Community Miner Design Discussion

[philipma1957]

arg, i personallly am getting discouraged in bitfury, not that it surprises me ;\
they seem to have the time for the big money and deal with bcn, but not sidehack
i really hope they honor their word but i fear no chips till april or later ;(
cmon bitfury, don't let us down, choose community for once!

I have faith in Bitfury they will provide us with a solid amount  of chips at a decent price and earlier

then  expected.


How is that for a BOLD  remark?

[1713539349]

1713539349

[hedgy73]

arg, i personallly am getting discouraged in bitfury, not that it surprises me ;\
they seem to have the time for the big money and deal with bcn, but not sidehack
i really hope they honor their word but i fear no chips till april or later ;(
cmon bitfury, don't let us down, choose community for once!

I have faith in Bitfury they will provide us with a solid amount  of chips at a decent price and earlier

then  expected.


How is that for a BOLD  remark?

I hope you're right

[sidehack]

Right now I'm trusting kilo17. If he trusts Bitfury, or whoever is the gobetween he's using to get chips, then I reckon we'll have chips. Anyways he's moving forward with his own money so I can design around 'em, so he better be right.

[Makingsure]

arg, i personallly am getting discouraged in bitfury, not that it surprises me ;\
they seem to have the time for the big money and deal with bcn, but not sidehack
i really hope they honor their word but i fear no chips till april or later ;(
cmon bitfury, don't let us down, choose community for once!

I have faith in Bitfury they will provide us with a solid amount  of chips at a decent price and earlier

then  expected.


How is that for a BOLD  remark?

well it means alot coming from you i know from seeing you around here you have been involved in darn near every reputable company for ascii's as a purchaser, so that makes me feel better, yay!
it's just FELT like bitfury only sells us stuff when they need money last year or 2 and rest of time they private miners ;\
i mean my one big point on that is that bit-x cloud mining is "unprofitable" for months now? thought they were bitfury backed.. you know what im saying? (not wanting to cut in community)
time will tell, but i believe if you do, and have my btc waiting

[philipma1957]

arg, i personallly am getting discouraged in bitfury, not that it surprises me ;\
they seem to have the time for the big money and deal with bcn, but not sidehack
i really hope they honor their word but i fear no chips till april or later ;(
cmon bitfury, don't let us down, choose community for once!

I have faith in Bitfury they will provide us with a solid amount  of chips at a decent price and earlier

then  expected.


How is that for a BOLD  remark?

well it means alot coming from you i know from seeing you around here you have been involved in darn near every reputable company for ascii's as a purchaser, so that makes me feel better, yay!
it's just FELT like bitfury only sells us stuff when they need money last year or 2 and rest of time they private miners ;\
i mean my one big point on that is that bit-x cloud mining is "unprofitable" for months now? thought they were bitfury backed.. you know what im saying? (not wanting to cut in community)
time will tell, but i believe if you do, and have my btc waiting

I really am hoping hard on this.  The solar array will be ready in 10 days or so. I think we are going to run it at 6-7kwatts and wait for some bitfury gear(9-10kwatts) rather then load it up with avalon 6s and s-7's.

At least this is current plan for today.

[PlanetCrypto]

So, after skimming the thread a little... i only have one question to y'all:

Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?

I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?

PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?

For a start. perhaps someone here can do an ASIC die layout. If so,   Then the real expensive part comes: I don't know first-hand about TSMC but - we work with the #1 chip packaging company in Taiwan - folks that mount the silicon die into the final chip package  - and they will not even talk to a customer without a 100k$ minimum to even try the design & mfg of it. If going for 16/14nm node I'd bet TSMC and any other foundry is going to ask for no less to produce the dies. Also based solely and explicitly on what you tell then to do they will do it, even if the design itself is wrong or not properly spec'd to the last detail. If you want design suggestions from them regarding your design specs and expectations - that costs extra and you MUST ask for their input.

Getting back late to the discussion, so apologies if I state what has already been said.
I'll take the debit for the community ASIC discussion death.
I got sick and basically fell off the planet several months ago. Sucks to get old, BTW. Don't do it, if possible.

At a minimum, the cost to bring an ASIC to tape out is $1.5m
NotFuzzyWarm is spot on in his post.
From a business standpoint, for an entity to layout $1.5-$2.0 mil requires some surety of sales/profit.
If for no reason other than being able to continue operations (i.e. net revenue = $0).
On paper / in posts, it seems that BF has "stepped up to the plate" regarding chip availability.
Time will tell if/when chips actually make it into the community's hands.
And while I'm hopeful, I'm not "holding my breath" waiting for it to happen.

IMHO the kilo17/GS alliance is the communities best bet for affordable miners to empower the continued de-centralization of BTC.
For what little it's worth, we support this endeavor and look forward to it's success.

Also from a business standpoint, kilo17's financial participation is a gutsy move in an unsure industry.

[carlosmnk]

I did not realize that sidehack did not get the chip info yet.
They will for sure provide a sample as soon they get more chips , at least to have more options for distribution later

It is for sure that bitfury HAVE theese chips? or they are winning time?? 

[philipma1957]

I did not realize that sidehack did not get the chip info yet.
They will for sure provide a sample as soon they get more chips , at least to have more options for distribution later

It is for sure that bitfury HAVE theese chips? or they are winning time?? 

I do not understand you.  They ran the chips on youtube videos . So the chips exist .

Now a while back Friedcat ran some really good chips but they never got to the public.

So are you asking is it sure bitfury chips will come to the public?

Simple answer maybe. 

Exact chance that the public gets chips  my guess is better then 80-85%.

[sidehack]

Good ol' BE300, December 2014. Those were the chips that made me and Novak decide we should design our own miner. Too bad ASICMiner imploded right around then, because their chips tested out better numbers than pretty much anything until the BM1385 was released. Would have trashed the S5 and SP20.

[carlosmnk]

I did not realize that sidehack did not get the chip info yet.
They will for sure provide a sample as soon they get more chips , at least to have more options for distribution later

It is for sure that bitfury HAVE theese chips? or they are winning time?? 

I do not understand you.  They ran the chips on youtube videos . So the chips exist .

Now a while back Friedcat ran some really good chips but they never got to the public.

So are you asking is it sure bitfury chips will come to the public?

Simple answer maybe. 

Exact chance that the public gets chips  my guess is better then 80-85%.

Yes, that i mean. With their demo video, they stopped the market sales; everybody is waiting for them. I don't think Bitmain is very happy with this videos, but Avalon is worse. The Spoondolies' guys are out of market with this anouncement. With theese chips, only Bitfury will control the entire markey (with permision of bw.com)...

[philipma1957]

I did not realize that sidehack did not get the chip info yet.
They will for sure provide a sample as soon they get more chips , at least to have more options for distribution later

It is for sure that bitfury HAVE theese chips? or they are winning time?? 

I do not understand you.  They ran the chips on youtube videos . So the chips exist .

Now a while back Friedcat ran some really good chips but they never got to the public.

So are you asking is it sure bitfury chips will come to the public?

Simple answer maybe. 

Exact chance that the public gets chips  my guess is better then 80-85%.

Yes, that i mean. With their demo video, they stopped the market sales; everybody is waiting for them. I don't think Bitmain is very happy with this videos, but Avalon is worse. The Spoondolies' guys are out of market with this anouncement. With theese chips, only Bitfury will control the entire markey (with permision of bw.com)...

Basically we are too far down on the Asic food chain to get really solid info.

  A guy like me yeah I am honest   I have a bit  of a following, but money talks and I don't spend  100,000 usd   3 or 4 times a year on gear.
I may buy 30,000 usd worth of gear  in a year.  Which gets me a following since I sell it to the community at little or no markup. No one gets cheated by me. I have no preorder delays.  But I would still be called a lightweight to a company like bitfury. If I consistently bought and sold a few hundred thousand I would be more in the loop.


So I am always a little out of the loop and never quite have perfect info.

[PlanetCrypto]

sidehack

I have a design requset:
Allow the hash board input voltage to be from 10.5Vdc to 15.5 Vdc.

Here's the reason:
An input V range of 10.5V-15.5V would allow the boards to be driven by a battery bank which is in turn charged by solar.
And eliminates the need for a high current sepic converter

Here's a sample scenario that would scale:
3x 60 cell panels (250W-300W) in series (nominal 105Vdc input) feed to a Morningstar MPPT-60 (other brands exhibit similar tolerances) that charges the battery bank.
In this scenario, one can expect or should design for, a battery bank voltage to swing from 10.5V (completely discharged) to 15.5V (fully charged in winter and/or battery equalization charge levels).

Driving a miner directly from a DC source (12V battery bank) has at least one advantage, it escapes the losses in converting DC to AC (i.e. inverter inefficiencies).
Inverter efficiencies can be as low as 82% (sometimes worse with cheap China originated inverters).


Another request, regardless of input source, is that the hash boards implement a low voltage cutoff @ 10.5V.
This would prevent an over current condition when the bucks are feed a low supply voltage.
Which would assist in saving the hash board when a PSU screws up or is overloaded.

Maybe a simple fuse inbetween the PCI power input and the buck(s) supply rail???

Thanks in advance for the consideration.

Pup Tentacle

[sidehack]

The buck chip I'm looking at, and the main FETs, are all rated for much higher than 15.5VDC. I'd just have to make sure the input caps and any accessory LDOs and such are rated for it too. Shouldn't be a problem. The main buck chip also has a UVLO input I can set to any voltage I want. So that's probably all doable, and fits in line with capabilities Novak and I were wanting in there anyways. I was gonna guarantee at least 14.4V operation, so 15.5V isn't too much farther. Fused input is a decent idea also, but I'd probably put a fuse such that the maximum expected buck output at the minimum expected input voltage doesn't blow it. Could prevent a fire or other damage in case something goes wrong, and I think a lot of miner hardware could benefit from that sort of protection.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I agree fusing is a good idea. Definitely go for automotive blade style vs the cartridge fuses. They have currents up to 120A. Far more reliable and smaller as well. Wikipedia has surprising good ref on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_%28automotive%29

[sidehack]

And hopefully a socket that's actually rated for that kind of current, and blades on the fuse that are rated for it also, not like the AM Cube. The AM Blade had socketed fuses on some of 'em, which was handy since fuses blew on those more often than there was good hardware-failure-related reason for it (and the soldered-on ones were difficult to replace). But I wouldn't have run 8-10A through one of those little sockets. My board needs to be good for at least 20A, probably 25A just in case of crazy people. Automotive fuses make perfect sense for a 12V 25A load. Hopefully a 30A-rated board-mount socket won't be too hard to find.

[philipma1957]

And hopefully a socket that's actually rated for that kind of current, and blades on the fuse that are rated for it also, not like the AM Cube. The AM Blade had socketed fuses on some of 'em, which was handy since fuses blew on those more often than there was good hardware-failure-related reason for it (and the soldered-on ones were difficult to replace). But I wouldn't have run 8-10A through one of those little sockets. My board needs to be good for at least 20A, probably 25A just in case of crazy people. Automotive fuses make perfect sense for a 12V 25A load. Hopefully a 30A-rated board-mount socket won't be too hard to find.

Yeah fused with correct sockets and as a point of interest on the 15.5 volt psu / power as a max.

I need to check on some mean well psu's

I have some really good no fan hi eff ones in mind. -----------  sometimes they are cheap on ebay

12 volt

15 volt

18 volt

24 volt

Let me find PDFs on them.  the fan on the s-1 or the s-3 can point at the psu and help to cool the psu at zero power cost.


https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/hlg240h.pdf

  does up to 240 watts if you use the 24 volt one 92.5%  eff
  does up to 240 watts if you use the 20 volt one  91.5% eff

  does up to 225 watts if you use the 15 volt one  90.0% eff
  does  up   192 watts  if you use the 12 volt one 90.0%  eff ------ I  found this one for 35 usd on ebay


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/hlg320h.pdf

does up to 320 watts if you use the 24 volt one 94.0% eff
does up to 300 watts if you use the 20 volt one  93.5% eff

does up to 285 watts if you use the 15 volt one 92.5% eff
does up to 264 watts if you use the 12 volt one 91% eff

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top of the line model

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/hlg600h.pdf

does up to 600 watts if you use the 24 volt one 95.0% eff
does up to 560 watts if you use the 20 volt one 94.5% eff

does up to 540 watt if you use the 15volt one  93.5% eff
does up to 480 watts if you use the 12 volts one 92.0 % eff

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



looks to me if I run 1 blade with my model  psu  and provide it with 150 watts of its rated 192  

   I could have a very quiet office model doing about 1.5 th

I have a down clocked s-7 running at my friends office.

Maybe I could get some bitfury running in his spot and move the s-7 to the solar array


 reason being the solar array can run loud.

[hurricandave]

And hopefully a socket that's actually rated for that kind of current, and blades on the fuse that are rated for it also, not like the AM Cube. The AM Blade had socketed fuses on some of 'em, which was handy since fuses blew on those more often than there was good hardware-failure-related reason for it (and the soldered-on ones were difficult to replace). But I wouldn't have run 8-10A through one of those little sockets. My board needs to be good for at least 20A, probably 25A just in case of crazy people. Automotive fuses make perfect sense for a 12V 25A load. Hopefully a 30A-rated board-mount socket won't be too hard to find.

I work in an autoparts store and we have blade fuses that "glow" when they "Blow"...twice the price of a regular one but still neat feature - a finishing type touch.

[Amph]

less than 500w per tera is really a great result, i cna even begin to mine again bitcoin directly with that ratio

i hope this time they do not make huge miners with 10 tera and kill the casual mining with 3kw at home

[QuintLeo]

And hopefully a socket that's actually rated for that kind of current, and blades on the fuse that are rated for it also, not like the AM Cube. The AM Blade had socketed fuses on some of 'em, which was handy since fuses blew on those more often than there was good hardware-failure-related reason for it (and the soldered-on ones were difficult to replace). But I wouldn't have run 8-10A through one of those little sockets. My board needs to be good for at least 20A, probably 25A just in case of crazy people. Automotive fuses make perfect sense for a 12V 25A load. Hopefully a 30A-rated board-mount socket won't be too hard to find.

 Not sure I've ever seen an automotive blade-type fuse mount for a circuit board, but they DO make sense and should be cheap if they exist, and the fuses themselves are quite common in many ratings (specifically including 20 and 30 amp).


 The older cartridge-style fuses come in plenty of amperage and are reliable, but they do tend to be harder to find and more expensive nowadays.

[4ever4apple]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top of the line model

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/hlg600h.pdf

does up to 600 watts if you use the 24 volt one 95.0% eff
does up to 560 watts if you use the 20 volt one 94.5% eff

does up to 540 watt if you use the 15volt one  93.5% eff
does up to 480 watts if you use the 12 volts one 92.0 % eff

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
looks to me if I run 1 blade with my model  psu  and provide it with 150 watts of its rated 192  

   I could have a very quiet office model doing about 1.5 th

I have a down clocked s-7 running at my friends office.

Maybe I could get some bitfury running in his spot and move the s-7 to the solar array


 reason being the solar array can run loud.

Nice power supply, same 24Volts PS we have used for dimmable LED powering in our metalworks repairshop)
ready for upgrading my S5s with Bitfury hashboards, just let me know if you will need testing field))