COIN WARS: And the battle begins...

[tommygunyeah]

.... you will move your coins out of Bitcoin before the Activation, and ito altcoins.[/b]  I've already moved mine into Fedcoin (Ethereum).  I'm currently 70% Ether / 30% Bitcoin.  If Core/Blockstream doesn't quit the BS.... I'll go to 90%/10%.   BUT after the dust settles, you'll see huge inflows back into Bitcoin.

Sorry for the multiple questions... do you foresee the price of ether/ethereum will increase due to the hard fork?

Well..... you can see money moving out now.  Its because people are seeing that Blockstream/Core supporters are making it clear they plan to go to war.   But this war will happen.  

1st Stage of the war is that the Classic Code becomes available.  It will be quickly adapted and will "trigger" the 2nd stage.  It is at this point that I see Bitcoin going up due to the euphoria that at least something is getting done, and hope that bitcoin will soon be rid of Core/Blockstream,a nd development can continue on normal course.

2nd Stage is the "Activation".  That is when the actual Fork occurs.  If it looks like that will get messy, then investment traders will flee like the plague.  Rumours and bad news will spread, and fear and shorts will drive price into the ground.

3rd Stage is Classic Fork emerges victorious after slaughtering Core.  Investment returns, happiness reigns.  The REAL war with Ethereum starts.

I really don't understand where you are coming from here..  I know that Ethereum has been garnering a lot of attention from the altcoin community, as it was recently pumped because of Microsoft speculations; but I really don't see how it is going to "revolutionize" the bitcoin dynamic because it is a mere form of a type of data storage, rather than a coin (I think).  Plus, I just went on poloniex to check the current price of Ethereum out of curiosity after reading your OP, and it's like down 12% or so... so I don't see what you mean by people hedging a lot of their Bitcoins into Eth.

Edit: The more I think about it, this is just a typical FUD post by a huge Eth supporter.  Maybe you should post this in the altcoin section.

It`s certainly a FUD as we have seen many for a while now. This war theory does not make much sense.

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[keepdoing]

2) Core/Blockstream supporters seem deadset on causing as much confusion and destruction as possible.  There have been comments in support of DDOS attacks on Classic Nodes.

Care to back up your defamation with hyperlinks?

Hey GMax!  The loser is back I see.  I thought you were hiding out quivering in fear for your life or something.  More drama from the Blockstream hand wringing drama queens.    Say, Didn't you and I go through this a while back.  I am pretty sure we did, and I provided you the links, and the thread got traction, and then you went whining to loverboy Theymos, and the thread was censored.

I don't have time to play games with a manipulative, whiny, temper tantrum throwing loser like you.  Pretty soon you'll be a pariah no one will touch.  Do you think people will forget how you've behaved?   Oh hey!  I have an idea - get your lawyers to send me a scary letter!   THAT is my sandbox pal!  Courtrooms!  We'll have fun!

Now... run along kiddo.  Go find Theymos and ask him to censor this post too.  THAT's been a big winner approach hasn't it!  ROFL!!  A real big Public Relations Kudo ey??  Censorship?  Made you many friends?

[Amph]

calssic is going no where, miners have already expressed their disappointment with it, so there is no consensus basically for classic, let alone 75%...

core with segwit is the way to go, after that i'm curious about the next update to bring the limit even further beyond...

[keepdoing]

2) Core/Blockstream supporters seem deadset on causing as much confusion and destruction as possible.  There have been comments in support of DDOS attacks on Classic Nodes.

Care to back up your defamation with hyperlinks?

Dear GMAX THE LOSER!

You have accused me in writing of the illegal crime of defamation.  Unless you can prove that I have defamed you, you are guilty of libel, and subject to civil lawsuit.  I hereby demand that you immediately retract your statement accusing me of defamation.

Oh, and GMAX THE LOSER.... here are a couple of solid evidences of my claim that Blockstream/Core supporters have made supportive statemnts regarding launching illegal DDOS attacks against Classic...

You need to add (After classic gets Ddosed back to the stone age people will rejoice[/b]........ )

and....

If DDoSing nodes is te only way to prevent Bitcoin Classic is to do this............wouldn't be something bad.

So sad.  It is clear that Classic is going to prevail, and all that some Blockstream/Core Supporters can resort to is illegal actions.  They are dead set on destroying Bitcoin if they can't control it.  Whiny brats.... like GMAX THE LOSER!

* see ya Gmax!  Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!

[chennan]

LOL, and yet you still haven't provided me with information that I would want to see what the fuck your talking about.  Look, I know that I don't know anything about Ethereum... I've already told you that.  If you could act your age that you're insinuating, then you would be able to redirect me to somewhere for me to learn more.

...and yet he keeps on talking.  Fascinating.  He knows as little about Ethereum, as most average humans know about Bitcoin.  Basically nothing.  Less than nothing actually, since what he does know is mostly wrong. 

Well golly Mr.! You sure did PWN my n00b ass! I'm sorry to have troubled you with my inferior intellect, and obvious disrespect to your 190 IQ super computer of a brain.

Here, let me do you and I both a favor and let me put you on my ignore list thingy-majigga so I won't annoy you with my pointless, idiotic comments and reasonings.

Oh jeeze-la-weeze... There I go running my big mouth again. Thanks for taking the time though to correct me in my idiocracy. I'm sure to not bother you again...

[blackraven1425]

2) Core/Blockstream supporters seem deadset on causing as much confusion and destruction as possible.  There have been comments in support of DDOS attacks on Classic Nodes.

Care to back up your defamation with hyperlinks?

Dear GMAX THE LOSER!

You have accused me in writing of the illegal crime of defamation.  Unless you can prove that I have defamed you, you are guilty of libel, and subject to civil lawsuit.  I hereby demand that you immediately retract your statement accusing me of defamation.

Oh, and GMAX THE LOSER.... here are a couple of solid evidences of my claim that Blockstream/Core supporters have made supportive statemnts regarding launching illegal DDOS attacks against Classic...

You need to add (After classic gets Ddosed back to the stone age people will rejoice[/b]........ )

and....

If DDoSing nodes is te only way to prevent Bitcoin Classic is to do this............wouldn't be something bad.

So sad.  It is clear that Classic is going to prevail, and all that some Blockstream/Core Supporters can resort to is illegal actions.  They are dead set on destroying Bitcoin if they can't control it.  Whiny brats.... like GMAX THE LOSER!

* see ya Gmax!  Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!

How could one think about DDoS'ing something relaying on thousands of segregated nodes? I don't see any point in this discussion.

[keepdoing]

How could one think about DDoS'ing something relaying on thousands of segregated nodes? I don't see any point in this discussion.

I am not suggesting that any DDOS attackers will actually think they can bring down the network compeltley.  But they will be able to sow confusion, and use that as a "marketing tool".  It all part of a potential FUD campaign.... sow fear as in "Load a Classic Node and you'll be attacked".  Happens all the time.  Just because they can't win doesn't stop them from throwing an epic rage attack.  Sort of like Mike Hearn throwing an epic rage quit hissy fit, blockstream/core supporters plan on going out in equally destructive style it appears.

I think the real danger will be in the possibility of a "Code War".  Imagine this scenario.....  At the same time, or shortly after, Classic is released, Core uploads some patches designed to throw a monkey wrench into Classic.  Then, after causing hte problem, they'll launch huge PR campaigns about the dangers of everything going on.  And mass DDOS attacks will take out highly visible infrastructure players.  

IT WON'T MATTER that all of this is temporary.  All that will matter is that it gets public attention, and that fear and doubt spreads.  Remember, all Core/Blockstream supporters have to do is fight off the 75%.  But if that fails - then AFTER the 75% triggers Classic, there will be a month in which everyone is allowed to prepare for Classic, upgrade their node etc.   But what if Core/Blockstream supporters take that time launch bad code, FUD Campaigns etc.

What happens when 2 Chains emerge, and Core/Blockstream supporters decide to fight to the death for their chain?  What if there is competing Bitcoin News Media streaming out different versions of "truth" about what exchanges to use.  An uninformed bitcoin user could easily get locked into the WRONG chain, and see their bitcoins go to zero eventually, or perhaps just die slowly on the eventual Alt-Bcoin chain.

So yes, DDOS will most likely play a role in what I see unfolding.  Won't be the whole role.... but all good wars have multiple battle strategies.  And this is going to be a minor war.  Bigger war will be that taking advantage of all this confusion, Fed Coin will launch.

[keepdoing]

It is worth noting that there will be one clear <but temporary> winner in all of this.  Altcoins.  In the upcoming confusion, money is going to flow out of bitcoin into altcoins. 

Everybody needs to be careful about this.  Careful of followig a stampeding mass of people up and down the currency tradig ladders seeking a quick buck.  Because a lot of people will get burned.

If you plan on exiting and trading.... my advice is don't.  Just pick a couple of the top coins (I've stated my preferance for Ethereum as most likely to emerge as "The Fedcoin" and therefore the most likely candidate for explosive groewth) and park in them.  You can come back into Bitcoin after dust settles, and actually buy in with more coins.   OR if you have a strong stomach, just park your bitcoins outside an exchange and ride out the storm.  If you put your coins in an exchange - make sure you are sure you know what fork they are choosing.  And be damn sure that fork will be the prevailig fork.

But everyone needs to prepare for this fork in order to protect their coins.  Trust me - all the voices saying "No worries" already have made their plans.

Do your own research.

[Kprawn]

The Coin Wars will be won, with the side with the biggest pockets. Our Bitcoin community are up against entities with huge budgets to buy top

developers and inferior ones like Mike Hearn.   They also have enough funding left to pay shills to troll forums like this to create confusion and panic.

Then we have competing Alt coin shills and developers on a power trip... The odds are stacked up against us to succeed. So far, we survived against

these odds.

[topiOleg]

How could one think about DDoS'ing something relaying on thousands of segregated nodes? I don't see any point in this discussion.

This is how Bitcoin XT was taken down. One small poll added possibility for people to direct hashpower if they support Bitcoin XT, and after day or two under DDoS'ing they surrendered and just served Bitcoin Core.
Bitcoin XT nodes were DDoSed as well, with one user reporting local ISP serving hundred people was so overflown with traffic, its custommers could not use internet.

The message was clear: anyone who does not follow Bitcoin Core, will be DDoSed.

If more pools + more people run full nodes at once then chance for this happening is smaller, but nonzero because 1000+ nodes is still vulnerable to be DDoSed.

But then if it happens again, Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin is not option for honest people who support decentralization and free ideas, not violence and criminality.

[BellaBitBit]

Some of this is intimidating and the thing I don't understand and worries me is knowing when this all goes down, will there be warning?  Will there be certain signs?  I am sure there are no definitive answers to this but thanks in advance.

[thejaytiesto]

Classic will collapse just like XT and all the other takeover attempts since the devs don't have any substantial amount of experience and proof to run the development of the full node, therefore things will always tend to go Core's ways because simply they are the highest quality devs in the game.

Once cash is removed by TPTB, the price of Bitcoin will go to the moon and beyond since it will be the only way to circumvent the tyrannical government, fiat-coin based blockchain control. Note that we can only survive in such scenario if nodes remain decentralized (people can run nodes at home and privately).

[keepdoing]

Some of this is intimidating and the thing I don't understand and worries me is knowing when this all goes down, will there be warning?  Will there be certain signs?  I am sure there are no definitive answers to this but thanks in advance.

Yes... plenty of warning.  But you may see price erosion.  Lots of it.  But it WILL come back.  But everyone that has substantial bitcoin needs to star paying attention in coming weeks.

[TPTB_need_war]

Ethereum won't get any where near the adoption and network effects of Bitcoin any time soon. Will take years, e.g. no localbitcoins.com for Ethereum.

Meanwhile yours truly will usurp all of this shit and deliver a coin with > 1 million users before the end of 2016 (or at least the coin will be launched in 2016 and million(s) users will be attained soon thereafter). But I won't be telling you about it here on Bitcointalk.org. You'll have to find it or hear about it (which of course you eventually will if I succeed in my plans, but you will need to digg if you want to get in earlier).


See below for why I think perhaps Blockstream's Segregated Witness appears to be Trojan Horse designed to fork Bitcoin to support Sidechains and allow Blockstream to take control:

Segregated Witness is overviewed here:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/segregated-witness-part-how-a-clever-hack-could-significantly-increase-bitcoin-s-potential-1450553618

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/segregated-witness-part-why-you-should-care-about-a-nitty-gritty-technical-trick-1450827675

Old nodes have no way to know if they are including a fraudulent transaction in their blocks, thus everyone will upgrade to new node else they can be attacked with fraudulent transactions which cause their block rewards to be ignored by the new nodes. Thus Segregated Witness is effectively a hard fork.

Thus this does nothing to solve the Tragedy of the Commons which is driving PoW mining towards (an oligarchy) centralization in order to scale transaction volume. It is a gimick used to increase the block chain by some factor, while sneaking in the ability for Blockstream to add new scripting versions so they can later soft fork (version) the block chain to support Sidechains. Clever but not clever enough to hide from Sherlock Holmes (me)!

Upthread I have rough sketched a design for a solution that conceptually scales and maintains decentralized, permissionless control over mining.

[rokkyroad]

We are going to see a lot of desperate eth bagholder threads now that the price is falling.

[keepdoing]

Ethereum won't get any where near the adoption and network effects of Bitcoin any time soon. Will take years, e.g. no localbitcoins.com for Ethereum.

Meanwhile yours truly will usurp all of this shit and deliver a coin with > 1 million users before the end of 2016 (or at least the coin will be launched in 2016 and million(s) users will be attained soon thereafter). But I won't be telling you about it here on Bitcointalk.org. You'll have to find it or hear about it (which of course you eventually will if I succeed in my plans, but you will need to digg if you want to get in earlier).


See below for why I think perhaps Blockstream's Segregated Witness appears to be Trojan Horse designed to fork Bitcoin to support Sidechains and allow Blockstream to take control.............. blah blah blah

[/quote]
And they call me crazy  

And there is nothing wrong with Segregated Witness - except that idiots at Blockstream/Core are using it as a "Solution" to scaling in order to avoid actual scaling.  It most likely may be implemented at some point.   That's fine.  The primary issue at hand is hardforking to 2mb.  Coming very soon.

Now.... if Core releases Segwit in the middle of the fork, and some people are stupid enough to upgrade to it in the middle of a fork - THEN there could be problems.  Like I have said.... the clear indications are that Core/Blockstream supporters may very well do everything in their power to sabotage what should be a simple technical upgrade.

PS... and you are wrong about Ehereum.  Homestead AND Metropolis platforms are due to roll out this year.  Metropolis will feature very broad enduser rollout, and it will be rolled out by existing finaincial institutions.   So unlike all us fringe lunatics in bitcoin - this will be geared towards the masses.

[TPTB_need_war]

Apparently you don't understand that you are talking to someone who is much more astute than you and more so than most of the guys on this forum.

blah blah blah

You have a reading comprehension handicap. Try again:

while sneaking in the ability for Blockstream to add new scripting versions so they can later soft fork (version) the block chain to support Sidechains

A third advantage of Wuille's Segregated Witness proposal has Bitcoin programmers just as excited as the first two – if not more-so: script versions.

As explained in the previous article, Segregated Witnesses carry scriptSigs that unlock bitcoin. But they carry something else, too: version bytes. These version bytes preface scriptSigs in Segregated Witnesses, indicating what kind of scriptSig it is. If a node reading the version byte recognizes the type, it can tell what requirements must be met to unlock bitcoin in the scriptSig. If a node reading the version byte does not recognize the type, it interprets the scriptSig as an “Anyone can spend.”

This opens up all sorts of new ways to lock bitcoin up in transactions. In fact, it can be used to lock bitcoin up in any way developers come up with. As such, it's impossible to explain how this will be used in the future, since much of this still needs to be invented. But initial ideas include Schnorr signatures, which are much faster to verify than signatures currently in use, and more complicated types of multisig transactions; perhaps even Ethereum-like scripts.

And importantly: Like Segregated Witness itself, these types of upgrades will not break Bitcoin's existing consensus rules. Rather than every single Bitcoin node, only a majority of miners needs to adapt, making them much easier to deploy.

[keepdoing]

We are going to see a lot of desperate eth bagholder threads now that the price is falling.

Hey, you can move your coins into Ripple if you want.  That or Emercoin would be my next favorites.  But they won't be Fedcoin.  They will be big coins for a while though.   Hell, if you are smart - and lucky - you could probably make more money doing in and out trades of other alt coins.   But I don't trade cause it is too risky.  I HODL.  It is and has always been my strategy.  Look out on the playing field.  Pick your winners - Buy and HODL.

Its just common sense that once Fedcoin is identified, that any reasonable person would be intelligent to diversify into a dual Bitcoin/Fedcoin hodling stance.  And I'm just saying.... Ether is Fedcoin.  Arguing about that won't change the facts.

And if you read everything I have ever posted - I have warned and warned that certain actions will lead to Fedcoin.  I am anti-Fedcoin.  Not my fault Bitcoin Core/Blockstream supporters have sabotaged the Bitcoi Ecosystem.  If this had been handled with a simple 2 mb increase back in August - Bitcoin would be over $1000 now and infrastructure and investment soaring.

But it is what it is.  They opened the door wide and paved the path for Ethereum to get a strong toehold.

[rokkyroad]

We are going to see a lot of desperate eth bagholder threads now that the price is falling.

Hey, you can move your coins into Ripple if you want.  That or Emercoin would be my next favorites.  But they won't be Fedcoin.  They will be big coins for a while though.   Hell, if you are smart - and lucky - you could probably make more money doing in and out trades of other alt coins.   But I don't trade cause it is too risky.  I HODL.  It is and has always been my strategy.  Look out on the playing field.  Pick your winners - Buy and HODL.

Its just common sense that once Fedcoin is identified, that any reasonable person would be intelligent to diversify into a dual Bitcoin/Fedcoin hodling stance.  And I'm just saying.... Ether is Fedcoin.  Arguing about that won't change the facts.

And if you read everything I have ever posted - I have warned and warned that certain actions will lead to Fedcoin.  I am anti-Fedcoin.  Not my fault Bitcoin Core/Blockstream supporters have sabotaged the Bitcoi Ecosystem.  If this had been handled with a simple 2 mb increase back in August - Bitcoin would be over $1000 now and infrastructure and investment soaring.

But it is what it is.  They opened the door wide and paved the path for Ethereum to get a strong toehold.

Thanks for the trading advice.  Good luck with your investments.

[keepdoing]

Apparently you don't understand that you are talking to someone who is much smarter than you and smarter than most of the guys on this forum.

Ooops.  Sorry.  My bad.  I apologize for potentially supporting future implementations of Segwit (after it has been properly vetted and introduced by the incoming developer team - i.e. Classic Development Team) and making it appear that I support its implementation under the current seriously conflicted Core/Blockstream Dev Team, which I do not.