Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another?

[watashi-kokoto]

Sorry, my mistake.

These two are only strongly affiliated with blockstream. Not employees.

I will have proof in a minute, working really hard here.

A Ty jaką masz wymówkę, by nie wychodzić z piwnicy?

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[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Sorry, my mistake.

These two are only strongly affiliated with blockstream. Not employees.

I will have proof in a minute, working really hard here.

A Ty jaką masz wymówkę, by nie wychodzić z piwnicy?

I don't have time for this offtopic.

Also, this discussion is in english.

[CIYAM]

Okay - well I am lost with the trolling (and being accused of being a troll) and the supposed stats and the rest of it.

If you'd like to start a reasonable conversation then I can do that (and I can do that in English).

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

No-one is using Bitcoin for normal txs

Is this even supposed to be a serious argument ? Enlighten me, because I really don't know how to take this.

[tAP]

Sorry, my mistake.

These two are only strongly affiliated with blockstream. Not employees.

I will have proof in a minute, working really hard here.

A Ty jaką masz wymówkę, by nie wychodzić z piwnicy?

LOL always so personal on this forum

[CIYAM]

I'm sorry - the image of some old, fat (possibly angry) woman is supposed to mean?

[knight22]

Whether or not we should adopt a 2MB block size increase ASAP, or not - and good, logical reasons to support each side.

I see zero logical reason to do that.

No-one is using Bitcoin for normal txs and that isn't going to change this year or next year.

A small group of people are trying to "take over the project" by pushing about this need for everyone to be able to use Bitcoin to buy "coffee".

Please provide evidences of that claim because that seems to be only assumptions (I, for one, use bitcoin for normal txs and expect to increase my usage over time).

[tAP]

No-one is using Bitcoin for normal txs

Is this even supposed to be a serious argument ? Enlighten me, because I really don't know how to take this.

Maybe I am in the minority but I use Bitcoin for as many transactions as I can. Anything I can buy with Bitcoin, I do.  It's not spam, either as Luke JR would have people believe.  Just because you buy  coffee doesn't make it spam because it's less than 100 bucks.  What's the cap on spam?  If I spend 200 is it spam?  1000?  When am I no longer 'spamming?'

I'm certainly not paying EXTRA fees to use SIDECHAINS to do my normal purchases that Bitcoin blockchain is more than capable of handling.

[oakpacific]

Then, I guess, perhaps we could agree that, hard fork the network with the support of just 6 pool operators, and one month "grace period", while completely disregarding the response of the network of full nodes at the time, like what the Bitcoin Classic people are very clear about what they are trying to do, is very undemocratic and should not be supported?

If the pool operators were the only ones interested in >1MB blocks then this would fail since most users and merchants would reject their larger blocks. this is not the case however...these companies are supporting it too:

Coinbase
OKCoin
Bitstamp
Blockchain.info (Peter Smith)
Xapo
Bitcoin.com
Foldapp
Bread Wallet
Snapcard.io
Cubits
Vaultoro
Coinify
Bitso
Bitnet
BitOasis
Lamassu
BlockCypher
BitQuick.co
itBit
BitAccess
Coinfinity
Chronos Crypto

How are companies, most of them centralized services, even supposed to be in this argument bewilders me. They have no place in Bitcoin's original design, and they don't add anything to the democratic value of the whole hard fork campaign, I hope you don't think their support are nearly as good as a real referendum being held? Heck we don't even have any idea how much they account for all the Bitcoin business activities!

[tAP]

Please provide evidences of that claim because that seems to be only assumptions (I, for one, use bitcoin for normal txs and expect to increase my usage over time).

Thank you.  Likewise.

[CIYAM]

So - how did you get your BTC in order to buy coffees?

(are you paid in BTC for your work and if so how is that done?)

(you people that say that you have BTC to buy coffees are actually hated in the poor world where they have no BTC at all - so I hope you are proud of the fact that you make most poorer people feel sick when you complain that you can't buy coffee for BTC when they cannot even hope to get any BTC at all)

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

I'm sorry - the image of some old, fat (possibly angry) woman is supposed to mean?

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ?".

So, you are seriously claiming that nobody is using Bitcoin for "normal transactions" today ?

How did you even come with such a ridiculous argument ?

FYI: Companies such as Bitpay, InPay, Coinbase, Purse.IO process tens of thousands of normal people's "normal transactions" every month. Are you arguing that we don't need that ?

[CIYAM]

FYI: Companies such as Bitpay, InPay, Coinbase, Purse.IO process tens of thousands of normal people's "normal transactions" every month. Are you arguing that we don't need that ?

I am not in dispute about the existence of such companies (which btw only convert BTC to USD so really aren't helping anything much at all).

None of the merchants using such companies are receiving BTC (they are just receiving USD).

[tAP]

So - how did you get your BTC in order to buy coffees?

(are you paid in BTC for your work and if so how is that done?)

(you people that say that you have BTC to buy coffees are actually hated in the poor world where they have no BTC at all - so I hope you are proud of the fact that you make most poorer people feel sick when you complain that you can't buy coffee for BTC when they cannot even hope to get any BTC at all)

What kind of argument is that?  I'm a teacher, I make less than 33k a year.  I am hardly rich by my countries standards (I qualify for social assistance for the love of god).  I buy my BTC through multiple sources.  I also participate on Purse.io so that I actually DO help people in areas who can't buy BTC like me get BTC for rates cheaper than Localbitcoins.com.  

If I concerned myself with every purchase I make, and how that would make someone who can't afford it feel, life wouldn't even be worth living.  I don't reprimand people who make more money than me for buying a nicer car than I can afford... what?

[CIYAM]

What kind of argument is that?  I'm a teacher, I make less than 33k a year.  I am hardly rich by my countries standards (I qualify for social assistance for the love of god).  I buy my BTC through multiple sources.  I also participate on Purse.io so that I actually DO help people in areas who can't buy BTC like me get BTC for rates cheaper than Localbitcoins.com.  

If I concerned myself with every purchase I make, and how that would make someone who can't afford it feel, life wouldn't even be worth living.  I don't reprimand people who make more money than me for buying a nicer car than I can afford... what?

If you really want to waste your BTC on coffee then that is up to you.

But it you really think that Bitcoin is more than just a PayPal replacement why on earth would you do that?

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

FYI: Companies such as Bitpay, InPay, Coinbase, Purse.IO process tens of thousands of normal people's "normal transactions" every month. Are you arguing that we don't need that ?

I am not in dispute about the existence of such companies.

Yes you are. Perhaps you don't realize that.

Normal shops are probably never gonna bother with accepting Bitcoin directly, the same as they will not bother with accepting VISA or Mastercard directly. That's what payment processors are for.

So basically, by saying that "Bitcoin shouldn't be used for normal transactions" you are actually saying that all of these companies should go out of business. (because Bitcoin shouldn't be used for buying coffee or some other ridiculous thing).

EDIT:
Anyway, that is absolutely ridiculous argument and I hope you understand that this argument has no power in this discussion.
Please skip to the next one.

[knight22]

So - how did you get your BTC in order to buy coffees?

(are you paid in BTC for your work and if so how is that done?)

I got paid with bitcoin for translation services a few times. I am not sure how is this relevant to the discussion though...

(you people that say that you have BTC USD to buy coffees are actually hated in the poor world where they have no BTC USD  at all - so I hope you are proud of the fact that you make most poorer people feel sick when you complain that you can't buy coffee for BTC USD when they cannot even hope to get any BTC USD at all)

I really don't understand that argument but same can be said with USD no?

[tAP]

What kind of argument is that?  I'm a teacher, I make less than 33k a year.  I am hardly rich by my countries standards (I qualify for social assistance for the love of god).  I buy my BTC through multiple sources.  I also participate on Purse.io so that I actually DO help people in areas who can't buy BTC like me get BTC for rates cheaper than Localbitcoins.com.  

If I concerned myself with every purchase I make, and how that would make someone who can't afford it feel, life wouldn't even be worth living.  I don't reprimand people who make more money than me for buying a nicer car than I can afford... what?

If you really want to waste your BTC on coffee then that is up to you.

But it you really think that Bitcoin is more than just a PayPal replacement why on earth would you do that?

Please stop putting words in my mouth.  I never said BTC was Visa, nor did I say it was Paypal.  I also don't think I am "wasting" BTC on my purchases.

Every single bit I spend I buy back, immediately, to replenish my stock.  I spend Bitcoin to support the network (there would be no miners if there were no transactions to confirm) and because sometimes you get great deals, like Purse.io.

[CIYAM]

So basically, by saying that "Bitcoin shouldn't be used for normal transactions" you are actually saying that all of these companies should go out of business. (because Bitcoin shouldn't be used for buying coffee or some other ridiculous thing).

Why is it that you want to keep putting "words into my mouth" which I don't do to you?

A basic standard of respect is not doing that.

So I am simply going to not respond to you now as you can't even manage a basic level of respect (you have to shove words into my mouth to make your points).

[tAP]

So - how did you get your BTC in order to buy coffees?

(are you paid in BTC for your work and if so how is that done?)

(you people that say that you have BTC to buy coffees are actually hated in the poor world where they have no BTC at all - so I hope you are proud of the fact that you make most poorer people feel sick when you complain that you can't buy coffee for BTC when they cannot even hope to get any BTC at all)

You know you are probably hated in the poor world where they have no [insert currency of your choice] to buy internet?  Are you proud of the fact that you make poor people feel sick by using the internet and having internet access?