280 BTC total bets between Micon and mrb (are BFL ASICs real?)

[Micon]

I assume you are talking about Gmaxwell

It wasn't enough for him to lock the thread. He went beyond and changed the title to justify a blatant scam!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0

I assume you are talking about the "Troll Museum"

yes, the writing was on the wall when they decided to manipulate that thread so it appears there are 100k+ views on their announcements with no negative uproar.  Very, very embarrassing decision by the forum management.

[BTCOnetime]

I'm not as eloquent as most of you here, but I must respond...

I just read through the entire post, and I am thoroughly entertained, as well as disgusted.  Capslock's post says it very well, and maybe I'm missing something here, but how exactly is it "painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam"?  I would really like a direct answer to this.  I have not seen one shred of evidence, much less proof, that BFL's promise of ASIC's is not a scam and/or a failed project, and furthermore, the atrocious and childish behavior of the COO of BFL doesn't exactly help instill confidence in the legitimacy of the company at this point in time.  One can easily defend themself and company without name calling, cussing, etc.  

Question.  Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam.  Did I miss this as well?  It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse.  How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?

Please feel free to correct me on any of this as I'm sure I do not have all the facts.

Jay-Z; nut up, apologize to your customers, and tell them BFL fucked up rather than slinging insults, quarters and exuses at the non-believers... or, produce.  It seems an apology for the painfully long wait is already in order.  If BFL isnt a scam and/or failed project, you owe it to your customers, and their massive amount of lost currency by way of BTC price hikes, lost mining time, etc. to prove that you are legitimate.

B-Mics; I don't have much to scold you for, it seems you have kept a relatively cool head in spite of all the shit that has been thrown your way, but things like joshzerlan.com are unnecessary, and beneath you.  It seems a bit of a cheap shot, with high potential for further escalation.  If Josh and BFL are scamming the community, it will eventually become apparent, and hopefully these people will go to jail, and/or be sued for everything.

ok, phew, just had to get it out, and now, happy betting you jive mothas!

Criticism for JoshZerlan.com accepted & noted.  I can explain a little more why I responded as such:  Nevermind the fact that I think Josh Zerlan works for a scammer company, this guy is a textbook bully.  He's an internet bully and a real-life bully.  He tried to intimidate me personally by making an aggressive show to deflect my CES recordings of his hardware.  I wanted to show him that not only will his bully-deflection tactics not work, but I will use them directly against him to amplify my point and draw more attention to the fact they have not shipped and showed up to CES empty handed.  Maybe this is not warranted, maybe this is childish, but I watch the culture of BFL-influenced mods censoring anti-BFL postings, I watch Josh Zerlan run around these forums talking mad shit to all skeptics in a completely unprofessional and abusive manner, all while holding USD millions in pre-orders and gambling it on R&D to create the product they promised.  Wasn't going to let him push this story to the side once again.  Right or wrong, I choose to fight this bully with a fact-based video account of his own actions and his own words hosted on a domain of his first & last name.

I was speaking more to the picture at the bottom of the site, but other than that, I really have no issue. His response to your response illustrates your point even further.  I don't quite understand how BFL could let the face of their company act like this.  Is it possible to get a response from Josh that is not bullying, insulting, or filled with name calling?

I still don't have an answer to the question, how is it "painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam"?

[kayrice]

Translation:  I am butthurt because the big, bad, mean Josh scared me so I'm going to lash out.  I don't understand why people think I'm an idiot!  It must be a conspiracy!

Somebody call the waaaambulance.

Thanks for basically confirming exactly what Micon just said about your lack character and motives. You just painted your hands red.

[MooC Tals]

From what I hear their about to test 40 chips. So my question is this. What was ready to ship in November to Dec?

[Inaba]

See, the problem is you can't have a rational discussion with inherently irrational people.  Bryan Micon has shown himself to be irrational, illogical and just a plain liar and scammer.  He's done it in his past, he's doing it now.  There is no point in trying to hold an adult conversation with a child like Bryan Micon.  Just watch his video and you can see how his brain does not quite function properly. He babbles on about e-cigarettes, spews anti-semetic jokes and what you don't see on the video is his crazed reactions to the people around him.  

The bottom line is, I've tried to point out the flaws in his arguments, but he is so blinded by his hurt feelings that he's unable to understand that most people view him as a dolt and that no one but seemingly equally deluded people take him seriously.  If you choose not to believe my words, use your brain and look at his arguments:

He first claimed that BFL took in 25 million in pre-orders.  This was a number he was sure of.  Now he's claiming 10 million.  In either case, he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, yet he makes these claims like he does.

He claims that BFL is a scam and will run off with everyones money.  There is no evidence to back this up and there is, in fact, mountains of evidence to the contrary.  He has made this claim repeatedly, but now, with more and more evidence piling up against Bryan he starts to waffle and then says "Oh well, they won't ship before X date."  When pressed on the issue, he refuses any bet that supports his statements and instead puts hedging and caveats in any bet so that he has a chance of winning if BFL is delayed.  If he actually believed BFL was a scam, as he claims, then there would be no need to put caveats and hedging in his bets.  This in and of itself should be a giant red flag that Bryan is unbalanced and unable to grasp reality.

His claims that I am an internet bully are laughable.  What the hell is an internet bully?  How exactly do I bully someone over the internet?  This is a deranged individuals reaction to someone pointing out what an idiot he is.  As for a bully in real life,  I wasn't aware I assaulted Bryan and if I did, why did he not call the police?  Another lie perpetrated by Bryan.

He claims there is some sort of conspiracy not only on Bitcointalk, but on Reddit (and elsewhere?) against him.  This is the very definition of an unbalanced individual... the claim that there is somehow a cabal of individuals all over the world out to get some insignificant, irrelevant little internet troll that nobody cares about.  It is laughable that the Bitcointalk staff would do anything for me or for BFL that's "special" because we are BFL.  We don't pay them, we don't have a deal with them, we don't have any special arrangements of any sort and any time I have approached Theymos et al with regards to some unusual actions, I've been turned down quite handily.  The claim that we somehow manipulate Reddit is even more ludicrous.  Yes indeed, the conspiracy against Bryan Micon surely runs deep!  Not...

So no, there is no point in trying to rationally discuss anything with Bryan.  He's incapable of it at this point - he is sad and scared that I told him in front of a bunch of people that he's basically an idiot.  He's angry over it and he's lashing out like a little child, so blinded by his embarrassment and rage that he can't understand why no one takes him seriously and why I laugh at him when he throws his little internet tantrum.  After seeing the homophobic, neo-nazi, white trash personality that Bryan Micon has exhibited on numerous occasions, it's impossible to take him seriously.

[BTCOnetime]

I assume you are talking about Gmaxwell

It wasn't enough for him to lock the thread. He went beyond and changed the title to justify a blatant scam!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0

I assume you are talking about the "Troll Museum"

yes, the writing was on the wall when they decided to manipulate that thread so it appears there are 100k+ views on their announcements with no negative uproar.  Very, very embarrassing decision by the forum management.

What's with the censorship?  I was also just censored (completely deleted) for typing in MNW's new thread "didn't this guy scam half the people here? How is he still allowed to post?"  Are MNW and Zerlin paying someone to make them look better?

Apologies for getting off topic

Translation:  I am butthurt because the big, bad, mean Josh scared me so I'm going to lash out.  I don't understand why people think I'm an idiot!  It must be a conspiracy!

Somebody call the waaaambulance.

Thanks for basically confirming exactly what Micon just said about your lack character and motives. You just painted your hands red.

^

[BTCOnetime]

Instead of lashing out at Bryan for lashing out at you, and back and forth, or however this whole thing is going, prove him wrong by producing evidence to the contrary of his scammer accusation.  I still see none of this.

[Micon]

See, the problem is you can't have a rational discussion with inherently irrational people.  Bryan Micon has shown himself to be irrational, illogical and just a plain liar and scammer.  He's done it in his past, he's doing it now.  There is no point in trying to hold an adult conversation with a child like Bryan Micon.  Just watch his video and you can see how his brain does not quite function properly. He babbles on about e-cigarettes, spews anti-semetic jokes and what you don't see on the video is his crazed reactions to the people around him.  

The bottom line is, I've tried to point out the flaws in his arguments, but he is so blinded by his hurt feelings that he's unable to understand that most people view him as a dolt and that no one but seemingly equally deluded people take him seriously.  If you choose not to believe my words, use your brain and look at his arguments:

He first claimed that BFL took in 25 million in pre-orders.  This was a number he was sure of.  Now he's claiming 10 million.  In either case, he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, yet he makes these claims like he does.

He claims that BFL is a scam and will run off with everyones money.  There is no evidence to back this up and there is, in fact, mountains of evidence to the contrary.  He has made this claim repeatedly, but now, with more and more evidence piling up against Bryan he starts to waffle and then says "Oh well, they won't ship before X date."  When pressed on the issue, he refuses any bet that supports his statements and instead puts hedging and caveats in any bet so that he has a chance of winning if BFL is delayed.  If he actually believed BFL was a scam, as he claims, then there would be no need to put caveats and hedging in his bets.  This in and of itself should be a giant red flag that Bryan is unbalanced and unable to grasp reality.

His claims that I am an internet bully are laughable.  What the hell is an internet bully?  How exactly do I bully someone over the internet?  This is a deranged individuals reaction to someone pointing out what an idiot he is.  As for a bully in real life,  I wasn't aware I assaulted Bryan and if I did, why did he not call the police?  Another lie perpetrated by Bryan.

He claims there is some sort of conspiracy not only on Bitcointalk, but on Reddit (and elsewhere?) against him.  This is the very definition of an unbalanced individual... the claim that there is somehow a cabal of individuals all over the world out to get some insignificant, irrelevant little internet troll that nobody cares about.  It is laughable that the Bitcointalk staff would do anything for me or for BFL that's "special" because we are BFL.  We don't pay them, we don't have a deal with them, we don't have any special arrangements of any sort and any time I have approached Theymos et al with regards to some unusual actions, I've been turned down quite handily.  The claim that we somehow manipulate Reddit is even more ludicrous.  Yes indeed, the conspiracy against Bryan Micon surely runs deep!  Not...

So no, there is no point in trying to rationally discuss anything with Bryan.  He's incapable of it at this point - he is sad and scared that I told him in front of a bunch of people that he's basically an idiot.  He's angry over it and he's lashing out like a little child, so blinded by his embarrassment and rage that he can't understand why no one takes him seriously and why I laugh at him when he throws his little internet tantrum.  After seeing the homophobic, neo-nazi, white trash personality that Bryan Micon has exhibited on numerous occasions, it's impossible to take him seriously.

I mean you are like a cartoon character, but the show is about deflection and wreaks of denial and frankly sounds like you are on some sort of drugs, and I'm not talking about weed.  I would not go flying with you, that is for sure.

Just to curve back some of your bent truths in this latest diatribe in one of my betting threads vs. your company MISSING SHIPPING DATES because THAT'S SOMETHING WITH AN END DATE TO SETTLE A BET, so we don't bet on an open-ended vague statement like "BFL is a giant scam and employees a buffoon named Josh Zerlan" which very well may be true but has no formal end, thus no one would know when to settle.  Think about this - what if ASIC mining becomes the norm, in 3 years there are 10 suppliers, BFL eventually buys one of them and sends the pre-orders.    I suppose from now until then it's up to the individual to determine when BFL is a scam.

notice the levels of deflection here:  Zerlan is trying to focus the argument on such minutiae as the fact that I typed $25M or $10M in preorders.  What if it were only $1M in pre-orders? what does this have to do with anything?  it is one of the phrases that Josh Zerlan types over and over as if he is making it true.  He uses the phrases "anyone with a brain" and "his claims are laughable" when clearly there are users in this thread and many others that feel similar.  He keeps repeating the same things, but no facts to back them up and incoherent off-topic responses when the discussion gets focused.

BFL's last "bumping facility" update was over a week ago.  No pictures.  Your company is holding millions of btc community money.  tell me more about how I'm unbalanced or a neo-nazi.  You are digging a gigantic hole, everyone can read it plainly.

[Micon]

From what I hear their about to test 40 chips. So my question is this. What was ready to ship in November to Dec?

Josh will NOT be answering that question.  His next response will likely center on me and not pertain to BFL or the millions they are holding in pre-order monies or if they spent pre-order monies on R&D because they have no product yet. 

these types of things will NOT be discussed by Josh.

now ship pre-order.

[Inaba]

Instead of lashing out at Bryan for lashing out at you, and back and forth, or however this whole thing is going, prove him wrong by producing evidence to the contrary of his scammer accusation.  I still see none of this.

I'm sorry, then you are blind.  There are mountains of evidence everywhere, and as I said, anyone with even a glimmer of intelligence has seen it.  I'm not lashing out at Bryan, I am poking fun at him because he's so ridiculous.  Watching him flail about trying to dodge the simple truth that his entire premise is false, has been demonstrated to be false and is beyond ludicrous is an entertaining past time.  You are obviously new here, so it's forgivable that you are unaware that I don't tolerate stupidity and I will be happy to point it out to you directly.  In this case, I am enjoy pointing out how completely idiotic Bryan is, and that's about it.  As I said, it's pointless to argue with someone who is not able to grasp reality or understand any of the evidence that is presented to him.

notice the levels of deflection here:  Zerlan is trying to focus the argument on such minutiae as the fact that I typed $25M or $10M in preorders.

This is not minutiae Bryan, this is demonstrating the fact that you can't even get your numbers straight.  You don't know what you are talking about, so you just throw out random numbers, and you make them sensational so that people will react.  It's anything but minutiae.  You think you are this clever promoter, but there's a reason your entire life is a failure.  Donkdown podcast?  Failure.  Poker carreer?  Failure.  Family?  Failure (I'm going to divorce my wife and move to Las Vegas!  Good work on that, man.), Hygiene?  Failure.  Skewer Inaba?  Failure.  (I mean, you do realize that the more you protest about how I called you an idiot in real life, in front of real people, the more people come to check out BFL, right?  You're almost as good as CreativeX when it comes to driving traffic and interest.)

Just to curve back some of your bent truths in this latest diatribe in one of my betting threads vs. your company MISSING SHIPPING DATES because THAT'S SOMETHING WITH AN END DATE TO SETTLE A BET, so we don't bet on an open-ended vague statement like "BFL is a giant scam and employees a buffoon named Josh Zerlan" which very well may be true but has no formal end, thus no one would know when to settle.  Think about this - what if ASIC mining becomes the norm, in 3 years there are 10 suppliers, BFL eventually buys one of them and sends the pre-orders.    I suppose from now until then it's up to the individual to determine when BFL is a scam.

Awww, poor little Bryan, caught in a corner again and goes off raging about how there's NO END DATE! !!!  OH NOES!  I won't bet because there's no end date... sadly, I gave him an end date, offered to bet him 2000 BTC, or even 100 BTC which he declined.  He wants an "end date" of a couple weeks on the statement that "BFL IS A SCAM!"

See the problem here is, Bryan makes a claim (BFL is a scam, according to him), but then refuses to back it up.  That's the bottom line.  I am offering him $60,000 at current BTC rates IN ESCROW that if BFL does not ship an ASIC this year.  Hell, I'd probably even offer him that bet for March if he'd take me up on it, but we both know he won't put up more than a few token BTC.  He does these little tiny bets because it's worth the attention he gets, but he's unwilling to risk any substantial amount of money on his claim that he is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE is true.  This is why you know what he says is a lie and he's just a pathetic little internet attention whore.  

And before you go on saying how "Maybe 100 BTC" is a lot for little Bryan, keep in mind this is a man who claims to be a professional poker player who plays in the WSOP, so a $60,000 wager (or even a $3000 wager, which was offered as well) is not out of the realm of reason for a professional WSOP poker player.  Although, given the fact that his poker career is as much of a joke as the reset of him, I suppose it's not surprising.  

[BTCOnetime]

Instead of lashing out at Bryan for lashing out at you, and back and forth, or however this whole thing is going, prove him wrong by producing evidence to the contrary of his scammer accusation.  I still see none of this.

I'm sorry, then you are blind.  There are mountains of evidence everywhere, and as I said, anyone with even a glimmer of intelligence has seen it.  I'm not lashing out at Bryan, I am poking fun at him because he's so ridiculous.  Watching him flail about trying to dodge the simple truth that his entire premise is false, has been demonstrated to be false and is beyond ludicrous is an entertaining past time.  You are obviously new here, so it's forgivable that you are unaware that I don't tolerate stupidity and I will be happy to point it out to you directly.  In this case, I am enjoy pointing out how completely idiotic Bryan is, and that's about it.  As I said, it's pointless to argue with someone who is not able to grasp reality or understand any of the evidence that is presented to him.


I'm sorry, but I am not blind, and it seems your implying that large portion of the BTC community, is.  If it's so clear, make me believe, make us believe. Status updates, time frames, and pictures of boxes don't really do it for me.  If the evidence is everywhere, point me, us, in several of the right directions please. -BTCOnetime

not sure why my response ^ is listed as yours, I tried several times to separate it, but there is my response - BTCOnetime

[mrb]

I watch the culture of BFL-influenced mods censoring anti-BFL postings

I was very surprised to experience this myself. One of the mods is really a disgrace for this forum!

becoin, can you send me the escrow code that casascius generated for you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914.msg1488827#msg1488827 so that I can reclaim my 0.1 BTC bet that you failed to match?

[Micon]

Instead of lashing out at Bryan for lashing out at you, and back and forth, or however this whole thing is going, prove him wrong by producing evidence to the contrary of his scammer accusation.  I still see none of this.

I'm sorry, then you are blind.  There are mountains of evidence everywhere, and as I said, anyone with even a glimmer of intelligence has seen it.  I'm not lashing out at Bryan, I am poking fun at him because he's so ridiculous.  Watching him flail about trying to dodge the simple truth that his entire premise is false, has been demonstrated to be false and is beyond ludicrous is an entertaining past time.  You are obviously new here, so it's forgivable that you are unaware that I don't tolerate stupidity and I will be happy to point it out to you directly.  In this case, I am enjoy pointing out how completely idiotic Bryan is, and that's about it.  As I said, it's pointless to argue with someone who is not able to grasp reality or understand any of the evidence that is presented to him.

notice the levels of deflection here:  Zerlan is trying to focus the argument on such minutiae as the fact that I typed $25M or $10M in preorders.

This is not minutiae Bryan, this is demonstrating the fact that you can't even get your numbers straight.  You don't know what you are talking about, so you just throw out random numbers, and you make them sensational so that people will react.  It's anything but minutiae.  You think you are this clever promoter, but there's a reason your entire life is a failure.  Donkdown podcast?  Failure.  Poker carreer?  Failure.  Family?  Failure (I'm going to divorce my wife and move to Las Vegas!  Good work on that, man.), Hygiene?  Failure.  Skewer Inaba?  Failure.  (I mean, you do realize that the more you protest about how I called you an idiot in real life, in front of real people, the more people come to check out BFL, right?  You're almost as good as CreativeX when it comes to driving traffic and interest.)

Just to curve back some of your bent truths in this latest diatribe in one of my betting threads vs. your company MISSING SHIPPING DATES because THAT'S SOMETHING WITH AN END DATE TO SETTLE A BET, so we don't bet on an open-ended vague statement like "BFL is a giant scam and employees a buffoon named Josh Zerlan" which very well may be true but has no formal end, thus no one would know when to settle.  Think about this - what if ASIC mining becomes the norm, in 3 years there are 10 suppliers, BFL eventually buys one of them and sends the pre-orders.    I suppose from now until then it's up to the individual to determine when BFL is a scam.

Awww, poor little Bryan, caught in a corner again and goes off raging about how there's NO END DATE! !!!  OH NOES!  I won't bet because there's no end date... sadly, I gave him an end date, offered to bet him 2000 BTC, or even 100 BTC which he declined.  He wants an "end date" of a couple weeks on the statement that "BFL IS A SCAM!"

See the problem here is, Bryan makes a claim (BFL is a scam, according to him), but then refuses to back it up.  That's the bottom line.  I am offering him $60,000 at current BTC rates IN ESCROW that if BFL does not ship an ASIC this year.  Hell, I'd probably even offer him that bet for March if he'd take me up on it, but we both know he won't put up more than a few token BTC.  He does these little tiny bets because it's worth the attention he gets, but he's unwilling to risk any substantial amount of money on his claim that he is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE is true.  This is why you know what he says is a lie and he's just a pathetic little internet attention whore.  

And before you go on saying how "Maybe 100 BTC" is a lot for little Bryan, keep in mind this is a man who claims to be a professional poker player who plays in the WSOP, so a $60,000 wager (or even a $3000 wager, which was offered as well) is not out of the realm of reason for a professional WSOP poker player.  Although, given the fact that his poker career is as much of a joke as the reset of him, I suppose it's not surprising.  

this giant wall of text and no mention of bumping facility or the millions you are holding.  only more deflection.

also remember, there is still a 20 coin bet on the table for you to meet your own timeline that you are not taking.   Josh Zerlan the talker, not the bettor.  I decline your poor-termed 2000 coin wager.  You decline my 20 coin wager based on your words.

Everyone can see you getting destroyed in this thread Josh, pack it up, go write some more fiction on the BFL forums.

[Inaba]

Haha destroyed in this thread.  Yes indeed... destroyed by you waffling on your own statements time and again! 

This is the delusion you have created for yourself.  You think you are "winning" by driving traffic to BFL, back peddling time and again on everything you say, and turning down "sure money" based on your own statements.  Yep, I sure am losing! 

[Rick James]

Haha destroyed in this thread.  Yes indeed... destroyed by you waffling on your own statements time and again! 

This is the delusion you have created for yourself.  You think you are "winning" by driving traffic to BFL, back peddling time and again on everything you say, and turning down "sure money" based on your own statements.  Yep, I sure am losing! 

Been wanting to say this for a long while as an unbiased bystander/possible customer......

You're a fucking twat.



Glad I went with Avalon.



Just deliver and not a box of fans.

[Inaba]

Glad I went with Avalon.

Wow, what a coincidence, so am I!

[Rick James]

Glad I went with Avalon.

Wow, what a coincidence, so am I!

Good comeback!

Now about that box of fans. . .. ..... ... ..

 

[Micon]

Glad I went with Avalon.

Wow, what a coincidence, so am I!

This, my friends, is your COO of BFL, Josh Zerlan. 

Customer relations was never his strong suit.  The traditional corporate environment never worked for him.  Nevermind the bumping facility or the millions is pre-orders:  this man has an airplane.

[Micon]

Haha destroyed in this thread.  Yes indeed... destroyed by you waffling on your own statements time and again! 

This is the delusion you have created for yourself.  You think you are "winning" by driving traffic to BFL, back peddling time and again on everything you say, and turning down "sure money" based on your own statements.  Yep, I sure am losing! 

[Inaba]

Awww did I hurt your widdle feewings again?  

Lets break your statement down for a second here, according to you, either one of two things is happening here:

A) I am a master manipulator and I use my wily skills to pacify all the BFL customers and "bully" them (and you) into doing what I want.  
or
B) I have no idea what I'm doing and somehow, against all odds, I've managed to get you, the famous Bryan Micon to "investigate" me and my company with your amazing deductive skills, thereby lending credibility and attention to BFL.

In case A) you are aware that I am manipulating you and yet you are still allowing yourself to be manipulated.  That makes you my little tool. (Hah, you catch the cock reference? Comedy gold here, folks).
Or in case B) I'm a complete idiot (according to you) and you are somehow unable to expose my lies and scams in any way, shape or form.  That makes you a tool.

You are allowing yourself to be willingly manipulated or you are unable to best a complete idiot with your massive intellect.  Good show, old chap!

Yes Bryan, you are truly a master of logical deduction, upstanding citizenry and intelligence.