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Author Topic: I'd like to ask for some help.  (Read 8089 times)
BR0KK
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January 22, 2013, 02:25:53 PM
 #121

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I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.
I didn't get paid back.

Did you pay him something?  Huh Roll Eyes


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Matthew N. Wright
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January 22, 2013, 02:27:22 PM
 #122

Well, since no one else seems to have posted up an address, I'll see how this goes.

1FQhNej4boCkMfDFZykBDf9YbiKWK4aVfK

My bet was 100BTC in the first day of the bet, later upped to 500BTC after you extended past the 10,000 limit.

I would settle for 1% of the total bet, or BTC5 to the address above. If that works, go ahead and I'll consider this all resolved.

I've messaged you, not sure if you have me on ignore or didn't get my message. Many people who have posted in this thread have already been messaged and not responded yet. It has prompted the creation of this thread.

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January 22, 2013, 02:45:57 PM
 #123

Well, since no one else seems to have posted up an address, I'll see how this goes.

1FQhNej4boCkMfDFZykBDf9YbiKWK4aVfK

My bet was 100BTC in the first day of the bet, later upped to 500BTC after you extended past the 10,000 limit.

I would settle for 1% of the total bet, or BTC5 to the address above. If that works, go ahead and I'll consider this all resolved.

I've messaged you, not sure if you have me on ignore or didn't get my message. Many people who have posted in this thread have already been messaged and not responded yet. It has prompted the creation of this thread.
Sure, I'll reply to the PM.
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January 22, 2013, 04:25:22 PM
 #124

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I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.
I didn't get paid back.

Did you pay him something?  Huh Roll Eyes


When people make bets, unless they use escrow, no party actually pays the other part before the bet has ended.

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January 22, 2013, 04:46:32 PM
 #125

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I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.
I didn't get paid back.

Did you pay him something?  Huh Roll Eyes


When people make bets, unless they use escrow, no party actually pays the other part before the bet has ended.

When you said "paid back," the "back" implies that you paid him something, and are waiting for him to return the money, aka pay you back. If you haven't paid him anything, and he hasn't honored his bet, neither of you are better or worse off than you were before.

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January 22, 2013, 04:46:56 PM
 #126

You need a 'Rehab' title here.  Cheesy

lol. I'm all for it. Theymos?

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TheKoziTwo
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January 22, 2013, 05:38:37 PM
 #127

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I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.
I didn't get paid back.

Did you pay him something?  Huh Roll Eyes


When people make bets, unless they use escrow, no party actually pays the other part before the bet has ended.

When you said "paid back," the "back" implies that you paid him something, and are waiting for him to return the money, aka pay you back. If you haven't paid him anything, and he hasn't honored his bet, neither of you are better or worse off than you were before.
No it doesn't. He has a loan to me and I am waiting for him to pay back the loan. I am worse off if he doesn't pay me too, opportunity costs.


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January 22, 2013, 05:47:07 PM
 #128

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I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.
I didn't get paid back.

Did you pay him something?  Huh Roll Eyes


When people make bets, unless they use escrow, no party actually pays the other part before the bet has ended.

When you said "paid back," the "back" implies that you paid him something, and are waiting for him to return the money, aka pay you back. If you haven't paid him anything, and he hasn't honored his bet, neither of you are better or worse off than you were before.
No it doesn't. He has a loan to me and I am waiting for him to pay back the loan. I am worse off if he doesn't pay me too, opportunity costs.

That sounds like a separate issue from the bet that got him labeled as a scammer...

Matthew N. Wright
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January 22, 2013, 07:25:34 PM
 #129

No it doesn't. He has a loan to me and I am waiting for him to pay back the loan. I am worse off if he doesn't pay me too, opportunity costs.

I do not remember ever borrowing any money from you. If you are considering the bet as being a loan, you'd be mistaken. That does not however change my mind about what the right thing to do in this situation is and I will continue to work towards it.

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January 22, 2013, 08:14:18 PM
 #130

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I do not remember ever borrowing any money from you.
When you gamble with money you don't have you are borrowing money. It's called gambling debt, and it can grow despite you never actually being handed over money, it's an obligation to pay, debt, or as I thought was an appropriate word "loan".  Isn't borrowing money and loaning money basically the same thing?

Matthew N. Wright
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January 22, 2013, 08:21:25 PM
 #131

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I do not remember ever borrowing any money from you.
When you gamble with money you don't have you are borrowing money. It's called gambling debt, and it can grow despite you never actually being handed over money, it's an obligation to pay, debt, or as I thought was an appropriate word "loan".  Isn't borrowing money and loaning money basically the same thing?

So if you get a parking ticket and don't pay it, does the court say that they gave you a loan for the ticket amount?

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January 22, 2013, 08:31:22 PM
 #132

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I do not remember ever borrowing any money from you.
When you gamble with money you don't have you are borrowing money. It's called gambling debt, and it can grow despite you never actually being handed over money, it's an obligation to pay, debt, or as I thought was an appropriate word "loan".  Isn't borrowing money and loaning money basically the same thing?

So if you get a parking ticket and don't pay it, does the court say that they gave you a loan for the ticket amount?
That's different, as it's not a voluntary choice. Borrowing money to gamble is a choice and requires someone willing to take the risk that you will pay back the loan. But as I said in PM, maybe loan is not the right word to use. Would it be correct to call it just "debt" maybe?

Matthew N. Wright
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January 22, 2013, 08:34:42 PM
 #133

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I do not remember ever borrowing any money from you.
When you gamble with money you don't have you are borrowing money. It's called gambling debt, and it can grow despite you never actually being handed over money, it's an obligation to pay, debt, or as I thought was an appropriate word "loan".  Isn't borrowing money and loaning money basically the same thing?

So if you get a parking ticket and don't pay it, does the court say that they gave you a loan for the ticket amount?
That's different, as it's not a voluntary choice. Borrowing money to gamble is a choice and requires someone willing to take the risk that you will pay back the loan. But as I said in PM, maybe loan is not the right word to use. Would it be correct to call it just "debt" maybe?

Yea, it's unactionable debt (i.e. debt that can't be claimed in a court of law), so it's basically a gentleman's agreement, but I wasn't acting like a gentleman. That's the best way to describe it.

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January 22, 2013, 08:39:15 PM
 #134

Deep breaths Matthew.  You seem to be losing your humility and becoming pedantic and argumentative already, which kind of undermines your stated purpose for starting the thread.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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January 22, 2013, 09:02:32 PM
 #135

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Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on Today at 08:21:25 PM
Quote from: TheKoziTwo on Today at 08:14:18 PM
Quote
I do not remember ever borrowing any money from you.
When you gamble with money you don't have you are borrowing money. It's called gambling debt, and it can grow despite you never actually being handed over money, it's an obligation to pay, debt, or as I thought was an appropriate word "loan".  Isn't borrowing money and loaning money basically the same thing?

So if you get a parking ticket and don't pay it, does the court say that they gave you a loan for the ticket amount?
That's different, as it's not a voluntary choice. Borrowing money to gamble is a choice and requires someone willing to take the risk that you will pay back the loan. But as I said in PM, maybe loan is not the right word to use. Would it be correct to call it just "debt" maybe?

So hes in "dept" to you now for what exactly?

Ohhhh there i spotted another "becoin"...

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January 23, 2013, 04:48:52 AM
 #136

let the betting begin
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1167
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January 23, 2013, 07:13:01 AM
 #137

Money is imaginary. Debt is imaginary. Start living in reality.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
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January 23, 2013, 08:57:13 AM
 #138

MNW,

You owe me 1500 BTC under the username bitbotbut on your list.

I posted a screenshot of your google docs spreadsheet from back in August.

Make me an offer on how to settle this debt.

And no, I'm not going to take a tiny portion of the debt as payment.

Be reasonable given that you would have held everyone else who made bets against you to their bet had you won.

I posted in the other thread and PMed you.

Awaiting your response.


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January 23, 2013, 01:43:23 PM
 #139

I'd like to ask some advice on how to make things right.

You don't know me, and I was never involved in any of this, but for what it's worth, here's some (blunt, but not malicious) advice:

1) After getting in touch with those you owe, take another vacation from the forums. Not that I expected you to grovel, but some of your statements, and the tone behind them, suggest you're still not fully realizing the gravity of all this (and no, I'm not talking about others incurring other financial losses based on your welshing of the bet.)

2) Please stop linking to anything with a donation address, regardless of the reason. Coming back into this situation claiming to have learned your lesson, only to then do something so inappropriate further reinforces #1.

3) Attempt to settle, but if anyone you owe insists you pay the full amount, then you need to accept that that is what you owe that person. Whether you choose to dismiss them or to spend years paying them back is entirely your choice, but to not accept that you owe what you owe would put a lie to your claim: "I want to personally take care of my situation with that person and do my best to make things right, no matter how long it takes."

4) I'd recommend you never, not once, request your scammer tag be removed, and that you do your best to not get involved with debating the merits of having it be removed.

5) Borrow what you can and start buying some bitcoins NOW. I'm sure you've seen the price movements, and can see the general trend. You already know there will be some (whether you owe them 1 BTC or 1000 BTC) who will insist you pay them in full. If you really are intending to make it right to any significant degree, such action would be real evidence of that, and will allow you to make payments more easily further down the road.

6) Finally, if you really are in this for the long haul, you might find you'll be more successful if you make whatever regular payments you agree to make on your debts, but aim to fully pay them off in order from smallest debt to largest. I didn't come up with the methodology, but it's incredibly sound financial advice.

However you choose to handle this, I sincerely hope it all works out in the end.

Good luck.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
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January 23, 2013, 10:04:14 PM
 #140

If the above is true, for I believe that's why the tag was implemented in the first place, then how is that different than promising shipment on a certain date, but was pushed back a couple three times? Before I continue, please understand that this is no way a diss toward BFL, let alone suggesting they, too, deserve a scammer tag, which is nonsense. But the crux of the matter is that many a people pre-ordered product with the understanding that revenue will be generated by a certain date or, at the very least, a modest rescheduled one. If my calculations are correct, not one satoshi of the over a million dollars worth of bitcoins that were expected to be mined to date has yet to be produced.
Well, for a start no-one's been able to prove that BFL actually lied when they said they were going to ship on that date, whereas Matthew very helpfully demonstrated in theatrical fashion that he never actually intended to do what he promised, having carefully built up anticipation for his announcement to make sure as many people as possible were watching. Also, Matthew actually advertised his bet as a way for people to "hedge their Pirate exposure". Finally, Matthew made a point of insisting that anyone who didn't pay up would get a scammer tag. Basically, he did everything he possibly could to make sure he got tagged as a scammer.

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