[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[rezilient]

After reading this comments, I cant really wait for next year 

[jeremy grol]

Question remains:
Eth comes out with completly full decentralized app from beginning and full functionally smart contracts.
Lisk comes out with NO decentralized app. Maybe later......

So,this is enough for me to understand the differences.

[rezilient]

Question remains:
Eth comes out with completly full decentralized app from beginning and full functionally smart contracts.
Lisk comes out with NO decentralized app. Maybe later......

So,this is enough for me to understand the differences.

You don't know anything about it.

[lordoliver]

Question remains:
Eth comes out with completly full decentralized app from beginning and full functionally smart contracts.
Lisk comes out with NO decentralized app. Maybe later......

So,this is enough for me to understand the differences.

Eth didn't release anything for half a year...

[axlroses]

welcome page 600

[lordoliver]

welcome page 600

not yet ;-)

[rezilient]

Question remains:
Eth comes out with completly full decentralized app from beginning and full functionally smart contracts.
Lisk comes out with NO decentralized app. Maybe later......

So,this is enough for me to understand the differences.

Eth didn't release anything for half a year...

Yup. Oh well you can't fully persuade an eth lover.

[lordoliver]

Question remains:
Eth comes out with completly full decentralized app from beginning and full functionally smart contracts.
Lisk comes out with NO decentralized app. Maybe later......

So,this is enough for me to understand the differences.

Eth didn't release anything for half a year...

Yup. Oh well you can't fully persuade an eth lover.

no I can understand it. Eth is for sure a good future as well. But I hate those black and white seeing. Everything has its possibilities...
We will have thousands of companies, that fund over a blockchain. And at the beginning everything will grow probably. Like 1990 any computer/software company grew.
When will people understand that...

[fmz89]

ETH for industrial
LISK for mainstream
 

[bitseedmike]

Nice to see the level of serious discussion pick up again.

[MalReynolds]

I replied to that StackOverflow post: http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/2104/how-does-lisk-differ-from-ethereum/3176#3176

It may not be the most technical answer, but Oliver is busy coding. He doesn't have the time to defend Lisk from people who are just trying to discredit it. As we said at the beginning of Lisk, just wait and see. We can talk all day, but at the end of the day our results will speak for themselves.

To me one of her key points is the FUD about Lisk dapp zip files.  She is saying that because Lisk dapp files are not permanent fixtures on the Lisk mainchain (as ETH dapps are on the ETH mainchain), how do you know you are loading a clean Lisk dapp from a zip file you get from elsewhere?  This is actually a valid point.  So...does the capability exist now in Lisk to put in the main Lisk blockchain during dapp registration an MD5 hash or similar for the offchain Lisk dapp zip file?  Can such a capability be added?  Is should such a capability needed?  (I think yes...)

Max, your response was great, you looked professional and made her look she looked shrill and weak.  Your best line:

Yes, I'm glad that those two guys at Google never started their company because there were so many great search engines back then with hundreds of employees.

[bitseedmike]

For those on the test net, please vote for my delegate, "bitseed". The funds raised when it launches on the main net will be used to further develop it as a full Lisk Dapp node. The Bitseed unit has up to 3 Tb internal storage, 1 Gb RAM, 8 Gb eMMC storage, USB server and client, and HDMI with a dual core ARM processor.

https://bitseed.org/

[mxhwr]

I see what you mean, but, most "simply fun" apps don't really need to be decentralized. Now, building a serious poker engine or gambling engine or bringing on financial applications more generally into javascript? This is a problem I'd like to see addressed - how serious are the limitations of javascript for these sorts of use cases? Maybe there are legitimate ways around the problem?

Ethereum is using solidity for a reason, the fact that everything happens on chain is even more of an incentive to make sure things behave as they are intended to behave. In LISK, I think a possible advantage would be in that everything runs on a side chain - but, this opens up all kinds of questions about how chains interact and how the entire system reaches consensus on what is happening.

LISK might find a space that is worth hundreds of billions with "just fun" apps. So it might not matter. But, many of the serious and interesting use cases being explored and thought about in this space don't seem like a good fit for the architecture of LISK.

Yes, this is a serious problem. In the end LISK might be useful for fun dapps, but serious financial applications are not going to be built on javascript. There is a reason for ETH using "a complicated language", as some have put it here. LISK might still find uses anyway, let's see... but, the idea that it will simple swallow Ethereum up is absurd. People are in for a disappointment if they think that this is what will happen.

also as developers can use nodejs javascript on ethereum why aernt they using it now anyway

got my answer i read your reply

basically ethereum can use javascript for front end but for back end it has to be solidity.

could it be this reason why they dont want to use javascript for the backend

"Javascript numbers are....not the greatest or most reliable. Especially when we are dealing with a crypto-currency, you really want your numbers to be on point. Basically JS uses floating point which means some things get approximated and digits get lost in certain cases. Here's some further reading: Be careful with big numbers & Floating point appoximation. So, the fact that everything in Lisk (including Lisk itself) is in Javascript, it means there are potentially big number problems (both in terms of big numbers and big problems)."

Of course.
How could be innovative in 2016 a javascript coin? Lol, javascript,useful only for html site.

So,the biggest developer spent years studyng C++,Golang, now we are back in 1999 with javascript? lol. Crazy.

what percentage of existing apps are in the "serious financial applications" category of apps and what percentage are in the "fun" category (not sure how you are defining "fun" here)? the opportunity is where the masses play.

side chain is created for the app but not the code. the code itself is not stored on the blockchain. its stored on a zip file which is then linked to the blockchain. dev says they have not implemented in the roadmap yet when they plant to use IPFS but that is there plan. considering the marketing all they seem to say is javascript is more popular than solidity which it is ofcourse but is it a better solution no. they say they have dapps but they dont and will not have it at launch. they raise this much money by saying they have dapps and they never is hugely misleading.

lisk isnt a scam i dont doubt the team but they aern't clear on what they say. it seems they take a small point and blow it up out of porportion.

didn't lisk say they were in partnership with shapeshift.io which got some big hype but they werent they were simply holding or dealing funds not sure il find more info on this. again misleading because when they partnership it means working together but they are not working together

really hope it doesnt up like crypti. they have the funds now so nothing can be done just hope they do actually make dapps and hope this JS actually work

[bitbitch]

It could happen, yes. That is why I was interested in XCR and now LISK. Let's see what happens. I hope you are right and that we go moon. That would be the best for me.

I see what you mean, but, most "simply fun" apps don't really need to be decentralized. Now, building a serious poker engine or gambling engine or bringing on financial applications more generally into javascript? This is a problem I'd like to see addressed - how serious are the limitations of javascript for these sorts of use cases? Maybe there are legitimate ways around the problem?

Ethereum is using solidity for a reason, the fact that everything happens on chain is even more of an incentive to make sure things behave as they are intended to behave. In LISK, I think a possible advantage would be in that everything runs on a side chain - but, this opens up all kinds of questions about how chains interact and how the entire system reaches consensus on what is happening.

LISK might find a space that is worth hundreds of billions with "just fun" apps. So it might not matter. But, many of the serious and interesting use cases being explored and thought about in this space don't seem like a good fit for the architecture of LISK.

Yes, this is a serious problem. In the end LISK might be useful for fun dapps, but serious financial applications are not going to be built on javascript. There is a reason for ETH using "a complicated language", as some have put it here. LISK might still find uses anyway, let's see... but, the idea that it will simple swallow Ethereum up is absurd. People are in for a disappointment if they think that this is what will happen.

also as developers can use nodejs javascript on ethereum why aernt they using it now anyway

got my answer i read your reply

basically ethereum can use javascript for front end but for back end it has to be solidity.

could it be this reason why they dont want to use javascript for the backend

"Javascript numbers are....not the greatest or most reliable. Especially when we are dealing with a crypto-currency, you really want your numbers to be on point. Basically JS uses floating point which means some things get approximated and digits get lost in certain cases. Here's some further reading: Be careful with big numbers & Floating point appoximation. So, the fact that everything in Lisk (including Lisk itself) is in Javascript, it means there are potentially big number problems (both in terms of big numbers and big problems)."

Of course.
How could be innovative in 2016 a javascript coin? Lol, javascript,useful only for html site.

So,the biggest developer spent years studyng C++,Golang, now we are back in 1999 with javascript? lol. Crazy.

what percentage of existing apps are in the "serious financial applications" category of apps and what percentage are in the "fun" category (not sure how you are defining "fun" here)? the opportunity is where the masses play.

they may not need to be decentralised but if the Javascript developer can increase his or her margins by dapping an existing app then they will do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unnu2ov2w2Q

i have concerns about market adoption for Waves. not for Lisk.

[Kevinrasf]

Nice to see the level of serious discussion pick up again.

Sometimes the FUD kicks in and dissapears.

Most of the real discussion is on the Lisk forum anyways

[mxhwr]

Question remains:
Eth comes out with completly full decentralized app from beginning and full functionally smart contracts.
Lisk comes out with NO decentralized app. Maybe later......

So,this is enough for me to understand the differences.

Eth didn't release anything for half a year...

Yup. Oh well you can't fully persuade an eth lover.

no I can understand it. Eth is for sure a good future as well. But I hate those black and white seeing. Everything has its possibilities...
We will have thousands of companies, that fund over a blockchain. And at the beginning everything will grow probably. Like 1990 any computer/software company grew.
When will people understand that...

sure but why mislead to raise funds. doesn't look right plus what lisk is doing can be done another coin does its not totally unique other than its the one that only uses javascript fully. does it deserve a million dollar cap yes because of side chain is good for long run no. like rtccrypto said its good for fun dapps for using to earn large income i think not. does $5.9million ico justify it my opinion not. i won't get into a price war as i am not interested an i'l put it out there i'm not invested in this. i was in ethereum as i like their approach something new and although the code is not popular its not hard to learn.

amazing $5.9million dollars raised just wow

[mxhwr]

It could happen, yes. That is why I was interested in XCR and now LISK. Let's see what happens. I hope you are right and that we go moon. That would be the best for me.

I see what you mean, but, most "simply fun" apps don't really need to be decentralized. Now, building a serious poker engine or gambling engine or bringing on financial applications more generally into javascript? This is a problem I'd like to see addressed - how serious are the limitations of javascript for these sorts of use cases? Maybe there are legitimate ways around the problem?

Ethereum is using solidity for a reason, the fact that everything happens on chain is even more of an incentive to make sure things behave as they are intended to behave. In LISK, I think a possible advantage would be in that everything runs on a side chain - but, this opens up all kinds of questions about how chains interact and how the entire system reaches consensus on what is happening.

LISK might find a space that is worth hundreds of billions with "just fun" apps. So it might not matter. But, many of the serious and interesting use cases being explored and thought about in this space don't seem like a good fit for the architecture of LISK.

Yes, this is a serious problem. In the end LISK might be useful for fun dapps, but serious financial applications are not going to be built on javascript. There is a reason for ETH using "a complicated language", as some have put it here. LISK might still find uses anyway, let's see... but, the idea that it will simple swallow Ethereum up is absurd. People are in for a disappointment if they think that this is what will happen.

also as developers can use nodejs javascript on ethereum why aernt they using it now anyway

got my answer i read your reply

basically ethereum can use javascript for front end but for back end it has to be solidity.

could it be this reason why they dont want to use javascript for the backend

"Javascript numbers are....not the greatest or most reliable. Especially when we are dealing with a crypto-currency, you really want your numbers to be on point. Basically JS uses floating point which means some things get approximated and digits get lost in certain cases. Here's some further reading: Be careful with big numbers & Floating point appoximation. So, the fact that everything in Lisk (including Lisk itself) is in Javascript, it means there are potentially big number problems (both in terms of big numbers and big problems)."

Of course.
How could be innovative in 2016 a javascript coin? Lol, javascript,useful only for html site.

So,the biggest developer spent years studyng C++,Golang, now we are back in 1999 with javascript? lol. Crazy.

what percentage of existing apps are in the "serious financial applications" category of apps and what percentage are in the "fun" category (not sure how you are defining "fun" here)? the opportunity is where the masses play.

they may not need to be decentralised but if the Javascript developer can increase his or her margins by dapping an existing app then they will do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unnu2ov2w2Q

i have concerns about market adoption for Waves. not for Lisk.

waves is different to lisk so wouldn't compare as i do think they have one thing in common misleading

[bitseedmike]

Nice to see the level of serious discussion pick up again.

Sometimes the FUD kicks in and dissapears.

Most of the real discussion is on the Lisk forum anyways

Yes, but BTT should be groomed for marketing. A lot of people, including myself prefer to go to a central place to keep up on different projects instead of to a bunch of different forums.

[bitseedmike]

600 pages!

More information on the Bitseed unit with technical information and the delegate candidacy to fund open source Lisk specific development for it is on the Lisk Forum at https://forum.lisk.io/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=404.

I will vote back for delegates which vote for the bitseed delegate, currently at rank 127 on test net. I am very diligent about returning votes. Also, I will only vote with real Lisk for actual launch delegates which are currently running on the testnet if they vote for bitseed on the testnet for the remainder of the test run.

[LiskHQ]

I replied to that StackOverflow post: http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/2104/how-does-lisk-differ-from-ethereum/3176#3176

It may not be the most technical answer, but Oliver is busy coding. He doesn't have the time to defend Lisk from people who are just trying to discredit it. As we said at the beginning of Lisk, just wait and see. We can talk all day, but at the end of the day our results will speak for themselves.

To me one of her key points is the FUD about Lisk dapp zip files.  She is saying that because Lisk dapp files are not permanent fixtures on the Lisk mainchain (as ETH dapps are on the ETH mainchain), how do you know you are loading a clean Lisk dapp from a zip file you get from elsewhere?  This is actually a valid point.  So...does the capability exist now in Lisk to put in the main Lisk blockchain during dapp registration an MD5 hash or similar for the offchain Lisk dapp zip file?  Can such a capability be added?  Is should such a capability needed?  (I think yes...)

A dapp dev can put a hash in the dapp description field and the users can control the hash before using the dapp. However, this is not feasible or elegant. Long-term I would like to introduce a "version scheme" into the dapp store. That means for every update the dapp developer has to upload a hash to the blockchain and before launching the dapp the Lisk client checks if the hash is correct. It's just a thought right now, but I'm pretty certain that we will implement something like that later on.

It's kind of ironic that as soon as I posted the response on StackOverflow there are immediately a few trolls here.