[topic topiary] Trolling thread topologically tossed from the terrane

[kano]

The trolling here is out of control.

Dealing with it is boring.

I can edit your posts to make them entertaining to me. This will make dealing with the trolling more fun.

You have all been warned.

Thanks

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[Syke]

I think his point is that the GPL has held up well in some courts (such as in the US and Europe) but some quick Googling shows that this may not be the case in China.

Which is nothing more than a red herring meant to denigrate his competitors. The Avalon team has not violated GPL licenses in the past, and there is no evidence that they are going to start doing so.

[tvbcof]

How is that "flailing against an adversary" exactly?  Either it applies to the Avalon team and there's jack all anyone can/will do about it or it does not apply to the Avalon team so it doesn't matter.  Or are you seriously trying to deny the fact that China has a piss poor record of honoring IP protection laws?  Or... are you just being an apologist for the poor adherence to IP laws?

I actually don't care much about IP one way or another from a 'morality' point of view.  Again, my personal experience with software is that it works significantly better for me as a user when things are open-source, and that's where my money would go.  This is especially true for systems which I want to rely on for critical duties over a long period of time, and ones where I want problems addressed in a hurry (even if I need to do it myself.)  Operating systems are a great example of this.

In terms of the software (or gate design) for ASIC, I don't really see what point you are making, possibly in part because you are not prone to provide context.  Your comment was sort of out-of-the-blue and while you didn't really try to describe what ill effects a use of Avalon gear (assuming they come up with any gear) would face if they play fast-n-loose with IP.

Every effort I've been involved with (including ones with both an American and Chinese wing) has leveraged the hell out of whatever is available to solve their problems.  Most of the time this is open-source, and in the instances when we've tried to integrate closed source solutions it typically results in an expensive and time-sucking disaster.  Nobody tries to cheat, per-se, but there have been a lot of legitimate questions about what it means to comply.  Happily it is becoming more clear as the decades fly by.

Further, as you may (or may not) be aware lots of stuff needs to be done in a hurry in start-up environments.  Cleaning up the loose ends involving use of IP often has a lower priority than other things.

[PuertoLibre]

Kaerf and PuertoLibre, you two are the only ones focusing in on people.  I made mention of Chinese IP laws (or lack thereof, or lack of enforcement, take your pick) and made absolutely no mention of people.

How the two of you go from this:

but it's not like China has a great track record when it comes to IP and copyrights.  If they did release it without the source, realistically, what is the recourse?  Pretty much zip.

to

OMG RACISM!  is truly a mystery, and one best left unplumbed I would wager.  I'm frightened as to what I might find in the minds of people who can't connect two simple dots sitting right next to each other.

China does enforce IP laws.

You are the only one who seemingly lost on this point.

This is like Yifu saying Americans don't respect IP laws because they had <Napster/Scour/Fill in 30 plus others> then quoting a statistic.

Common man, get off that high horse, it's a "general people" problem...not a nation in particular.

Your proposal that the Chinese (or their governments) don't honor IP laws is out of touch with reality. You can play the poll/statistics game to give any side of an argument the advantage. Even up to two people citing completely contradictory points and still call both perfectly valid.

PS -

Last I recall the Chinese Government was working pretty hard to crack down on IP violations and piracy in their hopeful admittance to the WTO (World Trade Organization) and becoming a member of something...which I do not recall what it was anymore.

Why would they be doing this if it's not a huge problem in China?  If it was just as rampant all over the world, how could they be rejected from the WTO on those grounds and why would they need to curb it?  Logic fail.

Slow poke, learn to actually read what positions others take.

I have taken the position that it is a General issue of Humanity. I never took the position that they don't have an IP problem. (So does America, Europe...etc)

I even went as far as pointing out the concept of IP issues being present _Everywhere_. From individuals to Corporations.
(Yes Josh, this includes all regions on Earth; yes even in orbit!). Some space faring astronaughts bring their MP3's in their vast silence of space. (LOL, not kidding on this)

The Onus is on you to prove that the Chinese people are somehow different (?or especially pirate prone?) than the rest of Humanity. If you are willing to go with that argument I think BFL would dump you before we are even 72 hours into 2013. The smart thing to do would be to apologize for any misunderstandings you might have caused.

Have you ever downloaded an [illegal] MP3? Well, does that mean our American Government doesn't [?effectively?] enforce IP laws? Do you know what the actual enforcement rate is for piracy? I mentioned that point early on. Did you notice at the beginning I stated that Americans along with other multi-nationals groups produced the main tools used in Piracy?


Josh you are a hopeless fellow. You don't even know when to call a "Logic Fail".

Don't stop trying though.

[nathanrees19]

China does enforce IP laws.

Just to play the devil's advocate here, can you provide an example of the GPL (since cgminer is GPL licensed, and that seemed to trigger this discussion - MP3s etc. are off topic) being enforced in China? If so, can you then provide data to show that the GPL enforcement rate is similar to that of the US and Europe?

[kaerf]

Here, I'll throw Josh a bone.

4, DEV kit include a XILINX platform cable USB, a USB stick with XILINX ISE 13.2/ altium 10/ synplify 2011.03, modelsim 10, all with crack but use as your own risk, commercial use is  illegal in my country (but legal for personal use in my country )) .

I was wrong to assume the Avalon team had a good track record with protecting (commercial) IP.


Avalon does, I believe, have a good track record of releasing open source code.

[kano]

Anyone want to add in trying to build the original Icarus bitstream to the discussion?
Was that ever resolved? I don't know.

[Syke]

Anyone want to add in trying to build the original Icarus bitstream to the discussion?
Was that ever resolved? I don't know.

Sure, as soon as BFL releases the Single bitstream.

[kano]

Anyone want to add in trying to build the original Icarus bitstream to the discussion?
Was that ever resolved? I don't know.

Sure, as soon as BFL releases the Single bitstream.

Wont happen - it's clearly defined as close source and IP.
They may change their mind?
But unless they do, it won't happen.

[Inaba]

PuertoLibre... you have surpassed your past stupdity by leaps and bounds. I simply can't argue any more with your brand of stupid.  If you want to go on believing, in the face of thousands of documents to the contrary, that China does not have an IP protection problem, you go right on ahead. Everyone else here and literally EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD knows it's a problem. Even China knows it a problem and is trying to fix it (you even linked to it) but in your typical fashion, you deny the facts and just go with your own brand of fantasy.  You are, truly and in every sense of the word, an idiot.

[PuertoLibre]

PuertoLibre... you have surpassed your past stupdity by leaps and bounds. I simply can't argue any more with your brand of stupid.  If you want to go on believing, in the face of thousands of documents to the contrary, that China does not have an IP protection problem, you go right on ahead. Everyone else here and literally EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD knows it's a problem. Even China knows it a problem and is trying to fix it (you even linked to it) but in your typical fashion, you deny the facts and just go with your own brand of fantasy.  You are, truly and in every sense of the word, an idiot.

My position is that it is a problem everywhere. China is no exception nor even exceptional. Again, pick up on the not so subtle hints of what is written, Josh.

FOCUSING in on the Chinese people and remarking that they have a serious IP problem is tantamount to denying the rest of the world (including your own homeland) are somehow in a less serious condition. The first thought that crossed my mind (as apparently it did in other readers) "is this guy serious?"

It was a discriminatory shot aimed at the Avalon Team based on their nationality. Reducing (perhaps a dozen) individuals into a stereotype with intent on exclusivity.

--------------------------
Example,

That is like me saying "those Russians" have a problem with "abandoned children" on the streets. (As if the rest of the world doesn't?)

I'd have to ask myself (if I were intelligent enough) why am I focusing in on one nationality? Is this a problem of perspective or a problem rooted in racial stereotyping? Are they "Human" [same as me] or are they particularly more degenerate in some way? Perhaps they love their children less and therefore abandon them frequently? Look, this statistic says it is so! Those loveless Russians!

It is a slippery slope of stupidity. Make sure you don't go down hill like a simpleton.

[Inaba]

Like I said, you are so deluded that it's impossible to argue with someone who doesn't even understand what he's arguing about.  Enjoy your fantasy land.


PS - You are the only one focusing on Chinese people.  I have been commenting on Chinese law, which is established fact.  The fact that you are bringing race into it makes me believe you are in fact quite racist. 

[Frizz23]

If you want to go on believing, in the face of thousands of documents to the contrary, that China does not have an IP protection problem, you go right on ahead. ...

I fear I have to agree with you on this one  

There is this saying here: "Germans invent something - and then try to make it better. Chinese copy something - and then try to make it cheaper".

Here some pictures of re-engineered copied cars. http://chinesecopiedcars.tumblr.com/

Lifan 320:


BMW Mini Cooper

[meowmeowbrowncow]

In the simplest terms:  never miss a chance to take a shot at a competitor.  


Is this true?  Errr, maybe.  I think of it this way.  Some people expect you to write with bias because of your affiliation.  When you show up in competitor threads to offer negative guidance it's very easy for some to perceive the message as a disingenuous attempt at a balanced opinion.

[PuertoLibre]

Like I said, you are so deluded that it's impossible to argue with someone who doesn't even understand what he's arguing about.  Enjoy your fantasy land.


PS - You are the only one focusing on Chinese people.  I have been commenting on Chinese law, which is established fact.  The fact that you are bringing race into it makes me believe you are in fact quite racist.  

It's more like you are trying to cover up a few bad incidents where you got dumber by every successive post.

You went from racial profiling to calling a customer a "fucking idiot" twice in less than 5 posts. (I am guessing it is five, might be less than that).

When approached by that BFL customer seeking some kind of [verbal] recompense you simply told them off despite that knowledge.

I would say your profile is one of intense anger or simply not giving a damn.

[PuertoLibre]

PS - You are the only one focusing on Chinese people.  I have been commenting on Chinese law, which is established fact.  The fact that you are bringing race into it makes me believe you are in fact quite racist. 

What? Is this one more deluded thought running inside your mind? Go ahead, make it an even dozen.

[Carlton Banks]

PuertoLibre... you have surpassed your past stupdity by leaps and bounds. I simply can't argue any more with your brand of stupid.  If you want to go on believing, in the face of thousands of documents to the contrary, that China does not have an IP protection problem, you go right on ahead. Everyone else here and literally EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD knows it's a problem. Even China knows it a problem and is trying to fix it (you even linked to it) but in your typical fashion, you deny the facts and just go with your own brand of fantasy.  You are, truly and in every sense of the word, an idiot.

I'd just like to add that you should give yourself a round of applause for how well you have honed your appallingly conceited shit-breathed hyperbole act, it is also unsurpassed (although if you push that little bit harder, you could possibly break your own record, keep going!). When it comes to being a prize class turd, you're really pretty spectacular. And, to reiterate, please don't take my praise the wrong way, I am genuinely in awe of how talented you are at being an odious crap muncher.

[Inaba]

PS - You are the only one focusing on Chinese people.  I have been commenting on Chinese law, which is established fact.  The fact that you are bringing race into it makes me believe you are in fact quite racist.  

What? Is this one more deluded thought running inside your mind? Go ahead, make it an even dozen.

Ok, Mr. Brilliant, please show where I was talking about people as opposed to a countries law?  Show me where I mentioned race at all.   Oh you can't? What's that?  You were the one that brought race into the equation?   That's right, you're a fucking idiot, case closed.  Stop being so fucking stupid when you post and you might get some quality discourse... but you are just so stupid that you can't even understand what you write, much less what other people write.  How do you maintain respiration?  Seriously?  Do you even have  job?  I can't imagine anyone hiring you, as you couldn't even mop a floor properly.

When you show up in competitor threads to offer negative guidance it's very easy for some to perceive the message as a disingenuous attempt at a balanced opinion.

What negative guidance?  I stated a fact, or are you disputing established fact now?  How the hell do you get from:

If they did release it without the source, realistically, what is the recourse?  Pretty much zip.

To somehow being negative towards the thread?  If anything, it's negative towards CGMiner ... if Avalon wanted to screw them and release the binaries only, what recourse do they have?  Nothing, which is what I stated and was the sole source of my point.  You mental midgets can't seem to understand the simple written word then try to attribute all sorts of nifty things to me that were not written or even vaguely implied.  Seriously - answer the question.  How do you get from what I wrote to somehow being negative towards Avalon?

[Carlton Banks]

Whoa there, Josh! You're beginning to sound genuinely frustrated with... something. OR.... is this just a double bluff, trying to get people as riled up as you're pretending to be? I like it, very intelligent trolling. Someone give this man a prize, he's working his little alpaca socks off here. In contrast to your trolling insult to PuertoLibre, I'd happily employ you as my weasel faced troll-king all day, every day, you absolutely excel at it! Bring sLOK adn the others into the fray, you could really outdo yourself here

[PuertoLibre]

Not disparaging the Avalon team,
as I have no idea what they are planning



... but it's not like China
has a great track record
when it comes to IP and copyrights. 



If they did release it without the source,
realistically, what is the recourse? 



Pretty much zip.

A poem ---by Inaba @ BFL