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Author Topic: Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another?  (Read 37966 times)
CIYAM
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January 29, 2016, 05:35:18 PM
 #181

Please stop putting words in my mouth.  I never said BTC was Visa, nor did I say it was Paypal.  I also don't think I am "wasting" BTC on my purchases.

Every single bit I spend I buy back, immediately, to replenish my stock.  I spend Bitcoin to support the network (there would be no miners if there were no transactions to confirm) and because sometimes you get great deals, like Purse.io.

What you're saying makes no sense.

Do you really understand what Bitcoin is?

(clue - it is not a new payment system)

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tAP
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January 29, 2016, 05:35:54 PM
 #182

So basically, by saying that "Bitcoin shouldn't be used for normal transactions" you are actually saying that all of these companies should go out of business. (because Bitcoin shouldn't be used for buying coffee or some other ridiculous thing).

Why is it that you want to keep putting "words into my mouth" which I don't do to you?

A basic standard of respect is not doing that.

So I am simply going to not respond to you now as you can't even manage a basic level of respect (you have to shove words into my mouth to make your points).



WHATTTTTT?!?! You just have been doing this to me, and I called you out above your post!! LOL

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."

LP Hartley
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January 29, 2016, 05:36:06 PM
 #183


What you're saying makes no sense.

Do you really understand what Bitcoin is?

(clue - it is not a new payment system)


According to who?

watashi-kokoto
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January 29, 2016, 05:36:33 PM
 #184

A zero fee guy and poor guy enter the thread

Both have no idea how Bitcoin actually work, yet for some reason they feel highly qualified on the subject.

And their goal is, to complain about the injustice that poor companies that can't afford the 1 cent fee are forced to use Dogecoin.
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January 29, 2016, 05:36:45 PM
 #185

You know you are probably hated in the poor world where they have no [insert currency of your choice] to buy internet?  Are you proud of the fact that you make poor people feel sick by using the internet and having internet access?

Well - actually that is exactly where I pointed out that you are.

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January 29, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
 #186

You know you are probably hated in the poor world where they have no [insert currency of your choice] to buy internet?  Are you proud of the fact that you make poor people feel sick by using the internet and having internet access?

Well - actually that is exactly where I pointed out that you are.


Mine is a joke, because that point is so ridiculous.

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."

LP Hartley
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January 29, 2016, 05:38:18 PM
 #187

This thread has gotten so far off topic.  Good luck everyone, I'm not feeding the trolls anymore.

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."

LP Hartley
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January 29, 2016, 05:38:26 PM
 #188

...
I mean what the hell are we even talking about ? Are you even familiar with the events of last 2 weeks ? The events of last 10 days should be enough for every good, honest & truthful person to hate Blockstream & Bitcoin Core for eternity !

I got the feeling we are not on the same page here.


Go easy on the meds.  If you are advocating hard fork in this environment, you better sell all bitcoins, because if it happens it will be over for bitcoin.

Other coins will fill the void.

Either way, people who want hard fork now thinking the price will shoot up are not thinking straight.

For me bitcoin was NEVER about the money.  The original principles and vision was what attracted me to bitcoin.  I see efforts to destroy this vision.

If you think core is harming bitcoin, wait for classic (and number of hard forks, altcoins: Bitcoin Unleashed, Bitcoin Hard to Kill, Bitcoin II, Bitcoin Fort Knox, World Wide Bitcoin etc.) and see what happens.   Do you even know what are you advocating?

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January 29, 2016, 05:38:33 PM
 #189

So basically, by saying that "Bitcoin shouldn't be used for normal transactions" you are actually saying that all of these companies should go out of business. (because Bitcoin shouldn't be used for buying coffee or some other ridiculous thing).

Why is it that you want to keep putting "words into my mouth" which I don't do to you?

A basic standard of respect is not doing that.

So I am simply going to not respond to you now as you can't even manage a basic level of respect (you have to shove words into my mouth to make your points).
Man, You're good at this.

You managed to stray everybody off topic again.

What you said before:
Quote from: CIYAM
No-one is using Bitcoin for normal txs and that isn't going to change this year or next year.

So, this was your original argument. And it is complete bullshit, because (there's a lot of proof) there are multiple companies making millions by doing "normal txs".

Please go to the next argument, this one is used up.

CIYAM
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January 29, 2016, 05:39:22 PM
 #190

Mine is a joke, because that point is so ridiculous.

Then why not actually contribute something of some worth?

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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January 29, 2016, 05:39:46 PM
 #191

...
I mean what the hell are we even talking about ? Are you even familiar with the events of last 2 weeks ? The events of last 10 days should be enough for every good, honest & truthful person to hate Blockstream & Bitcoin Core for eternity !

I got the feeling we are not on the same page here.


Go easy on the meds.  If you are advocating hard fork in this environment, you better sell all bitcoins, because if it happens it will be over for bitcoin.

Other coins will fill the void.

Either way, people who want hard fork now thinking the price will shoot up are not thinking straight.

For me bitcoin was NEVER about the money.  The original principles and vision was what attracted me to bitcoin.  I see efforts to destroy this vision.

If you think core is harming bitcoin, wait for classic (and number of hard forks, altcoins: Bitcoin Unleashed, Bitcoin Hard to Kill, Bitcoin II, Bitcoin Fort Knox, World Wide Bitcoin etc.) and see what happens.   Do you even know what are you advocating?
Not on topic.

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January 29, 2016, 05:40:29 PM
 #192

This is what this topic is about. Stop watering it down:

While I cannot eliminate the possibility that certain Core devs working for Blockstream may indeed share a vision with their employer as to what Bitcoin's future would be
Hahahaha.

That's a nice downplaying manipulation right there.

Actually most of prominent Bitcoin Core devs also work for Blockstream:
Adam Back
Gregory Maxwell
Luke-Jr
Matt Corallo
Pieter Wuille

That's not all - people above are actually the founders of Blockstream & whole lightning concept.

Just a reminder, Adam Back, president of blockstream openly condones censorship:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3hbpg0/adam_back_openly_shows_his_agreeableness_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3hbpg0/adam_back_openly_shows_his_agreeableness_to/

Gregory Maxwell also condones censorship:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/42vqyq/blockstream_core_dev_greg_maxwell_still_doesnt/

And he is a manipulative lying bastard, proof:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/438udm/greg_maxwell_caught_red_handed_playing_dirty_to/

And he openly supports attacking competing projects:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/41c1h6/greg_maxwell_unullc_just_drove_the_final_nail/

...which Adam Back also does. He really likes sabotage, that one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/3hc4nu/adam_back_openly_shows_his_agreeableness_to/

The arguments provided above should be enough for anybody to abolish Bitcoin Core forever. But there is of course much, much, much more from last year.

I will repeat this once more, for posterity:

Saying that "bitcoin is hashcash extended with inflation control" is exactly like saying that "car is just horse carriage extended with combustion engine"

A person who said such thing must have HUGE ego problems.

The source of the quote:
https://twitter.com/adam3us

Mirror in case he changes it:



So what is exactly the percentage of Core Devs that work for Blockstream?

(I guess this should be the key issue here)
Correct.

Proceeding with developer list. Please note the metric used (number of commits) is far from perfect (Not done by me - found on reddit):

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January 29, 2016, 05:43:16 PM
 #193


The arguments provided above should be enough for anybody to abolish Bitcoin Core forever. But there is of course much, much, much more from last year.


Tell me more

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January 29, 2016, 05:43:31 PM
 #194

Frankly that's why I believe the Chinese should not buy into the rhetoric of Bitcoin Classic developers, who clearly have a political agenda(in addition to the absymal record in development of many among them), and supported by people with questionable motives, as Toomim openly acknowledged in the Chinese miners Wechat group.

Nice FUD.

Quote
You might think that choosing Classic over Core is the best option to get a short-term block size expansion, but Classic's plan doesn't stop here, they also intend to decide changes to the code by popular vote: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/master...bitcoinclassic:master , within an environment clearly to the disadvantage of users and businesses in China and many other nations, it's not hard to imagine what most of the outcomes of such votes would be-representing only the opinion of English speaking Bitcoiners, even if we neglect all the technical reasons why it's an amusingly bad idea.

Why would one have to be English speaking to cast a vote? Are Chinese translations so difficult to make? Or is it that (mainland) Chinese are not used to voting?

Quote
While I cannot eliminate the possibility that certain Core devs working for Blockstream may indeed share a vision with their employer as to what Bitcoin's future would be, the consciousness they have thus far displayed, I believe, is in alignment with the general interest of Chinese Bitcoiners, e.g., one of the most important reasons why Core devs oppose to a rash block size increase is the network connectivity problem of people living in China, and Blockstream is, as far as I know, the only company with both the technical expertise and willingness to work on some of the best solutions to the problem: weak blocks and IBLT, and they are working on it. In contrast with this is Classic devs' clear lack of long term sustainable plan to the block size problem, what if 2 MB blocks are filled up again, do we just double it every year, ad infinitum? I am sure you understand that this is unsustainable.

Classic would not be necessary if Core wouldn't let the network get jammed, as it is letting it do now.
 
Quote
Also, if it's possible for such a political fork to take place, it would set a very bad precedent, as any interest group can possibly pay some developers to create a campaign to further split the network, by tweaking with some block parameters, for example, imagine some developers try to appeal to the interest of gamers with high-end GPUs by promising them a change of PoW function, under the banner of "re-decentralizing" the network, in which case the miners' opinion would not even matter to them.

You mean like Core devs like Luke-jr are advocating?!! Talking about very bad precedents...

Quote
After all, it never costs much to pay for an army of shills to flood the online discussion forums to create a superficial "economic majority", like what we are seeing now,

How do you know? From experience perhaps?

Quote
and economically heavy Western Bitcoin exchanges and payment processors certainly have never liked Chinese miners and would, probably never try to stop such a motion if it's indeed put forth.

Excellent FUD. My compliments!

Quote
I am not a Core dev and I could not speak for them, my personal suggestion would be: wait for Segwit to roll out,

...we don't have time to wait that long...

Quote
and if anything goes wrong with it, or the blocks are filling up again, we can push them harder for a block size raise, while wait for weak blocks and IBLT to be implemented, at which time they would have no further excuse, and it would be the moment of truth when we understand if they are truly sincere or not.  Smiley

Yes, give Core yet another chance. Because they have been so sincere until now.  Roll Eyes
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January 29, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
 #195

So you just keep repeating your original post.

That shows that you have no interest in actually debating a single thing but instead want to just insert your opinion.

(you'll notice that I don't do that)

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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January 29, 2016, 05:45:20 PM
 #196

So you just keep repeating your original post.

That shows that you have no interest in actually debating a single thing but instead want to just insert your opinion,
1. Actually I do both.
2. Strayed offtopic again. No new arguments.
3. I did that only because you watered down the topic again using your offtopic tactics.

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January 29, 2016, 05:46:36 PM
 #197

3. I did that only because you watered down the topic again using your offtopic tactics.

Stop with the nonsense please - if you want to properly debate something then let's do it.

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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January 29, 2016, 05:53:40 PM
 #198


The arguments provided above should be enough for anybody to abolish Bitcoin Core forever. But there is of course much, much, much more from last year.


Tell me more
Here you are:

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/3id1al/moderators_of_rbitcoin_changed_the_stylesheets/
2. https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/3h51e0/we_did_it_reddit_a_500_upvoted_post_with_hundreds/
3. https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/3ruq0a/coinbase_ceo_brian_armstrong_proposes_rbtc_for/
4. https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/40qrc6/theymos_is_intentionally_bugging_threads_that_he/
5. https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/3h8vkv/rbitcoin_is_now_banning_people_for_mentioning_xt/
6. https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3woemv/gregory_maxwell_biggest_mistake_is_a_bit_too_much/cxy4fpx?context=3
7. https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3woemv/gregory_maxwell_biggest_mistake_is_a_bit_too_much/cxxvep4?context=3
8. https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3z0pkq/theymos_caught_redhanded_why_he_censors_all_the/

EDIT:
Oh, almost forgot these. These are golden:
9. https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/418r0l/lukejr_is_already_trying_to_sabotage_bitcoin/
10. https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/40qvwd/bitcoin_classic_hard_fork_causes_chaos_on/

All done by small blockists & blockstream employees & blockstream supporters.

If you genuinely want what is good for others, you don't use evil tactics to achieve it.

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January 29, 2016, 05:54:25 PM
 #199

3. I did that only because you watered down the topic again using your offtopic tactics.

Stop with the nonsense please - if you want to properly debate something then let's do it.
You are stalling again.

Start with the arguments. Only then will you gain my respect.

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January 29, 2016, 05:59:20 PM
 #200


Start with the arguments. Only then will you gain my respect.

Fact 1: r/btc is censored

 https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/
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