Thoughts on Zcash?

[bbc.reporter]

@TrueAnon. I had the same reaction here. Zcash is overvalued it seems. That is the effect of a corporate entity getting itself involved at the start of development. They need to see the profits immediately flowing. So I speculate is that they will dump their coins as soon as they receive them from those poor miners.

Poloniex should put this available for margin trading right away at release.

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[sofu]

I guess it will go above  $100 with hype and fomo when it get listed on poloniex 

[helloeverybody]

i dont like the way this coin has been released to investors. it seems only the elite can buy into it for now meaning once the coin actually releases everyone else who was interested in the coin has to buy at inflated prices. The only people that are going to make money on this coin are those who are already rich and now just increasing their wealth. I wont be buying into zcash for this reason.

[wachtwoord]

i dont like the way this coin has been released to investors. it seems only the elite can buy into it for now meaning once the coin actually releases everyone else who was interested in the coin has to buy at inflated prices. The only people that are going to make money on this coin are those who are already rich and now just increasing their wealth. I wont be buying into zcash for this reason.

Well good luck to the elite then. Who the hell would want to hold this piece of shit coin?

[thepo1m]

Do we already have an idea of the initial price / market cap of Zcash ?

1 Zcash token is already valued arround $15. The private investors like Roger Ver and Sibert paid around $15 for a token. I am not sure if the market will agreed with their valuation

[stereotype]

i dont like the way this coin has been released to investors. it seems only the elite can buy into it for now meaning once the coin actually releases everyone else who was interested in the coin has to buy at inflated prices. The only people that are going to make money on this coin are those who are already rich and now just increasing their wealth. I wont be buying into zcash for this reason.

Who the hell would want to hold this piece of shit coin?

No need to     
https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ZECZ16

[someone111]

No need to     
https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ZECZ16

How can they trade zcash if it was not yet released?

[CredaCash]

Mobile device support will likely be a no-no too, as the POUR process takes about 2 minutes to run on that i7, so mobile devices will be 10x at least.  Punchy hardware only please for that   Im not aware of any performance improvements recently though (and I haven't really had the time to check up), so if anyone knows of any information, I'd appreciate a link/reference to it.

CredaCash uses a similar zero knowledge proof and can create a private transaction in 3-6 seconds.  It was started as an independent project long before Zcash was announced and is currently in beta.  The bitcoin talk announcement is at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1629155.0 , there's a Windows x64 executable at https://credacash.com/software/ and the source code is at https://github.com/credacash/

[dinofelis]

How can they trade zcash if it was not yet released?

Because if a crypto coin is essentially just a trading token between "greater fool" betters on exchanges, *you do not even need a block chain*.  Only an IOU on a web site to trade it.

And maybe zcash is on something here: after all, what is more anonymous than a non-existent coin

One only trades its ghost as IOU on a web site.

This is the natural successor of an ICO.  You offer the IOU, and you trade it.  No coin, no block chain, no software, no mining, no hassle.  Brilliant, no ?

[stereotype]

No need to     
https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ZECZ16

How can they trade zcash if it was not yet released?

Its a futures contract, so you are not actually trading the coin. You trade the contract as per its specification/conditions, which is decided by Bitmex.

[jacafbiz]

No need to     
https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ZECZ16

How can they trade zcash if it was not yet released?

Its a futures contract, so you are not actually trading the coin. You trade the contract as per its specification/conditions, which is decided by Bitmex.

The price of 1Zcash is $51 = 0.086377, do you believe it is worth that valuation at the moment

[dinofelis]

The price of 1Zcash is $51 = 0.086377, do you believe it is worth that valuation at the moment

This is *almost* the right question...  The right question is: "do you believe that sufficient people will believe it is worth that valuation at the moment ?"

[stereotype]

No need to    
https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ZECZ16

How can they trade zcash if it was not yet released?

Its a futures contract, so you are not actually trading the coin. You trade the contract as per its specification/conditions, which is decided by Bitmex.

The price of 1Zcash is $51 = 0.086377, do you believe it is worth that valuation at the moment

On something so unknown and synthetic, no, personally. Im keeping my cynical head on for now and treating it like yet another shitcoin. However, the people on board, make it interesting, somewhat. The old saying in trading/investing, is 'follow the smart money.' With Ver, Zamfir, Silbert, Voorhees, etc on board, peeps are doing exactly that. And remember, for a time, its valued by the amount someone else is prepared to pay for it.
This is shortable, so its going to be a roller coaster ride for a while, while traders speculate what fair value is.
In any event, it will sure enough follow the same charting patterns as past high volume new coins. Get you're overlays ready when spot-trading starts!    

[thejaytiesto]

How can they trade zcash if it was not yet released?

Because if a crypto coin is essentially just a trading token between "greater fool" betters on exchanges, *you do not even need a block chain*.  Only an IOU on a web site to trade it.

And maybe zcash is on something here: after all, what is more anonymous than a non-existent coin

One only trades its ghost as IOU on a web site.

This is the natural successor of an ICO.  You offer the IOU, and you trade it.  No coin, no block chain, no software, no mining, no hassle.  Brilliant, no ?

It's very risky... you are stuck holding the coins on the website, if the exchange closes, your money is gone forever, not even tracked inside a blockchain.

Personally I still don't see the point of ZCash if you have to trust the creators in destroying the masterkey..

[c4s7or]

The more I read about Zcash the more I think its totally overhyped.

[J1mb0]

The more I read about Zcash the more I think its totally overhyped.

what would make sense is a Zcash sidechain over Monero core.

If my memory serves maxwell mentioned Bytecoin, not Monero.  

Damm! Will probably get more trust spammed by the Monerologists. 

[J1mb0]

unless I'm mistaken Monero is a fork of Bytecoin

Correct!

and 2 years later I would not call it a fork anymore it is its own coin.

Subjective - but I would not disagree.

However the post quoted mentioned Bytecoin - no mention of Monero. If folk want to rewrite history at least obfuscate your sources! 

[dinofelis]

unless I'm mistaken Monero is a fork of Bytecoin

Correct!

and 2 years later I would not call it a fork anymore it is its own coin.

Subjective - but I would not disagree.

However the post quoted mentioned Bytecoin - no mention of Monero. If folk want to rewrite history at least obfuscate your sources!  

Monero is, as far as I understand, not a FORK of bytecoin, but a clone.  Bytecoin was the first implementation of a cryptonote coin ; but the cryptonote developers made a "kit" to invent your own cryptonote coin.  There have been several, of which bytecoin, and monero.

As far as I understand, bytecoin has been involved with some premine scandals, as a few other cryptonote clones are.  Essentially, the claim was that when bytecoin came to be known here, that it was "already used for 2 years on the dark markets", to justify that most of the bytecoin coins had already been mined.  There is serious doubt about these two years of unknown existence "on the dark markets", especially after that there was a bug in the original cryptonote software that allowed for very high initial mining rates.    Monero has been less or not involved in these issues.

That said, the true, original "bitcoin" of cryptonote technology (invented by a certain "Nicolas Van Saberhagen" - the Satoshi of cryptonote) is not monero, but bytecoin.  Monero is just a clone of it, but one that is simply perceived as being less of a premine scam than the original bytecoin one.

At this point, monero has its own history and development, and is not a pure cryptonote clone any more.

At least, that is how I understand the history of this.

Essentially, it is as if one had found out that Satoshi had been a premine scammer, and that he claimed that he invented bitcoin in 2007, that it had been used on the dark markets, and that he now brought it to the rest of the world, after having mined a good deal of all bitcoin, while he essentially had generated a falsely timestamped block chain in 2009.  Then probably litecoin would now be nr 1.

If one talks about "monero" one often means "cryptonote technology", as monero is now its most well known representative.  But historically, it was bytecoin that brought it out.

[numismatist]

Because if a crypto coin is essentially just a trading token between "greater fool" betters on exchanges, *you do not even need a block chain*.  Only an IOU on a web site to trade it.

And maybe zcash is on something here: after all, what is more anonymous than a non-existent coin

One only trades its ghost as IOU on a web site.

This is the natural successor of an ICO.  You offer the IOU, and you trade it.  No coin, no block chain, no software, no mining, no hassle.  Brilliant, no ?

Fucking brilliant   I do wonder why peeps still waste time on software development, or burn computing power on their quest to get richt quick

[c789]

Yes. Monero came from Bytecoin, but Monero has made so many improvements over it and other CN-based coins. Even people who are not C/C++ devs can peruse the Github repositories for each project and see how vastly different the Monero code has become (although I imagine it wouldn't be fun reading for a non-dev).

As for Zcash being overhyped and overpriced, yes, definitely. Of course I'm a fan of Monero but $15 for unreleased Zcash? That is ridiculous especially when you have to trust that it was set up correctly. Isn't a main point of crypto is that it's secured by math and not by people? If people have be to trusted then it's flawed from the start. Then there's the issue of the devs tap-dancing and not giving straight answers about the trusted setup and who is involved in the trusted setup (see https://blog.okturtles.com/2016/03/the-zcash-catch/ and the comments at the bottom). And then there's the issue of several people from the banking industry and govt-related people on their team (see their site)...not exactly trustworthy types. And then there's the high number of influential big players involved (some are mentioned in previous posts).

My guess is that the launch will produce a lot of money...for the owners and insiders, and probably a few investors. The average Joe may be able to make some money if they time it right.

Personally I don't care very much for the money-making potential. My main interest is in the true privacy and untraceability of a coin. There's a reason the dark markets (who must have privacy and untraceability) chose Monero and not the others, and even SIGAINT said it wouldn't use Zcash when it was released (EDIT:  http://monero7tukbkxn57.onion/). I have nothing to do with the dark markets but I like the idea of nobody knowing how much or how little I have, and I don't want to have to trust a team of bankers, industry titans, and govt-involved folks with my money or the movement of my money. So Zcash is out for me.