the physical item you are selling which includes a piece of paper with user name and date in the shot. This is required on many other forums and is a no-brainer.

2. A list of payment options posted in the very first post with it clearly stated whether escrow is accepted or not and who the preferred escrow provider would be.

Finally. Its been a while since I was a newbie but if I remember correctly. There were requirements for post counts etc. before posting in the rest of the site. I think it would be nice if these were made a little stricter for the marketplace section... something like >50 posts required.

Thanks,

[malevolent]

As a mod here I don't want to intervene too much, and tell people how they should do business, and your proposed changes won't stop people from scamming and getting scammed .

In the past one had to make 4 posts and stay online for 4 hours (cumulatively) to be able to post outside the newbies' section, now it's 1 post & 4h. The 50 posts requirement to post in Marketplace wouldn't be much of a deterrent because there are plenty of people that post more than that daily, it would make more sense if it was based on Activity but I would still be against such measures as it would only stop the laziest and the most obvious scammers.

[AndrewK]

I understand where u are coming from... but from what I can tell... about half of the newbie posts in hardware are obvious scams. It makes it tedious to even browse hardware...

[HemiTruck]

As a rule of thumb, NEVER pay for escrow services. Tipping someone doing it voluntarily is something different. If someone wants to be paid (usually a small amount), don't you think they'd be happy to take your "escrowed" funds as an additional form of "payment"? I say escrow ONLY w/mods or users with an extensive blemish free-trade history. I've posted somewhere else, but I will volunteer my escrow services. Do your due-diligence on me before you take me up on it though

I do require a fee for more substantial trades now (50+BTC) to deal with the extended risk. An escrow that requires no fees for bigger deals is either someone who's really good(as he is effectively looking at negative ROI with the risk) or someone who will run if any problems arises. (getting hacked etc)

John Q sir,

I have an idea to do a major and neat raffle for a truck that is worth BTC30. Looking to get around 35 and give a 2 BTC for your services. Please PM if interested and I am also open to any suggestions in how to make legit and make it work. Thank you.

[Gazza1]

Escrow protects the buyer, but how does it protect the seller?  What if the buyer makes false claims of broken hardware, etc?

Please someone let me know, I am interested in selling some things and want to make sure everything will go smooth.

[hawkjunkie]

Where can I find a list of escrow services providers? 

[JessyMatt]

No Paypal, no Western Union, No credit cards, no checks for me...ONLY escrow. I've learned my lessons

[malevolent]

Where can I find a list of escrow services providers? 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108716.0

[Dabs]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276897.0

This one is more updated.

[Gazza1]

Escrow protects the buyer, but how does it protect the seller?  What if the buyer makes false claims of broken hardware, etc?

Please someone let me know, I am interested in selling some things and want to make sure everything will go smooth.

I am still wondering about this.  Anyone?

[whatsthestory]

Thanks  man for a  list of escrow services providers. That's good to use it as you can make sure there is no scam.

[Kluge]

Escrow protects the buyer, but how does it protect the seller?  What if the buyer makes false claims of broken hardware, etc?

Please someone let me know, I am interested in selling some things and want to make sure everything will go smooth.

I am still wondering about this.  Anyone?

Man-in-the-middle is a partial solution, but there's no way to fully solve it AFAIK. The escrow provider is shipped the item from the seller, escrow provider verifies its contents and can probably test any hardware for a couple hours, and then the escrow provider ships it to the buyer. That's expensive, though, and doesn't definitively rule out electronics, in particular, getting banged up in the shipping process from the escrow provider to the buyer.

The most reasonable way to go about it is to just honor refunds like virtually every online seller on Earth. Have a brief testing window in the purchase agreement - maybe two or three days from the time it's delivered. If the buyer says it's DoA, he pays shipping back and is fully refunded what was held in escrow. The brief refund window makes the shipping costs on the buyer's side too expensive to lie about for profit, unlike 30-90 day refund windows with companies like Newegg or Tiger Direct.

[waqas007]

yes escrow is safe for both seller and buyer

[Gazza1]

Escrow protects the buyer, but how does it protect the seller?  What if the buyer makes false claims of broken hardware, etc?

Please someone let me know, I am interested in selling some things and want to make sure everything will go smooth.

I am still wondering about this.  Anyone?

Man-in-the-middle is a partial solution, but there's no way to fully solve it AFAIK. The escrow provider is shipped the item from the seller, escrow provider verifies its contents and can probably test any hardware for a couple hours, and then the escrow provider ships it to the buyer. That's expensive, though, and doesn't definitively rule out electronics, in particular, getting banged up in the shipping process from the escrow provider to the buyer.

The most reasonable way to go about it is to just honor refunds like virtually every online seller on Earth. Have a brief testing window in the purchase agreement - maybe two or three days from the time it's delivered. If the buyer says it's DoA, he pays shipping back and is fully refunded what was held in escrow. The brief refund window makes the shipping costs on the buyer's side too expensive to lie about for profit, unlike 30-90 day refund windows with companies like Newegg or Tiger Direct.

Very good, thank you

[Satterfield]

Escrow is better then nothing.

[jparsley]

Thanks for the escrow list